Marvel Comics: Possible Yggdrasil Upgrade - Part 4

[Overlord775]

@Clint

That doesn't matter, the important thing is that Odin is thereafter and knows about Eternity as a result

That's Eighth multiverse Eternity, TWSAIS were shown only during the Seventh

Them feeding on stories isn't in any way a reason to think they are weaker, Galactus needs to feed on planets while being a 2-C to 2-A

 

[Antvasima]

Thet are explicitly stated to be to the Asgardians as the Asgardians are to mortals though. At best that would rate them as Low 1-C, not remotely such a ridiculously high tier as 1-A.

 

[Tony_Stark69]

Thet are explicitly stated to be to the Asgardians as the Asgardians are to mortals though. At best that would rate them as Low 1-C, not remotely such a ridiculously high tier as 1-A.

Odin alone is Low 2-C, Mortals (Humans) are 10-B to 10-A.

 

[Tony_Stark69]

That's, of course, a reference to them being the Gods of the Gods.

 

[Antvasima]

Odin is 2-C. A Low 1-C character is as powerful compared to him as he is to a regular human.

And that is being generous. Most Asgardians are enormously less powerful than Odin.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Most Asgardians are enormously less powerful than Base Thor. Captain America can beat up some fodder Asgardians. But assuming the statement refers to the Gods, yeah.

 

[Overlord775]

Hey, just realize something

We scale Odinforce Thor to Classic Strange, thus he should be 2-A, possibly Low 1-C

Sooooooooo TWSAIS and Rune King Thor should upscale and be 2-A, Possibly Low 1-C

 

[Antvasima]

I think that "At least Multiverse level+, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (It has been explicitly stated that TWSAIS are as powerful to the Asgardians as the are to mortals, but it is unknown if this means regular Asgardians or Odi" works fine as a justification.

 

[Overlord775]

wouldn't it be better to scale them to Odinforce Thor since he's stronger than Odin ?

also, are normal Asgardians even considered gods ?

 

[Antvasima]

Present day Odinforce Thor isn't that much stronger than Odin. They still use the same power source. All of the Aesir are considered as gods, although usually minor ones.

 

[Overlord775]

that would make Odin 2-A, possibly Low 1-C tho, since Odinforce Thor is scaled to Classic Strange

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that regular Odinforce Thor is scaled from Strange, and it would completely mess up the logic of our scaling chain to rate him that high. (Also Doctor Strange (Classic) isn't rated that high.)

Rune King Thor can be scaled from TWSAIS though, and I do not personally mind an "At least 2-A, possible Low 1-C" rating for them.

 

[Overlord775]

just look at the profile: Thor

"Low Multiverse level (Doctor Strange had to channel the power of the Council Elite of all pantheons on Earth to temporarily disable the Odinforce after Thor had held it for only 17 years, and in one future Thor will hold the power for even longer than Odi, indicating that he can be even more powerful. Said Future King Thor was able to battle Galactus, albeit still had to rely on All-Black the Necrosword to defeat him)"

With the Doctor Strange linked being Classic Strange

also yes, RKT would scale since he's stronger than them

 

[Antvasima]

Strange himself is not rated that high, just some of his equipment, and this was scaling from the other skyfathers, not Strange. Western superhero comics are also not remotely consistent in terms of power levels. It is probably best if we stop treating them as such.

 

[Luck100]

Everyone is a part of Eternity dude.
I never said he knows nothing, I said he doesn't fully comprehend it.

Mikaboshi was destroying (or gonna destroy) the multiverse, not full of Multi Eternity (which encompasses more than just the multiverse.

And funny how no one is going to answer why being outide means you can destroy the multiverse.

Did you read the thread ?

Especially the part that Obvilion itself confirms that chaos king almost destroyed the whole multiverse. The divine dimensions where the creation was give birth was absorved by him , some of these dimensions are Otherworld (Celtic gods home and where Roma monitore all omniverse) and Othervoid (dimension where the ennead reside and it's don't have time and space).

Specially somegods of ennead who came before creation and represent the absence of meaning and embodiment of nothing. And they aren't the only ones with that citation.

How the gods don't know about eternity if some of them are older than it ?

 

[Overlord775]

@Ant

No, Strange's spells are also rated as that

"4-B. At least 3-A, up to 2-A, possibly Low 1-C with Artifacts and Spells "

It says he HAD TO channel the powers of the godheads, which means that his normal arsenal couldn't have stopped Thor

"Western superhero comics are also not remotely consistent in terms of power levels. It is probably best if we stop treating them as such. "

Make a thread about it then, because as of now we theat them as such and so we shouldn't do a double standard by not tthreating Thor/Odin the same

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

In case anyone was wondering where Kepekley is, this is a very important update.

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

Thank you. I commented.

@Overlord

If you read Doctor Strange's profile, particularly the attack potency section, you will see that his standard unprepared tier was 4-B, but that he can reach to at least 2-A by channeling powerful equipment and cosmic or mystical entities. He was as powerful as the entities that he channeled allowed him to be, which fits here as well. PrinceOfTheMorning was our most trusted Marvel expert, and he wrote our scaling definitions.

 

[Overlord775]

He can channel the power of those entities and items on command tho, like even his iconic crimson bands of Cyttorath should be in that tier

also, mind posting those scaling definitions here ?

 

[Antvasima]

He was not always that powerful, no. He usually channelled only a tiny amount of their power, not the entire entities. It always depended on how much power the entities in question thought that he should be afforded at the moment. The Hulk broke the bands once for example.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, I mean that POTM wrote our current coherent scaling hierarchy, with lots of researched proof and definitions placed in the profiles. I definitely do not want to mess it all up and throw our scaling system into chaos.

 

[Overlord775]

why wouldn't he use the full power against a threat of such level ?

also just link me where this fantomatical scaling chain actually is, post me the liink to the thread/blog it was created in

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, let's stop derailing please. Are the rest of you fine with if we upgrade RKT to "At least 2-A, possible Low 1-C" based on the reasoning that I posted earlier?

 

[Luck100]

No. I stand with Alonik.

Yggdrasil coming from a time before time, with her seed being the gearth of the supreme god of a preview existence and the tree reaching higher realms is more than enough to be higher than 1-C. Even some minor gods have better feats than 1-C and they scale with Odin.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, that is not going to pass. My apologies.

Either we go with the rational, non-speculative, approach, or we continue to waste everyone's time. I would personally much prefer to get done with this.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

At this point, 2-A possibly Low 1-C is our best bet

 

[Luck100]

There are a lot of 1-B and 1-A beings in others verses in the wikia with less evidence and cosistancy than Yggdrasil upgrade why only this upgrade is barred while others can pass ?

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

There are a lot of 1-B and 1-A beings in others verses in the wikia with less evidence and cosistancy than Yggdrasil upgrade why only this upgrade is barred while others can pass ?

They also lack major things that Marvel has, notably, inconsistency.

 

[Antvasima]

Because it doesn't make any coherent logical sense, and is a very extreme tier that has not been demonstrated at all, and is solely based on walls of text of speculation.

 

[Luck100]

There are a lot of 1-B and 1-A beings in others verses in the wikia with less evidence and cosistancy than Yggdrasil upgrade why only this upgrade is barred while others can pass ?

They also lack major things that Marvel has, notably, inconsistency.

DC dont lack of inconsistency actually DC have pass Marvel by miles in this matter. But they have more biased "important" members so ...

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Marvel is more popular than DC, what aee you talking about.

I get if this was an eastern verse like Shinza Banshou which is known for the wiki to be biased towards it, but DC is a verse that is under a decent deal of scrutiny

 

[Antvasima]

Marvel may be the most inconsistent franchise in all of fiction, and as such it requires coherent explicit evidence for its tiering, especially for extremely high tiers. We currently have a rather logical and coherent system for it thanks to the efforts of PrinceOfTheMorning and a few other extremely knowledgeable members. I definitely do not want us to mess things up just because he is missing.

Anyway, there is no good evidence for higher tiers than what we give Marvel currently, and we still rate Chaos War Hercules as Low 1-A based on an explicit feat, so please drop the accusations of deliberate bias. That is not what this is about. We just want the profiles to be reliable, not ridiculously exaggerated.

 

[Luck100]

Marvel is more popular than DC, what aee you talking about.
I get if this was an eastern verse like Shinza Banshou which is known for the wiki to be biased towards it, but DC is a verse that is under a decent deal of scrutiny

Very security indeed specially when they connect Morrison cosmology to Vertigo universe and Snyder new one.

I don't know why be blind to dozens or hundreds of citations in Marvel cosmology but upgrade all other franchises with one citation ...

I have post arguments above that would be 1-A in most verses (and in Marvel too) but is ignored like all other posts after the second thread and third ...

 

[Tony_Stark69]

Odin is 2-C. A Low 1-C character is as powerful compared to him as he is to a regular human.
And that is being generous. Most Asgardians are enormously less powerful than Odin.

I don't think so, Old King Thor, who is 2-C, was almost on par with Phoenix Wolverine, who should be Low 1-C.

I believe a human can't fight the likes of Odin like Old KT did against PF Wolverine.

 

[Driger-God]

Marvel is really more popular than Dc, but 90% of Marvel Fans don't know 5% of Marvel Universe, or only know the basic.

Dc has an system in many forms more simple, you have a Multiverse Map.
On Marvel you need read many and many comics to understand as realms scale.

Is true that Marvel isn't 100% consistent in all time, but is exaggerated stay saying that every issue is inconsistent.

New Gods can scale to 2-A, even when Superman and others beings can fight with them. But Gods(Marvel) can't scale with beings that comics said that them scale, like Dormammu(I'm saying about Odin only in this case), using the point of "Nine Realms" to limit Gods to Low 2-C.
Why Dc Multiverse Map isn't only 2-C when is showed only 52 universe? Using the same point of number of "universes" that an system have to both.
"But in comics exist more universes." Okay, but in Multiverse Map in that New Gods exist above are 52 universes only. And this is the same case that to Gods and Yggdrasil.
Add only one thing: Every gods are part of higher plane of existence.

You have the same case: Partial description about an small number of universes(10 and 52), but in one, the 10 "universes" limited every scale and higher feat, and in other, the 52 universes scale everyone to higher scale than 52 universes even without feats in a higher scale.

 

[Tony_Stark69]

The Writer implied that Chaos King absorbed the entire Multiverse, except a few parts of Earth, by the end of Chaos War.

 

[Tony_Stark69]

Also, the realms being created from North and South doesn't contradict 1-A Ginnungagap, because it was a process of creation. Ice came from X part (North) and Fire came from Y part (South). Like this way and that way.

It's a way to show that those realms (fire and ice) are opposite to each other. It was also stated in the same scan that it was the endless abyss.

I have an example, LT said that the beginning of the Multiverse happened in a time when time was not. But that doesn't contradict anything.

Both instances show that things (like Time and North/South) were present before/during the process, but there usage was just a way to show how creation came into existence.

That's what I think.

 

[Luck100]

There are more.

The celestial Axis exist in different forms for all pantheons of gods and it's exist in all their realms. For the nordic gods is Yggdrasil but for greeks in the Axis mundi and go on ... if all gods have a representation of the celestial axis in their realms it's suggest that Yggdrasil have much more than ten worlds and spans for all realms of gods and even hell lords such Hela and Pluto (Anti tree).

There realms beyond space and time like the Othervoid (Egypt gods).

There are realms of Celtic gods as the otherworlds where all realities inside and Asgard that is beyond space and time like Olympus is.

 

[KLOL506]

Marvel is hella more inconsistent than DC is but to say it's inconsistent in every single issue is just... exaggeration at best, like Driger said.

That being the case, I am likely not the best guy to give advice on Tier 1-related revision threads, period. Maybe try Ultima?

 

[Antvasima]

The Phoenix Force is insanely inconsistent from story to story, and that was an alternative future version of Thor. The same goes for Odin in relation to Dormammu. We have to go by what has been consistent power levels for each of them, based on their own feats. Our current tiering hierarchy was structured by PrinceOfTheMorning, who is our most knowledgeable mostly unbiased member when it comes to Marvel.