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4-A, 3-C at peak would make sense
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Marvel Comics Herald Tiers Upgrade to 3-C
- Thread starter Kulf_Boba
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This is effectively hand waving. I think the fact that it's been reinforced to the reader several times that Thor has the strength to shake a galaxy proves that this isn't simply "poetic"
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Yes, not only the galaxy but the universe.
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Here's another feat that backs up that Thor can shake the Universe.
- In the comic Thor #160 Tana Nile mentions that Galactus is a great danger to the galaxies and if left unchecked could cause the collapse of the universe.
- Then in Thor #161 the narrator mentions that during the fight between Ego and Galactus the universe totters.
- As Thor prepares to confront Galactus and Ego, the Recorder says "Observation!
The moment is nigh! Now let a universe tremble!" - Then when Thor attacks Galactus by throwing Mjolnir at him, the narrator states that the heavens seem to shudder from the awesome impact. After the impact, Galactus states that it is the first time in a millennium that he feels pain.
- As Thor prepares to confront Galactus and Ego, the Recorder says "Observation!
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Isn't Galactus' whole deal that he will eventually eat everything and birth the next universe.
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Yes, but his power varies heavily. at his weakest, he should easily upscale massively from herald tier characters. at his strongest, well... way higher than where we put him rn.
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Most of the time 4-A
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Shaking a universe as large as ours is 4-A, it's where most of the evidence for a 4-A rating is coming from here.
But now that I think about it if those statements that put the marvel universe at a Trillion Light Years are true that'd probably get the results up to 3-C instead.
Oliver_de_jesus
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The thing about using the Universe of a trillion years is that it happens in a totally different Era of Comics, it will be better to use the standard Universe
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Except we have too many infinite statements, so why use 93 bil?
Hasty12345
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best to post the scans
Oliver_de_jesus
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that means that the heralds would be high 3-A, I'm trying not to make all those feats outlier
"era" in the sense that a difference of almost 20 years, cosmology was altered in various ways
Hasty12345
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I don't think that's how it works though.
If the Universe is canonically infinite in size, then the feats should be treated as such.
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...I mean that's bias lol
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This scan shows Vnn, a holder of the Starbrand, saying that he could sense things a trillion lightyears away. This makes the Marvel Universe at bare minimum a trillion light years in radius. And this issue came out in November of 2019, so really recently.
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But using 93 is also an outlier? Its outliers either way at the end of the day?
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If we're really getting this pedantic about "muh comic eras" the Jane Foster feat still came out in 2017, so.
Although looking at it Kulf already accounted for the Trillion Light Year sized universe as a high end and got 24 ExaFoe which is about...... half of baseline 3-C (I think that's how that works)? So either way it's 4-A just higher into it which is pretty kewl.
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That is correct.
Oliver_de_jesus
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shrug their shoulders
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Yeah but If the universe's statement have contradictions and other things like that they don't tend to used.
Hasty12345
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well whatever the closest thing to a consistent canon statement that Marvel has should be used, as assuming the universe is standard 3-A when there's contradicting evidence is not great.
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The 93 billion statement is what's consistently used in this wiki as far I know and I asked firestorm a similar case ago to use the 60 trillion light years in half a second DC big bang to do a calc on hal jordan but he said it doesn't work that way except its the same writer who wrote the book.
And this wiki tends to take infinite statements hyperbolic most of the time.
And this wiki tends to take infinite statements hyperbolic most of the time.
Hasty12345
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I don't think it makes sense to evaluate each feat according to different standards because the writer is different in cases like this.
It's not a case between 5D and 1-A where different authors have established their own entirely in-cohesive cosmology.
trillion light-years and 93 billion light-years (which is based off real life assumptions not in-verse statements) shouldn't be an issue.
If I'm understanding what you're saying correctly.
It's not a case between 5D and 1-A where different authors have established their own entirely in-cohesive cosmology.
trillion light-years and 93 billion light-years (which is based off real life assumptions not in-verse statements) shouldn't be an issue.
If I'm understanding what you're saying correctly.
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Actually that's what the wiki's doing to DC and marvel scaling them via different authors.
We scale them not only via higher dimensions but even how powerful they are portrayed or shown by certain writers as some wank them and others lowball.
.it's just a general something I don't know how to put it.
We scale them not only via higher dimensions but even how powerful they are portrayed or shown by certain writers as some wank them and others lowball.
.it's just a general something I don't know how to put it.
Hasty12345
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Yeah but the difference between cosmology between authors in DC is absurd.
assuming the universe in Marvel to be 93 billion LY as opposed to stated whatever trillion for the sake of 4-A being more consistent than 3-C or whatever it would calc to is simply bias. We don’t arbitrarily decide what the Marcel cosmology is to make characters certain tiers.
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The results would still be 4-A for the record, it'd just be at a higher value.
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Hasty12345
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If we’re going to tier feats on these levels of discrepancies (difference between assumed vs stated finite sizes for the universe) then we may as well not scale comics at all, as every character would need a key every 10 issues
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I'm against that sort of indexing exactly for this reason, but you'd also end up creating far more problems than you'd ever hope to fix as a result. For instance, what reason would we have to disregard far higher tiers for Spiderman if we can simply hand wave it away as being a different writers interpretation and give him a separate key to compensate?
Hasty12345
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Taking this logic to its furthest extent would result in comics inherently being unscalable.
So I’m also against taking the practice of “writer segregation” to this extent as well.
The most cosmologically consistent size for the universe given in-verse statement regardless of authors should be used. This is not the difference the 1 author thinking the speed force is 1-A compared to another that thinks the speed force is low 1-C - which is very clearly a hard contradiction.
surely there are characters more reliable than others when it comes to the size of a single marvel universe that can be considered the most consistent?
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The scan with the Trillion Light Year Statement comes from a character that was wielding the Starbrand at the time who states on panel that he can literally "feel" the activities of entire planets "a trillion light-years away" i.e. this is being stated by someone with cosmic awareness that can actually verify how large the universe is with their own senses.
He doesn't quite make it clear if he's referring to the entire circumference of the universe or just a smaller portion of its whole, but at the very least that's a pretty clear indication of the universe's minimum size from a very reliable source as far as I'm concerned.
Hasty12345
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It does sound more like a minimum of anything
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It's only in respect to Abstract level and above, since their fundamentals in scaling change. Not relevant to other tiers
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Earth is the center of the universe in Marvel? this would make a trillion light years the possible radius of the universe.
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Why is DC being brought up?
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