• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Marvel Comics - Cosmology Upgrade

Harel

4
0
Im repost this thread cuz before i didnt use English.


[marvel Cosmology upgrade]



Asgard, which is one of the infinitesimally small dimensions in the universe, is outside of a group of infinite dimensions that exist in an infinite number of mathematical dimensions, which easily makes it extraordinary. If one infinitesimal plane is outversal, imagine the infinite number of outversal dimensions in the Marvel universe. A universe in Marvel is easily Extraversal.



The Dark Dimension is one of the Dimensions in the universe, and has an infinite number of dimensions within it. The dimensions within the Dark Dimension were enormous, each one endlessly boundless. This alone makes the Dark Dimension multiversal in size. The Dark Dimension is also beyond the concept of space and time, which makes it a level of Complex Multiverse in size.



An atom in Marvel is an endless universe itself. It has its own solar system, life forms, and galaxies, which the Silver Surfer revealed when he was inside the atom exploring it. This will make the humans in Marvel multiversal and the planets in Marvel multiversal in other fiction and poetry. Yup, the Marvel universe is definitely extraversal in size.



One dimension in the Marvel Universe is huge. A single dimension does not have a single timeline, instead it has an infinite number of timelines. Every strand, every timeline and every choice in a dimension grows an infinite new timeline, just like a tree with an infinite number of branches and an infinite new branch growing from a tree every second




Also, the universe at Marvel itself is a platonic concept, beyond concepts like space, time, reality and dimensions with each being in a universe of platonic beings as well, which was confirmed in an interview. And this platonic universe exists in infinite dimensions, so even the weakest, saddest creatures in Marvel Comics easily become outside characters in other fiction. And a planet in Marvel is outversal, because it's platonic.

https://imgur.com/gallery/yySJR0t

The embodiment of the Marvel universe is Eternity, and he is declared infinite. So saying 'duh, Immortality has a limit, so magic is finite' bullshit won't work. Then there is the infinite eternity which makes up one Multi-Eternity, which makes the multiuniverse infinite. Also, Immortality is transfinite, which means it is greater than infinity, which is easy to extraversal. And there is infinite multi-eternity because the whole reality which is the Omniverse is made up of infinite multiverses. The entirety of reality exists in an infinite number of planes, each field far superior to the other.

https://imgur.com/gallery/n8VvgRr

Because the Omniverse is one reality, we all understand that magic is extraversal. But, not only that, but there is consistently stated to be an infinite number of these realities in multiple scans, like when Thanos chatted with TOAA and when Utau told him about the multiverse.

SUMMARY

The lower part of the human domain is the Transfinite multiverse. Each universe contains an infinite number of all possible timelines, infinite atoms that do the same thing. Going beyond this layer means going beyond concepts like space, time, distance, etc. The higher layers are much more powerful than the lower ones seeing it as a mere fiction.

The intersection contains infinite dimensions. Now this infinite dimension is plenty for the one multiverse that Superflow holds. Superflow cardinally goes beyond that. There is a Superflow for each multiverse and there is a number of Transfinites. Superflow is a space of ideas.

Then you have the Macroverse, Microverse, Metaverse, Overspace, Underspace, and about 30 other realms.

Each of these realms is quantum-based, or mystical-based, each of which is largely an inaccessible realm. Also, for each of these, contains an infinite stack of planes of existence, each of which has an aleph gap, and in total there is a TRANSFINIT layer and a transcendent plane of existence.

In 1 Dimension Marvel has an infinite Universe which means 2A+ is high from countless, And Marvel has an infinite multiverse which makes it Multi-Extra which means in 1 Multiverse 2A+, And it stacks up continuously to be infinite / aleph which if the aleph combined will become transfinite,In 1 Marvel Multiverse will become Aleph 1 ( one ) cardinald number and Infinite^Infinite and it will continue to accumulate.

Conventionally, the smallest infinite ordinal number is denoted by , which is the smallest upper bound

the set of all square numbers, the set of all cubic numbers, the set of all numbers to the fourth power,
the set of all perfect powers, the set of all prime powers,
the set of all even numbers, the set of all odd numbers,
the set of all prime numbers, the set of all composite numbers,
the set of all integers,
the set of all rational numbers,
the set of all algebraic numbers,
the set of all computable numbers,
the set of all definite numbers,
the set of all binary strings of finite length, and
the set of all finite subsets of all sets that can be counted as infinity.

And from this all Marvel comics can make it as Outverse / High Outverse cosmology

1 Dimension which has an infinite multiverse, And in Marvel it has an infinite dimension as explained above
 
Aaaaaant, we had this dance so ooooooooften now.

I know so little about any forms of western comic books. Dont ping me into Marvel or DC
 
I'm not interested in evaluating Marvel cosmology.
 
The Scans
Harel said:
[marvel Cosmology upgrade]


Incredible Hulk Vol 1 #312
Click to expand...





Harel said:
Asgard, which is one of the infinitesimally small dimensions in the universe, is outside of a group of infinite dimensions that exist in an infinite number of mathematical dimensions, which easily makes it extraordinary. If one infinitesimal plane is outversal, imagine the infinite number of outversal dimensions in the Marvel universe. A universe in Marvel is easily Extraversal. Thor Vol 1 #418
Click to expand...



Harel said:
The Dark Dimension is one of the Dimensions in the universe, and has an infinite number of dimensions within it. The dimensions within the Dark Dimension were enormous, each one endlessly boundless. This alone makes the Dark Dimension multiversal in size. The Dark Dimension is also beyond the concept of space and time, which makes it a level of Complex Multiverse in size. Strange Tales Vo1 #133
Click to expand...



Harel said:
An atom in Marvel is an endless universe itself. It has its own solar system, life forms, and galaxies, which the Silver Surfer revealed when he was inside the atom exploring it. This will make the humans in Marvel multiversal and the planets in Marvel multiversal in other fiction and poetry. Yup, the Marvel universe is definitely extraversal in size. Fantastic Four Vo1 #75
Click to expand...



Harel said:
One dimension in the Marvel Universe is huge. A single dimension does not have a single timeline, instead it has an infinite number of timelines. Every strand, every timeline and every choice in a dimension grows an infinite new timeline, just like a tree with an infinite number of branches and an infinite new branch growing from a tree every second. Thor Vo1 #440
Click to expand...


Harel said:
Also, the universe at Marvel itself is a platonic concept, beyond concepts like space, time, reality and dimensions with each being in a universe of platonic beings as well, which was confirmed in an interview. And this platonic universe exists in infinite dimensions, so even the weakest, saddest creatures in Marvel Comics easily become outside characters in other fiction. And a planet in Marvel is outversal, because it's platonic. Ultimates Vol 2 #10, Marvel Now! Point One
Click to expand...


Harel said:
The embodiment of the Marvel universe is Eternity, and he is declared infinite. So saying 'duh, Immortality has a limit, so magic is finite' bullshit won't work. Then there is the infinite eternity which makes up one Multi-Eternity, which makes the multiuniverse infinite. Also, Immortality is transfinite, which means it is greater than infinity, which is easy to extraversal. And there is infinite multi-eternity because the whole reality which is the Omniverse is made up of infinite multiverses. The entirety of reality exists in an infinite number of planes, each field far superior to the other.

Fantastic Four 1998 Annual 2001, Quasar #37, Avataars: Covenant of the Shield #1, What If Vol 2 035, Thanos: The Infinity Finale​

Click to expand...
 
I'm just going to compile what the OP is stating in his scans so everyone else can judge due to how confusing this is to read;

The Multiverse is Many-Layered and has a seemingly endless number of dimensions, with places like Asgard, the Dark Dimension, and Mafisto's Realm being a part of the Myriad of Planes that exist. The other scan states that to reach the Isles of Avalon one needs to cross Infinite Dimensional Gulfs. Dormammu once again states that the dimensions of infinity are endless and the Dark Dimension itself exists in a void of time that is an amalgamation of countless other dimensions that Dormammu devoured.

While Silver Surfer was in an Alien Universe where each molecule and every bit of matter may contain an endless cosmos, he stated that there will always be worlds within worlds. Furthermore, time is stated to not be but a single line, but a line with a multitude of branches extending out creating an endless growth of branches. Because there are an infinite number of variations, anything is possible including alternate worlds where humans aren't the dominant life forms.

Moving on apparently purely platonic places exist, like when Miss America traveled to the platonic perfect ideal of New York (Stated in an Interview).

And lastly the bread and butter I'm assuming of the OP's argument. Eternity himself ensures that a single Universe is Boundless whereas Multi-Eternity guarantees the Multiverse is Boundless, and Eternity himself is so transfinite that there are numerous manifestations of him with dimensions containing reflections of every manifestation he has ever had. On top of that the Omniverse is composed of endless proliferating Multiverses and constituents, and it is the informational space called the Superflow that separates them. Every universe within the Superflow links to and forms a network of dimensions, subdimensions, and planes that are surrounded by inaccessible realms.

It is stated that beings like Eternity, The Living Tribunal, Tue Watcher & Infinity are described to manage transfinite levels of existence. The Watcher goes on to state that within every quantum moment a single universe creates infinite alternate realities, and each of them gives burse to their own infinities, ad Infinitum. Thanos goes to speak about this while talking to the OAA that just touching his nose created infinite realities.
 
First_Witch said:
Aaaaaant, we had this dance so ooooooooften now.

I know so little about any forms of western comic books. Dont ping me into Marvel or DC
Click to expand...
Okay. Sorry about that. You are quite knowledgeable about higher tiers, which is why I asked you.
 
Also, just a note that the omniverse was never supposed to be composed of Multi-Eternity/Marvel Comics alone, only the local multiverse, and ditto for the Living Tribunal's jurisdiction. The omniverse is supposed to be all of fiction combined, at the very least.
 
Last edited:
I already have a huge cosmological point, but nobody answered my drafts of the revision in the group created here, so for me is w/e since none of this will be considered by the promise of revisions 🤷‍♂️
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
I'm just going to compile what the OP is stating in his scans so everyone else can judge due to how confusing this is to read;

The Multiverse is Many-Layered and has a seemingly endless number of dimensions, with places like Asgard, the Dark Dimension, and Mafisto's Realm being a part of the Myriad of Planes that exist. The other scan states that to reach the Isles of Avalon one needs to cross Infinite Dimensional Gulfs. Dormammu once again states that the dimensions of infinity are endless and the Dark Dimension itself exists in a void of time that is an amalgamation of countless other dimensions that Dormammu devoured.
Click to expand...
It is not actually Avalon, but Asgard, the peeps from Avalon had to cross infinite dimensions to get to Asgard which was anchored above the Negative Zone.
 
Alonik said:
Marvel Cosmology Sandbox
Click to expand...
Thank you, but if the Negative Zone is truly intended to be a High 1-B structure, how come that even its most powerful inhabitants, such as Annihilus and Blastaar are considerably less powerful than many earthly superheroes?

Also, in Jonathan Hickman's version of the cosmology, the entire multiverse could be completely destroyed simply by bumping all of the 4-dimensional universes into each other.

Wouldn't it be better to use different cosmologies for different editorial eras, such as a Lee/Kirby era, a Jim Shooter era, a Tom DeFalco era, and a Joe Quesada era?
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you, but if the Negative Zone is truly intended to be a High 1-B structure, how come that even its most powerful inhabitants, such as Annihilus and Blastaar are considerably less powerful than many earthly superheroes?

Also, in Jonathan Hickman's version of the cosmology, the entire multiverse could be completely destroyed simply by bumping all of the 4-dimensional universes into each other.

Wouldn't it be better to use different cosmologies for different editorial eras, such as a Lee/Kirby era, a Jim Shooter era, a Tom DeFalco era, and a Joe Quesada era?
Click to expand...
Residing in a High 1B realm doesn't make you High 1B.
 
It wouldn't make any sense if all of the beings that were actually born or created within an infinite-dimensional reality, as opposed to just visiting there, are just three-dimensional, so it seems like a feature that has not been officially incorporated into Marvel's canon by either their editorial department or other writers in a remotely coherent and consistent manner.
 
Harel said:
Im repost this thread cuz before i didnt use English.


[marvel Cosmology upgrade]



Asgard, which is one of the infinitesimally small dimensions in the universe, is outside of a group of infinite dimensions that exist in an infinite number of mathematical dimensions, which easily makes it extraordinary. If one infinitesimal plane is outversal, imagine the infinite number of outversal dimensions in the Marvel universe. A universe in Marvel is easily Extraversal.



The Dark Dimension is one of the Dimensions in the universe, and has an infinite number of dimensions within it. The dimensions within the Dark Dimension were enormous, each one endlessly boundless. This alone makes the Dark Dimension multiversal in size. The Dark Dimension is also beyond the concept of space and time, which makes it a level of Complex Multiverse in size.



An atom in Marvel is an endless universe itself. It has its own solar system, life forms, and galaxies, which the Silver Surfer revealed when he was inside the atom exploring it. This will make the humans in Marvel multiversal and the planets in Marvel multiversal in other fiction and poetry. Yup, the Marvel universe is definitely extraversal in size.



One dimension in the Marvel Universe is huge. A single dimension does not have a single timeline, instead it has an infinite number of timelines. Every strand, every timeline and every choice in a dimension grows an infinite new timeline, just like a tree with an infinite number of branches and an infinite new branch growing from a tree every second




Also, the universe at Marvel itself is a platonic concept, beyond concepts like space, time, reality and dimensions with each being in a universe of platonic beings as well, which was confirmed in an interview. And this platonic universe exists in infinite dimensions, so even the weakest, saddest creatures in Marvel Comics easily become outside characters in other fiction. And a planet in Marvel is outversal, because it's platonic.

https://imgur.com/gallery/yySJR0t

The embodiment of the Marvel universe is Eternity, and he is declared infinite. So saying 'duh, Immortality has a limit, so magic is finite' bullshit won't work. Then there is the infinite eternity which makes up one Multi-Eternity, which makes the multiuniverse infinite. Also, Immortality is transfinite, which means it is greater than infinity, which is easy to extraversal. And there is infinite multi-eternity because the whole reality which is the Omniverse is made up of infinite multiverses. The entirety of reality exists in an infinite number of planes, each field far superior to the other.

https://imgur.com/gallery/n8VvgRr

Because the Omniverse is one reality, we all understand that magic is extraversal. But, not only that, but there is consistently stated to be an infinite number of these realities in multiple scans, like when Thanos chatted with TOAA and when Utau told him about the multiverse.

SUMMARY

The lower part of the human domain is the Transfinite multiverse. Each universe contains an infinite number of all possible timelines, infinite atoms that do the same thing. Going beyond this layer means going beyond concepts like space, time, distance, etc. The higher layers are much more powerful than the lower ones seeing it as a mere fiction.

The intersection contains infinite dimensions. Now this infinite dimension is plenty for the one multiverse that Superflow holds. Superflow cardinally goes beyond that. There is a Superflow for each multiverse and there is a number of Transfinites. Superflow is a space of ideas.

Then you have the Macroverse, Microverse, Metaverse, Overspace, Underspace, and about 30 other realms.

Each of these realms is quantum-based, or mystical-based, each of which is largely an inaccessible realm. Also, for each of these, contains an infinite stack of planes of existence, each of which has an aleph gap, and in total there is a TRANSFINIT layer and a transcendent plane of existence.

In 1 Dimension Marvel has an infinite Universe which means 2A+ is high from countless, And Marvel has an infinite multiverse which makes it Multi-Extra which means in 1 Multiverse 2A+, And it stacks up continuously to be infinite / aleph which if the aleph combined will become transfinite,In 1 Marvel Multiverse will become Aleph 1 ( one ) cardinald number and Infinite^Infinite and it will continue to accumulate.

Conventionally, the smallest infinite ordinal number is denoted by , which is the smallest upper bound

the set of all square numbers, the set of all cubic numbers, the set of all numbers to the fourth power,
the set of all perfect powers, the set of all prime powers,
the set of all even numbers, the set of all odd numbers,
the set of all prime numbers, the set of all composite numbers,
the set of all integers,
the set of all rational numbers,
the set of all algebraic numbers,
the set of all computable numbers,
the set of all definite numbers,
the set of all binary strings of finite length, and
the set of all finite subsets of all sets that can be counted as infinity.

And from this all Marvel comics can make it as Outverse / High Outverse cosmology

1 Dimension which has an infinite multiverse, And in Marvel it has an infinite dimension as explained above
Click to expand...

so basically if this crt is accepted and I think it will and I also support it because the arguments are simple but solid and well structured, basically all marvel characters gained 1 level more than they already are, like the current 1A returning to 1A and why going back to tier 0 maybe?
 
That seems very unlikely based on this thread alone.
 
not in this specific topic of course, but if it is accepted, the verse can go back to being very powerful, the only thing I disagree with is the platonic concepts, for me this is nothing more than high-level conceptual manipulation and that doesn't give any tier regardless of be true or false concepts, because if not several "weak" verses that I've seen use this to present entities that represent an idea in general and are free of the other concepts would have to be updated as well and obviously this is out of the question
 
Eseseso said:
This is like the 5th thread on marvel cosmology in the past week.
Click to expand...
That is definitely not a good thing. We cannot argue about ill-considered upgrade attempts based on the same incoherent scans over and over. It is wasting our time tremendously.
 
Gasper said:
As far as i know, the problem with marvel is that you will really have a hard time finding 1-A hierarchy. Nothing is consistent at all.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I think that it would be much better to divide the cosmology into the most distinctive eras of editors-in-chief in the long run, in order to discern more coherent creative visions for the cosmology.
 
I would suggest this to dc and marvel but I didn't think they would accept it, but since they've already given the idea, I agree
 
Anyway, given that it seems extremely unlikely that the original revision here will be accepted, should we close this thread?
 
Btw: How knowledgeable are you about Marvel Comics and DC Comics, Gasper?
 
Hmm. Would you mind if I add you to my list of people to call for to give input in such revision threads? I do not know if you are knowledgeable enough yet though, so it would just be on a preliminary basis.
 
Thank you. I will add you then.
 
Hey ant, i am sorry to bother you. But could you help with my "world of darkness minor updates i guess" thread?
 
It isn't really my area, and I am very overworked already, and trying to get some free time for meditation and exercise.

Perhaps Ultima would be interested.
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you, but if the Negative Zone is truly intended to be a High 1-B structure, how come that even its most powerful inhabitants, such as Annihilus and Blastaar are considerably less powerful than many earthly superheroes?
Click to expand...
In the case of Blaastar and Annihilus this is usually outlier or plot mechanics like Superman going into the sphere of the gods and beating the crap out of Darkseid. Blaastar since his origin was already a threat to several 'universes' of the Negative Zone, and in Annihilation guide he is even comparable with some abstract like Death. There is also the feat that has even been calculated on this wiki by Amelie IIRC, of Blaastar surviving the Big Bang with a lowbal that the big bang was only 3-A if my memory serves me right.
Antvasima said:
Also, in Jonathan Hickman's version of the cosmology, the entire multiverse could be completely destroyed simply by bumping all of the 4-dimensional universes into each other.
Click to expand...
At the beginning of the New Avengers Event it actually sounds like Hickman is talking about 4-D universes, but as the story unfolds he starts talking about how realms like the Negative Zone were affected, and even quotes the infinite stacked planes that exist in the negative zone, and overall he doesn't see the incursions as 4-dimensional universes, but rather side-by-side at least high 1-B Multiverses being blown up.
  1. Hickman's still has the logic of the stacked planes of existence in the negative zone, therefore his multiverse has infinite higher dimensions - Avengers Vol 5 #25 - January 22, 2014
  2. Multiverses stacked side-by-side - New Avengers Vol 3 #15 - March 19, 2014
And we have plenty of evidence of these stacked planes in the negative zone being a hierarchy of planes that inferiorizes the bottom floor as akin to fiction, since Hickman is just borrowing another writer's cosmology.
Antvasima said:
Wouldn't it be better to use different cosmologies for different editorial eras, such as a Lee/Kirby era, a Jim Shooter era, a Tom DeFalco era, and a Joe Quesada era?
Click to expand...
The sandbox is separated like this but the way I divided it, I haven't seen any striking difference yet for not connecting some cosmologies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hellformer
  • Locked
Ben 10 Cosmology: High 1-B upgrade
14 15 16
Replies
602
Views
47K
Ultima_Reality
Ultima_Reality
Robo432343
Magic: The Gathering 1-A Upgrade
2
Replies
52
Views
4K
Robo432343
Robo432343
Grabbing_dragon
Trinity seven low 1C Worlds simple
Replies
0
Views
495
Grabbing_dragon
Grabbing_dragon
Eseseso
1-A Upgrade for the Astral Plane and the Abstracts (Marvel Comics)
2
Replies
59
Views
6K
ActuallySpaceMan42
ActuallySpaceMan42
Infinity Mage 1-A Cosmology
Replies
7
Views
2K
Pedonar
Pedonar
Back
Top