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Magic: The Gathering 1-A Upgrade

I will be working on Magic in my private time, you can see my blog for updates on how that's going.
then your blog can be a continuation of this thread

so maybe this thread should be closed because you have a way better/not outdated blog and you're actually knowledgeable on the verse
 
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They've had official crossovers for both mediums and WotC/Hazbro owns both. But I don't think they're canon to each other currently. But afaik author WoG regarding the products state they're non-canon or at least non-canon on MtG end.

If they were then the Eldrazi would probably just be FR monsters and 1-A in their true forms.
idk if this crt is closed or not but how does that work with Planeshift: Amonkhet talks about the copyright.
though at the same time the author did say the following

but like bolas exist for what its worth. .

but I need to catch up on what crts are still even Open and closed.
 
IIRC, they're not.

Apparently, there's already been stuff in the D&D crossover books that's non-canon or retconned.
 
  • Blind Eternity (Exists beyond space and time, having no concepts of distance, is all-encompassing, can't be filled, and views the multiverse as a dream and illusion) (1-A)
Is there any context showing that the "illusion and dreams" in this quote refer to the multiverse compared to the "more real" blind eternities? This doesn't look like R>F tbh.
 
Might be best to make a new thread but I do agree with the general range
 
Amongst the new stuff I found, Strixhaven has some insane mathematical manipulation and reality creation feats which may expand the Multiverse's size to being an Ensemble Space IV, and at the very least massively increases the size planes themselves can be.

Turns out they create mathematical realities, creating illogical, paradoxical and impossible spaces, with some like the Metamancers, Phenomenologists and Void Theorists "go beyond numbers to study and tweak the fundamental nature of reality itself"
 
I'm also gonna necro this thread to say I've done a bunch of research recently and it's so easy to get Higher-D and 1-A MTG, it's laughable.

Working it here, I'm going to be adding more when I can but my new Higher-D + 1-A stuff is present:

I'm just gonna point out
Some Planes such as Duskmourn may contain certain Platonic concepts themselves:

“Chrysalises hung around the edges of the room, hard, angular things that gave the impression of natural and unnatural geometry at the same time, like they were shaped from platonic solids dredged out of another dimension. They were painted in shades of green and brown, and as Niko watched, one of them twitched, moved by something from inside. It was unsettling. It hurt their eyes to look at for too long."
Platonic solids are not platonic concepts, platonic solids are 3D shapes whose faces are all made out of the same regular polygon to tldr;

Ugin's Meditation Realm, a Focal Point of the Multiverse itself lacks dimensionality entirely:

Narset shook her head. "I feel something within here. Someone. I have suspicions of whom it might be, but it's impossible. Let's explore more before I make any hasty claims."
Elspeth rose into the air, making an orbit around Narset. It finally dawned on her what she'd found so unsettling: this place lacked dimensionality; it was more an idea than anything concrete, the landscape bending away as she looked at it, warping. It was a trick, an illusion, but for what reason?
This seems more like a property of the realm being more mental, and thus lacking physical dimensions, rather than it transcending them (unless you want to argue that that is due to it being a function of it being the substrate of reality, in which case, eh, though I wouldn't use Focal Point to desscribe it in that case, nor would I really scale the other planes or multiverse to it)
 
Platonic solids are not platonic concepts, platonic solids are 3D shapes whose faces are all made out of the same regular polygon to tldr;
I'm aware that Platonic Solids aren't Platonic Concepts, however, at the same time describing them as "Platonic solids dredged out of another dimension" makes it seem like it could go either way, after all, Platonic Solids aren't otherworldly in anyway, which is why I said in the blog "possibly"

Not unless we're doing a H.P "Lacking the Constitution for Mathematics" Lovecraft
This seems more like a property of the realm being more mental, and thus lacking physical dimensions, rather than it transcending them (unless you want to argue that that is due to it being a function of it being the substrate of reality, in which case, eh, though I wouldn't use Focal Point to desscribe it in that case, nor would I really scale the other planes or multiverse to it)
The point isn't to scale any singular plane to the rest, as in my own blog I point out Ravnica is 7-D, but Simone from Strixhaven understands things in 12 Dimensions.

The Plane section is to go over what the Maximum size of a Plane is in relation to the Multiverse and Blind Eternities.

Also it's not a mental place in the sense it exists in the mind, it pre-existed Ugin and Bolas who thought they were creators. It's simply that the Plane itself can be controlled through Willpower;

"Because this is a hub," yelled Jace, winking out of existence and reappearing behind Narset. His tone was plaintive as he said, "The elder dragons never realized it, in their arrogance, but Loot's mind showed it to me. This place is a substrate to all of reality, touching countless worlds and moldable by sheer force of will. If I take control of it, I can fix everything. I can make it so that the Phyrexians never did what they did to Vraska—"

So this doesn't mean dimensionless to be inferior, because that just wouldn't make sense? It's clearly dimensionless in the sense that it has nothing to do with the dimensions of reality, it's more fundamental than them.
 
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I should note, given everything I know about it, I think Theros is probably the only potentially 1-A plane I've come across yet (except for the Meditation Realm ofc)
 
Im curious as to why
There's a bunch of Platonic analogies from Theros alongside Nyx and the Mythic Sea which contain concepts, even unimagined ones:

This body of mist and water hides endless secrets
within its depths-both literal secrets that manifest from mortal minds and unimagined concepts not yet fully formed. Thassa's palace floats underwater, its buildings suspended in giant bubbles that drift with the currents. At its edge, in a city of divine copper and marbleized hopes, Ephara makes her home.
We know that Planes like Strixhaven literally create Mathematical realities, with Metamancers and Void Theorists going beyond numbers:
The blue side of Quandrix attracts those who delve into the abstract realms
of theory, conjecture, and possibility. Abstractors and proofspinners conjure wild magic that stretches the possibilities of space. Spiralmancers and fractalologists create beautiful patterns and odd optical illusions with uncertain relationships to reality. Echognosts and sequence prophets learn by studying infinite repeating patterns that bend the mind. Metamancers, phenomenologists, and void theorists go beyond numbers to study and tweak the fundamental nature of reality itself, learning or altering essential truths about the world. Sometimes this generates "impossibles," which are strange, surreal beings born of paradoxes.
The green side of Quandrix is focused on bringing numerical possibilities to
life, creating physical reality out of mathematical possibilities. Vivifiers, zoetimancers, and figurists conjure fractal creatures based on biological life. Augmentors and scale druids, simply put, enjoy making things BIGGER. The famed Quandrix mana scholars investigate the nature and possibilities of mana itself and give lectures on leylines, Snarls, spellcasting, and other mana phenomena across the plane
The Quandrix campus is alive with dynamic sculptures made of water
behaving in odd ways: cube-shaped fountains, arching aqueducts that flow through the air, towers of solid-seeming water. One water structure holds a secret: a mysterious inner expanse called the Arithmodrome. From the outside, the Arithmodrome looks like a large cube of water, 10 feet on a side. Inside, it's an infinite-seeming theory-space where the rules of reality are suspended. Mages use this space to explore theoretical numerical possibilities
The beyond numbers part is interesting because Strixhaven (or at least Zimone) has its own version of Set theory and Cardinality via proof (they do the "there's an infinite amount of numbers between two digits"):
"Let me add to the growth factors." Zimone's fingers, trailing bluish light, dabbed through Dina's scrawls, pocking the muddy-green sigils with spots of brightness. "The imaginary spaces between discrete physical features theoretically extend forever, the same way an infinity of numbers exists between discrete digits. If we apply Thale's Expansion Hypothesis to flip imaginary into real . . ."
Given all this, we can safely say that Nyx or The Mythical Sea has these concepts within them.

If you're sceptical, some of the natives of Theros have discovered Platonism explicitly in Aether:
The Æther is of particular interest to Meletian scholars, and many study its use in magic. Some believe that the Æther is the realm of abstract entities, such as numbers, concepts, and theories. Some formalists study magics that allow them to cause objects to disappear from physical reality. They say they are "perfecting" real, necessarily flawed, concrete objects by transferring them to the realm of perfect, abstract entities.

On the scaling front...

We know the Gods themselves are roughly equal to High tier Planeswalkers and maybe the Eldrazi Titan's avatars according to Kruphix who gained all the knowledge of several Planeswalkers who fought the Titans:
The merfolk Kiora, said Kruphix, came here from a world whose existence
was threatened by something called the Eldrazi. They are vast and terrible,
the equal of any god. And they eat worlds, My Oracle. Strip the flesh from
the bones of the earth and leave a dead husk, moving on to the next.
It's possibly because Kruphix does go on to say he doesn't know if Bolas, the Eldrazi or the New Phyrexians could be stopped if they came to Theros even by the Gods.

Given though that a single Planeswalker was able to severely hurt 2 Eldrazi Titans, I think it's safe to say the collective Pantheon of Theros would be roughly equal.

ALSO YES. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE ULAMOG OR KOZILEK ARE DEAD. THIS IS FAKE NEWS.
 
If you're sceptical, some of the natives of Theros have discovered Platonism explicitly in Aether:
So a slight correction, Aether is not unique to Theross, Aether is literally the Blind Eternities, the abstract realmspace that exists between Planes
It's possibly because Kruphix does go on to say he doesn't know if Bolas, the Eldrazi or the New Phyrexians could be stopped if they came to Theros even by the Gods.
I mean, yeah, they did a pretty piss poor job of that during the invasion of the multiverse
 

Planeswalker sparks are literally a fragment of Aether implanted in a physical body
 
So a slight correction, Aether is not unique to Theross, Aether is literally the Blind Eternities, the abstract realmspace that exists between Planes
I'm aware. In my blog it's in the Blind Eternities section, however, it is an idea people in Theros have. And we know the Realm doesn't collapse when Aether enters it.


Planeswalker sparks are literally a fragment of Aether implanted in a physical body
Yeah, I have that in my blog too, I have a easy quote for it:

Cradling Dominaria, and all planes in the multiverse, is utter void. Some
call this infinite expanse of nothingness the "Blind Eternities." It would feel bitterly cold, if it felt like anything. It would sound like a raging storm, if it supported sound at all. But nothing has no properties. And yet it is this void that creates the power of the planeswalker. Sunlight does not pierce the darkness of the Blind Eternities, but another kind of light can. A planeswalker's spark is the fire that burns through nonexistence, the magic that forges possibility from the impossible. The cultivation and nurturing of a spark can generate epic power, and its sacrifice can release it
 
Given though that a single Planeswalker was able to severely hurt 2 Eldrazi Titans, I think it's safe to say the collective Pantheon of Theros would be roughly equal.

ALSO YES. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE ULAMOG OR KOZILEK ARE DEAD. THIS IS FAKE NEWS.
(A planeswalker aided by the mana of an entire plane, yeah, but also (seemingly) only ******* up their physical manifestations rather than the titans proper, so I'm quite eeeh on that scaling)
 
(A planeswalker aided by the mana of an entire plane, yeah, but also (seemingly) only ******* up their physical manifestations rather than the titans proper, so I'm quite eeeh on that scaling)
Tragically, and with the biggest frustration, the Lore says Ulamog and Kozilek are actually dead.

Unfathomably, despite PRE-MENDING UGIN, NAHIRI AND SORIN seemingly being unable to kill them, worrying that if they were to do so, they would just pop up elsewhere, Chandra just scorching them was enough to perma-kill the two Titans.

I am a Truther, however. I refuse to believe that Ulamog and Kozilek are actually dead and they're just gonna come back.

We did see a new Eldrazi creature in the main set of Edge of Eternities, so there's hope.
 
INTERESTING.

I got my hands on "The Art of Magic the Gathering: Zendikar" and in that book, it says Ulamog is the weakest of the three Titans and that the Titans themselves are made up of something "akin to Aether".

It also says that "Even their magic transcends the categories of spells and classifications of mana and recognises no distinction between mana of one land and that of another"

Which is a very funny way to say they use Colourless Mana. It does make Colourless mana sound cooler though.

It also says Ulamog embodies Infinite Consumption
 
INTERESTING.

I got my hands on "The Art of Magic the Gathering: Zendikar" and in that book, it says Ulamog is the weakest of the three Titans and that the Titans themselves are made up of something "akin to Aether".

It also says that "Even their magic transcends the categories of spells and classifications of mana and recognises no distinction between mana of one land and that of another"

Which is a very funny way to say they use Colourless Mana. It does make Colourless mana sound cooler though.

It also says Ulamog embodies Infinite Consumption
yeah all of the artbooks are lowkey guidebook statement goldmines

Theres also mini guides in the Visual History series
 
Also an argument could be made for the Planes themselves each being 1-A, as it's a reoccuring factor that the "Worldsoul"s are the total embodiment of all concepts and phenomena on the planes, currently with two instances of it happening on Lorwyn and Kamigawa, so it's safe to assume that it applies to the other Worldsouls too, amongst the phenomena embodied by these local conceptual gods is The Planeswalker Spark.

The kami are the great spirits who come from Kakuriyo, the spirit
world. Kami are manifestation of all things on Kamigawa; each place, event, and concept has a spiritual counterpart in Kakuriyo. Because of this, kami come in an overwhelming variety of forms, even among the same "species" of kami, and their brand of magic is mysterious and beyond anything mortals have conceived. There might be a kami of a specific object, like the kami of imperial dishware, or powerful overarching concepts like Kyodai, the soul of Kamigawa.
Uramon replied, but Toshi was concentrating too hard to
listen. There were kami spirits for everything in the utsushiyo— storms, rivers, stones, swords, light. Even concepts such as justice and rage had patron spirits in the kakuriyo. Toshi had fallen in with the Myojin of Night's Reach, the major spirit of darkness and secrecy, which held sway wherever there was no light. He made very few demands on her and she on him, but he had spent all of his time lately establishing what her power could do and how to invoke it. He was by no means expert, but he had learned to call upon her blessings in a manner that suited him perfectly

And yes, I did check the newer lore too and the newer lore is even more explicit than the old ones:

Greater elementals are embodiments of ideas and concepts, often
weird, whimsical, or terrifying. They are typically massive, dwarfing many of the other creatures on the plane, though they might also take on smaller forms if they so desire. They are forces of nature that are untamable and primal. They are neither good nor evil, existing beyond the typical understanding of morality. Flamekin have a specific connection to these beings, though their communication is often a mix of instinct and guesswork.

In Lorwyn Eclipsed, the new Elemental Gods are the total embodiments of Lorwyn (the Plane) together, representing Lowyn (the Light Half) and Shadowmoore respectively are also called Worldsouls

Soon, there was a slowing of these transformations. Borders seemed to stabilize and inched forward like gentle tides rather than crashing waves. People began to see two great beings in the far-off distance that seemed to walk along the horizon: Eirdu, the incarnation of Lorwyn, and Isilu, the incarnation of Shadowmoor. The twin worldsoul of the plane had emerged again to control the ebb and flow of the plane's auroras.

Onto the Planeswalker spark part, in Kamigawa, there's just straight up a Kami of the Spark called Himoto:

When Himoto, the Kami of the Spark, turned Kaito into a planeswalker, he knew it must've been for a reason. That somehow the spirit realm had known Kaito was the only person on a hundred planes who would never stop searching for her.
Considering the Spark is a portion of the Blind Eternities and is considered to be outside of Space and Time and involved in the platonically perfect Void, suffice to say these guys can reach 1-A by themselves.

Also Himoto isn't even a powerful Kami either!
 
Dormammu vs Nicol Bolas incoming?
I'm fiendishly cooking up some EVIL.

iu


I am also interested in hearing perspectives as I livetweet my research
 
Something I've realised;

I think the planes are probably equal after all in totality (as in one whole plane v another). As we see from Strixhaven, Theros, Kamigawa, Lorwyn, etc. the potential for phenomena always exists within the planes even when its not actualised, which is how Zimone's magic even works and how Strixhaven has entire classes dedicated to bringing the unrealised mathematical realities into existence.

Likewise, in Theros, where all concepts and ideas exist in potentiality and with Lorwyn with the new Elemental Gods who are the embodiments of literally two potentials for the plane, it seems to me that each plane contains within it the potential for it to be alternate versions, which ties into the Infinite Timelines contained within each Plane.

Then again, with the timeline looking more
like a scribble these days, it could just be that many versions of the same two or three goblin wizards keep popping into the now from one of the infinite thens. I don’t think about it too hard; goblin wizards are as unworthy of thought as treefolk sprinters
Dominaria's time rifts continue to make life more and more
bizarre for its struggling inhabitants. The hand of Time brings the menaces of yesterday forward to cause havoc again today. The foes of ages past are deadly, but their methods and weaknesses are known. Dominarians can use this knowledge to survive the rifts and those who step through them. But the rifts are fracturing further, changing shape, changing direction. The hand of Time reaches not just backward but also into a temporal kaleidoscope, pointing to infinite pasts that facet and twist and branch from every moment. Through this twisting, ever-changing array of moments, Time grabs hold of just one. It could be the one we all know, the one in which the cat chose to kill the mouse that lay trapped beneath its paw. Or it could be the one in which the cat succumbs to an alien feeling of pity and sheathes its claws. Each of these moments begins a new timeline, creates a new cat, a new world into which the time rifts may open
I should also note that Zeno's paradox (time infinitely divisible) exists in MtG, so each moment creates infinite moments.

Magic itself is just raw potential and we know when magic creates a thing it's interfacing with the Platonically perfect form of said thing:
Mana is the most generative force in the Multiverse. It is raw
potential in its most primal form, the fuel that runs the entire
multiverse. It is the clay that mages shape into spells, which they use in
turn to shape existence itself.
Jodah said nothing, and Lim-Dul continued, “When
you cast the spell, you envisioned that which you would create, a perfect ‘chair’ that you were trying to emulate. I have heard, and I believe, that there is an ultimate ‘chair’ somewhere that we both model our thoughts from—one that has the basics of all ‘chair-ness.’ Does this ring any bells?”
There's also this tid bit from Teferi in Time Spiral:
Teferi answered. This rift has far more of a personality than the
others. It’s not sentient by any means, but it does seem to be keying off
the three of you. You’re all seeing different things that matter to you.
Your thoughts give form to the substance of this place. Think of it as a
huge mass of magic potentiality, which your powers have turned into a
kind of psychic storehouse or graveyard. The residue of all the time and
space distortions you’ve experienced has settled here, and your thoughts
give it form, perhaps even substance.
Or this when Yawgmoth leaves a Plane with Dyfed, we see this:

A crazy geometry ruled the blankness around them. Circles curved
outward instead of inward. Pentagons had square corners. Every line
bled itself into every other possible line. It was a chaos of potentiality,
in which all things simultaneously did and did not exist.
In the same book, Yawgmoth gets his hand on a conduit and we learn that all the energy of a Plane does include actuality and potentiality:
Dyfed crossed arms over her chest. “You will be a conduit for every
energy in the world. Actuality and potentiality will pass through you
to imprint the stone. Once begun, the power surge will continue to
completion—even if you are burned away in the process.”

So ultimately, I do think that each Plane itself might just be 1-A as it contains all potential for itself, even Mathematical constructions of itself.
 
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I just found a Q&A with a MTG writer who wrote for Davriel (the Contract Planeswalker) and while it's left amiguous in the story, he intended for the entities following them to give them Planeswalker Sparks.

What are these entities? Worldsouls from destroyed Planes.

So 1. This proves that Planes depend on Worldsouls, not the otherway around.
2. Planes in their totality (Worldsouls) are 1-A and are even capable of gifting Sparks
3. Planes can manipulate Aether.
 
I just found a Q&A with a MTG writer who wrote for Davriel (the Contract Planeswalker) and while it's left amiguous in the story, he intended for the entities following them to give them Planeswalker Sparks.

What are these entities? Worldsouls from destroyed Planes.

So 1. This proves that Planes depend on Worldsouls, not the otherway around.
2. Planes in their totality (Worldsouls) are 1-A and are even capable of gifting Sparks
3. Planes can manipulate Aether.
While you are absolutely cooking here, perhaps it'd be best to gather all this stuff and make a new thread for 1-A MTG.

I really want MTG to have 1-A smurfs so I can make them fight Marvel
 
While you are absolutely cooking here, perhaps it'd be best to gather all this stuff and make a new thread for 1-A MTG.

I really want MTG to have 1-A smurfs so I can make them fight Marvel
Oh yeah, I plan to, I'm just livetweeting before I bring it all together for a new thread.

TBH, I should just make a "Udlmaster's research thread: Follow along to schizoid-researching"

I might just make the CRT for 1-A planes now, since I'm still researching to see if I can get maybe High 1-A Blind Eternities.
 
While you are absolutely cooking here, perhaps it'd be best to gather all this stuff and make a new thread for 1-A MTG.

I really want MTG to have 1-A smurfs so I can make them fight Marvel
Funny thing is there are a good number of them who wouldnt even be Smurfs, just straight up 1-A

All the Oldwalkers would at least be 1-A
 
I just found a Q&A with a MTG writer who wrote for Davriel (the Contract Planeswalker) and while it's left amiguous in the story, he intended for the entities following them to give them Planeswalker Sparks.

What are these entities? Worldsouls from destroyed Planes.

So 1. This proves that Planes depend on Worldsouls, not the otherway around.
2. Planes in their totality (Worldsouls) are 1-A and are even capable of gifting Sparks
3. Planes can manipulate Aether.
Flashback to the time Urza collapsed Serra's entire plane as well as its Worldsoul into a Powerstone to use as a battery for the Weatherlight
 
Funny thing is there are a good number of them who wouldnt even be Smurfs, just straight up 1-A

All the Oldwalkers would at least be 1-A
Yeah, so the way I see it right now:

Oldwalkers are all At least 1-A (They can make Planes and kinda ignore Death if they want to, Bolas needed all the sparks in the multiverse to equal his Oldwalker spark)

Worldsouls would be 1-A (The totality of a Plane and it's potential states)

Neo-Walkers would be "varies up to 1-A"

The Eldrazi's Avatars would be 1-A for obvious reasons.

Multiversal Constants would all be 1-A like the Ur-Dragon, Ur-Spider, etc.

Certain entities who just scale to the Spark (1-A) or to Planeswalkers like that random Trent on Dominara that solo'd Urza and took his power from him.

The Phyrexian Praetors might become 1-A, but I'm not sure yet.

The Theros Gods get a "possibly 1-A"

This is all the ones off the top of my head, feel free to ask about any of the others.
Flashback to the time Urza collapsed Serra's entire plane as well as its Worldsoul into a Powerstone to use as a battery for the Weatherlight
Unfathomable BM
 
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Even better.

Like I said, Dormammu vs Nicol Bolas incoming.

Also, had no idea you liked MTG, Weekly
Having no idea that the guy who was the driving force behind 90% of the MTG revisions and cleanups back in the day liked MTG is crazy
 
You guys wanted it:

 
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