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Marvel Comics - Cosmology Upgrade

Quick question, if the negative zone is low 1-A
Doesn't this mean the complete destruction of the universe at all levels low 1-A too?
 
Kenshin_ said:
Quick question, if the negative zone is low 1-A
Doesn't this mean the complete destruction of the universe at all levels low 1-A too?
Click to expand...

not unless the negative zone is linked to them in some way and that link is affected, for example let's say you have two 1A realms one with 2 layers above the baseline and one with 3 even if the realm with 3 layers is fully destroyed a com 2 would not be affected unless that realm is inside the 3 tier or has something that connects those 2 realms and that something is also affected by the destruction of that 3 tier realm
 
Transcending said:

Click to expand...
I see no mention of infinite degrees of infinity, much less something vastly beyond it, within those pages, and even if it had been stated, that would make no sense whatsoever in conjunction with all other portrayals of the Negative Zone.

Everybody please permanently stop trying to unreasonably completely exaggerate the scale of superhero comic books far beyond what has actually been clearly established within them, based on extremely loose and inconsistent premises. Thank you.

We are here to provide as truthful and reliable information as possible, not let our enthusiasm completely get the better of us.

I would much prefer if we close this thread now.
 
Antvasima said:
I see no mention of infinite degrees of infinity, much less something vastly beyond it, within those pages, and even if it had been stated, that would make no sense whatsoever in conjunction with all other portrayals of the Negative Zone.

Everybody please permanently stop trying to unreasonably completely exaggerate the scale of superhero comic books far beyond what has actually been clearly established within them, based on extremely loose and inconsistent premises. Thank you.

We are here to provide as truthful and reliable information as possible, not let our enthusiasm completely get the better of us.

I would much prefer if we close this thread now.
Click to expand...
Frankly, my sandbox has all the evidence you are asking for about the Negative Zone, and it is even separated by more eras of Editor-In-Chief than the example you asked for earlier.

I don't know if you have read it, which I don't think you have, but there is a ton of evicende about the subspace/hypersoace being High 1-B in several eras of Editor-In-Chief. The subspace is just the function of dimensionality that is inside the Negative Zone, these scans you quoted are just complements, showing that there is no dimensionality above the Negative Zone, because all the higher dimensions are inside it.
 
Alonik said:
Frankly, my sandbox has all the evidence you are asking for about the Negative Zone, and it is even separated by more eras of Editor-In-Chief than the example you asked for earlier.

I don't know if you have read it, which I don't think you have, but there is a ton of evicende about the subspace/hypersoace being High 1-B in several eras of Editor-In-Chief. The subspace is just the function of dimensionality that is inside the Negative Zone, these scans you quoted are just complements, showing that there is no dimensionality above the Negative Zone, because all the higher dimensions are inside it.
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If that's true i think a solid high 1B sould work.
 
Wait a minute, why not just go with Impress' original plan for the cosmology split? If "this is too high and can't be accepted" and would rather take editors over canon explanation, why not just go by what Impress was proposing, which would solve all these issues?
 
Confluctor said:
Wait a minute, why not just go with Impress' original plan for the cosmology split? If "this is too high and can't be accepted" and would rather take editors over canon explanation, why not just go by what Impress was proposing, which would solve all these issues?
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I fully agree to separate the cosmologies, including how many divisions will be made, I don't think 2?
 
I mean, the sandbox is divided into more than 5 editor-in-chiefs IIRC, the only anyone can ask is to divide it into fewer numbers or even more. Or whatever the number we split, in all the eras the subspace in all the canon is always High 1-B.

Anyhow, for me it doesn't matter in how many ways it will be split, the problem is when come up with the "this is too high and can't be accepted" amidst the thread rather than see if the justifications match, which they already do; Ultima months ago had already seen this and agreed with High 1-B/possibly Low 1-A for the Negative Zone
 
Alonik said:
Frankly, my sandbox has all the evidence you are asking for about the Negative Zone, and it is even separated by more eras of Editor-In-Chief than the example you asked for earlier.

I don't know if you have read it, which I don't think you have, but there is a ton of evicende about the subspace/hypersoace being High 1-B in several eras of Editor-In-Chief. The subspace is just the function of dimensionality that is inside the Negative Zone, these scans you quoted are just complements, showing that there is no dimensionality above the Negative Zone, because all the higher dimensions are inside it.
Click to expand...
I haven't read your sandbox due to being very busy in both this community and IRL nowadays. I have only checked through the scans that you have posted here.

Can you link to it again please?
Confluctor said:
Wait a minute, why not just go with Impress' original plan for the cosmology split? If "this is too high and can't be accepted" and would rather take editors over canon explanation, why not just go by what Impress was proposing, which would solve all these issues?
Click to expand...
What kind of cosmology split did Impress suggest exactly? Something similar to my "Pre-Quesada | Post-Quesada / Classic | Modern" version?
 
Confluctor said:
Impress' proposal was; account for both low ends and high ends of cosmology and files because we have in canon reason for their varied powers. The evidence is in the thread itself.
Click to expand...
Please elaborate.
 
Last edited:
Antvasima said:
I haven't read your sandbox due to being very busy in both this community and IRL nowadays. I have only checked through the scans that you have posted here.

Can you link to it again please?
Click to expand...
Not a problem, I understand and i'm loaded as well, but please don't deny again before evaluating, or at least until a good number of knowledgeable members evaluate it.

It's not even close to being finished, but this sandbox: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Alonik/sandbox
It is splitting the cosmologies like, and even better than just "Pre-Quesada | Post-Quesada / Classic | Modern"
 
Alonik said:
Not a problem, I understand and i'm loaded as well, but please don't deny again before evaluating, or at least until a good number of knowledgeable members evaluate it.

It's not even close to being finished, but this sandbox: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Alonik/sandbox
It is splitting the cosmologies like, and even better than just "Pre-Quesada | Post-Quesada / Classic | Modern"
Click to expand...
Thank you for the information. Please elaborate regarding your intended cosmology split though.

@DontTalkDT @Pain_to12 @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Eficiente

What tiering do you think seems warranted based on the above blog post?
 
Sorry to bother but we also have Defenders Beyond where Ewing in #2 of today gives us Beyonder's origin and many more exciting things. Could help with the modern Tiering. Beyond MultiEternity is The Beyond which power itself from higher Dimensions like The White Hot Room.
 
Ewing never makes any sense with his scaling though. So far he has had Monica Rambeau and the Blue Marvel beat up Beyonders on different occasions, just because he personally favours and cheats to extremes with his storytelling for them, and let America Chavez do the same thing by wearing the Eternity Mask, and it obviously doesn't make sense that universal Eternity, who is canonically usually considered to be Low 2-C, but we consider as 2-A or Low 1-C, can empower an object to fight Low 1-A entities either.
 
Antvasima said:
America Chavez do the same thing by wearing the Eternity Mask, and it obviously doesn't make sense that universal Eternity, who is canonically usually considered to be Low 2-C, but we consider as 2-A or Low 1-C, can empower an object to fight Low 1-A entities either.
Click to expand...
Could work here if Multi Eternity powers the mask since he aids the Defenders or PIS since Beyonder could be toying with her...
 
Hasty12345 said:
Sometimes I read these comic threads and just think it would be better off if Marvel and DC were just straight up deleted.

The absurd lengths certain members go to to both wank and use head canon and beyond ensure excuses to downplay is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Well, both verses are extremely illogical in terms of coherent storytelling and semi-realistic matchup results, so our character profile page statistics have also turned very inconsistent, but deleting them would sigbificantly hurt our wiki's longterm popularity.

I do agree that certain members tend to leap at the flimsiest excuses for extremely exaggerated upgrades and stack contradictory cosmologies on top of each other, though, which has been extremely tiresome to deal with, especially as DC Comics in particular is likely rated with statistics that are not remotely supported by any of the stories themselves.
 
Pain_to12 said:
Read through it, I dont really agree with the low 1-A, but the High 1-B is fine and solid
Click to expand...
Okay. Thank you for helping out. That can probably be used then.
Confluctor said:
No, far from it. Her is reliant on canon explaination for why cosmology varies. Since we don't have to separate it by people when canon covers it.
Click to expand...
Okay. Please explain further exactly what approach that he advocates.

I still think that the most honest approach is to make a split from when Joe Quesada decided to throw all of the old storytelling and coherent continuity standards out of the window though.
 
No split is absolutely stupid and ignores far tooo much in verse context. Doing it for DC is one thing cause they have no in canon reasons for it, but marvel does.
 
Confluctor said:
No split is absolutely stupid and ignores far tooo much in verse context. Doing it for DC is one thing cause they have no in canon reasons for it, but marvel does.
Click to expand...
I do not think that it is stupid, given the massive downgrades of the cosmology that explicitly happened under Quesada. Before his era, infinite degrees of infinity within the multiverse were actually explained outright, and regular superheroes could do absolutely nothing to even M-Bodies of the cosmic entities, whereas their full power states are currently beaten left and right and the entire multiverse can be destroyed just by bumping all of the universes into each other.
 
Essentially, Marvel has a REALLY good case for in-canon Cosmology splits, since the One Above All and the House of Ideas have been known to be able to change character tiers to a cosmological scale (Example being Nyx in Avengers: No Road Home), even able to create new cosmological beings from scratch (The One Below All), but most importantly, through basic insinuation and even basic dialogue, the One Above All is the representation of the writer, and every character in Marvel's narrative are just that, characters, subject to his whim. This implies the inconsistencies may very well be in-canon result of the One Above All's tampering towards his narrative, whether it's explicit or not.
Click to expand...
Here - a to;Dr of her proposal
Antvasima said:
I do not think that it is stupid, given the massive downgrades of the cosmology that explicitly happened under Quesada. Before his era, infinite degrees of infinity within the multiverse were actually explained outright, and regular superheroes could do absolutely nothing to even M-Bodies of the cosmic entities, whereas their full power states are currently beaten left and right and the entire multiverse can be destroyed just by bumping all of the universes into each other.
Click to expand...
Again, if there is in verse answer for this stuff, why ignore it?
 
Confluctor said:
Here - a to;Dr of her proposal

Again, if there is in verse answer for this stuff, why ignore it?
Click to expand...
I agree with Confluctor here, but I think honestly it's whatever, because even if it splits as requested the only thing that will at most change in concept is the way the Multiverse is viewed.

For example, Joe Quesada's Multiverse is a Type III where earths exist on different levels of infinities, as seen in X-Man with the tree of worlds. Whereas in DeFalco's hands the focus for the concept of dimensionality is precisely laid in the subspace, alongside his entire Editor-In-Chief work that unfolds arounds the framework "subspace/hyperspace" within the Negative Zone, even in the comics he has written so far.

That's so fat the only notable and that you could call striking difference, but after Quesada the cosmology just go back to the Subspace/Hyperspace thing as the concept of dimensionality. Whether it will be split or whatnot, on any given issue it has a consistency that even if fully splited, they will still be the same concept in Tiering, not to mention as Confluctor said, there are many canonical connections between most of the cosmologies.
 
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