Asriel Dreemurr (Undertale) vs Dormammu (MCU) - 1/3/0

[ThanatosX]

Match for the 10th position of the strongest non-smurf 2-B.

Asriel is in his "God of Hyperdeath" key, "possibly 2-B".

Speed is equalized and SBA is applied.

Who wins?

Asriel Dreemurr (Undertale): 1 (ShionAH)

Dormammu (MCU): 3 (RoTt35, Soma_King, ThanatosX)

Incon:

 

[RoTt35]

Is Asriel's hax, mainly his Paralysis Inducement, 4D? If it isn't then it can't affect Dormammu due to his HDE

 

[ThanatosX]

From what I understand, Asriel used his Paralysis Inducement only once against Frisk, which however is a 3-D being so I don't think that it would work against Dormammu's HDE. He only fought against Frisk in this form, so I have no idea which are his 4-D haxes.

 

[RoTt35]

Okay, so most of Asriel's hax won't work on Dormammu, who would simply absorb space-time and reality to merge it with his Dark Dimension and into himself

 

[ThanatosX]

Bump

 

[ShionAH]

Asriel can nuke timelines to hurt Dormamu which is 4D

 

[RoTt35]

And Dormammu can absorb and merge space-time, reality and Asriel himself in the Dark Dimension and into his body

 

[ShionAH]

And Dormammu can absorb and merge space-time, reality and Asriel himself in the Dark Dimension and into his body

When did he do that, Can it negate Low Godly or Save and Load?

 

[RoTt35]

When did he do that

That's the plot of the movie? Trying to stop Dormammu before he absorbs the whole universe, and all the scans are on his profile

Can it negate Low Godly

May I ask where Low-Godly comes from? Since Asriel's profile doesn't say anything or have scans, just that he scales from the Amalgamates by absorbing them, can't Dormammu do the same btw?

Save and Load?

Dormammu can consume space-time and reality itself, and in the worst case he has Acausality

 

[ShionAH]

That's the plot of the movie? Trying to stop Dormammu before he absorbs the whole universe, and all the scans are on his profile

So he has never done it IC?

May I ask where Low-Godly comes from? Since Asriel's profile doesn't say anything or have scans, just that he scales from the Amalgamates by absorbing them,

Amalgamates have Low-Godly, Asriel absorbed their powers and abilities

can't Dormammu do the same btw?

What?

Dormammu can consume space-time and reality itself, and in the worst case he has Acausality

Save and Load works in timeless places iirc

 

[RoTt35]

So he has never done it IC?

? I just told you that Dormammu consuming the universe is the plot of the movie, and his only goal is to absorb all of the infinite universes within the Multiverse, it's all in the profile

Amalgamates have Low-Godly, Asriel absorbed their powers and abilities

Yes, but why do the Amalgamates have Low-Godly? Their profiles say that just by having a absurdly high concentration of Determination

What?

I mean, Dormammu absorbing and merging Asriel into his own body

Save and Load works in timeless places iirc

Dormammu not only absorbs time, but space and reality itself as well. How much range does the Save and Load have? And does it work if Asriel is pulled to another dimension?

 

[ShionAH]

? I just told you that Dormammu consuming the universe is the plot of the movie, and his only goal is to absorb all of the infinite universes within the Multiverse, it's all in the profile

Makes sense I guess-

Yes, but why do the Amalgamates have Low-Godly? Their profiles say that just by having a absurdly high concentration of Determination

Determination is cracked

I mean, Dormammu absorbing and merging Asriel into his own body

Has he shown ability to absorb souls?

Dormammu not only absorbs time, but space and reality itself as well

Save and Load works in void as far as I know.

. How much range does the Save and Load have?

Universal+

And does it work if Asriel is pulled to another dimension?

Probably since it effects literal timelines

 

[ShionAH]

How high is Dormammus AP in 2-B?

 

[RoTt35]

Determination is cracked

What does that mean?

Has he shown ability to absorb souls?

He can affect someone's "essence" after destroying their physical form, I don't know if that counts

Save and Load works in void as far as I know.

Scans?

Universal+

So, assuming the Save and Load works on Dormammu, he would know that due to his Acausality and can pull Asriel into the Dark Dimension, which is 2-B in size

How high is Dormammus AP in 2-B?

Countless

 

[ShionAH]

What does that mean?

It means yes they have low godly like it says on the profile.

He can affect someone's "essence" after destroying their physical form, I don't know if that counts

Hmmm

Scans?

Need some digging

So, assuming the Save and Load works on Dormammu, he would know that due to his Acausality and can pull Asriel into the Dark Dimension, which is 2-B in size

Whats stopping asriel from nuking him?

Countless

So AP is same? Whats the reason for his countless?

 

[ShionAH]

I think its this scan.

 

[ThanatosX]

There are some problems with the arguments in favour of Asriel. First of all, his Low-Godly Regen seems to be extremely iffy. It comes from Amalgamates, which however never showed to be able to regenerate after their body was completely destroyed, and even if they would be able to do so that it would be unknown how much time it would take them to do it. On top of this Asriel have that regeneration because of absorbing them, but it's unknown if he was able to gain that power at all, and if he did he never showed to be able to use it meaning that it is unknown if he has any power of it or he can use it in battle.
And the Save and Load ability is tricky, considering that in Asriel's page it's specified that this ability comes from him having complete control over the timeline, but in this case there would be no timeline in which he can use it considering that Dormammu would absorb him in the Dark Dimension, which is not a timeline considering that it completely lacks time.
Also, I remember the scene in that scan, and I don't think that there was any statement that they were in a place without time.

 

[RoTt35]

It means yes they have low godly like it says on the profile.

Yes, but why is it Low-Godly? Why does having Determination mean they can regenerate their body after being erased?

Whats stopping asriel from nuking him?

Withstanding being nuke? It's not like Asriel is going to one-shot Dormammu, who can absorb and merge space-time, reality and Asriel, or pull him to the Dark Dimension where he has absolute control over it and can warp reality with a thought

So AP is same? Whats the reason for his countless?

Dormammu has assimilated countless dimensions and universes in the Dark Dimension and into his own space-time composite body

I think its this scan.

Scan of what?

 

[ShionAH]

There are some problems with the arguments in favour of Asriel. First of all, his Low-Godly Regen seems to be extremely iffy. It comes from Amalgamates, which however never showed to be able to regenerate after their body was completely destroyed, and even if they would be able to do so that it would be unknown how much time it would take them to do it. On top of this Asriel have that regeneration because of absorbing them, but it's unknown if he was able to gain that power at all, and if he did he never showed to be able to use it meaning that it is unknown if he has any power of it or he can use it in battle.

He has all the powers he absorbed since he can summon them and has shown ability to use them lol

And the Save and Load ability is tricky, considering that in Asriel's page it's specified that this ability comes from him having complete control over the timeline, but in this case there would be no timeline in which he can use it considering that Dormammu would absorb him in the Dark Dimension, which is not a timeline considering that it completely lacks time.

The meaning is that if someone like frisk is there he cannot use it. Because frisk was the reason they couldnt save.

Also, I remember the scene in that scan, and I don't think that there was any statement that they were in a place without time.

I think they were in the void? Doesnt matter as Asriel says he can still save and load or reset when they are in the void even after he nukes the timeline.

Yes, but why is it Low-Godly? Why does having Determination mean they can regenerate their body after being erased?

No idea on that tbh. You should ask other supporters

Withstanding being nuke? It's not like Asriel is going to one-shot Dormammu, who can absorb and merge space-time, reality and Asriel, or pull him to the Dark Dimension where he has absolute control over it and can warp reality with a thought

I asked whats the reason for Dormammus countless AP. So we can learn who has the more likely AP advantage.

Dormammu has assimilated countless dimensions and universes in the Dark Dimension and into his own space-time composite body

Hmm Idk who has the advantage here tbh so Asriel scales to UT cosmology which has flowey who did EVERYTHING he can do with each time resetting and creating a new timeline

Scan of what?

Void plus Asriel can reset in the void as he nukes the timelines in his battle

 

[ShionAH]

What can Dormammu do about True Reset? It even negates Aca 1 I think or maybe only Aca 1 of DT users

 

[RoTt35]

Void plus Asriel can reset in the void as he nukes the timelines in his battle

Well, in that case Dormammu can still pull Asriel into the Dark Dimension which is 2-B in size

What can Dormammu do about True Reset?

Asriel starts with that?

It even negates Aca 1 I think or maybe only Aca 1 of DT users

That's an important difference, Dormammu remembers everything from an endless time loop

 

[ShionAH]

Well, in that case Dormammu can still pull Asriel into the Dark Dimension which is 2-B in size

Hmm he can do that but Acausality (Type 1: Remained aware of Doctor Strange's time loop, initially with some effort)

Asriel starts with that?

He will do it after he realises its not working.

That's an important difference, Dormammu remembers everything from an endless time loop

It probably does neg Aca 1. Doesnt matter as True Reset would make Dormammu forget the fight lol

 

[RoTt35]

Hmm he can do that but Acausality (Type 1: Remained aware of Doctor Strange's time loop, initially with some effort)

That only happened on the first reset and he realized after like 5 seconds, although it's true that the wording doesn't help

He will do it after he realises its not working.

The same with Dormammu

It probably does neg Aca 1. Doesnt matter as True Reset would make Dormammu forget the fight lol

So? After that they just start fighting again

 

[ShionAH]

That only happened on the first reset and he realized after like 5 seconds, although it's true that the wording doesn't help

Makes sense

The same with Dormammu

Alright I think the Low Godly comes from LOAD. Flowey who has no soul can load even after death

So? After that they just start fighting again

Its a hard reset. Dormammu is gonna be reset and forget the fight even exists as Asriel makes his way up to the battlefield and chill

 

[ShionAH]

Also can't Asriel nuke the dark world and exit? He can also reset if he is in the dark dimension

 

[RoTt35]

Alright I think the Low Godly comes from LOAD. Flowey who has no soul can save even after death

Wouldn't that be Time Hax instead of regeneration?

Its a hard reset. Dormammu is gonna be reset and forget the fight even exists as Asriel makes his way up to the battlefield and chill

And then Dormammu begins to consume the universe they were fighting in again since it is his sole purpose

Also can't Asriel nuke the dark world and exit? He can also reset if he is in the dark dimension

The Dark Dimension is a timeless void that is 2-B in size, and Dormammu has absolute control over it, wielding reality around him as he sees fit at a thought

 

[ShionAH]

Wouldn't that be Time Hax instead of regeneration?

Idk tbh that part is pretty iffy.

And then Dormammu begins to consume the universe they were fighting in again since it is his sole purpose

True Reset is a hard reset on the cosmology: Turns back time to the beginning of the game. In Flowey's case, it's possible this may take him way back before it, when he first woke up as a flowey or when he discovered his ability to SAVE and LOAD.

The Dark Dimension is a timeless void that is 2-B in size, and Dormammu has absolute control over it, wielding reality around him as he sees fit at a thought

Reset?

 

[ThanatosX]

Also can't Asriel nuke the dark world and exit? He can also reset if he is in the dark dimension

I will stay neutral for now, but I want to point out that if Dormammu drags Asriel into the Dark Dimension it's because he absorbed him or is about to absorb him, making him unable to nuke the dimension.

 

[ShionAH]

I will stay neutral for now, but I want to point out that if Dormammu drags Asriel into the Dark Dimension it's because he absorbed him or is about to absorb him, making him unable to nuke the dimension.

Reset? Or True Reset works then?

 

[RoTt35]

The problem is that Asriel's wincon is something he doesn't start with (True Reset), while Dormammu's wincon is his first move, absorb and merge everything (space-time, reality and Asriel himself) in the Dark Dimension, where he can warp reality at a thought, and into his own body

 

[ShionAH]

The problem is that Asriel's wincon is something he doesn't start with (True Reset), while Dormammu's wincon is his first move, absorb and merge everything (space-time, reality and Asriel himself) in the Dark Dimension, where he can warp reality at a thought, and into his own body

Asriels whole motive was TRUE RESET. He changed his mind because of frisk.

 

[ShionAH]

He wanted the Reset powers. Thats his goal then reset everything over and over again. Azzy FRA

 

[RoTt35]

You just told me that Asriel doesn't start with that, what's his first move?

 

[ShionAH]

You just told me that Asriel doesn't start with that, what's his first move?

He used Danmaku on frisk but if Dormammu kills or tries to absorb him then he will use it

 

[RoTt35]

He used Danmaku on frisk

Which would do nothing due to Dormammu's HDE

but if Dormammu kills or tries to absorb him then he will use it

By then it would be too late, as Asriel starts with Danmaku and Dormammu by absorbing and merging everything into the Dark Dimension. And Asriel wouldn't use Save and Load before the True Reset? That would give Dormammu a lot more options

 

[ShionAH]

Which would do nothing due to Dormammu's HDE

Thats why its more likely he uses his other hax.

By then it would be too late, as Asriel starts with Danmaku and Dormammu by absorbing and merging everything into the Dark Dimension. And Asriel wouldn't use Save and Load before the True Reset? That would give Dormammu a lot more options

If asriel realises he is hopeless he is gonna reset. In the second try he will know his danmaku doesnt work so he will probably either nuke the entire place wounding dormammu or bam true reset right on his big purple face

 

[ThanatosX]

The main problem is that Asriel doesn't start with True Reset, while Dormammu starts by absorbing the whole reality and everyone in it inside himself. This means that Asriel would be absorbed into Dormammu and his Dark Dimension, meaning that he can't nuke him or anything.
Regarding the Load and Save ability, there are some problems regarding that. First of all, Asriel wont die, he will just be absorbed into Dormammu, and from what I remember the Load and Save only activates after the death of the user. On top of this, Asriel never actually used it, so it would be OOC for him to use it at all. Then, there is also the fact that Load and Save can be used only on the load files "or timelines" that the character is able to reach, meaning that if he get pulled into the Dark Dimension it would be difficult for him to use it. Lastly, even if he uses it, there isn't really much that he can do to completely put Dormammu down because of his HDE, and even if he uses True Reset to reset the Timeline even before Asriel's birth, Dormammu would still exist and will still try to absorb everything since it's his whole goal.

He wanted the Reset powers. Thats his goal then reset everything over and over again. Azzy FRA

For now I will count your vote, but I will admit that the reasoning for Asriel's victory seems a bit iffy to me.

 

[ShionAH]

The main problem is that Asriel doesn't start with True Reset, while Dormammu starts by absorbing the whole reality and everyone in it inside himself. This means that Asriel would be absorbed into Dormammu and his Dark Dimension, meaning that he can't nuke him or anything.
Regarding the Load and Save ability, there are some problems regarding that. First of all, Asriel wont die, he will just be absorbed into Dormammu, and from what I remember the Load and Save only activates after the death of the user. On top of this, Asriel never actually used it, so it would be OOC for him to use it at all. Then, there is also the fact that Load and Save can be used only on the load files "or timelines" that the character is able to reach, meaning that if he get pulled into the Dark Dimension it would be difficult for him to use it. Lastly, even if he uses it, there isn't really much that he can do to completely put Dormammu down because of his HDE, and even if he uses True Reset to reset the Timeline even before Asriel's birth, Dormammu would still exist and will still try to absorb everything since it's his whole goal.

I will respond tomorrow heres the problems: you are saying asriel wont do this since he didnt do it on screen but dormammu never did it aswell. Both of their goals are their wincons but Asriels just seem more likely. Didnt dormammu also attack Strange in normal ways?? I dont remember him absorbinng strange

 

[RoTt35]

Thats why its more likely he uses his other hax.

But Asriel wouldn't know that his Danmaku would have no effect on Dormammu or that he has HDE so it would still be his first move

If asriel realises he is hopeless he is gonna reset. In the second try he will know his danmaku doesnt work so he will probably either nuke the entire place wounding dormammu or bam true reset right on his big purple face

There won't be a second try, as Asriel's first move is something that has no effect on Dormammu, while the latter starts with absorbing everything

I will respond tomorrow heres the problems: you are saying asriel wont do this since he didnt do it on screen but dormammu never did it aswell. Both of their goals are their wincons but Asriels just seem more likely.

Now you are being either dishonest or ignorant since I said twice, now three times, that the final plot of the movie is to try to stop Dormammu from absorbing the universe

Didnt dormammu also attack Strange in normal ways?? I dont remember him absorbinng strange

Doctor Strange entered the Dark Dimension on his own protected with an endless time loop using the Eye of Agamotto, and Doctor Strange literally had prior knowledge and preparation to face Dormammu, which Asriel doesn't

 

[RoTt35]

and even if he uses True Reset to reset the Timeline even before Asriel's birth, Dormammu would still exist and will still try to absorb everything since it's his whole goal.

That's true, both Dormammu and the Dark Dimension are older than time itself, so it's doubtful that the True Reset will do much effect