Asriel Dreemurr (Undertale) vs Dormammu (MCU) - 1/3/0

[RoTt35]

Dormammu FRA btw

 

[ShionAH]

I will respond tomorrow or you can call another UT supporter

 

[ShionAH]

But Asriel wouldn't know that his Danmaku would have no effect on Dormammu or that he has HDE so it would still be his first move

There won't be a second try, as Asriel's first move is something that has no effect on Dormammu, while the latter starts with absorbing everything

Now you are being either dishonest or ignorant since I said twice, now three times, that the final plot of the movie is to try to stop Dormammu from absorbing the universe

Doctor Strange entered the Dark Dimension on his own protected with an endless time loop using the Eye of Agamotto, and Doctor Strange literally had prior knowledge and preparation to face Dormammu, which Asriel doesn't

Asriels goal was to obtain the powers of Resets and TRUE RESET. Frisk was an obstacle. Their thing is very similar so I keeping my vote on asriel as theres also a chance of him being able to load after dormammu does his dormammu things

 

[SomaKing13]

Yeah this seems like a win for Dormy

 

[RoTt35]

Their thing is very similar so I keeping my vote on asriel as theres also a chance of him being able to load after dormammu does his dormammu things

So your vote is based on Asriel starting with something that isn't his first move and might have a chance to affect Dormammu before he absorbs everything which is his first move? There's also the doubt of whether the True Reset would really affect Dormammu since he is older than time itself

 

[ShionAH]

So your vote is based on Asriel starting with something that isn't his first move and might have a chance to affect Dormammu before he absorbs everything which is his first move?

His first move which he didnt do because of strange against Asriels first move which he didnt do because of Frisk. Its not hard to realise how simple this is. They are basically same

There's also the doubt of whether the True Reset would really affect Dormammu since he is older than time itself

That has nothing to do with True Reset. You still didnt prove Dormammu absorbing souls.

 

[RoTt35]

His first move which he didnt do because of strange

Can you stop using these arguments that you know are wrong just to misinform? Doctor Strange had prior knowledge, preparation and was protected beforehand with the Eye of Agamotto to face Dormammu, Asriel has none of that

That has nothing to do with True Reset.

It does, if the True Reset only resets time from before Asriel's birth it wouldn't have much effect on Dormammu since he's older than time itself, who would just continue with his goal of absorbing everything, and he hungers for Earth most of all, the place where the battle takes place according to SBA

You still didnt prove Dormammu absorbing souls.

Asriel can't resist his space, time and reality being absorbed and merged by Dormammu, plus him can also affect the mind and the essence

 

[ShionAH]

Can you stop using these arguments that you know are wrong just to misinform? Doctor Strange had prior knowledge, preparation and was protected beforehand with the Eye of Agamotto to face Dormammu, Asriel has none of that

Dormammu also doesnt have determination. Its the same situation for both of them.

It does, if the True Reset only resets time from before Asriel's birth it wouldn't have much effect on Dormammu since he's older than time itself, who would just continue with his goal of absorbing everything, and he hungers for Earth most of all, the place where the battle takes place according to SBA

Dormammu is gonna be reset back so he is gonna not know he is fighting anyone and Asriel win win in 24 hrs

Asriel can't resist his space, time and reality being absorbed and merged by Dormammu, plus him can also affect the mind and the essence

So he cannot effect the soul? Dormammu doesnt have a wincon if he cannot destroy asriels soul

 

[ShionAH]

Wait so you are saying dormammu not using his absorbtion was not because of stranges time loop?? Are you alright?

 

[RoTt35]

Dormammu also doesnt have determination. Its the same situation for both of them.

I don't know what that is or why it's important

Dormammu is gonna be reset back so he is gonna not know he is fighting anyone and Asriel win win in 24 hrs

It seems you didn't read anything, it doesn't matter if Dormammu doesn't remember since his purpose is going to be the same, absorb everything with Earth being his main objective. And again, this is assuming Asriel starts with True Reset because yes since it isn't his first move which might have a chance to affect Dormammu before absorbing everything, which is completely wrong

So he cannot effect the soul? Dormammu doesnt have a wincon if he cannot destroy asriels soul

And again you didn't read anything, Dormammu doesn't need to destroy Asriel, he just has to absorb and merge him with the Dark Dimension, and it seems you ignored the fact that Dormammu also has power over mind and essence

Wait so you are saying dormammu not using his absorbtion was not because of stranges time loop?? Are you alright?

Can you read? Dormammu had already started absorbing the universe when Doctor Strange entered the Dark Dimension, why do you think he entered there in the first place? There Strange was protected by an endless time loop who died countless times by Dormammu warping the reality of the Dark Dimension

 

[ShionAH]

I don't know what that is or why it's important

Its the whole reason Asriel couldnt do what he wanted to do. Reset and Nuke

It seems you didn't read anything, it doesn't matter if Dormammu doesn't remember since his purpose is going to be the same, absorb everything with Earth being his main objective. And again, this is assuming Asriel he starts with True Reset because yes since it isn't his first move which might have a chance to affect Dormammu before absorbing everything, which is completely wrong

Yeah you didnt read anything too. Dormammu didnt use his absorbtion on this level because strange did a time loop, Asriel never did the true reset and 2-B nuking because of Frisks determination. Its the same situation

And again you didn't read anything, Dormammu doesn't need to destroy Asriel, he just has to absorb and merge him with the Dark Dimension, and it seems you ignored the fact that Dormammu also has power over mind and essence

We dont know how essence works. LOAD can be done using the soul or it can be done even without the soul (Frisks soul literally shatters but they load)

Can you read? Dormammu had already started absorbing the universe when Doctor Strange entered the Dark Dimension, why do you think he entered there in the first place? There Strange was protected by an endless time loop who died countless times by Dormammu warping the reality of the Dark Dimension

I dont see why Stranges time loop and Save and load arent basically the same thing? So Dormammu absorbs cool and all but he cannot do shit to asriel because he has no feats destroying the soul

 

[RoTt35]

Its the whole reason Asriel couldnt do what he wanted to do. Reset and Nuke

That doesn't tell me anything

Dormammu didnt use his absorbtion on this level because strange did a time loop

Dormammu was literally absorbing the universe and reality itself until Doctor Strange used the Eye of Agamotto, who has prior knowledge and preparation to face Dormammu

We dont know how essence works.

Essence according to Google: the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, which determines its character

I dont see why Stranges time loop and Save and load arent basically the same thing?

Why would they be the same? And again, Doctor Strange used the Eye of Agamotto in a specific way because he already had prior knowledge and preparation to face Dormammu and his Dark Dimension

So Dormammu absorbs cool and all but he cannot do shit to asriel because he has no feats destroying the soul

So you're completely ignoring the fact that Asriel's space, time and reality will be absorbed and merged into the Dark Dimension and Dormammu having power over his mind and essence, with him being unable to resist any of that?

 

[ShionAH]

That doesn't tell me anything

Dormammu was literally absorbing the universe and reality itself until Doctor Strange used the Eye of Agamotto, who has prior knowledge and preparation to face Dormammu

Essence according to Google: the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, which determines its character

Why would they be the same? And again, Doctor Strange used the Eye of Agamotto in a specific way because he already had prior knowledge and preparation to face Dormammu and his Dark Dimension

Nothing here makes sense. Asriels save and load is basically a time loop and I explained why he didnt use his op hax first like dormammu

So you're completely ignoring the fact that Asriel's space, time and reality will be absorbed and merged into the Dark Dimension and Dormammu having power over his mind and essence, with him being unable to resist any of that?

Asriels soul is fine = Dormammu is ******

 

[RoTt35]

Nothing here makes sense.

It makes no sense in your own dishonest headcanon that you make up in each single match to misinform and confuse anyone who wants to vote, you have done the same shit in all the threads that I have participated in or seen

Asriels save and load is basically a time loop

Asriel doesn't start with that so it doesn't matter, and most important, Asriel doesn't have the same knowledge and preparation that Doctor Strange had against Dormammu and the Dark Dimension, so stop comparing apples to oranges

I explained why he didnt use his op hax first like dormammu

You didn't explain anything at all, you just said something about determination which I have absolutely no idea what it means

Asriels soul is fine = Dormammu is ******

Until you make a CRT to give Asriel immunity to Space-Time Manipulation, Reality Warping, Absorption, Fusionism, Mind Manipulation and whatever an essence is, your argument doesn't carry any weight

I'm done with this match since the arguments are just going in a endless circle, don't tag me to not receive notifications from here

 

[ShionAH]

It makes no sense in your own dishonest headcanon that you make up in each single match to misinform and confuse anyone who wants to vote, you have done the same shit in all the threads that I have participated in or seen

Asriel doesn't start with that so it doesn't matter, and most important, Asriel doesn't have the same knowledge and preparation that Doctor Strange had against Dormammu and the Dark Dimension, so stop comparing apples to oranges

You didn't explain anything at all, you just said something about determination which I have absolutely no idea what it means

Until you make a CRT to give Asriel immunity to Space-Time Manipulation, Reality Warping, Absorption, Fusionism, Mind Manipulation and whatever an essence is, your argument doesn't carry any weight

I'm done with this match since the arguments are just going in a endless circle, don't tag me to not receive notifications from here

Uh sorry also Asriel is getting mid godly Asriel is gonna stomp in the future so this can be closed

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Uh sorry also Asriel is getting mid godly Asriel is gonna stomp in the future so this can be closed

damn

 

[ThanatosX]

So, the Mid-Godly proposal was rejected and turned into a Low-Godly proposal, so nothing will change in this match since it was already assumed he had such degree of Regeneration, which means this can continue without any problem.
At this point, given everything that was said previously, I will vote for Dormammu.
Asriel will start with Danmaku, which wont work because of Dormammu's HDE, which will also nullify basically any of the haxes he might throw at him, giving Dormammu all the time he needs to absorb him and the reality in which they are fighting.
Asriel only possible wincon is True Reset, however there are some problems with it. First of all, he wont start with it as already point out, which gives Dormammu a huge advantage on that point. On top of this, even if he uses it, the result wont really change that much. Even if he reset everything at any point in time, even at the beginning of time, Dormammu will still exist without any problem since he is older than time itself, and considering that the Universe in which Asriel will be wont have any kind of magical protection to protection Dormammu, than the moment the True Reset finish he will just absorb the reality in which Dreemurr is in.
Now let's talk about how Asriel might save himself, and how even those wont work. First of all, the Low-Godly Regeneration will be nullified by the absorption since said ability absorb the essence of an individual into Dormammu by destroying their physical body, so his soul and body will be gone. If we wants to be generous and say that he can still regenerate throught his mind, which he never did anyways, than his mind will be corrupted too, turning him into a "Mindless One" just like he did with Kaecilius. All of this makes Low-Godly Regeneration useless to survive Dormammu's absorption. And even if we want to say that be will somehow regenerate, than Dormammu can absorb him again, and again, and again, incapacitating him since Asriel doesn't have feasible wincons apart nuking everything, which even than might not be a good wincon given Dormammu is basically a living 2-B structure since he have countless realities inside of himself.
Now, for the main stuff, the Save and Load ability. This ability have multiple factors against itself. First of all, Asriel will be absorbed into a timeless Dimension, which not only lacks any time, but it's outside of it entirely. Asriel's Save and Load works by controlling the timeline, going back to a previous point in time, but in this case there wont be any timeline, and time itself is not just destroyed but completely absent, making it doubtious if this ability will work.
If we want to assume that this hax will work regardless of time being present or not, there are other factors: Asriel never used Save and Load in the first place, and as such it is out of character to do so; that ability works only if he has save files available, which might not be the case in a place outside time; and lastly, this ability from my knowledge only work when the character dies, but in this case he wont die but be absorbed and become "part of the one", so the ability is even less likely to be activated in the first place.
Overall, I believe that Asriel doesn't have any feasible wincon in this apart from maybe nuking everything which is filmsy to say the least. Meanwhile, Dormammu have one, which is his first move in character and will also nullify and chance of Dreemurr to come back from it. So, I vote for Dormammu.

 

[ShionAH]

I guess then its a stomp if Asriels only wincon is gonna be done probably after danmaku gg dormammu

 

[ThanatosX]

Yeah, this is most likely a stomp. I will wait to see what others have to say, if there is nothing else to be added than this can be closed.

 

[TauanVictor]

Could Asriel's passive paralysis prevent Dorm from merging?

 

[ThanatosX]

Could Asriel's passive paralysis prevent Dorm from merging?

Dormammu's 4-D HDE would prevent that from working, unless the Paralysis have evidence of working against 4-D beings that are basically living Space-time continuums.

 

[Robo432343]

Could Asriel's passive paralysis prevent Dorm from merging?

thats useless against HDE

 

[StrymULTRA]

Some things are wrong here.

If we wants to be generous and say that he can still regenerate throught his mind, which he never did anyways,

Is now accepted so... L.

Asriel never used Save and Load in the first place, and as such it is out of character to do so

That's pretty bullshit, as the only reason why he didn't is because of Frisk's DT equating his own, stopping him from doing so. He has still the Flowey mentality before Frisk did Talk no Jutsu, meaning that he'll spam as hell Save and Load.

I don't care who wins, but pointing these out.

 

[ThanatosX]

Is now accepted so... L.

No need to say L, considering that when I wrote that post I already knew very well that the proposal was going to be accepted and that's why I added that part to say that even that wouldn't change anything since his mind will be corrupted too, nullifying any factor from which Asriel could regenerate.
However, this doesn't change that I find dumb the claim that he can regenerate from his mind when he never did so in the first place, and in general I don't agree at all with Regeneration of such degree for Undertale's characters, but I didn't intervene in the revision because I don't really like to put my nose in other verses revisions, even if I know about them since I have played Undertale in the past, and in general it would have been unfair by my part to try to prevent a revision to pass considering that this match was still going.

That's pretty bullshit, as the only reason why he didn't is because of Frisk's DT equating his own, stopping him from doing so. He has still the Flowey mentality before Frisk did Talk no Jutsu, meaning that he'll spam as hell Save and Load.

I remember Asriel blocking the Save and Load of Frisk, not the opposite. But whatever, I wont argue about this point since there are already numerous other factors that will prevent Asriel's Save and Load from working.

Anyways, if everyone agrees that this is a stomp I will ask for this to be closed.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I remember Asriel blocking the Save and Load of Frisk, not the opposite. But whatever, I wont argue about this point since there are already numerous other factors that will prevent Asriel's Save and Load from working.

Frisk and Asriel's DT were equal. The entire point of Asriel was to fight Frisk until the latter gives up against him and he regains control over the timeline.