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Mario Discussion thread

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Interstellar range is consistent with Yoshi launching Raphael the Raven.
 
Not sure how we can judge the values. Kirby's pretty high into 4-A because of the assumption Dark Nebula or whatever cleared a good portion of a galaxy out with his shockwave and I think that's the only reason, too.

However, if BJ with the Magic Paintbrush created those Secret levels and we give him that implied ability, it's likely pretty high in the range given I believe it would have the most stars from the creation feats. Sucks that it's only based on implications, though. Though that Dark Nebula feat has been argued to be teleportation so it wouldn't be the first time an assumption upgraded a verse.
 
He doesn't have much besides being a lot stronger than his baseline tier. And wish granting if we allow him with the Royal Stickers which certain characters like Bowser and Goomba need a key for. Speaking of Sticker Star, the battle spin should give Mario healing, can turn him into fire Mario, use a POW block, and shoot lighting, or...posion himself.
 
Also, here's another feat Mario can scale to that's used for 4-A. In Odyssey, Power Moons are used to fuel the Odyssey. Power Stars do the exact same thing, meaning we can scale them. Mario fights several enemies that have Power Moons and Mario himself never uses them to power himself up as they're only used to fuel the Odyssey. Yoshi can also shit out a Power Moon and Mario scales to Yoshi. Two more feats. Nice.
 
Here's the list of 4-A feats I can think of from the top of my head.

Paper Mario created a Starry Sky.

Mario can fight Power Star users which can create a pocket dimension full of stars.

Power Stars can absorb tons of stars to make huge constellations.

Mario can fight Power Moon users which scale to Power Stars.

Yoshi can create Power Stars.

Fought Bowser who can turn Yoshi's world into a pop up book with a starry sky.

Fought King Boo who can create 4-A realms. (Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon has several places with starry background, these are all likely created by King Boo as they have the exact same background as when he made the final stage in his boss battle.)

This one I'm 50/50. Shadow Mario possibly created the secret levels that have starry skies.

So that gives us 7, possibly 8 4-A feats. There might be a few I missed.
 
Creating Constellations is generally High 4-C unless there is more context such as the stars being multiple lightyears away. And kinda iffy on the Shadow Mario one, but the starry sky dimension feats are legit.
 
Here is the feat I was mentioning when talking about the constellations. You can see the Power Star absorb a ton of stars and then launch them back, using a few to make a constellation for Mario and can be done the same for other characters iirc.
 
Yeah, that was brought up, and I think we decided to only treat that as a High 4-C feat. But it is consistent as a range and speed feat at least.
 
I think they meant to put it as "Builder" lmao. On the same topic, I think Mario's power up images should be removed as there are so many left out and feel unnecessary. Similar to Kirby, only unique forms should be added.
 
There's tons of evidence that Bowser Jr. at least has some influence over the Secret levels. He directly causes the Goopy Inferna which is treated exactly like a Secret level, he always appears when you decide to enter a secret level on the first run, the scribblings of enemies, clouds, train and train tracks, airplanes, and all along with the building blocks, dice, nails, and colorful blocks lending toward the theme of a child's fantasy, the arcade theme and scribbles of Yoshi's Island in the backgrounds, his graffiti surrounding some of the secret levels and even a secret level's entrance directly being the source of the toxic water in Bianco Hills.

But yeah. Of course it's iffy. We don't have a direct statement, but as stated before, we've made worse assumptions with less evidence like Kirby somehow having EE resistance because of some vague crap and the 4-A from Dark Nebula being vague as well. It would also line up with Jr. stating it makes his wishes come true since this is clearly some reality warping/space-time manipulation at play if true.

Also, if we're equating Power Moons to Power Stars, then the big blocks of energy that scattered from the Moon and that Bowser could break are all made from the same material as Power Moons, or at least it's heavily implied via reading up on the "Moon Rocks" being energy made solid and literally bursting into many Power Moons in the postgame.
 
I might make a CTR eventually as I've stated before. However mine will only be about the upgrade and not abilities.
 
Yeah, Kirby has a lot more 4-A stuff, it isn't just "No Context but starry sky background." That being said, there have been plenty of 4-A feats that were never 4-A to begin with. But Magolar and Drawcia are both 100% legit.
 
Maybe 4-A, higher as Shiny Paper Mario? I think it works since he does very little damage to Shiny Bowser (was that his name?). He gains a massive boost in power.
 
I wasn't saying Kirby didn't have 4-A feats, just that it has vague feats that were accepted on that level.

Besides, Kirby's cosmology almost consistently has stars way smaller than actual stars. Drawcia only did her feat over time and with hax and Magolor is a huge ******* debate amongst Vs Debaters given how easily you could also claim he's galaxy-universal. We didn't accept universal Mario as consistent because Dreamy Bowser could be seen as universal at his lowest so why accept 4-A from a similar being who's power easily fluctuates between two people's interpretations? Star Dream was with the Halberd and Robobot Armor and he only showed the clarified spatial manip in the form that those are required in. Only possibly legit things done by base Kirby with no others or macguffins are maybe Magolor (debatable since Ultra abilities are needed for one instance) and the Sphere Doomers.

Plus, I'm just wanting more reason for Mario to be on the same general tier as Kirby again because as far as the verses go, they've always been close in power to me, with only Mario's god tiers beating Kirby out. And I know Mario's cosmology changes a lot but it's actually been shown to house life-sized versions of planets, stars, and galaxies mpre consistently than not and when it isn't it's mostly for graphical limitations and such.

Also Kirby's EE resitance is entirely vague. What ******* statement clarifies it erases things fron existence? It's just some vague wave that consumes portions of the map and even the wiki has nothing on a "Deletion Wave" like you guys interpret it. Hell, half of Kirby's wins come from using macguffins and new power-ups that aren't even that standard and/or require help like in Star Allies.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting a downgrade, but to at least treat that verse with the scrutiny we give other verses.
 
Yeah, you're right. My bad. I just wanted to point out the double standards and express my issues with how the wiki treats that verse.

I won't derail the topic any further.
 
Yeah, I can see that. I still think it's a notable ability but honestly this is why I have no real motivation to debate these things half the time.
 
Well, I don't think calcing something like that would yield very impressive results, but Ice Mario should still be no weaker than Base Mario; so Tier 4 obviously.
 
Yeah it's not really impressive in terms of AP, but it's still pretty cool that his ice can somehow freeze magic. Also I noticed several characters only have Pre-Stellar lifting strength when amped by Power Stars despite the fact that Mario wasn't amped at all when he held up the Power Star that contained a small black holes mass.
 
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