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Mario Discussion thread

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Mario and Luigi would still be Tier 4 even as babies. They trade blows with Princess Shroob and Elder Princess Shroob just as well as their older counterparts. And Baby Mario at least with a Power Star is shown to be well above Yoshi. All the baby Mario characters also have some of their own notable feats in Yoshi's Island DS as well.
 
I don't think a doctorate is enough for intelligence as high as extraordinary genius, just a rating of genius or at least gifted seems more in line with that.
 
Dust Collector said:
I don't think a doctorate is enough for intelligence as high as extraordinary genius, just a rating of genius or at least gifted seems more in line with that.
Click to expand...
Very high or gifted is fine u still gonna change bowsers page i still think that link you showed for bowser is pretty neat
 
I plan on making a CRT in the future to change his page once I'm finished with making my proposed updated profile.
 
Mario should at least be listed as a genius. He's a plumber, a carpenter, a skilled businessman, a physicist, an archeologist, an extraordinary doctor who invented pills that can instantly make even the sickest patient good as new, was able to fend off an alien invasion as a baby, and he also outsmarted archaeologists and scientists during his vacation to Pi'illo Island, solving the very mystery that left the aforementioned people scratching their heads. He's a vehicular master and an expert acrobatic and combatant. He's also a great historian due to his time travel experience.
 
His current intelligence section doesn't even mention that he is a doctor who created such extraordinary healing pills or that he outsmarted archeologists and scientists during his vacation. To quote TV Tropes:

Super Doc: Despite how much the fandom likes to joke about it, Mario is actually an incredibly capable doctor. The Megavitamins, the impossible cure-all pills that just need the right combination to make a patient good as new? He personally invented them.
 
Genius is basically Albert Einstein or Isaac Newton level, Extrodinary Genius is having the mind of a super computer, or being able to built super advanced technologies from scratch. And Super Genius is basically the ability to construct Tier 2 or above reality warping technologies from scratch in a short time frame. Being really smart in general without in depth context is simply Gifted.

However, I can see Mario and Luigi being geniuses. And I recall Wario actually has Extraordinary Genius intelligence feats.
 
Alright. Get ready for a wall of text.

Shadow Mario can literally burst into tiny particles of himself and form a ball of intangible energy/particles he uses to travel to other places and effectively teleport, so potential intangibility and maybe regen due to being able to just reassemble his particles into a solid form again?

He can also casually rest inside his graffiti which have life draining effects if you stand in them too long as well as/or simply are intoxicating and poisonous (albeit Mario's track record with poison even as recent as Odyssey shows a simple touch damages him, so it's probably not just poisonous) as shown by him being on top of the statue which previously was fully submerged in his graffiti. Said life drain abilities are also a good canonical explanation for why simply touching enemies in this game hurt Mario since they're all also made of the goop. His graffiti also can pull down objects and even terraform the environment as shown when a monster was on top of an area which sank into the ground and which rose back to its previous condition when it was beaten. Shadow Mario is likely immune to its incapacitation method of pulling people, buildings, and even the very ground it's on down into it as well, which could be a form of Sealing, which is supported even more by the fact that certain Shine Sprites, Blue Coins, regular Coins, and entrances to other places are sealed off by his paint, with the former items appearing out of thin air when you clean the paint up or fully reveal a hidden image with the F.L.U.D.D.

His graffiti can also turn Mario into tiny little balls of what looks like either paint or particles, much like how he can turn into tiny little balls as well, so possible physiology manipulation/genetic manipulation and molecular manipulation/matter manipulation for people who try and enter his portals? Shadow Mario can already shapeshift as he pleases, so the former wouldn't be too unbelievable at least, and it would make sense for Mario to be resistant to molecular manipulation or whatever that can be classified as since the portal brings him in, but he comes out the other end through reconfiguring his particles into a solid form again and does so again when coming out of the portal and even a cannon as well as when entering a level after being shot from one (which... how is he able to go back through the entrance of the portal anyways?). Either he manually does it, or again, the magic of the graffiti or whatever does it for him (unlikely given it happens even when a cannon shoots him somewhere as well as when exiting a cannon), and Shadow Mario can manipulate his own particles at will, so I dunno what this definitively could be, but worth a note, and it's also worth noting that turning into molecules would fit the tropical/water themes present throughout the game, and paint, or graffiti, can have a few water bases behind them. As seen here, Mario's deconstruction particles can be taken mid-transport and effect the outcome when he comes out on the other side, with Peach having the particles responsible for his mustache.

Graffiti MIGHT shrink objects that are particularly large, or simply just compress them, and if they get released, they stretch back and kinda grow back into place as shown by a few of the structures being released.

Shadow Mario can somehow intercept Mario when traveling through a white void (mid-transport) and these cutscenes play right before he enters voids of deep space with lots of stars around as well.

Shadow Mario's graffiti/magic brush was implied to be able to cut off Delfino Plaza's connections to Bianco Hills and Ricco Harbor according to a D.E.B.S. alert. There was also the fact the Shine Spites could keep the sky sunny and that the graffiti created a haze that stopped the sky from being as bright as it could be; possibly some form of making the clouds cover the sun (but you can look at the sky and the Sun is clearly shining, just the sky itself is just dark) or just simply a wide AoE effect akin to Darkness Manipulation maybe that enough pollution from his graffiti can cause.

The graffiti from the Paint Brush can also slowly regenerate over time from a source like a Gatekeeper or simply be spread from the other creations. Bosses like Petey Piranha can come back from turning into a puddle of goop and evaporating away albeit over time while other bosses like the Wiggler can literally have it's limbs fall apart in pieces but show up just fine in the boss fight.

As shown from files in the game, Shadow Mario was coded to have the ability to utilise Hydrokinesis to aid Mario in Co-Op, and this would tie in with him making the water ripple before opening the hatch that released Mecha Bowser as well as him likely being responsible for the "water-like deluge of rain" that flooded the Plaza along with his fluid, water-like appearance (not basing it on the non-canon thing, just treating it as added insight that shows that he likely does have Hydrokinesis as an intended ability to explain a few things that happen in-game), and if not, he or Bowser likely caused the volcanic trigger that sent the huge amounts of water as per some explanations; it's implied he did it, though, as they show you him right before zooming out to show you the flood and his music plays throughout the entire time the flood takes place.

According to the Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros., all the enemies and even the Yoshis of the game are derived from the scribblings of Bowser Jr., hence their weakness to water, as well as the slightly different appearance of enemies, so creation and life creation or whatever on an island-wide scale as well as scaling from being the creator of those enemies as potential abilities of his due to logically having the same properties as his goop. This is even supported in secret levels where scribbles on a wall has endless enemies of that type spawning from it, and shows that Shadow Mario's reach can extend to that of the Secret Levels which appear to be voids of space with multiple stars in some of them. It also likely supports the fact he created them as it fits with the fact the backgrounds are all toon-y or have a childish atmosphere to them as well as have to deal with 2D art scribblings along with Shadow Mario knowing when you enter them as well as the fact his graffiti that was polluting a lake was pouring out fron the entrance to one of these secret levels; this isn't the first time it happens either, as the tower in Rico Harbor also has black goop around the surrounding waters. There's also a little scribble of a cloud at the top of the train track space one as well as scribbles of planes moving around at the very top which is a HEAVY piece of evidence lending credence toward Shadow Mario creating these levels if the scribble train wasn't enough. Another piece of evidence is that these same things--trains, airplanes, tracks, and even building blocks, are seen in Bowser Jr. Playroom in Super Mario Sluggers. Some more evidence comes in the form of the Shine Sprites having scattered or been detained by Bowser Jr. and his creations, so it's possible these secret levels were Bowser Jr.'s way of mimicking his father's method of placing Power Stars in painting worlds to hide them away.

Since the bosses were creations of his, could there be possibly necromancy or soul manipulation going on given he likely created King Boo and the Boos in that game which are ghosts, and ghosts and undead repeatedly have been shown to possess souls. There's also the manta ray boss which is literally a shadow spirit thing as well as the wind enemies which are referred to as spirits in some translations. Since they're made of goop, it's possible he can camouflage himself and turn invisible as well due to being the creator of it all and having similar properties to the goop. Also illusion creation/shapeshifting for the Boos as they can turn into copies of Shadow Mario that simply stand there and serve to confuse others.

There are enemies called Wind Spirits or whatever in Sunshine which can suddenly form gusts of air sporting a pair of eyes that Mario can dispatch temporarily using F.L.U.D.D., so potential low-godly regen or maybe just an immortality dependent on an atmosphere (though both are weird since they can be dispatched and come back but will still eventually permanently die from a few things) as well as inorganic physiology for these things since they can just regenerate without the need of a physical form? Yoshi can negate this by eating them, albeit said Yoshi, much like the Wind Gusts, are said to be creations of Jr.'s. They can also eat Boos that can casually phase through walls (and Mario can kill these Boos with a stomp as well)

Shadow Mario in the Goopy Inferno swipes your F.L.U.D.D. mid-teleport, and by time you load into the level (which is like a few seconds later) you can see that he's already planted the F.L.U.D.D. by the mayor with a Red "M" underneath it to taunt you and is nowhere to be seen, so he can move freely in the rift where you're teleported and his travel method is seemingly quicker than yours, with it likely being a second or a few seconds at best for him in terms of how fast the transportation is (which he can seemingly control). The farthest location from Corona Mountain (where he's likely gomna be since that's where he heads after you beat Mecha Bowser) would likely net him possible reaction times (since he can clearly react and control his movements and acceleration while transporting) in the subsonic-transonic range, maybe supersonic-hypersonic at best (and this is ignoring the fact he can seemingly reach the Secret Levels which, if all of are a comparable size, would make it an easily FTL feat). As for supersonic-hypersonic stuff, Mario looks to catch on fire/produce flames when performing a Ground Pound from a certain altitude, so maybe more evidence for that?

According to this, his goop and polluted water (the Bloopers are made of black goop in Sunshine) can make a Pianta feel sick, though to another person the pink goop tasted like candy.

Shadow Mario's Rainbow Ms have the ability to showcase moving images of places in the world and even where people are in them according to the same comic above. This can sort of be seen in the game as well, as moving images of a level will cycle through the M-Portal when sprayed with water and you can even see Petey Piranha in it before you enter the level, I believe.

As for Shadow Mario intercepting Mario mid-teleport, a likely speed we can get would be thousands of times FTL to maybe millions if we use the distance of the nearest star as a measurement for how far he traveled since we can observe one star is particularly brighter (closer) than the rest, and if it were the Sun, we'd likely be seeing the planets around as well. Even if it was another dimension, there's an established travel distance that Mario goes through before reaching his destination and there's no way Mario in a teleport wouldn't have had to have traveled through the stars to get to the main course unless we assume it's instantaneous, in which case, Shadow Mario would be faster than instantaneous, which seems iffy, although there seems to be voids of white between these places which he's shown to be able to traverse at blinding speeds as well.

And then there's the fact that Shadow Mario himself is immune to everything but pressurized water from the F.L.U.D.D., which could be some form of Invulnerability? Granted I believe we were supposed to have gotten rid of characters with invulnerability as an ability due to how much it leans into game mechanics, NLFs, and inconsistencies.
 
Lol well I told y'all I had to compile it all together. May make a CRT on it later down the line or someone else can if they want but yeah.
 
Dino is usually quite busy, and has admittedly been super worn out by a lot of Mario threads. But he perhaps doesn't mind general discussions.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
And then there's the fact that Shadow Mario himself is immune to everything but pressurized water from the F.L.U.D.D., which could be some form of Invulnerability? Granted I believe we were supposed to have gotten rid of characters with invulnerability as an ability due to how much it leans into game mechanics, NLFs, and inconsistencies.
Click to expand...
This can be replaced with several resistances
 
So resistance to physical damage, then?

It also takes highly pressurized water since he can swim in bodies of water just fine without disintegrating unlike the Yoshis. He should probably be resistant to his other graffiti effects so getting shocked (electricity), burned (fire), being poisoned, maybe having his life drained, and maybe sealing as well since that fits what his graffiti does to objects the most along with making things super heavy and causing them to sink as well, which I dunno what that could be.
 
Honestly, I don't think the Yoshi's in Sunshine are like regular Yoshi's because most Yoshi's swim in water just fine.
 
Maybe. I might make an upgrade thread for the verse soon. Depands when I have the chance and the motivation to defend it.
 
I do know of a few more 4-A feats; there's the one from Yoshi's Story. He ate a fruit that gave him reality warping powers and turned Yoshi's Island into a pop up book. And said Pop Up Book also has a starry sky within it. And even when empowered, a single Baby Yoshi was able to beat an amped Baby Bowser. There's also the 4-A feat from Black Jewel; was initially decided not to scale to physical stats, but I think I recall Wario shattering said dimension upon defeating Black Jewel. I also know there are several more, but most of them a mid end feats of the power stars.

And speaking of Power Stars, the lore heavily implies the Lumas that turn into Power Stars are greater than the ones that turn into galaxies.
 
Baby Bowser wasn't actually amped or given reality warping powers by any fruit in Yoshis Story, he just did that feat under his own power. There's also Super Mario 64 where the Wiggler states he can see stars in the night sky while inside one of the dimensions the Power Stars create, so while we're not directly shown a full starry night sky in those dimensions we know that they exist due to that statement.
 
It was stated he stole the Super Happy Tree for its powers; but either way, it would still scale to Yoshi and in turn various Mario protagonists and main antagonists. But the Wiggler example yes is another supporting feat.
 
I'm pretty sure all that's said is that he stole it not that it gave him powers, not that it matters too much anyway since as you've said it would scale to everyone anyway.
 
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