Mario and Paint: Concept Manip PART II

[My_area]

Well, the black paint absorbed Bowser's paint and so his paint became part of the black paint. Huey absorbing it but Bowser showing up with it later is more support Bowser just simply gained it back somehow. It's a climatic ending cinematic of the battle (so being a gameplay element is iffy) that Bowser had his paint absorbed into the black paint attack. Once the color goes into the black paint there's nothing in the game indicating it can be brought back IIRC.

Its the same case with Koopalings,when they are defeated,they always have the paint back but they are defeated not dead which just gives indication that game is just being inconsistent with it or that their paint going down is just a hp indicator for the battle.Well during battle with Bowser,after black paint is gone half way Bowser does regain his consciousness for few moments before black paint takes over so it can be removed I suppose.

it's not a black color thing, mario by himself never restores the color of his enemies, and kamek is the proof of it.

the black paint absorbed bowser's color, and huey ended up wearing all the black paint, which includes bowser's own color.

True

bruh you are straight up ignoring the part where he had no paint, none at all and you can literally see non black paint going into the orb and you should knowif you have done it before, large amounts of black paint mixed with any other colour make more black paint so ofc when huey says that he absorbed all of the black paint it was right because there was no non-black paint left

Then why does Bowser act like as if the black paint has just been removed and as if his paint was never affected in the first place except his head hurts?I didn't ignore any points.Which doesn't make sense as to Bowser's reaction as if the black paint has just been taken away like his reaction when half of the black paint went down before black paint comes back.But Huey specially says that he absorbed all of black paint and not all paint which then points towards his paint never being taken in first place rather than Bowser randomly regenerating his paint while not even being aware of what happened.Literally nothing indicates that he regenerated the paint.Also Bowser having paint later on means he does have paint and not all of the paint is gone

 

[TUHTPeaSkull12]

in fact kamek's feat of then recovering his color can perfectly well be a support feat.

the problem is that all of bowser's color was absorbed by the black paint, and we have both an animation and a demonstration of a bowser without his color, including the fact that he was incredibly weak, which is very common for any object that loses its color.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I think you're being a bit too pedantic. Bowser's paint IS the black paint Huey absorbed. It became part of the black paint so Huey saying he absorbed it all also means Bowser's paint since it is now part of the black paint.

Him being dazed is probably because he has no idea what happened due to literally being possessed. Regen can be passive and sub-concious. In fact, I'd say it mostly is throughout fiction. So him needing to be aware of it or stating it is kind of a moot point.

 

[My_area]

in fact kamek's feat of then recovering his color can perfectly well be a support feat.

the problem is that all of bowser's color was absorbed by the black paint, and we have both an animation and a demonstration of a bowser without his color, including the fact that he was incredibly weak, which is very common for any object that loses its color.

What Kamek feat again?

And then Bowser just acts if his head is hurt and that he is reawakened after black paint being removed(with all of his paint being there) instead of unconsciously regenerating the paint and then become conciousness which makes no sense.Honestly I see no indication that Bowser regenerated his paint.Aside from Black paint(which has displayed abnormal properties) I dont remember paints ever regenerating anything.

This looks like same case with Koopalings who unlike Kamek after being defeated have full paint indicating that paint in their battle was indication of the hp in battle rather than literal hp in Kamek case.No indication that they regenerated either

I think you're being a bit too pedantic. Bowser's paint IS the black paint Huey absorbed. It became part of the black paint so Huey saying he absorbed it all also means Bowser's paint since it is now part of the black paint.

Him being dazed is probably because he has no idea what happened due to literally being possessed. Regen can be passive and sub-concious. In fact, I'd say it mostly is throughout fiction. So him needing to be aware of it or stating it is kind of a moot point.

I dont think so.Thats just black paint which Huey has absorbed which is why Huey just says all of black paint rather than all of his paint which is then again shown by Bowser still having all of his paint and then his behavior being similar to when half of the black paint is gone before it regenerates back.No indication that he regenerated the paint back and then act confused

Yes he has no idea of how the events transpired then how did he just suddenly regenerated his paint back?They can be passive and sun conscious(Pretty sure not mostly through fiction but I guess) but there is literally no implications of paints being regenerated passively while user is not even aware.It seems like its relying more on assumption claiming that he regenerated the paint while being unconscious then him not regenerating it.So its not moot point

 

[My_area]

Aside from regeneration which seems like us making up stuffs because its not explained,I think I agree with all of the other proposals

 

[TUHTPeaSkull12]

As you can see, basically the black paint makes bowser use all his colors as a final attack, once huey absorbs the black color, we can see bowser is now awake, which also supports that it was not the black paint that restored bowser.

also, for support, even the line art was left without color, indicating that there is no trace of bowser's color left.

 

[TUHTPeaSkull12]

I don't think it's a contradiction when most if not all the enemies in the game are defeated without color when mario finishes it, only kamek, the koopaling and bowser appear recovered with their respective colors.

kamek is for appearing at the end of the game with his colors back.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Also just realized that Bowser and Kamek (maybe Koopalings too) would get a limited resistance because while they can function without paint, they are very weak.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Though that brings up another point. Would being able to interact with paintless beings who lack concepts, souls, biology, and minds given all that paint makes up grant an ability? Like, would it be abstract maybe?

 

[TUHTPeaSkull12]

maybe abstract things, although it could also be a very good non-physical interaction.

 

[deonment]

Though that brings up another point. Would being able to interact with paintless beings who lack concepts, souls, biology, and minds given all that paint makes up grant an ability? Like, would it be abstract maybe?

npi

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm surprised Matt isn't here yet, but that may be for the better due to his volatile approach to convincing people

 

[TUHTPeaSkull12]

well, eventually all this will be summed up in a new publication and maybe with that eventually improve and add things that are missing to the mario profile in general.

 

[My_area]

As you can see, basically the black paint makes bowser use all his colors as a final attack, once huey absorbs the black color, we can see bowser is now awake, which also supports that it was not the black paint that restored bowser.

also, for support, even the line art was left without color, indicating that there is no trace of bowser's color left.

Yes,I am perfectly aware of this but it doesn't coorelate with reaction of Bowser with all of his paint back which is like when he lost half of the black paint,Him having paint just like Koopalings with also no indication that they regenerated back suggesting paint in this case is refering to hp like in battle with no evidence that paint has regeneration abilites aside from black paint just make the high godly regeneration more of a head canon rather than established fact in the series

Enemies are defeated without color and they go poof.Koopalings and Bowser still having color after being defeated with literally no indication to their paint being regenerated just makes it more doubtful that its simply isn't representing the battle hp in case of actual boss battle.

I don't think it's a contradiction when most if not all the enemies in the game are defeated without color when mario finishes it, only kamek, the koopaling and bowser appear recovered with their respective colors.

kamek is for appearing at the end of the game with his colors back.

Ehh I dont think high godly regeneration is necessary contradicted,its just not supported enough.It looks like that in case of boss battles except Kamek taking their colour off just means defeating their battle hp but they remain colorful in real life,just defeated aside from Kamek who is literally colorless after battles and cant even talk anymore

You mean during end scenes?

Also just realized that Bowser and Kamek (maybe Koopalings too) would get a limited resistance because while they can function without paint, they are very weak.

Kamek just able to talk a while before being knocked out,dont know if that warrants a limited resistance but I guess.For Bowser its arguable because it doesn't look like he is reduced paintless in the battle..when he has paint after battle

Though that brings up another point. Would being able to interact with paintless beings who lack concepts, souls, biology, and minds given all that paint makes up grant an ability? Like, would it be abstract maybe?

Abstract interaction? I guess yeah

 

[Garchomp777]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/mario-and-paint-concept-manip-2-first-half.115012/

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump. I think this is important

 

[ElixirBlue]

What has been discussed and more needs to be done? It has been a long while, admittedly.

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[ElixirBlue]

What has been discussed and more needs to be done? It has been a long while, admittedly.

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Well Mario and others would get really good NPI from being able to manipulate and interact with Paint. They already have it on their profiles but it should be stated that Paint is wayyyy more than your typical NPI.

As for the rest idk. Concept Manip is apparently still a debate, but the stuff like space manipulation, mind manipulation, healing, life manipulation, and poison, and I think a few others I'm probably forgetting were accepted

 

[ElixirBlue]

Would you like to get those that are accepted out of the way and continue those that are still in debate in another thread? I don’t think Garchomp777 is coming back anytime soon.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Would you like to get those that are accepted out of the way and continue those that are still in debate in another thread? I don’t think Garchomp777 is coming back anytime soon.

Garchomp is never coming back, but yeah, I think there's another thread

 

[ElixirBlue]

Garchomp is never coming back, but yeah, I think there's another thread

Chad Profile avatar

What about this thread? Finish it or ask for it to be closed?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I have no idea frankly

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Foxthefox1000]

What would you guys call altering something to behave like it shouldn't? Isn't this what a ton of profiles with concept manipulation base their reasoning off of? For Paint we see that extracting it from something makes that thing lose properties and functions it would normally have. Water is fluid and always running? It's a solid blank void now. Coins that blink away when collected are immovable blockades, the clouds in the sky stop moving, and space itself is suddenly physical without paint.

Paint isn't physical until it's extracted. It's an essence essentially which breathes life into the world.

Like I've said in the other thread, this HAS to be something. Some kind of ability. It shouldn't be ignored.

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Foxthefox1000]

After reading the concept manipulation thread I've read stuff that can definitely qualify this as concept manipulation. At the least Type 3 is def applicable.

And also if "Essence Manipulation" becomes a thing maybe Mario could be one of the big examples for it. But currently it fits the Concept Manipulation standards because it's altering the properties of existing objects and things such as Space and Paint itself can be found in everything and is responsible for how things work and function from life itself; the mind, body, and soul, to the very dimensional fabric of existence. Mario can manipulate this and use it to his benefit and as can other enemies.

If you really don't want to classify this as concept manipulation then at least let us discuss what other possible abilities can be applied instead of concept manip. Is it possible this is Information Manipulation? Or Subjective Reality?

The reason this has gone nowhere is because no one dares to bring up literally any other explanation for the applications of Paint in the more abstract sense.

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Foxthefox1000]

To clarify my point but make it more digestible, Paint itself IS the universal concept. It permeates reality (Paint being used to manipulate dimensions and spatial laws) and the removal of this from the world causes massive consequences like being unable to use a ship because it's stuck in place on what should be water but is now a blank white space, running waters halting and remaining still due to a patch being drained of paint, coins being unable to be picked up, Toads being left with Amnesia if their head was drained of paint or not feeling their legs if their legs were drained, space, water, lava, and even the air itself becoming white voids that are scalable, etc. It has a lot of applications due to the universal nature of Paint and how it exists in everything and affects them differently when removed or altered (like Roy making Mario experience various affects from an abundance of Paint or reviving fossils).

Paint makes up who you are as a person. It covers the mind and thoughts, blood, physical things like the body, the soul (undead enemies like Boos also have paint and die when drained), and you can't revive an object with a color that doesn't work. Mario is able to harness this universal life essence and utilize it in a few ways like adding Paint with the Hammer and removing Paint with his attacks.

Speaking of, Paint dictates behaviors and abilities too, as we've seen Mario and other are greatly affected by Paint, whether it's making one more tired and not able to perform certain attacks or altering their state of mind to such a point where it becomes impossible to do anything else not ascribed to what's conceptually viewed as tied to that color, like Blue equaling Sadness and Depression and stuff like that. Paint also is used for certain abilities themselves so the drainage of that makes someone unable to perform them.

Just saying, if this ain't Concept Manipulation then what is it?

 

[Luckyfun]

Merry Christmas bump

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Foxthefox1000]

It's a shame this isn't getting attention.