Maou Gakuin No Futekigousha Downgrade

[PrinceofPein]

In this thread, it was accepted that future crystal should be 2-A, and this thread is just to try and correct that
Here is the scan used to accept the future world as 2-A.
The first one
Which says

"When these eyes are opened, Naphta will see all the futures. All futures, all miracles, are in the hands of future god Nafta. From the gaps in your hands, the future of victory will spill out, even the possibility of resisting is gone.” She says naturally. "Some people die from catching a cold. Some fall and die. Everyone rolls the dice of God and lives in this world as a result. If you dare challenge Nafta, the worst day will come your way."

The second one

Kandakuizorte is the future itself. There is no way to touch the future.

Kandakuizorte, is the many futures of this world, that is equal to the shape of the world. Your action is to compare who will perish first, the world or yourself. The conclusion will be clearer than looking at the fire

Nafta swears. As long as the present is here, the future will revive over and over again even if it perishes. The only way to destroy Future World Crystal is to destroy all possibilities." The number of crystal fragments increases in a blink of an eye, like a shining sandstorm, it envelops this place. "This is possibility, the shape of another world. Sinner, I will punish you in the limited world

The third

God is order. The agent will be the same. The many futures seen by the future god Nafta, are constructed according to that order. No matter how much power she has, an orderly god cannot overturn an orderly future.

There is no such thing. If there is even one future where we can fly, that future will materialized, but there is no future where you can fly in this tree crown celestial sphere

There is no single future is decided. With the love of Nafta, there are infinite possibilities, and people hold hope in their hearts and seize a better future. Dragon Knights, don't be afraid"

Now these are what was used to claim that the crystal is 2-A, the crystal is what contains these infinite possibilities and can materialize them, but the thing is, the thing in the crystal are just possibilities and not actual worlds, the crystal can cause the possibilities to materialize in the actual world which is it job, now let me provide more contexts on this crystal.

Nafta is the God of Order of the future, and she holds this crystal that contains all possible future.
Here are the quotes

All futures, all miracles, are in the hands of future god Nafta. From the gaps in your hands, the future of victory will spill out, even the possibility of resisting is gone

"There is no such thing. If there is even one future where we can fly, that future will materialized, but there is no future

There is no single future is decided. With the love of Nafta, there are infinite possibilities, and people hold hope in their hearts and seize a better future

This literally said "materialized" it means they don't exist physically until you pick them, they only exist as a possibility.
but moving on

Nafta swears an oath. As long as the present is here, the future will rise again and again, even if it perishes. ＜The only way to destroy the crystal of the future is to destroy all possibilities

When these eyes open, Nafta will be able to see all the future. All the future that is to happen, all the miracles, are in the hands of Nafta, the god of the future. From the crevices of your hands, the future of victory will spill out, and even the possibility of resisting will vanish."

Some catch a cold and die. Some fall down and die. Everyone rolls God's dice and lives in this world as a result. If you challenge Nafta, your worst day will come upon you.

So practically she has precognition, now where the entire "infinite" shtick comes from is that she is able to use the crystal to form a future she wants, like for example when she formed the crystal and said anos will be unable to dodge the spear

He grabbed the crystal spear with his right hand and caught it.
Nafta predicted the future. "You didn't catch the spear."
　As soon as the god of the future uttered these words, the crystal spear, which I thought I had grabbed, slipped through my hand.
　I quickly jumped back, but the speed of Kandakui Zolte was slightly faster, and the tip of the spear gouged my stomach.
Prediction, huh? I see. It is true that once in a billion times, we may fail to catch it. ＜So the power of the Crystal of the Future Life limits us to that future.>

So as stated in the scan, the possibilities already exists in the crystal, now she has the power to limit anyone to any possibility of the future she wants

Also, when you are dragged into the crystal, everything inside the crystal is made up of crystals and not real world.

The shards of the crystal are growing in number and enveloping the place like a shining sandstorm.
It is another form of the world that could have been. I sentence thee, O man of iniquity, to the punishment of a limited world.
　As soon as the crystal sandstorm passed, the landscape changed.
　It was a strange city. Every building, every plant, every person was made of crystal.
　Even the mountains in the distance, the canopy in the distance, and the flowing rivers were made of crystal.
　I could feel tremendous magical power from each and every one of them.
Hm. A world made of candiquisorte.

It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain. A world made entirely of Crystals, creating the worst possible futures for whoever she traps inside. Later on she gains the ability to project the limited world in the real one for a short amount of time.
The world is essentially similar to a virtual one.

Aside the fact that if this was true, this means everything is branching out infinitely, that would mean there are uncountable infinite Anos existing somewhere in some timelines, Anos that are as strong as the current one and stronger even. And this current anos was able to kill all uncountable infinite of those anos.
Practically literally infinite timelines exists and infinite of those crystals exists and each also hold infinite timelines and like that, till you get to low 1-A, and to say the least there is no proof of that and it is just BS.


TLDR:

when you hold a die and you want to roll it, you can have either of the 6 outcomes as a possiblity, those 6 possibilities exists, but then cast the die and only one of those possibility is materialized, now nafta has the power to impose on the possiblity she wants and that is the one that becomes real.

they are possible futures not existing physical futures so the crystal is not 2-A but rather probability and causality manipulation. And the future is yet to come and not yet happening.

Agree: @Theglassman12, @Planck69, @Maverick_Zero_X, @LuffyRuffy46307, @Setsuna_tenma, @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara, @BestMGQScalerEver, @Georredannea15, @doqanxd, @KingNanaya, @Deagonx, @Trihexa102, @Maxeez, @1Nairove, @Lynieryz, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @The_Pink_God, @Bobsican, @Problemexe, @Nexp06, @Tarang123, @Delta333, @1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void
Neutral: @God900, @Quantu,
Disagree: @EldemadeDityjon, @Godsatoshi23, @ImmortalDread, @AKUTO123, @Shadowbeast @Aachintya31, @Robo, @YoPercy, @Fixxed

Also I will not respond to strawmanns, Thank you in advance.

 

[PainKiller07]

What will this affect I may ask, the L1C tiering?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

In this thread, it was accepted that future crystal should be 2-A, and this thread is just to try and correct that
Here is the scan used to accept the future world as 2-A.
The first one
Which says


The second one




The third




Now these are what was used to claim that the crystal is 2-A, the crystal is what contains these infinite possibilities and can materialize them, but the thing is, the thing in the crystal are just possibilities and not actual worlds, the crystal can cause the possibilities to materialize in the actual world which is it job, now let me provide more contexts on this crystal.

Nafta is the God of Order of the future, and she holds this crystal that contains all possible future.
Here are the quotes



This literally said "materialized" it means they don't exist physically until you pick them, they only exist as a possibility.
but moving on



So practically she has precognition, now where the entire "infinite" shtick comes from is that she is able to use the crystal to form a future she wants, like for example when she formed the crystal and said anos will be unable to dodge the spear

So as stated in the scan, the possibilities already exists in the crystal, now she has the power to limit anyone to any possibility of the future she wants

Also, when you are dragged into the crystal, everything inside the crystal is made up of crystals and not real world.

It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain. A world made entirely of Crystals, creating the worst possible futures for whoever she traps inside. Later on she gains the ability to project the limited world in the real one for a short amount of time.
The world is essentially similar to a virtual one.

Aside the fact that if this was true, this means everything is branching out infinitely, that would mean there are uncountable infinite Anos existing somewhere in some timelines, Anos that are as strong as the current one and stronger even. And this current anos was able to kill all uncountable infinite of those anos.
Practically literally infinite timelines exists and infinite of those crystals exists and each also hold infinite timelines and like that, till you get to low 1-A, and to say the least there is no proof of that and it is just BS.

Aside the fact that these are not actual timelines or existing physically, even if they were, based on the new standards

None of these timelines are disconnected for infinite time meaning for tiering purpose they will be low 2-C.

TLDR: they are possible futures not existing physical futures so the crystal is not 2-A but rather probability and causality manipulation. And the future is yet to come and not yet happening.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

Also I will not respond to strawmanns, Thank you in advance.

I really agree with that, it's about time someone did it right, thanks for your work.

 

[Maxeez]

Oh boy, I sense that there will be a lot of bloodshed here.

 

[Malekith]

This literally said "materialized" it means they don't exist physically until you pick them, they only exist as a possibility.
but moving on

Not necessarily materializing indicates that it doesn't exist, just that it's not there at that moment. I remain neutral waiting for the most knowledgeable of the verse, following the MG CRTs is interesting

 

[God900]

In this thread, it was accepted that future crystal should be 2-A, and this thread is just to try and correct that
Here is the scan used to accept the future world as 2-A.
The first one
Which says


The second one




The third




Now these are what was used to claim that the crystal is 2-A, the crystal is what contains these infinite possibilities and can materialize them, but the thing is, the thing in the crystal are just possibilities and not actual worlds, the crystal can cause the possibilities to materialize in the actual world which is it job, now let me provide more contexts on this crystal.

Nafta is the God of Order of the future, and she holds this crystal that contains all possible future.
Here are the quotes



This literally said "materialized" it means they don't exist physically until you pick them, they only exist as a possibility.
but moving on



So practically she has precognition, now where the entire "infinite" shtick comes from is that she is able to use the crystal to form a future she wants, like for example when she formed the crystal and said anos will be unable to dodge the spear

So as stated in the scan, the possibilities already exists in the crystal, now she has the power to limit anyone to any possibility of the future she wants

Also, when you are dragged into the crystal, everything inside the crystal is made up of crystals and not real world.

It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain. A world made entirely of Crystals, creating the worst possible futures for whoever she traps inside. Later on she gains the ability to project the limited world in the real one for a short amount of time.
The world is essentially similar to a virtual one.

Aside the fact that if this was true, this means everything is branching out infinitely, that would mean there are uncountable infinite Anos existing somewhere in some timelines, Anos that are as strong as the current one and stronger even. And this current anos was able to kill all uncountable infinite of those anos.
Practically literally infinite timelines exists and infinite of those crystals exists and each also hold infinite timelines and like that, till you get to low 1-A, and to say the least there is no proof of that and it is just BS.

Aside the fact that these are not actual timelines or existing physically, even if they were, based on the new standards

None of these timelines are disconnected for infinite time meaning for tiering purpose they will be low 2-C.

TLDR: they are possible futures not existing physical futures so the crystal is not 2-A but rather probability and causality manipulation. And the future is yet to come and not yet happening.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

Also I will not respond to strawmanns, Thank you in advance.

So Nafta will turn Low 2-C if this downgrade passes, I suppose?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

What will this affect I may ask, the L1C tiering?

Yes.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

 

[PrinceofPein]

What will this affect I may ask, the L1C tiering?

I do not know about that, but I think it makes it -1D, so 5D or so

Not necessarily materializing indicates that it doesn't exist, just that it's not there at that moment. I remain neutral waiting for the most knowledgeable of the verse, following the MG CRTs is interesting

It means it does not exist physically or has not happened
the meaning of materialize is
"become actual fact; happen."
Cambridge has it
"to become real or true"
Collins has it
"to give material form or characteristics to; represent in material form "
Dictionary.com has it
"to come into perceptible existence; appear; become actual or real; be realized or carried out:"

OP of the previous thread is that these futures have happened already and already in their own timeline somewhere.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So Nafta will turn Low 2-C if this downgrade passes, I suppose?

Anos will also be 2-C?

 

[Malekith]

I do not know about that, but I think it makes it -1D, so 5D or so

It means it does not exist physically or has not happened
the meaning of materialize is
"become actual fact; happen."
Cambridge has it
"to become real or true"
Collins has it
"to give material form or characteristics to; represent in material form "
Dictionary.com has it
"to come into perceptible existence; appear; become actual or real; be realized or carried out:"

OP of the previous thread is that these futures have happened already and already in their own timeline somewhere.

If you take your conception exactly as it is in the dictionary, that's really it, but there are cases where materializing can have different meanings, anyway it was just for you to see the word from another point of view.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I agree, and good luck with this.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

If the possibilities or futures don't exist as actual structures or timelines while existing as just possibilities/futures and would not be separate space-times even if that was the case, then yea I agree. Might change what I think depending on what other people bring up and if sufficient enough.

 

[God900]

So, Nafta will be downgraded to Low 2-C?

Btw, I'm neutral for now, would like to see more arguments from both sides

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Anos will also be 2-C?

Pretty sure the silver sea layers would still be 2-A and probably just be 5D instead of 6D.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Funny thing Pain ignored the fact NAFTAs future world is a Seperate realities which has nothing to do with real world where Anos exists. If thats really real world then why didn't real world gets erased when Anos destroyed the future world. Asking about Anos destroying infinite number of himself is stupid.

Anyway Disagree with the thread.

 

[Deceived3596]

Artistic illustration of the average Maou Gakuin fan viewing the #59674864 downgrade thread about their verse this week.

 

[Robo432343]

disagree fra

 

[RaveeCPN]

Following

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Disagree fra

 

[Georredannea15]

I agree, I have always argued that the silver sea is 5D. Someone had to do this. Watch out for Anos fans.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Many of the proofs above indicate unrealized possibilities of realities, not realized ones.
But we still don't know if it's just an unrealized possibility or realized one, considering Anos destroys the future and it is still unaffecting the entire worlds.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Pretty sure the silver sea layers would still be 2-A and probably just be 5D instead of 6D.

So it looks good

 

[Quantu]

I'll stay neutral for now, but damn MGK fans are going through it this week...

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

So it looks good

Apparently it might just be 2-A instead of low 1-C.

 

[Reiner04]

I've got a bit of problems with this thread.

What does the scan mean when it states to destroy the future world crystals one needs to destroy all of possibilities? Because the same scan says even if you destroy the world future worlds will still exist, that won't be possible if there is only one world.

The way I see it is that Future of the main Timeline is not decided and gets materialised based on interaction with future at any given moment but that doesn't mean other futures which are different timelines and not the future of main timelines doesn't exists.

It's exactly how I can interpret it as it's kinda or I may say entirely what Ben 10 does (whataboutism but just as an example).

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I've got a bit of problems with this thread.

What does the scan mean when it states to destroy the future world crystals one needs to destroy all of possibilities? Because the same scan says even if you destroy the world future worlds will still exist, that won't be possible if there is only one world.

The way I see it is that Future of the main Timeline is not decided and gets materialised based on interaction with future at any given moment but that doesn't mean other futures which are different timelines and not the future of main timelines doesn't exists.

It's exactly how I can interpret it as it's kinda or I may say entirely what Ben 10 does (whataboutism but just as an example).

I am pretty sure Pain infinite Anos arguments were debunked in previous threads. Pretty sure that was @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless who Debunked that 1A bullshit.

 

[Fixxed]

This is funny because the scan literally say "all future are CONSTRUCTED by order"

And the other scan literally say "this is possibility, the SHAPE of another world"

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Apparently it might just be 2-A instead of low 1-C.

this is even better

 

[Fixxed]

Aside the fact that if this was true, this means everything is branching out infinitely, that would mean there are uncountable infinite Anos existing somewhere in some timelines, Anos that are as strong as the current one and stronger even.

And what is this uncountable infinite

 

[Linkbtw93]

yum I like it

 

[Georredannea15]

This is funny because the scan literally say "all future are CONSTRUCTED by order"

And the other scan literally say "this is possibility, the SHAPE of another world"

Building all futures in order doesn't mean anything. And it's not saying that futures are the shape of other worlds LMAO

 

[PrinceofPein]

Funny thing Pain ignored the fact NAFTAs future world is a Seperate realities which has nothing to do with real world where Anos exists. If thats really real world then why didn't real world gets erased when Anos destroyed the future world. Asking about Anos destroying infinite number of himself is stupid.

Anyway Disagree with the thread.

1. Bring your proof they are a separate reality, when it is literally the possibility of the future, how are they separate realities if they are what the characeters does the next moment, or you do not know what branching timelines mean?
2. The world did not get erased cause what anos destroyed was possibilities. it is not hard to figure it out. And if I am to destroy all possibility of the future, the world gets destroyed

I've got a bit of problems with this thread.

What does the scan mean when it states to destroy the future world crystals one needs to destroy all of possibilities? Because the same scan says even if you destroy the world future worlds will still exist, that won't be possible if there is only one world.

Nafta swears an oath. As long as the present is here, the future will rise again and again, even if it perishes. ＜The only way to destroy the crystal of the future is to destroy all possibilities

there you go, now check my message to fixxed.
I do not get the last part of your message

The way I see it is that Future of the main Timeline is not decided and gets materialised based on interaction with future at any given moment but that doesn't mean other futures which are different timelines and not the future of main timelines doesn't exists.

there is no different timeline.
Bring the scan of different timelines I will wait, all they have is the crystal which is supposed to contain this timelines.

It's exactly how I can interpret it as it's kinda or I may say entirely what Ben 10 does (whataboutism but just as an example).

Ben 10 has statements and prove of other timelines, these one those not, stop with the false equivalence

This is funny because the scan literally say "all future are CONSTRUCTED by order"

Yes and? does not change a thing I said, order is what contruct the future, the future has not come.

And the other scan literally say "this is possibility, the SHAPE of another world"

Yes and that other world is the world of crystal that anos got dragged into. that is the full context here

As soon as the crystal sandstorm passed, the landscape changed.
It was a strange city. Every building, every plant, every person was made of crystal.

　Even the mountains in the distance, the canopy in the distance, and the flowing rivers were made of crystal.

　I could feel tremendous magical power from each and every one of them.

Hm. A world made of candiquisorte.

Nafta swears. Nafta swears to you that this world will be limited so that everything will turn out for the worst for you. Your victory will not be chosen in this world.

Interesting. You have to have at least one world to reach me.

　I looked at him calmly and said.

Come on, future. Challenge me.

　At the same time as I said these words, the ground shattered into pieces.

　＜Floating in the air, countless crystal spears flew out of the huge hole.

　　＜Floating in the air with a flying freshet, countless crystal spears flew out of its tremendously huge hole.

　＜I tried to block the hole with my "Four Walls of Beno Even," but the crystal spears easily slipped through it and pierced me.
The next moment, crystal spears appeared from the surrounding buildings.

　Crystal spears also appeared from the canopy above my head, and they shot out from above, below, right, and left all at once.

　One after another, the spears shredded my body. The clock tower in front of me floated in the air as if it had been detached from the building, and its sharply pointed roof plunged down on me.

　Countless crystal spears bound my body, and the clock tower's spear thrust into me with such force that it almost crushed me.

　A large amount of blood dripped from my entire body.

'I haven't bled this much in a long time.

　The crystal crystals around the clock tower and the crystal spear were rusted and crumbled by the Black Demon King's blood.

　All that remained was black rust.

You said it was all going to end badly for me. The worst day of my life is about to hit me.

　Holding up his hand, he drew multiple magic circles.

　I held up my hand and drew multiple magic circles.
You are very powerful, Nafta said. But if you are so powerful, then I have magic I can use too.

　Black particles flowed out of the turret of the magic circle.

Miracles will befall you. I sentence you to despair."

　Once again, countless crystal spears strike me, but as soon as they touch the black particles that surround me, they shatter into pieces.

　Fire, water, lightning, earth, trees, canopies, and everything else attacked me.

　It was like a miracle.

　However, I could not resist everything in the world that was baring its fangs at me.

I borrowed magic power from the tyrannical demon king Anos Voldigord, the creator god Militia, and the destroyer god Averniou, 2,000 years ago through origin magic.

On top of that, I add my own current magical power to it.

It's a forbidden spell that can't be used in any normal place. I myself have only used it twice.

　Jet-black particles swirl like living creatures and entangle the turret of the magic circle.
In the aftermath, the surrounding crystals shatter and break into pieces.

　The world of crystals began to crack and collapse.
The crystal world began to crack and disintegrate. If you unleash this magic, at the very worst, the world of Kandakuisorte will be destroyed.

And what is this uncountable infinite

What your claim entails, each world will have a crystal that contains infinite other crystals who contains each other, infinitely

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

1. Bring your proof they are a separate reality, when it is literally the possibility of the future, how are they separate realities if they are what the characeters does the next moment, or you do not know what branching timelines mean?

If you didn't nitpicked certain lines you would have known that's a different Reality

"So open your divine eyes and restrain it properly. As soon as I release this spell, even in the worst case, the world of Kandaquisort will be destroyed."
I said to the goddess of the future, who looked at me stunned and without words.
"If you can't limit it, the real world will turn to ash along with it."
The black particles form a seven-layer spiral around the gun turret.

Anos literally states if Nafta doesn't hold back EGA along with future world real world also gets erased. If both are same there is no point in saying that

2. The world did not get erased cause what anos destroyed was possibilities. it is not hard to figure it out. And if I am to destroy all possibility of the future, the world gets destroyed

What? Keep ignoring that's a reality which existed physically.

"This could be another form of the world. Condemned, you are sentenced to a limiting world."
As the crystal sandstorm dissipated, the landscape around us changed.
We were in a strange city. All the buildings, vegetation, and inhabitants were made of crystal.
The mountains visible in the distance, the heavenly canopy, and even the flowing rivers were crystal.
And from all this I felt unimaginable magical power.
"A world created by Kandaquisort, then?"

Does this looks like Anos only destroyed a Possibility? Wow.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

What? Keep ignoring that's a reality which existed physically.


Does this looks like Anos only destroyed a Possibility? Wow.

The text here literally says it could be another form of the world. Not that it is already a world. It's exactly what Pein is talking about, where these futures don't exist as realities until they're physically manifested (like we see in your scan).

 

[Georredannea15]

If you didn't nitpicked certain lines you would have known that's a different Reality

Anos literally states if Nafta doesn't hold back EGA along with future world real world also gets erased. If both are same there is no point in saying that

What? Keep ignoring that's a reality which existed physically.


Does this looks like Anos only destroyed a Possibility? Wow.

I don't want to get involved, but I still don't see that the possibilities and futures represent different worlds here.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Disagree with OP.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The text here literally says it could be another form of the world. Not that it is already a world. It's exactly what Pein is talking about, where these futures don't exist as realities until they're physically manifested (like we see in your scan).

It didn't said anything about they didn't existed. That's pain problem to prove not mine. Even WOG states EACH gods has a Realm and future realm physically exists. If that doesn't exists then there will no future for the world.

 

[Reiner04]

there is no different timeline.
Bring the scan of different timelines I will wait, all they have is the crystal which is supposed to contain this timelines.

And the other scan literally say "this is possibility, the SHAPE of another world"

If there is already "Another world" regardless if one gets dragged into it by any means itself says that it is different from "Current World"

The world has been compared to a Tree where possibilities are just branches in it, one of Most straightforward way to represent MWI aka world of possibilities where future is undecided until you meet it.

There is no such thing. If there is even one future where we can fly, that future will materialized, but there is no future where you can fly in this tree crown celestial sphere

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It didn't said anything about they didn't existed. That's pain problem to prove not mine. Even WOG states EACH gods has a Realm and future realm physically exists. If that doesn't exists then there will no future for the world.

Do you have the scans for that?

Also, if we literally see a world being created, it's only logical to say it didn't physically exist before that moment.