-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Making Speed Equalized matches unaddable to files
- Thread starter The_Impress
- Start date
- Status
- 30,036
- 31,245
I didn't think about the fact that we had speedsters, but looking at the category. That tells me some of the characters have the category inappropriately. In order to qualify as a speedster, they need to be known as the type of fighter who is primarily known for their speed as opposed to any other statistic or ability. Characters like Flash, Dyspo, Sonic, and Quicksilver easily qualify, but I noticed various versions of Superman have it despite speed not specifically being something he's known for compared to his superhuman strength, durability, heat vision, ect. And no Dragon Ball character other than Dyspo or perhaps Burter should really qualify in that regard.
And Planck makes a good point, even the speedsters category seems a bit controversial.
And Planck makes a good point, even the speedsters category seems a bit controversial.
- 10,502
- 11,573
Would need us to be more selective with that category, though. Many characters in it have no business really being there, like Sanji or Happy.
In the first place, it would be very subjective. Like, IMO Saitama and Superman aren't exactly speedsters. They are fast, but mostly all-rounders. I think people would disagree with me on that, though. The subjectivity of the subject might make this very controversial when applied.
- 4,677
- 993
I think it's worth cleaning up the category in general, but particularly in regards to if we would use it for this.
I think there's a compromise on that track somewhere, and so long as the idea's in circulation someone might find it. But as long as there are only 2 options on the table, it's obviously better to keep speed equal matches around.
I think there's a compromise on that track somewhere, and so long as the idea's in circulation someone might find it. But as long as there are only 2 options on the table, it's obviously better to keep speed equal matches around.
- 9,998
- 5,218
Actually, Ed is very much onto something.
Cleaning up the Category so that only characters who are mostly known for their high speed are found within, and then locking them out of qualifying for speed equal matches, is definitely a route I am willing to take.
Cleaning up the Category so that only characters who are mostly known for their high speed are found within, and then locking them out of qualifying for speed equal matches, is definitely a route I am willing to take.
- 165,173
- 72,105
That seems reasonable to me.
What about my earlier suggestion to make a brief mention in our rules that matches that are both not speed-equalised and not stomps, at the same time, are preferable to speed-equalised matches, if our members can find workable examples?
What about my earlier suggestion to make a brief mention in our rules that matches that are both not speed-equalised and not stomps, at the same time, are preferable to speed-equalised matches, if our members can find workable examples?
- 9,998
- 5,218
I already gave my approval of adding the note in the rules earlier.
- 165,173
- 72,105
It is not realistic to apply at the moment, especially given that the code for the speed levels is so frequently sloppily/inconsistently formatted.
Last edited:
- 8,678
- 5,556
I'd rather just remove the Speedster category.
Anyways, just... no. Everyone else has already put forth the good arguments for this. Just eliminates so many matches. I've, in the past, supported the idea of just making speed equalization bring speed to the same ballpark, with the faster character still being a bit faster, but people always disagreed with this so whatever.
Anyways, just... no. Everyone else has already put forth the good arguments for this. Just eliminates so many matches. I've, in the past, supported the idea of just making speed equalization bring speed to the same ballpark, with the faster character still being a bit faster, but people always disagreed with this so whatever.
- 29,791
- 24,868
Personally I too would support removing the Speedsters category.
- 8,678
- 5,556
See, this is really funny, because Dyspo isn't really anywhere close to the fastest in DB and Burter, who you mentioned later, is laughably slow even in the context of the Ginyu arc alone. If these are characters who can get into the category, nuke the category.
- 9,998
- 5,218
Eh, I feel neutral about removing the Speedsters Category.
Do it or not, I'm not too attached with it.
Do it or not, I'm not too attached with it.
- 5,046
- 2,537
Well, if the Speedster category has problems in regards to the subjective perception of what a speedster is, then it might be better to remove it since making rules for that would be rather troublesome especially if we aren't actually gonna use it for anything.
- 8,678
- 5,556
I also feel like making an exception for this category will encourage people to misrepresent characters as speedsters so they can have speed unequalized matches and thus get a sizeable advantage.
- 5,046
- 2,537
You can already have speed unequalized matches and speed stomps aren't allowed to be added to profiles as far as I'm aware.
- 8,678
- 5,556
Yes, but this would make speed unequalized matches necessary for these characters, and speed may not necessarily lead to a stomp, just a big advantage.
- 5,046
- 2,537
Matches where characters have a big advantage are allowed as long as they aren't stomps if I'm not wrong. People could have the speed unequalized matches either way.
- 19,616
- 15,969
While that is a meme, it would allow for matches like, idk, Kengan Asura vs DB since it becomes more about skill and ability rather than pinch harder.
- 5,046
- 2,537
That does sound interesting to me.
- 8,678
- 5,556
The issue is dishonesty in how characters are presented.
I'm against stat equalization and still think that a good solution would be making speed equalization simply bring characters to a similar speed range.
- 4,677
- 993
I think the issue of speedsters not being the fastest in their verse is kind of missing the point. They're characters where speed is the entire focus, and thus what people are more likely to want to discuss/ make use of in a thread. If they were always faster than their opponents it would be kind of boring, in verse and in threads.
The speedster category as it currently is is garbage, yes, but it can be fixed if necessary, and deleted if not.
The speedster category as it currently is is garbage, yes, but it can be fixed if necessary, and deleted if not.
- 8,678
- 5,556
Just bring speed to a similar range, with the faster maintaining the speed advantage.
- 5,046
- 2,537
Oh, so you mean people are going to focus more on the speed advantage if the speedster category gets special treatment? Sounds like a mostly psychological matter to me but I guess that can indeed be an issue.
- 10,272
- 2,754
I could clean the speedster category and remove the obvious unqualified. Make the text for the category more exclusive.
- 4,022
- 3,703
Just looking at this thread, I think there seems to be a big disconnect here between the staff and vs debaters here on this site. The fact that a large portion of us seem to not care makes me think that maybe we're not the best to make any decisions on this. Vs matches, are a cornerstone of the site I think, they offer up a lot of community engagement and generally helps to just keep all of this fun. And for some, they're the main reason or only reasons why they engage here. So if we're going to propose a big change exclusively to that section of our community, they should have a much bigger say.
Maybe a poll should be made to see where people go on this issue and from there we can better implement how to go about all of this. That's pretty much what I think about all of this.
Maybe a poll should be made to see where people go on this issue and from there we can better implement how to go about all of this. That's pretty much what I think about all of this.
- 165,173
- 72,105
What do you think about this option, Promestein? I think that it seems like a good solution.
We are not going to remove the speed-equalised matchups. We have to finance this forum somehow.
You still have a good point regarding that we should not destroy the fun of this place for our regular members though.
- 11,801
- 7,363
- Thread starter
- #111
I don't mind this suggestion actually, where faster characters are assumed to be 2x or something vs. the slower ones for matchmaking purposes.
It's still true to their original depiction in SOME realm.
- 8,678
- 5,556
I don't think it is, because not every example is going to obviously qualify or not.
- 3,064
- 2,471
My sentiments exactly, I don't really see the point in removing them, they're still matches in which one character won and that's that.
- 5,554
- 2,327
I haven't read the whole thread (although I doubt that I need to), I would guess that pretty much everyone disagrees with it.
But in my opinion, the OP has a point. Purposefully gimping characters for completely arbitrary reasons, and then them winning, is in no way shape or form a "notable" victory that should be recorded on the profiles.
However, as I mentioned, I highly doubt that anyone agrees with this so I'm not planning on dying on this hill.
But in my opinion, the OP has a point. Purposefully gimping characters for completely arbitrary reasons, and then them winning, is in no way shape or form a "notable" victory that should be recorded on the profiles.
However, as I mentioned, I highly doubt that anyone agrees with this so I'm not planning on dying on this hill.
This however is an important issue that needs to be discussed. But I don't think this is the thread for that, as I don't think anyone would be interested to debate it after reading most of the controversial OP and title.
- 11,801
- 7,363
- Thread starter
- #117
I mean honestly I've kinda retracted the initial attempt, because I did sorta forget, we're no longer a FANDOM operation anymore and thus can't risk alienation. I CAN try and address certain points, and believe me some of them given are genuinely nonsensical, but it's pointless now noting context.
I still believe Prom's suggestion is worth discussing as an alternative though, since I'd be willing to compromise to that if nothing else.
I still believe Prom's suggestion is worth discussing as an alternative though, since I'd be willing to compromise to that if nothing else.
- 7,856
- 2,765
I'm neutral
- 30,036
- 31,245
I remember when someone made a category for badasses; which while not offensive, is even funnier because that's just 100% opinionated and cannot be presented in any unbiased way. Speedsters is pretty much the same. And yes, they're not the fastest by any sense of the word. Only that among their peers their fighting styles consist of speed over power. Where as everyone faster than them are more of a jack of all trades fighting style.
Anyway, still a fair point. We have had far too many shit tier categories in the past that needed to be nuked and still getting them. Might as well put me on board with nuking that category as well.
- 24,835
- 6,105
Frankly why have any matches on any files
Now, keep in mind I care so little about this topic that I barely feel any significance in even placing that suggestion forward, but I've heard it spoken ad nauseum for like, 3 years now that this is an indexing site primarily, yet our profiles show our "official" take on matchups, leading to some substantial stretching of the rules ala the speed equalization thing that began this thread in the first place, or just, very weird rulings on the interactions between powers or frankly just, any amount of things that could be stupid on a matchup we make, breeding toxicity that never needed to be there to begin with.
Now, to be clear, what I'm saying is a very distinct thing from removing the idea of Versus threads whatsoever, I just really have to wonder at this point the purpose of having them on the pages, now that the thought's in my head.
Now, keep in mind I care so little about this topic that I barely feel any significance in even placing that suggestion forward, but I've heard it spoken ad nauseum for like, 3 years now that this is an indexing site primarily, yet our profiles show our "official" take on matchups, leading to some substantial stretching of the rules ala the speed equalization thing that began this thread in the first place, or just, very weird rulings on the interactions between powers or frankly just, any amount of things that could be stupid on a matchup we make, breeding toxicity that never needed to be there to begin with.
Now, to be clear, what I'm saying is a very distinct thing from removing the idea of Versus threads whatsoever, I just really have to wonder at this point the purpose of having them on the pages, now that the thought's in my head.
- Status
Similar threads
