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Making BB, and Gilgamesh More OP

Diinou HotHead said:
(Man, poor knowledgable members, they're gonna get messaged again and again lol)
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Most of them are busy doing other verse related things lol. but if its minor edits i could help out if they need me too.
 
after going through chapter entries. I agree that its not something living gill should normally have. so its a CCC only thing.
 
He did obtain his original power, but they need the Ten Crowns to nullify BB's invincibility. THe Ten Crowns originated from something in the past far older than gilgamesh.
 
The raising stats at will should be given to all the Servant with their Mythological Mystic Codes. It allowed them to match BB and her Star parameters so the limit on their stats are around there.

Gilgamesh should not get Ten Crowns same with the other Hakuno Servants.

The Servants gained the power of origin which was installed as Mystic Codes, they did not gain Ten Crowns because they needed something to counter Ten Crowns concept.

Ten Crowns functions based on the concept of "the Earth Mother is the origin of everything on Earth, so you can't hurt her". In order to counter it they needed concept that was just as relevant, so the power of origin they got shifted it from "the origin of this servant is the earth mother" to "the origin of this servant is their own legend", hence why it's called the Mythical/Mythological/Legendary/From Legend Mystic Code. This is also why Nero's Mystic Code is the Roman Emperor and why Gil's Mystic Code is his serious outfit from his prime during the Epic of Gilgamesh.
 
Why exactly does Meltlilith have resistance negation for what is blatantly a feat of just better data manip than what Servants resisted? Unless i'm missing context, which is likely tbf
 
Hl3 or bust said:
Why exactly does Meltlilith have resistance negation for what is blatantly a feat of just better data manip than what Servants resisted? Unless i'm missing context, which is likely tbf
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That's been on her profile before so I didn't touch it...
 
I dislike the fact that Ramesses just edits profiles without consulting with others and goes against what was agreed. That is definitely NOT the way things should be done and I'm disappointed.
 
...

He did what.

@Ramesses, not the way we do things. Even if you think you're right, you need to wait for others to consent, not just change things before anyone has a chance to disagree.

And wasn't the thing about whether they got ten frowns or not already addressed above?
 
Yes, I read it a couple of times and concluded that they indeed added Ten Crowns to him, which is what the text suggests, including unlocking his mystic code. I mean, I could be wrong, but other people also agreed on it. We can discuss it further, of course.

The other change was "'The Mythological Mystic Code allows Gilgamesh to freely raise his parameters at will], but only up to the level where 'he can compete against BB's Ôÿà parameters". This is not stated anywhere and is completely false. Sakura said that he should be careful while raising his power with it because his body might not be able to handle it. To which he responds that his body will not collapse under that power, but nontheless he will only use it once against BB.


It's not like someone's life depends on whether Gilgamesh gets Ten Crowns or not, but UpgradeMan invested his own time into making this thread and gathering feats, so just dismissing him like this is disrespectful.
 
I jumped the gun while I was irritated due to irl stuff sorry.

Rani was talking about the power of origin in her analysis. First they analysed Ten Crowns which got them access to the power of origin, then she explains that Ten Crowns is an ability that works based on origin.

After that we get to the statement where she talks about how all humans have the power of origin. Which is the reason she is able to install it on your Servant.

It is something all human beings hold within them. Therefore, we can append this ability it to your Servant as well.
 
That is true. it is something all humans have, but was it something his living self had?

I can see Nero having it, but my 2 issues with giving the same thing to each EoG servant....

Is Tamamo No Mae considered a Human???? if not... how would she have this ability...?

And Acher Emiya/Nameless has a completely different story. So im not sure what he got.

"If you choose both the female protagonist and the Servant Archer, the contents of Meltlilith-related events change completely.Also Archer is the only Servant whose END differs from the rest.The Servants based on Saber feature "The Future that begins in the Present," while Archer features "The Present that begins in the Future."The reason for this can surely be understood by those of you who have fought to the end alongside Archer. I'm sure you understand without me putting it into words ."
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Well she's not manipulating the concepts directly so I wouldn't even put it as concept hax tbh
I'd just note that she can control anything that "flows" somewhere on her page.

Maybe something like "Mind Manipulation, Water Manipulation, Sound Manipulation, likely far more via Meltout (can control anything that "flows", including thoughts, water poems and speech)"

Yeah that justification works for power null
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Well, she overtly manipulates certain concepts, but if you feel it isn't as grounded then at the very worst we should just move it down to possible/likely conceptual manip
 
Yeah but she's objectively stated to do that.

It's not a matter of showings when she has both word of god confirmation, and her own confirmation in CCC.

I agree with her normal servant profile not having it, but her CCC self should very well have it. It's stated that her servant self can't use the concept mainulation iirc.
 
Was there ever a time the concept of "Flow" was stated in her matrix??? I went through the site i used, and i couldn't find it. but conceptual manipulation confuses me soo im not the best person to confirm, or asses such hax.. I just go by it when its stated to be a concept..

btw just found something interesting. In the translations i use BB, Rin, and Rani both say "Flow of Time" and also use "concept of time." So maybe meltlilith can control "The Flow of time."
 
"Saraswati Meltout: Benzaiten's Five-String Biwa: Meltlilith's Noble Phantasm, derived from the Hindu goddess Saraswati and the Japanese Buddhist goddess Benzaiten, who preside over knowledge and the arts. With their authority, Meltilith is able to control anything "that flows", whether it be natural phenomena like wind and water, or man-made concepts like speech, prose, and music. This takes the form of the massive vortexes that Meltlilith creates as she battles as well as the "honey" she secretes for her Melt Virus, she is able to wash away her foes' body, common sense, morals, mind, society, and civilization to such an extent that it would be classified as an Anti-World Noble Phantasm rather than Meltlilith's preferred use of it as a targeted attack."
 
regardless of WoG, Saraswati Meltout is concept manip based on it's own description. No other power really equates to washing away civilization
 
In addition, even in the descriptions that don't overtly say the word concept are clearly in reference to the authority of nation building which is stated to create the concepts necessary for those, and Melt's in particular is for things like Music and other things that flow
 
 
On the topic of Ten Crowns.

It says: "The 'Ten Crowns' is the beginning of human history, the dawning of the light of civilization...it is the power of the Origin that began the human genome. It is something all human beings hold within them.". This "it" has to refer to "Ten Crowns" due to the way the sentences are formed.

"Therefore, we can append this ability it to your Servant as well.". To append means to attach or add. The Mythological wear was already inside Gilgamesh, so the wording of "adding" does not match. It cannot be referring to the Mythological wear since it is inside Gilgamesh and needs to be unleashed/realeased etc. which we have in the next paragraph: "You must enter your Servant's virtual mind/body, access the heroic spirit core directly, the heroic spirit's root that the Moon Cell has sealed away — and release' the 'legendary mystic code..". Basically, it does not make sense that Rani is adding an ability, which was already inside him.

"If we have the same power the Ten Crowns cannot make us 'things that weren't.'.". Again, the wording here suggests that they are talking about the Ten Crowns and not the Mythological wear, since they are not the same power. It can be refered to as a similar power, or as BB describes it "the power of the same order/rank as mine", but, it's not the same power. A battleaxe and a throwing axe are the same type of weapon, but they are not the same weapon (the basic category would be "axe weapons" and then you would divide it into "two-handed", "one-handed", "throwing weapo" etc. just so someone doesn't start nitpicking this). The sentence also implies that the two abilities basically cancel each other out, which would also imply that it's the Ten Crowns and not the other. Not to mention that Ten Crowns and Mythological wear don't do the same thing, so it doesn't make sense to call them "the same power".

This is the interpretation, based on the text. If the wording is wrong, then that's another thing completely.
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
That is true. it is something all humans have, but was it something his living self had?
I can see Nero having it, but my 2 issues with giving the same thing to each EoG servant....

Is Tamamo No Mae considered a Human???? if not... how would she have this ability...?

And Acher Emiya/Nameless has a completely different story. So im not sure what he got.

"If you choose both the female protagonist and the Servant Archer, the contents of Meltlilith-related events change completely.Also Archer is the only Servant whose END differs from the rest.The Servants based on Saber feature "The Future that begins in the Present," while Archer features "The Present that begins in the Future."The reason for this can surely be understood by those of you who have fought to the end alongside Archer. I'm sure you understand without me putting it into words ."
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There are my issues with it...
 
We have scans for Gilgamesh, so we should only give this to him (if we agree again). I'm aware that playable servants differ and we should find scans for them and not just mindlessly give them everything we give to Gilgamesh. Though, I am not sure if other routes have been translated if even partially.

Basically, we should be very careful when giving other servants abilities based on Gilgamesh's scans.
 
I agree. that is why i stopped at Gilgamesh since i have his route translated. There is translated vidoes on youtube, but it takes weeks to finish them all, and you may not even get the full content such as secret routes and matrixes.
 
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