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Major undertale revisions

You literally explained why they would have stronger bloodlust than normal humans just to conclude that it's regular bloodlust? What? Like I am genuily not getting your train of thought

Thats not what i said at all. I said that humans in the great war wouldnt have bloodlust in the sense of killing everyone for sadistic purposes. And argued against frisk surpassing ANY human bloodlust capability or having it in some supernatural sense at least early in the route.

The definition of regular bloodlust is "uncontrollable desire to kill or maim others.". Great war humans mostly wouldnt have that. Genocide frisk did.
 
Dude, there's already proof in the game that geno Frisk/Chara (even though geno is a Chara key btw in this very website) has far more bloodlust than neutral Frisk, as seen by the fact that Chara does far more damage to MTT NEO than Frisk, and that even at LV 17 Frisk can still fight against Asgore with the latter capable of trading blows with the human, meanwhile Chara can one shoot him

Humans can have bloodlust, however it's very clear by every character calling Chara inhuman that their bloodlust is superior to a average human, something you are even agreeing by explaining how their bloodlust is greater than humans from the war
 
Like, maybe Chara doesn't have greater bloodlust than any human, but they are very clearly a outlier and wouldn't scale to a regular human
 
Frisks killing intent in the genocide route was colossal and beyond any point in neutral yeah. My points just that humans in the great war wouldnt have bloodlust matching its actual definition.

It is due mostly to chara being an empty husk controlling a soul like flowey which becomes more noticeable in the genocide route since yknow, the souls what grants you positive emotions and mindless killing intentions distancing from that. But you still have a point since they would have had no good influence there.

So yeah. If that 10-C thing i mentioned were to happen it would be down to 10-C against extreme or genocidal bloodlust since killing toriel early in genocide deals way more damage than a regular betrayal kill.
 
Toriel was holding back and wasn't expecting that level of bloodlust, but glad we agree this only counts for extreme bloodlust
 
Tbf is only when both conditions activate.

Because they are made of magic, monsters’ bodies are attuned to their SOUL.
If a monster doesn’t want to fight, its defenses will weaken.
And the crueler the intentions of our enemies, the more their attacks will hurt us.
Therefore, if a being with a powerful SOUL struck with the desire to kill...
Um, let’s end the chapter here...

Plus, we can see that in Genocide monsters are tanking attacks from Frisk as they would in Neutral run, also because they are standing with the will to fight against such a treat, and only the yellow ones (which we know giving MERCY) are one-shotted.
 
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Btw I don't renember if this was in the OP or not but Flowey can't exploit monsters weakness like Chara can because he lacks a soul, which you need killing intent and a powerful soul, which he obviously lacks
 
The weakness is still there. Powerful souls worsen the effect.

Its clearly not an explosion though. Nothing in the area, not even the oven itself was damaged from that and was simply covered in flames or had burn marks on them. And was created from the flame expanding. An explosion wouldnt instantly cover the room in flames like that.
 
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No, the quote explicitly says a powerful soul with the intention to kill is what weakens monsters, not that it makes it worse, that's never stated, you are just making that up
 
Sigh. Flowey himself knows about and uses lv mechanics despite having no soul which on its own makes you more powerful in the face of monsters. If you want me to explain.

Because they are made of magic, monsters’ bodies are attuned to their SOUL.
If a monster doesn’t want to fight, its defenses will weaken.
And the crueler the intentions of our enemies, the more their attacks will hurt us.
Therefore, if a being with a powerful SOUL struck with the desire to kill...
Um, let’s end the chapter here...

First three lines give no reference to a powerful soul being required to do this. The first says monsters are attuned to their soul. the next two lines say the two weaknesses they have, which give no refernce to a powerful soul being required. Those two weaknesses generally apply top them. "therefore, if a being with a powerful soul struck with the desire to kill (theyd prolly die)". Essentially adding the idea of a powerful soul hitting them onto an already established weakness, which is due to the attunement mentioned earlier.

So no, a powerful soul is not required for the weakness to take place. It is just way more effective if someone with a powerful soul does it
 
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LV actually increases your strengh, so I don't get why you are using that as a point, but ok I get it, no need to get snippy about it.

I will still say that it wouldn't make them that much weaker tho
 
Ah. Sorry if im snapping a lot. Just a bit bummed out and tired lately. Although lv doesnt increase physical strength. Its strictly killing intent which makes frisk stronger in the face of monsters. The stats ingame are likely just that.

Well... if theyre not that much weaker against flowey then i guess asgore being just above flowey level against his bloodlust wouldnt really make his base all that higher and bloodlust from someone with a soul would prolly do way more.
 
Anyway... efficient suggested earlier about leaving this and handling one topic at a time in later threads, probably to make it easier for staff since... they dont seem to wanna skim through this. What do you think?
 
Asgore can fight even against a LV17 Frisk, so bloodlust doesn't weaken him that much in general
 
RethPo said:
Anyway... efficient suggested earlier about leaving this and handling one topic at a time in later threads, probably to make it easier for staff since... they dont seem to wanna skim through this. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Yeah that's probably better
 
Well ill wait for staff to close this then so it can be brought up in pieces unless maybe staff wanna continue this. Ill work on a more focused low tier revision and work on explanations. And thanks for the help (Edit: Dw, thought that counts)!

Also id say one shots only happen when its completely mindless no good will bloodlust rather than just really high killing intent so i can somewhat agree.
 
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