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Major Grappler Baki Powers and Abilities Revisions

There are a few characters who could use profiles tbh. Che is one for sure. I'd say Motobe, Ali Jr and maybe Jyaku could all get profiles along with him if someone has the time to do them. Thankfully stats and scaling would be easy as they all would have one key besides Motobe who has two.
 
Massive outlier. Shibukawa is consistently shown as the weakest member of the cast physically and was nearly KO'd by a single punch from Doppo.
 
But his aiki is what makes him strong. And its consistent for aiki to work on individuals who are stronger physically. As shown against oliva and Nomi and doppo, seeing as he defeated doppo at the maximum tournament.
 
He used aiki for that punch which increased his punchs physical stats. So that wouldn't be an outlier he was using aiki to increase the power of that punch. Also a charecter in desperate need of a profile are both shinogi brothers, and Lee who fought oliva and was stated faster than him multiple times, even yujiro stated oliva couldn't keep up with hin in speed during the raitai tournament, and he was able to injure and damage oliva even with his level of A.P. being inferior to his own, theres a statement of oliva saying he is going to use more power in order to K.O him. So he should scale.
 
I thought the entire point about Aiki was using the opponent's strenght against him, i don't see how a simple punch can have Aiki in it.
 
He used aiki to get musashi on the ground, and the reason why the punch was so destructive is because he used Musashi's force against him. Otherwise his punch would've had no effect. He was using aiki the entirety of that fight.
 
He used Aiki to get Musashi on the ground, yes, but i don't see how the punch is related to this entirely different move.
 
I don't think it's possible to use Aiki in the punch either. He was already using Aiki to pin Musashi down. Had he used Musashi's force in the punch he would have never been able to pin him down.
 
For sure, whenever Shibukawa's Aiki is beaten in some way he ALWAYS gets dicked on. Just look at his fights against Jack and even Musashi after the initial trick Shibukawa pulls. He's powerless.
 
There's no reason to believe at all that goki can produce that amount of force without using aiki. If he used it to pin him down,there's no reason to believe that he can't apply that, amount of redirected to both of his hands at the same time. Aiki is a Japanese martial arts principle or tactic in which the defender blends with the attacker, then goes on to dominate the assailant through the strength of their application of internal dynamics or Ki energy to affect techniques. Blending with an attacker's movements allows the Aiki practitioner to control the actions of the attacker with minimal effort. One applies Aiki by understanding the rhythm and intent of the attacker to find the optimal position and timing to apply a counter-technique. So it runs through out his entire body, he did something similar vs Ali jr, so there's no reason to believe that he couldn't use it to pin him down and use the remaining force to attack. Because without aiki he has no force behind his attacks at all.
Shot0209 (1)
 
Instead of it being an outlier since he has done something similar we can find a way for it to work within the legistics of aiki. I'm not saying it's consistent with how he fights normally. But it can within aikis,or how it's defined it can be applied in such a way. It just wouldn't be consistent so the feat does not really matter because it's not consistent not for it being an outlier. feat is because it's not consistent.
 
I don't think Aiki has really shown any limits, only weaknesses which aren't directly correlated to how much it can redirect, I agree with Ali
 
Just had to throw that out there, we also do have that statement of Goki saying that against Nomi he could possibly finally. See the limits of aiki. Just more supporting evidence, now that i think about it suppose we can count the feat. Also yeah it wouldn't affect his durability well.... Possibly but I don't think it does.
 
Jack is just far stronger and goki didn't have a chance to implement aiki. There could be arguments that it could somewhat dl something for his durability, he doesn't have bad durability anyway.
 
He was using Aiki the entire fight tbh Jack was just too good plus biting made it tough. Aiki isn't meant to make you take more hits, the whole point is not getting hit at all. Both Doppo and Ali Jr were capable of one shotting Shibukawa. His durability is not impressive at all.
 
I'm glad this is still open, I'd like to discuss giving Baki Instinctive Reaction and limited invisibility due to a quote from him while he was training for his final confrontation with Musashi in Chapter 173

"Even though my muscles are doing their own thing, I feel different. My chest, my arms, my shoulders, my legs, my feet, my body doesn't need to be trained for what it is about to confront. Even if someone just thinks about throwing a punch at me all of the sudden without reason, or landing a kick, even if it's just a gaze, when it happens, my body with react and move on it's own. Even if those eyes and thoughts of others around me try to end my life, I will sense it and move like this (disappears). To be invisible and transparent... That's the way to do it. That's it, to constantly vanish".
 
Instinctive reaction looks fine but i don't agree with invisibility.

Someone should add the following weaknesses for Xiao Lee users:

Attacks from above and ramming your enemy against walls are effective against defensive Xiao Lee.
 
Instinctive Reaction seems fine to me, Yujiro may scale to this.

Kaku was capable of negating the weakness to extent but Retsu defiantly has that flaw.

Agreed he should.
 
I say Limited Invisibility because not only was he able to completely disappear to normal people by dodging their sight, he was also able to disappear to all of his fighter friends AND Musashi
 
I read the chapter, he only disappears in front of two regular people. Not Musashi. Either way it's more of a speed feat. Moving faster than people can see has been seen other top tiers like Pickle and Yujiro as well.
 
Amlad22 said:
I read the chapter, he only disappears in front of two regular people. Not Musashi. Either way it's more of a speed feat. Moving faster than people can see has been seen other top tiers like Pickle and Yujiro as well.
Click to expand...
Chapter 184

Kureha: Just now... did Baki just... he just... disappeared?

Musashi: Where...? Where did you go...?

So Baki is naturally able to blitz Musashi in combat speed? Just wanted to clarify, as this seems like either limited invisibility due to being able to dodge someone's sight, or some kind of speed amp, as it's referred to as a technique several times
 
I looked at the raw translations that can be found and I don't see Musashi saying that. Kureha defiantly does. Either way the attack is simply Baki using the speed of the Cockroach Tackle to land 3 powerful hits on Musashi. He's just moving really fast.
 
See, I think that's what Musashi was referring to now that I think about it (it's kind of difficult to see, he mutters something about not seeing Baki while he's on the ground after getting hit by the triple Cockroach Tackle punches), so that would mean this speed dodging standstill technique he uses can allow him to become invisible to some like Kureha (due to the speed amp)?
 
Definitely a speed amp, but the reason I was thinking limited invisibility is because he's specifically dodging their sight, so if he can move faster than they can react, he'd basically be in a constant state of blitzing all while barely moving from the spot he's in
 
Invisibility via speed isn't invisibility that's the thing because as soon as someone fast enough to see Baki comes along he is no longer invisible.

Gaia is an example of someone who would have limited invisibility via blending in with the environment. Because no matter how much faster someone is, Gaia will still be invisible.
 
Something interesting I found

http://www.tenmanga.com/chapter/BakiSonOfOgre119/483863-20.html

Kaku states that the true Mach Fist, the one that Katsumi masters, can reach speeds far greater than 1000 miles per minute. Converting to m/s it's about 26822.4 m/s or Mach 66.5 roughly. Based on what Kaku said the maximum speed is likely double that or higher.

So Katsumi's attack speed strictly with the true Mach Fist and anyone who scales to it could possibly be upgraded to "At Least High Hypersonic+ likely higher"
 
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