Major DBZ and DBS Upgrades (Since Nobody is Unlocking the 2-C Crt)

[Reiner04]

Ion even think there was a fight with more than even 15 episodes of the same fight but you’re not really giving me examples so I can’t really address your concerns

Is it a issue when we accept Infinite speed in finite time being a thing?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Is it an issue when we accept Infinite speed in finite time being a thing?

No but I still want to know what’s he’s referring to because I don’t remember anything like that

 

[Ss3micah]

This is just General Questions out of curiosity since I was very busy the past few days and had no time to pay attention to this….

What are the three space times of the Macrocosm?
And IIRC the complete creation/destruction of any of these space-times would result in Infinite Speed correct?
And is the World of the Kai is supposedly now High 3-A/Low 2-C now since it’s 1/10 the size of the Macrocosm which would still Make it 1/10 the size of infinite which is still infinite?

 

[Reiner04]

No but I still want to know what’s he’s referring to because I don’t remember anything like that

If there is no issue then do not address it lol . Wrote off the staff consensus and wait for 48 hrs.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

This is just General Questions out of curiosity since I was very busy the past few days and had no time to pay attention to this….

What are the three space times of the Macrocosm?
And IIRC the complete creation/destruction of any of these space-times would result in Infinite Speed correct?
And is the World of the Kai is supposedly now High 3-A/Low 2-C now since it’s 1/10 the size of the Macrocosm which would still Make it 1/10 the size of infinite which is still infinite?

Living Realm, Afterlife, Kaioshin Realm and yeah kaioshin realm is Low 2-C/high 3-A

If you scale to an attack engulfing the macrocosm then it’d be infinite speed

If there is no issue then do not address it lol . Wrote off the staff consensus and wait for 48 hrs.

 

[Ss3micah]

Living Realm, Afterlife, Kaioshin Realm and yeah kaioshin realm is Low 2-C/high 3-A

If you scale to an attack engulfing the macrocosm then it’d be infinite speed

Quick Question
Would creating/destroying all matter (this meaning planet, stars, solar systems, galaxies, etc) across the infinite size living universe in a finite amount of time also constitute for infinite speed?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Quick Question
Would creating/destroying all matter (this meaning planet, stars, solar systems, galaxies, etc) across the infinite size living universe in a finite amount of time also constitute for infinite speed?

Yes

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Quick Question
Would creating/destroying all matter (this meaning planet, stars, solar systems, galaxies, etc) across the infinite size living universe in a finite amount of time also constitute for infinite speed?

I believe so, as galaxies are considered infinite in DB in what has been accepted.

 

[Ss3micah]

I believe so, as galaxies are considered infinite in DB in what has been accepted.

In that case then you have my Agree as well

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

In that case then you have my Agree as well

Thank you very much, Micah! Mind staying here for a while if people start denying the speed?

 

[Chariot190]

Ion even think there was a fight with more than even 15 episodes of the same fight but you’re not really giving me examples so I can’t really address your concerns

i dont really have DBS downloaded to check for specific examples, I just remember from when it was airing there being episodes where Goku and lads fought the whole time through without actually stopping to rest, and I meant the TOP as a whole being that long not any specific fight, Of course there's people talking in every episode, but that's usually relegated to the spectators, which is suspect either way because a whole fight should last only an instant, they shouldn't be able to comment on stuff that's happening, as it happens, and then the episode to end and go "oh like 1 minute has passed".

I'd assume people would have gone through the episodes though to actually check for contradictions before attempting this upgrade tho, kind of an important thing to make sure

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

i dont really have DBS downloaded to check for specific examples, I just remember from when it was airing there being episodes where Goku and lads fought the whole time through without actually stopping to rest, and I meant the TOP as a whole being that long not any specific fight, Of course there's people talking in every episode, but that's usually relegated to the spectators, which is suspect either way because a whole fight should last only an instant, they shouldn't be able to comment on stuff that's happening, as it happens, and then the episode to end and go "oh like 1 minute has passed".

I'd assume people would have gone through the episodes though to actually check for contradictions before attempting this upgrade tho, kind of an important thing to make sure

The ToP really should not be used as an argument considering cinematic timing and the fact that time doesn't exist there

 

[Ss3micah]

Thank you very much, Micah! Mind staying here for a while if people start denying the speed?

Meh, Sure

 

[Chariot190]

The ToP really should not be used as an argument considering cinematic timing and the fact that time doesn't exist there. Maybe a bit of PIS too

I wouldn't call it PIS, none of the contradictions plot relevant. Cinematic timing is fair, and there is cases of that but not to the degree that would handwave the issues as the narrator gives timeframes every episode and we know a lot of this is happening simutaneously. And time not existing there is just a funny way of calling it a random void realm, time counts down all the same, plus we as the wiki don't even accept timeless voids to mean anything anymore without a bunch of extra proof, it's why GER isn't infinite speed anymore for example.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I wouldn't call it PIS, none of the contradictions plot relevant. Cinematic timing is fair, and there is cases of that but not to the degree that would handwave the issues as the narrator gives timeframes every episode and we know a lot of this is happening simutaneously. And time not existing there is just a funny way of calling it a random void realm, time counts down all the same, plus we as the wiki don't even accept timeless voids to mean anything anymore without a bunch of extra proof, it's why GER isn't infinite speed anymore for example.

I'm not using the timeless void argument to support infinite speed, I'm using it to point out that ToP time shenanigans in relation to infinite speed fall flat when you consider that fact

 

[Chariot190]

I'm not using the timeless void argument to support infinite speed, I'm using it to point out that ToP time shenanigans in relation to infinite speed fall flat when you consider that fact

That just means it's demonstrably and explicitly wrong and while time may not exist there in a natural sense, the passage of time still happens.
Time passing takes precedence given it literally happens, every single episode.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Why are people using the tournament to unmask? No, the tournament doesn't refute shit, toriyama didn't make the tournament of power end instantly, he made it last for a certain amount of time, plot my friends, let's use this same reason to downgrade a certain verse that takes years to pass from one house to another another, and another stop endless derailment, this is not anti done against infinite speed.

 

[Chariot190]

Why are people using the tournament to unmask? No, the tournament doesn't refute shit, toriyama didn't make the tournament of power end instantly, he made it last for a certain amount of time, plot my friends, let's use this same reason to downgrade a certain verse that takes years to pass from one house to another another, and another stop endless derailment, this is not anti done against infinite speed.

Because it literally does? You do know what infinite speed entails?
If we have an episode of Goku fighting the whole time throughout, and at the end, it's like "1 minute has passed", we have an issue, because no time should have passed, the fight from start to finish should have lasted for 0 time, quite literally, instant.
also half the dudes with infinite speed on the wiki sus af, downgrade away brother
also using plot as a counter doesnt work when it's like every episode for a quarter of the show's runtime, at that point it's a bit much to ignore. If they wanted to convey it for them to be infinite there'd be ways to do so and still have a timer.

 

[Ss3micah]

That just means it's demonstrably and explicitly wrong and while time may not exist there in a natural sense, the passage of time still happens.
Time passing takes precedence given it literally happens, every single episode.

Never stopped nor affected Persona
Especially Persona 3
Where every shadow has immeasurable speed despite still being affected by the passage time of 1 hour while in the Dark Hour. The Dark Hour is literally a secret 25th hour where Immeasurable speed shadows act up and even then time still passes in the dark hour. And when 1 hour is up the dark hour ends. Persona 3 Dark Hour basically the ToP and again, them acting within a 1 hour timeframe at immeasurable speed is not considered an anti-feat and that’s one example I can name

 

[Chariot190]

Never stopped nor affected Persona
Especially Persona 3
Where every shadow has immeasurable speed despite still being affected by the passage time of 1 hour while in the Dark Hour. The Dark Hour is literally a secret 25th hour where Immeasurable speed shadows act up and even then time still passes will there in the dark hour. And when 1 hour is up the dark hour ends. Persona 3 Dark Hour basically the ToP and again, then acting within a 1 hour timeframe at immeasurable speed is not considered an anti-feat and that’s one example I can name

That's just arguing two wrongs make a right. If that's truly the case then take it up with the Persona dudes.
Also nobody is saying time can't flow, it just can't happen while theyre fighting without stopping.

 

[Vladimir]

I agree with that, looks good.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Because it literally does? You do know what infinite speed entails?
If we have an episode of Goku fighting the whole time throughout, and at the end, it's like "1 minute has passed", we have an issue, because no time should have passed, the fight from start to finish should have lasted for 0 time, quite literally, instant.
also half the dudes with infinite speed on the wiki sus af, downgrade away brother
also using plot as a counter doesnt work when it's like every episode for a quarter of the show's runtime, at that point it's a bit much to ignore. If they wanted to convey it for them to be infinite there'd be ways to do so and still have a timer.

I repeat, this is not a counterargument against infinite speed, Akira toriyama wanted it to last right, so no, using the plot to refute speed is not fair at all, as I said before, certain characters take years to cross a house and even to go somewhere place, then you can also disregard feat of speed of several verses.

Alright, I'm going to use that to unmask characters with infinite speed, since that's the case here.

 

[Vladimir]

It's a pity that it's only about the anime, all media on the same level would be perfect, but anyway, like I said, it's good.

 

[Chariot190]

I repeat, this is not a counterargument against infinite speed, Akira toriyama wanted it to last right, so no, using the plot to refute speed is not fair at all, as I said before, certain characters take years to cross a house and even to go somewhere place, then you can also disregard feat of speed of several verses.

Alright, I'm going to use that to unmask characters with infinite speed, since that's the case here.

But, it is a counterargument? An extremely blatant one.
The issue isn't even time passes, it's that time passes while all they did was fight. If they fought, stopped for a bit, and then went on fighting you could argue the time that passed was in the rest points like OP is saying, but we both know there's episodes where lads fought without stopping or taking a break, and time still ticked down. Unless they're holding back to not be infinite against some of the weaker dudes that's fine, but those fodder aren't really taking whole episodes to put down to begin with.
We also have characters comment on actions as they happen, that is also a tad sus, characters that while fast, wouldn't be scaling to infinite, meaning, they'd never be able to comment on anything because to them the whole fight should have started and ended already in a instant.

go ahead, as long as it's fair. Personally I'd be willing to handwave the ToP shit if it was only once or twice, a whole arc though is a bit much.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I repeat, this is not a counterargument against infinite speed, Akira toriyama wanted it to last right, so no, using the plot to refute speed is not fair at all, as I said before, certain characters take years to cross a house and even to go somewhere place, then you can also disregard feat of speed of several verses.

Alright, I'm going to use that to unmask characters with infinite speed, since that's the case here.

The ToP is the only saga after the infinite speed feat (with three between it and BoG) where timestamps are constantly noted

 

[omegabronic]

.

if you could put an "agree and disagree" counter on the op that would help, since some people seem to have agreed with 2-C but not with the infinite and high 3-A stuff, that would help to know who agreed and to what they agreed

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Never stopped nor affected Persona
Especially Persona 3
Where every shadow has immeasurable speed despite still being affected by the passage time of 1 hour while in the Dark Hour. The Dark Hour is literally a secret 25th hour where Immeasurable speed shadows act up and even then time still passes in the dark hour. And when 1 hour is up the dark hour ends. Persona 3 Dark Hour basically the ToP and again, them acting within a 1 hour timeframe at immeasurable speed is not considered an anti-feat and that’s one example I can name

We got rid of immeasurable speed for all Shadows a long time ago.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

We also have characters comment on actions as they happen, that is also a tad sus, characters that while fast, wouldn't be scaling to infinite, meaning, they'd never be able to comment on anything because to them the whole fight should have started and ended already in a instant

They shouldn't have been doing that for MFTL+ either

Its PIS

 

[Ss3micah]

That's just arguing two wrongs make a right. If that's truly the case then take it up with the Persona dudes.

You should be the one to take it up with then if your the person calling it wrong

Another example I can name is Archie Super Sonic fighting Enerjak Knuckles. Both move at immeasurable speeds and both were VISIBLY shown fighting from DAY LIGHT to NIGHT TIME showing a passage of time as TWO IMMEASURABLE SPEED beings fought each other

 

[Ss3micah]

We got rid of immeasurable speed for all Shadows a long time ago.

My mistake then
I stand corrected

 

[omegabronic]

They shouldn't have been doing that for MFTL+ either

Its PIS

look, not trying to have a side on this debate or whatever, but from my understanding of previous thread, the standards for infinite speed and above are so strict that this that wouldn't be an anti feat for mftl+ tier would be an outlier for any infinite and above speed tier, don't quote me on this tho

 

[Chariot190]

They shouldn't have been doing that for MFTL+ either

Its PIS

Nah, MFTL+ is fine, because even if it to the fighters, the comments happen like a whole year from their pov, after the action was performed, the fact is they could still comment on it eventually, but in ToP we see them comment while the fight is still ongoing. That shouldn't be the case, the fight should have ended already, because the fight itself would have started and ended instantly in 0 time at all.

When everything is PIS, is that even really PIS anymore? You could argue the things like Whis traveling across an infinite distance or the infinite ki ball are PIS by that line of logic, both things help to service the plot in some ways, Whis traveling around could be argued PIS because he actually needs to get places for the plot to progress, or the ki ball to exemplify Beerus and Goku's threat to the universe to uphold the whole universal thing they had going on.
PIS needs to have a bit more foundation than that.

 

[Eseseso]

Excellent scaling blog/sandbox, and I agree with all the upgrades.

 

[Chariot190]

You should be the one to take it up with then if your the person calling it wrong

Another example I can name is Archie Super Sonic fighting Enerjak Knuckles. Both move at immeasurable speeds and both were VISIBLY shown fighting from DAY LIGHT to NIGHT TIME showing a passage of time as TWO IMMEASURABLE SPEED beings fought each other

Why would I? I don't agree with a bunch of things on the wiki, but I'm not invested or care much for them. It isn't my job to do so.
But I don't mind DBZ, and I saw this thread, so I'm commenting on it. At the moment, I don't quite agree with infinite speed, that could change if more evidence is provided or sufficient explanations to disregard the contradictions, but just because other verses, according to you, have speeds like that for potentially suspicious reasoning doesn't mean I have to tackle them too.

 

[Chariot190]

I agree with the 2-C scaling tho

 

[Ss3micah]

Why would I? I don't agree with a bunch of things on the wiki, but I'm not invested or care much for them. It isn't my job to do so.
But I don't mind DBZ, and I saw this thread, so I'm commenting on it. At the moment, I don't quite agree with infinite speed, that could change if more evidence is provided or sufficient explanations to disregard the contradictions, but just because other verses, according to you, have speeds like that for potentially suspicious reasoning doesn't mean I have to tackle them too.

You forgot to use Strikethrough Chariot
Edit your comment immediately
But fair point I suppose

 

[omegabronic]

I agree with the 2-C scaling tho

the jojo guy, who had a batman profile picture, and post alien memes all the time, you gotta respect someone like that ngl

 

[Chariot190]

You forgot to use Strikethrough Chariot
Edit your comment immediately
But fair point I suppose

That one was serious, I get DM'd to comment on verses all the time like it's my job to argue for other people, like nah man I don't give a **** if Madoka is getting upgraded or whatever, I just deal with my exceptionally homoerotic manga and comics and baby games.

 

[Chariot190]

the jojo guy, who had a batman profile picture, and post alien memes all the time, you gotta respect someone like that ngl

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

That one was serious, I get DM'd to comment on verses all the time like it's my job to argue for other people, like nah man I don't give a **** if Madoka is getting upgraded or whatever, I just deal with my exceptionally homoerotic manga and comics and baby games.

Do people just assume you know things?