Majestic Attire Susano is FAR stronger than we thought

[UchihaSlayer96]

I think he might be referring to this, not the 4th databook.

I was referring to this.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I was referring to this.

What?

 

[Damage3245]

What?

As in the thing that had been translated many times before and doesn't refer to the planet. That scan, I am assuming.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

As in the thing that had been translated many times before and doesn't refer to the planet. That scan, I am assuming.

Indeed.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It’s overtime, so wouldn’t we still use the AP per second needed to power the ETSB?

Check her profile

 

[DavidTPPM]

As in the thing that had been translated many times before and doesn't refer to the planet. That scan, I am assuming.

Oh sure.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Finally have time to respond to this.

Let's delve into the reasons why you don't agree with this interpretation.


We've already struck an issue with your line of reasoning. In your argument, you're making the claim that since the statement was made during the beginning of the manga, it stands to reason that the context of the statement references all before it, at least until the end fights of the previous series, as it doesn't make much sense otherwise. The issue with this is we don't actually have evidence for this being the case, it just makes more sense to you that it is the case compared to the opposite. Which is fine for a personal interpretation, but asserting this to be more likely requires actual evidence, not just personal opinion.

Nothing about our claims causes contradiction with what we're given. If we assert that the statement is made referencing everything currently available to them, which is supported by the statement's lack of specifics, and the claim's non-contradiction with the text, semantically, it doesn't contradict our claim that the statement is contextually referencing MAS being the strongest in that moment, not something that's necessarily all-encompassing, temporally.

I want to say the amount of scrutiny placed on this statement is not something I expected but let's get into it.
Your interpretation of it refers to strongest ninjustu presently may not be contradictory but it has not backing is actually the worse interpretation of the 2. Yes there may not be 100% evidence supporting that it means of all time but I don't need evidence that far.
I said it before. You don't need it to state "of all time or in history " to put it over other jutsu. Naruto jutsu explanations comes like a set, I'm sure that's how we treat it. Only because this one comes in boruto that somehow people are looking at it differently.
Also look at the scan again. The tag is legend: uzumaki naruto
Legend: uzumaki sasuke.
For them to put legend in front in context they are treating it as not in context of present abilities and jutsu but past showing i.e what they made for themselves during the last war.

So, just like I asked the OP of this thread, I'll ask you this. What actual evidence, something that provides justification for your claims, supports your interpretation being more correct compared to ours?

You didn't actual show evidence supporting your claim all you did was say the statement is vague and could mean justu strongest ninjustu presently. Let me make it clear there see 2 interpretation here , none of which have clear cut evidence for supporting either. And I have shown that in context that statement is worthless and isn't even worth writing if it was reffering to presently. The amount of ninjutsu present in boruto era is completely worthless and the strongest ninjustu currently wouldn't amount to anything.
My reasons for going with the interpretation of in history as opposed to currently is:
1. It was the first showcase of ninjustu and at the early stage of the manga. Statements of strongest this and that are usually made to made show superiority to others with already tested strength. There was almost zero ninjustu showcased in the show at that point well except fodder genin ninjustu. So what exactly were the top tier ninjustu that MAS was being compared to and hailed the strongest? And if you actually treat boruto as a continuation of naruto this statement won't be contested . ⁸

I want to make my point clear. We have databooks for explanation of jutsu..boruto has none. They have one guide book talking about one jutsu being the strongest justu. It is much more logical to me that when hailing that jutsu as the strongest jutsu they are making reference to the already explained jutsu in previous databooks as opposed to hailing it as the strongest jutsu in respect to non existent jutsu that has not been shown or explained in any databook in boruto

 

[Deceived3596]

I want to say the amount of scrutiny placed on this statement is not something I expected but let's get into it.

It's a contextually vague statement that's being used to argue for 4-B God-Tiers, which is millions of times stronger compared to where these characters currently scale to. it's inevitably going to have large amounts of scrutiny placed upon it.

Your interpretation of it refers to strongest ninjustu presently may not be contradictory but it has not backing is actually the worse interpretation of the 2. Yes there may not be 100% evidence supporting that it means of all time but I don't need evidence that far.
I said it before. You don't need it to state "of all time or in history " to put it over other jutsu. Naruto jutsu explanations comes like a set, I'm sure that's how we treat it. Only because this one comes in boruto that somehow people are looking at it differently.
Also look at the scan again. The tag is legend: uzumaki naruto
Legend: uzumaki sasuke.
For them to put legend in front in context they are treating it as not in context of present abilities and jutsu but past showing i.e what they made for themselves during the last war.

Let's collectively evaluate this post.

It's your argument that my position, while not inherently contradictory, is less likely to be true compared to your position, and the main factual differences between the two positions is that the lack of a specified timeline, and the databook page specifically discussing the "legend of Naruto", points to your assertion being more likely. I don't agree with this reasoning, so I'll address each point individually.

Regarding the lack of a specified timeline not meaning it doesn't have contextual support for a timeline; I never disagreed with this, the issue with what I have is that I don't believe the context that does exist with the databook page is enough to assert it's talking about all Ninjutsu across history. What we're given is that the databook scan is discussing capabilities of both Naruto and Sasuke, and then proceeds to make a statement on the combination of their both strongest forms resulting in the strongest Ninjutsu. None of what is said implies either assumption to be more true or more false.

Regarding the tag argument; Them discussing the legend of both characters is not evidence for/against our interpretation since our interpretation is contingent on the idea that what is being discussed is abilities which are usable at this current moment. Them discussing previous usages of those abilities isn't a counter to that conclusion, because both things can be true and still not result in deductive contradiction.

It can be the case that those statements are made, contextually, across history. It doesn't then follow that the strongest Ninjutsu statement is also, contextually, across history as well. It's a Formal Fallacy to assert true without due reason. It's your job as the person who is asserting this claim is true that the conclusion reached is congruent with the premises given.

You didn't actual show evidence supporting your claim all you did was say the statement is vague and could mean justu strongest ninjustu presently. Let me make it clear there see 2 interpretation here , none of which have clear cut evidence for supporting either. And I have shown that in context that statement is worthless and isn't even worth writing if it was reffering to presently. The amount of ninjutsu present in boruto era is completely worthless and the strongest ninjustu currently wouldn't amount to anything.
My reasons for going with the interpretation of in history as opposed to currently is:

I did provide evidence for my claim. Me explaining how the context of the statement is more supported by my explanation of it is support for the explanation. I've pointed to the text multiple times as evidence of this being true. You can disagree with how I interpret the evidence, which is fine and understandable, but acting like I haven't provided support for my argument is just blatantly untrue. We're working upon the same set of evidence, we just interpret it differently.

It seems like you don't understand our argument, so I'll explain it here: We aren't asserting that since the strongest Ninjutsu statement is a statement of the present, it's referencing only present Jutsu, as in Jutsu shown only in Boruto. We are asserting that the strongest Ninjutsu statement is a statement that's contextually referencing the combination of the strongest Ninjutsu usable by both Naruto and Sasuke currently. It actually has little to do with how many Jutsus are shown at this point in time in Boruto.

1. It was the first showcase of ninjustu and at the early stage of the manga. Statements of strongest this and that are usually made to made show superiority to others with already tested strength. There was almost zero ninjustu showcased in the show at that point well except fodder genin ninjustu. So what exactly were the top tier ninjustu that MAS was being compared to and hailed the strongest? And if you actually treat boruto as a continuation of naruto this statement won't be contested . ⁸

I already addressed this statement above, so I don't see the reason to address it again.

I want to make my point clear. We have databooks for explanation of jutsu..boruto has none. They have one guide book talking about one jutsu being the strongest justu. It is much more logical to me that when hailing that jutsu as the strongest jutsu they are making reference to the already explained jutsu in previous databooks as opposed to hailing it as the strongest jutsu in respect to non existent jutsu that has not been shown or explained in any databook in boruto

Same as above.

 

[SirAlex09]

Just a technical question: Aren't every Otsutsuki related abilities considered Shinjutsu and/or Kekkai Mora and don't fall into the category of Ninjutsu?

 

[Kayzz]

Just a technical question: Aren't every Otsutsuki related abilities considered Shinjutsu and/or Kekkai Mora and don't fall into the category of Ninjutsu?

No, Otsutsuki are still capable of ninjutsu if they tried.
Shinjutsu may be a specific set of abilities going by the way Momoshiki described it since he probably knows all of them.

Plus the translation stated "strongest power/offense", not ninjutsu I think.

 

[Godernet]

Disagree for Deceiveds reasoning

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Honestly a discussion rule would probably be good for this ngl, won’t have to deal with the same arguments rehashed over and over again.

 

[KingTempest]

I think every single person who has voting rights has disagreed to this including every knowledgeable member so I'm closing this

Plus, it's been 48 hours.

This is getting NUKED