Majestic Attire Susano is FAR stronger than we thought

[sageof8paths]

INTRO
I’ve had this scaling in the tank for a while but I was too lazy to make it lol. This is my balls of steel 4B and Ftl+ God tier thread. I plead that you please read the arguments to understand and not just reply. If u have contentions or disagree I please ask that you explain why instead of just stating u don’t agree and leaving the thread. This thread proposes an upgrade for both ap and speed so please stick till the end. Thanks

AP SCALING
In the boruto official guides, it’s stated that naruto and sasuke’s Majestic Attire Susano in the boruto era is the THE STRONGEST OFFENCE, STRONGEST DEFENCE, AND STRONGEST NINJUTSU.

That would put it above any and every jutsu shown in the entire franchise pretty much until jigen shows up which would obviously include Kaguya’s expansive truth seeking orb which is currently at Star level.

But I’m not done. The reason why Kaguya is at Star level is because she was going to recreate her dimension which is accepted by the wiki that she has a star and planet in said dimension.
In the calc reference page, an Omnidirectional explosion from earth that destroys the sun would be 4B or Solar System level.

The wiki obviously doesn’t accept this for the Etso destruction capabilities because it’s durability negation and only focuses on the creation feat, however I propose that that it INFACT does for 2 reasons

1. Tso’s CAN explode omnidirectional if the user wants it too and was likely the method Kaguya would have used as it would literally take days to reach the sun at the speed it was growing. The current calc uses 15 years as a timeframe which is so absurd seeing has it was portrayed as far more urgent than that in the manga with them saying the need to seal her right now.

2. As for its durability negation, Hiruzen, The Professor says it works like Onoki’s particle style which dismantles/destroys things on an Atomic/Moleculer level

AP CONCLUSION
The high end for the Kaguya ETSO should be 4B and everyone who scaled to the boruto Era MAS should be 4B as well.

Kaguya’s etso is a ninjutsu which creates an omnidirectional explosion that atomizes everything in from earth to the sun, then recreates it. The the MAS is just stated stronger whether it be offense, defence and as a ninjutsu as a whole.

Kaguya’s Etso is a physical attack just like the MAS so the statement should apply no problem.

Them boys took steriods during the time skip lmao also makes sense seeing as Kaguya herself didn’t thinks she could use this to beat momo n kin and wanted more chakra from Naruto and sasuke.

SPEED SCALING:
Speed scaling is a lot less contentious and is just calc stacking of the fusions.

Base momo and kinshiki scale to war arc Naruto’s 2.11c Feat, individually.

They then fuse which gives us 4.22c as a bare minimum (the addition of them has already been accepted by the wiki)

50% Naruto (accepted by the wiki) is relative to fused momo and in the manga he’s just faster lmao.

Which would 100% Naruto at 8.44c

Naruto and Sasuke then fuse to make the MAS which would put that at 16.88c or FTL+

It should scale to their speed for 2 reasons

1. It’s literally them fusing their chakra into one, should amp speed just as much as it amps AP.

2. Naruto couldn’t land a hit on momo’s monkey jutsu but when they fuse, it’s momo who can’t land a hit so it clearly amps speed .


Conclusion
The MAS is honestly just a beast and anyone who scales to/above the MAS should have a form of 4B or Solar System rating whether it be possibly or up to, as well as FTL+ for speed.

Thanks for reading, have a blessed day

 

[Damage3245]

Pretty sure a lot of these arguments have been brought up before and been rejected.

I'm not seeing anything particularly new here.

They then fuse which gives us 4.22c as a bare minimum (the addition of them has already been accepted by the wiki)

Prove that them fusing together adds their speed together.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Damage FRA. Arc and Slayer FRB.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

In the boruto official guides, it’s stated that naruto and sasuke’s Majestic Attire Susano in the boruto era is the THE STRONGEST OFFENCE, STRONGEST DEFENCE, AND STRONGEST NINJUTSU in the verse at that point.

"At that point" (as per your own admission) doesn't inherently include "in all of history". Kaguya's ETSO isn't a jutsu available to anyone at that point, since Kaguya isn't there. So, the MA can be beyond any jutsu at that point without intrinsically outscaling the ETSO.

SPEED SCALING:

1) We don't accept people fusing as doubling their speed without evidence, 2) our multiplier page forbids obtaining multipliers through reason as opposed to statements, and 3) we don't accept that chakra and speed are 1:1 linear.

 

[sageof8paths]

Pretty sure a lot of these arguments have been brought up before and been rejected.

I'm not seeing anything particularly new here.



Prove that them fusing together adds their speed together.

The sight was buggin and all the attached links were not showing up, I’ve edited them now so they should show. Please could you re-read it, honestly my bad

 

[Nierre]

This was already argued in Arc's last thread, which was rejected by most (and a couple times in the past?).

As per my opinion in the last thread, I have no problems with MAS scaling above ETSO, as it's a Ninjutsu. With the guidebook stating MAS to be the strongest Ninjutsu, it should logically scale above ETSO. I never found the oppositions' arguments against this strong enough to reject it, but since it's been rejected in the past (and seemingly even now lol), and no new arguments are being presented in this thread, this thread isn't going to pass. So count me as neutral on that front.

Also I disagree with the speed FRA

 

[sageof8paths]

"At that point" (as per your own admission) doesn't inherently include "in all of history". Kaguya's ETSO isn't a jutsu available to anyone at that point, since Kaguya isn't there. So, the MA can be beyond any jutsu at that point without intrinsically outscaling the ETSO.

I meant to say up until that point. That’s my bad but regardless the actual scan just says THE strongest offense and defence and ninjutsu regardless of time. Saying kaguya’s etso doesn’t apply is taking the negative approach and is not fair at all which is why I proposed a “possibly 4B”

1) We don't accept people fusing as doubling their speed without evidence,

I give evidence in the thread

2) our multiplier page forbids obtaining multipliers through reason as opposed to statements,

1. It’s not a multiplier it’s an addition, it’s literally just 1+1 many times.

2. The wiki already accepts the additions that I proposed in this.

and 3) we don't accept that chakra and speed are 1:1 linear.

Me saying them fusing their chakra/power wasn’t an allusion to overall chakra reserves I more so meant power/overall ability. I apologize for not wording some stuff properly.

Aside from these what do you have to say about the 4B Etso?

 

[sageof8paths]

This was already argued in Arc's last thread, which was rejected by most (and a couple times in the past?).

As per my opinion in the last thread, I have no problems with MAS scaling above ETSO, as it's a Ninjutsu. With the guidebook stating MAS to be the strongest Ninjutsu, it should logically scale above ETSO. I never found the oppositions' arguments against this strong enough to reject it, but since it's been rejected in the past (and seemingly even now lol), and no new arguments are being presented in this thread, this thread isn't going to pass. So count me as neutral on that front.

Also I disagree with the speed FRA

What does fra mean I’m a noob

 

[Nierre]

What does fra mean I’m a noob

for reasons above

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

SPEED SCALING:
Speed scaling is a lot less contentious and is just calc stacking of the fusions.

Base momo and kinshiki scale to war arc Naruto’s 2.11c Feat, individually.

They then fuse which gives us 4.22c as a bare minimum (the addition of them has already been accepted by the wiki)

The addition of their power is accepted, not their speed. So unfortunately this isn't already accepted.

50% Naruto (accepted by the wiki) is relative to fused momo and in the manga he’s just faster lmao.

Which would 100% Naruto at 8.44c

We don't accept chakra and speed to be 1:1.

Naruto and Sasuke then fuse to make the MAS which would put that at 16.88c or FTL+

It should scale to their speed for 2 reasons

1. It’s literally them fusing their chakra into one, should amp speed just as much as it amps AP.

2. Naruto couldn’t land a hit on momo’s monkey jutsu but when they fuse, it’s momo who can’t land a hit so it clearly amps speed .

1. No because we do not accept chakra and speed to be 1:1.
2. The golem scales far above Momoshiki, so he isn't really valid to say Fused Momo is doubled in speed, when Momo doesn't scale to his own golem.

I meant to say up until that point. That’s my bad but regardless the actual scan just says THE strongest offense and defence and ninjutsu regardless of time. Saying kaguya’s etso doesn’t apply is taking the negative approach and is not fair at all which is why I proposed a “possibly 4B”

Or rather, the statement is contextualized in the context of discussing Naruto and Sasuke's jutsu. Why is your interpretation of high probability? Furthermore, the ETSO is like 4-C over time, so idk where you get 4-B from. But more importantly, why does the output of a single attack from the MA have to be above an attack that only reaches tier 4 after a period of time?

 

[Deceived3596]

To further extrapolate on Arc's post, even if we assume that the MAS scaling to the ETSO is equally as possible as it not scaling to the ETSO. This would just delve into the territory of equal interpretations, which means we'd most likely default to a neutral stance unless we have further evidence supporting either side. So, I ask the OP, what exactly supports your interpretation being more likely compared to Arc's interpretation?

THE strongest offense and defence and ninjutsu regardless of time. Saying kaguya’s etso doesn’t apply is taking the negative approach and is not fair at all which is why I proposed a “possibly 4B”

Firstly, the usage of "the" doesn't equate to it containing the contextual property of all time. That's an assumption on your part as "the" doesn't inherently mean it's discussing an entire extent of something. Words are contextually based, we require evidence to which this context extends to. So, I ask, what proves it's discussing all Ninjutsu across time?

Secondly, possible ratings are reserved for ratings which are relatively probable, but aren't probable enough to suffice are requirements for likely or concrete ratings. Having a bunch of claims, which at the best are equal interpretation claims, isn't enough to suffice our requirements for possibly ratings. Stacking probabilities lessens the chance of something being the thing which you're claiming it to be, that's just a law of probabilistic outcomes.

 

[sageof8paths]

The addition of their power is accepted, not their speed. So unfortunately this isn't already accepted.

Why isn’t speed accepted in this when theirs clearly shown to be a speed amp for all fusions?

They’re not just fusing chakra reserves, but rather power and overall ability.

We don't accept chakra and speed to be 1:1.

Again, it’s not just a fusion of chakra reserves.

1. No because we do not accept chakra and speed to be 1:1.
2. The golem scales far above Momoshiki, so he isn't really valid to say Fused Momo is doubled in speed, when Momo doesn't scale to his own golem.

I never said fused momo doubles in speed.

I said base momo + kin = 4

50% Naruto =4

100% Naruto + 100% sasuke = 16

But if it doesn’t matter then we can move on.

Or rather, the statement is contextualized in the context of discussing Naruto and Sasuke's jutsu. Why is your interpretation of high probability?

The context of the guide is to gas up Naruto and sasuke as the strongest and at no point is the time frame specified in the scan.

For example isshiki is stated Naruto’s strongest enemy. Why would I assume it’s talking about currently?

Kaguya also thought she’d need more chakra to beat momo and Kin.

As I explain in my thread about how Tso’s can explode if they were only moon level she wouldn’t have been scared shitless like that.

Apart from that even the 9 tail’s fodder ass can amp the shinobi alliance.

100 shinobi can optimize their chakra to blow up a moon.

Even Toneri is stated to be stronger than Kaguya.

The expansive Tso is not portrayed as the strongest thing in the verse when comparing to others.

With all that said I think it warrants them scaling to it.

Furthermore, the ETSO is like 4-C over time, so idk where you get 4-B from. But more importantly, why does the output of a single attack from the MA have to be above an attack that only reaches tier 4 after a period of time?

Bro the bulk of this thread is explaining why it’s 4B

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

1. Tso’s CAN explode omnidirectional if the user wants it too and was likely the method Kaguya would have used as it would literally take days to reach the sun at the speed it was growing.

TSOs have never exploded, ever. In the scans you just posted, it actually expanded really fast. They only explode when the user transmutes them into another attack, such as Naruto turning them into a Bijū Bomb Rasenshurikens or Toneri's GWRE.
Also, it's complete head canon to assert that she was going to do any such move. The technique's name is quite literally the EXPANSIVE Truth Seeking Ball. It's whole shtick is that it continuously expands and grows in size, until it engulfs and erases the dimension in which it resides. Absolutely nothing supports your interpretation here.

The current calc uses 15 years as a timeframe which is so absurd seeing has it was portrayed as far more urgent than that in the manga with them saying the need to seal her right now.

It's a lowball, to be sure. We're all aware of that fact. However, a safe lowball is still better than an arbitrary assertion.

2. As for its durability negation, Hiruzen, The Professor says it works like Onoki’s particle style which dismantles/destroys things on an Atomic/Moleculer level

Just Molecular, not Atomic.
Additionally, this was prior to Yin-Yang Release being added to it, which gives it erasure properties and what have you.
A Molecular level Deconstruction ball isn't going to erase a dimension along with its space, last I checked.

 

[Excellence616]

I disagree FRA

 

[sageof8paths]

TSOs have never exploded, ever. In the scans you just posted, it actually expanded really fast. They only explode when the user transmutes them into another attack, such as Naruto turning them into a Bijū Bomb Rasenshurikens or Toneri's GWRE.
Also, it's complete head canon to assert that she was going to do any such move. The technique's name is quite literally the EXPANSIVE Truth Seeking Ball. It's whole shtick is that it continuously expands and grows in size, until it engulfs and erases the dimension in which it resides. Absolutely nothing supports your interpretation here.

This is ignoring the fact that
1. Obito’s Tso’ began to flash before it “grew” something that kaguya’s didn’t do.

2. Kishimoto uses a lighter tone to display the explosion, another thing that kaguya’s didn’t do.

It's a lowball, to be sure. We're all aware of that fact. However, a safe lowball is still better than an arbitrary assertion.

Using 15 years as a time frame completely ignores the fact that they literally say it’s very urgent and need to deal with it now. Even using an hour is still a low ball let alone 15 years

Just Molecular, not Atomic.
Additionally, this was prior to Yin-Yang Release being added to it, which gives it erasure properties and what have you.
A Molecular level Deconstruction ball isn't going to erase a dimension along with its space, last I checked.

Like u said it’s destroying space and specifically not space time anyone could destroy a space if strong enough.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I believe the statement for MAS being the strongest ninjustu should make it scale above any other ninjustu know in the series up to that point . I can see the reasons against it are because it may not necessarily mean all of history. Well frankly I don't see this side of the argument.
First of all why I don't agree with this is the time at which the statement was made. If it was made during later stages in the manga I would see this line of reasoning but this statement was during the momoshiki fight. That is chapter 4 of the manga. Aside from genin jutus shown there is almost no ninjustu showcased yet in the show. So the statement most likely is referencing the show's prequel i.e naruto shippuden. Think about it. The manga just kicked off and a guide book statement talking about most powerful ninjustu, it's obviously not talking about just current as there had not been really any current ninjustu, well except you fee the guide book needed to clearly tell us that MAS is above genin jutsu.

Also "in all of history or of all time" is not really needed to denote it is referring to both past and present. It all just depends on context. Right in that scan it states sasuke has the most powerful doujustu, even says naruto can blow the earth away with a bijuudama. The guide is clearly hyping up their abilities at the beginning of the series . What exactly are the boruto era high level ninjutsu showcased as at chapter 4 that would show MAS is clear cut above the rest. Besides we should be consistent in statements like this. It cannot apply for one and not the other. in the last sasuke is stated to have mastered the strongest genjustu. We rate it's potency above every other genjustu in the series because of that. We did not say "oh it should only be above genjustu in the period of the last movie because we were not given a statement of in history or something like that" . So why do we rate it over all other genjutsu, why don't we just say it should be over current genjutsu. Actually I would be happier if sasuke own is removed if this is not accepted. That way i would know the wiki is consistent and it is a matter of policy. It would make more sense to me. Either remove similar statement like that or this should be accepted.

 

[karo_senpaii]

INTRO
I’ve had this scaling in the tank for a while but I was too lazy to make it lol. This is my balls of steel 4B and Ftl+ God tier thread. I plead that you please read the arguments to understand and not just reply. If u have contentions or disagree I please ask that you explain why instead of just stating u don’t agree and leaving the thread. This thread proposes an upgrade for both ap and speed so please stick till the end. Thanks

AP SCALING
In the boruto official guides, it’s stated that naruto and sasuke’s Majestic Attire Susano in the boruto era is the THE STRONGEST OFFENCE, STRONGEST DEFENCE, AND STRONGEST NINJUTSU.

That would put it above any and every jutsu shown in the entire franchise pretty much until jigen shows up which would obviously include Kaguya’s expansive truth seeking orb which is currently at Star level.

But I’m not done. The reason why Kaguya is at Star level is because she was going to recreate her dimension which is accepted by the wiki that she has a star and planet in said dimension.
In the calc reference page, an Omnidirectional explosion from earth that destroys the sun would be 4B or Solar System level.

The wiki obviously doesn’t accept this for the Etso destruction capabilities because it’s durability negation and only focuses on the creation feat, however I propose that that it INFACT does for 2 reasons

1. Tso’s CAN explode omnidirectional if the user wants it too and was likely the method Kaguya would have used as it would literally take days to reach the sun at the speed it was growing. The current calc uses 15 years as a timeframe which is so absurd seeing has it was portrayed as far more urgent than that in the manga with them saying the need to seal her right now.

2. As for its durability negation, Hiruzen, The Professor says it works like Onoki’s particle style which dismantles/destroys things on an Atomic/Moleculer level

AP CONCLUSION
The high end for the Kaguya ETSO should be 4B and everyone who scaled to the boruto Era MAS should be 4B as well.

Kaguya’s etso is a ninjutsu which creates an omnidirectional explosion that atomizes everything in from earth to the sun, then recreates it. The the MAS is just stated stronger whether it be offense, defence and as a ninjutsu as a whole.

Kaguya’s Etso is a physical attack just like the MAS so the statement should apply no problem.

Them boys took steriods during the time skip lmao also makes sense seeing as Kaguya herself didn’t thinks she could use this to beat momo n kin and wanted more chakra from Naruto and sasuke.

SPEED SCALING:
Speed scaling is a lot less contentious and is just calc stacking of the fusions.

Base momo and kinshiki scale to war arc Naruto’s 2.11c Feat, individually.

They then fuse which gives us 4.22c as a bare minimum (the addition of them has already been accepted by the wiki)

50% Naruto (accepted by the wiki) is relative to fused momo and in the manga he’s just faster lmao.

Which would 100% Naruto at 8.44c

Naruto and Sasuke then fuse to make the MAS which would put that at 16.88c or FTL+

It should scale to their speed for 2 reasons

1. It’s literally them fusing their chakra into one, should amp speed just as much as it amps AP.

2. Naruto couldn’t land a hit on momo’s monkey jutsu but when they fuse, it’s momo who can’t land a hit so it clearly amps speed .


Conclusion
The MAS is honestly just a beast and anyone who scales to/above the MAS should have a form of 4B or Solar System rating whether it be possibly or up to, as well as FTL+ for speed.

Thanks for reading, have a blessed day

Just wanted to note. Recently the wiki just accepted EE as being ap applicable. So kaguya destroying that size of a dimension the value would scale via EE and not just creation over time

 

[Deceived3596]

I believe the statement for MAS being the strongest ninjustu should make it scale above any other ninjustu know in the series up to that point . I can see the reasons against it are because it may not necessarily mean all of history. Well frankly I don't see this side of the argument.

Let's delve into the reasons why you don't agree with this interpretation.

First of all why I don't agree with this is the time at which the statement was made. If it was made during later stages in the manga I would see this line of reasoning but this statement was during the momoshiki fight. That is chapter 4 of the manga. Aside from genin jutus shown there is almost no ninjustu showcased yet in the show. So the statement most likely is referencing the show's prequel i.e naruto shippuden. Think about it. The manga just kicked off and a guide book statement talking about most powerful ninjustu, it's obviously not talking about just current as there had not been really any current ninjustu, well except you fee the guide book needed to clearly tell us that MAS is above genin jutsu.

We've already struck an issue with your line of reasoning. In your argument, you're making the claim that since the statement was made during the beginning of the manga, it stands to reason that the context of the statement references all before it, at least until the end fights of the previous series, as it doesn't make much sense otherwise. The issue with this is we don't actually have evidence for this being the case, it just makes more sense to you that it is the case compared to the opposite. Which is fine for a personal interpretation, but asserting this to be more likely requires actual evidence, not just personal opinion.

Nothing about our claims causes contradiction with what we're given. If we assert that the statement is made referencing everything currently available to them, which is supported by the statement's lack of specifics, and the claim's non-contradiction with the text, semantically, it doesn't contradict our claim that the statement is contextually referencing MAS being the strongest in that moment, not something that's necessarily all-encompassing, temporally.

So, just like I asked the OP of this thread, I'll ask you this. What actual evidence, something that provides justification for your claims, supports your interpretation being more correct compared to ours?

Also "in all of history or of all time" is not really needed to denote it is referring to both past and present. It all just depends on context. Right in that scan it states sasuke has the most powerful doujustu, even says naruto can blow the earth away with a bijuudama. The guide is clearly hyping up their abilities at the beginning of the series . What exactly are the boruto era high level ninjutsu showcased as at chapter 4 that would show MAS is clear cut above the rest. Besides we should be consistent in statements like this. It cannot apply for one and not the other. in the last sasuke is stated to have mastered the strongest genjustu. We rate it's potency above every other genjustu in the series because of that. We did not say "oh it should only be above genjustu in the period of the last movie because we were not given a statement of in history or something like that" . So why do we rate it over all other genjutsu, why don't we just say it should be over current genjutsu. Actually I would be happier if sasuke own is removed if this is not accepted. That way i would know the wiki is consistent and it is a matter of policy. It would make more sense to me. Either remove similar statement like that or this should be accepted.

It's not dependent on that since language can describe multiple things, in multiple different ways. I agree with this. I don't agree that we have evidence supporting that the context of the statement is referencing all time/all history. This, again, doesn't provide support for your claim. The constant statements about abilities previously shown in the series isn't concrete evidence for your claim here since our claim is that the abilities referenced are abilities which are currently usable to them. It's the case that these abilities were previously used in Naruto, but it's also the case that the abilities are still usable by these characters as well. This just falls into another equal interpretations type scenario, which, as I already explained previously, would result in us assuming a neutral stance, not asserting either claim is more truthful compared to the other.

Regarding the Sasuke point, this is just you equivocating. We can apply a different meaning to another when that another has differentiating context, nothing about our propositions necessitates us creating contradictions. It's on you to prove how we're creating a contradiction, you can't just assert that we are without providing actual reasoning.

Like, even if we steelman this position, we can just remove Sasuke's scaling entirely. It still doesn't prove your claim of MAS scaling above all previous Jutsu.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Let's delve into the reasons why you don't agree with this interpretation.


We've already struck an issue with your line of reasoning. In your argument, you're making the claim that since the statement was made during the beginning of the manga, it stands to reason that the context of the statement references all before it, at least until the end fights of the previous series, as it doesn't make much sense otherwise. The issue with this is we don't actually have evidence for this being the case, it just makes more sense to you that it is the case compared to the opposite. Which is fine for a personal interpretation, but asserting this to be more likely requires actual evidence, not just personal opinion.

Nothing about our claims causes contradiction with what we're given. If we assert that the statement is made referencing everything currently available to them, which is supported by the statement's lack of specifics, and the claim's non-contradiction with the text, semantically, it doesn't contradict our claim that the statement is contextually referencing MAS being the strongest in that moment, not something that's necessarily all-encompassing, temporally.

So, just like I asked the OP of this thread, I'll ask you this. What actual evidence, something that provides justification for your claims, supports your interpretation being more correct compared to ours?


It's not dependent on that since language can describe multiple things, in multiple different ways. I agree with this. I don't agree that we have evidence supporting that the context of the statement is referencing all time/all history. This, again, doesn't provide support for your claim. The constant statements about abilities previously shown in the series isn't concrete evidence for your claim here since our claim is that the abilities referenced are abilities which are currently usable to them. It's the case that these abilities were previously used in Naruto, but it's also the case that the abilities are still usable by these characters as well. This just falls into another equal interpretations type scenario, which, as I already explained previously, would result in us assuming a neutral stance, not asserting either claim is more truthful compared to the other.

Regarding the Sasuke point, this is just you equivocating. We can apply a different meaning to another when that another has differentiating context, nothing about our propositions necessitates us creating contradictions. It's on you to prove how we're creating a contradiction, you can't just assert that we are without providing actual reasoning.

Like, even if we steelman this position, we can just remove Sasuke's scaling entirely. It still doesn't prove your claim of MAS scaling above all previous Jutsu.

I'd respond much later but care to explain why sasuke case is different? It seems 100% same thing to me. And no I didn't use it to prove my claim, I specifically said I would be happier it be removed

 

[Deceived3596]

I'd respond much later but care to explain why sasuke case is different? It seems 100% same thing to me. And no I didn't use it to prove my claim, I specifically said I would be happier it be removed

I don't really see the usefulness in me explaining why Sasuke's case is different since it's a needless divergent from our original point of MAS scaling above all Ninjutsu, I just see it as a waste of time on my part. If you want an in-depth explanation on it, I'd just contact Slayer and ask him since he was the person who originally added the scaling to the blog.

 

[RanaProGamer]

I just realized, if 4-B overtime ETSB is accepted, then Kaguya with IT would be 2.26e38 which would be Dwarf Star level

 

[Halkum145]

I state that I disagree about the speed. I completely agree with 4b etsb. I think MAS is insufficient in its context regarding the scale of etsb, and if you are going to defend it, I can bring you a better argument (I am definitely not saying that I am defending 4b naruto).

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree with Halkum.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So, just because we assign AP to EE attacks now doesn’t automatically make the ETSO 4-B. It’s still a matter of fact that the ETSO destroys the space via slow expansion, getting more potent as more chakra is pumped into it increasing its size. Which is not at all what the 4-B calc presumes for the destruction of a realm with a star. So, no it’s not 4-B, it’s just 4-C.

 

[SwartSter26]

I'm neutral on the speed update, about the majestic atirre susanoo it really makes sense, Naruto and Sasuke together at that point were stronger than Momoshiki who is already considered stronger than Kaguya even here on the wiki, the context is clearly referring which is the strongest ninjutsu up to that point in the series.

 

[RanaProGamer]

So, just because we assign AP to EE attacks now doesn’t automatically make the ETSO 4-B. It’s still a matter of fact that the ETSO destroys the space via slow expansion, getting more potent as more chakra is pumped into it increasing its size. Which is not at all what the 4-B calc presumes for the destruction of a realm with a star. So, no it’s not 4-B, it’s just 4-C.

It’s overtime, so wouldn’t we still use the AP per second needed to power the ETSB?

I just realized, if 4-B overtime ETSB is accepted, then Kaguya with IT would be 2.26e38 which would be Dwarf Star level

 

[karo_senpaii]

So, just because we assign AP to EE attacks now doesn’t automatically make the ETSO 4-B. It’s still a matter of fact that the ETSO destroys the space via slow expansion, getting more potent as more chakra is pumped into it increasing its size. Which is not at all what the 4-B calc presumes for the destruction of a realm with a star. So, no it’s not 4-B, it’s just 4-C.

Simply divide it by the time frame. I don't think it's more than an hour. Considering the size it covered in mere seconds

 

[Deceived3596]

Simply divide it by the time frame. I don't think it's more than an hour. Considering the size it covered in mere seconds

What exactly supports an hour assumption? I agree that our currently accepted assumption is a complete lowball that's contradictory to the clear narrative of Kaguya's ETSO being an immediate danger, not a multiyear danger (at least that's what I personally believe). But we can't just assume an hour timeframe without due reason.

 

[karo_senpaii]

What exactly supports an hour assumption? I agree that our currently accepted assumption is a complete lowball that's contradictory to the clear narrative of Kaguya's ETSO being an immediate danger, not a multiyear danger (at least that's what I personally believe). But we can't just assume an hour timeframe without due reason.

I didn't give a 1hour assumption, all I waa trying to point across was that it is not long.
The complete lowball assumption is for creation but we are talking about the EE destruction. Considering kakashi said if they left there now they most likely won't be able to return at all, this deduction he made is due to the speed at which he saw the expansion, we also saw how quick it expanded in the short time frame . Expanding at that rate at the worst it won't be up to a day for it to completely cover the dimension

 

[DavidTPPM]

I agree with the AP for ETSO. Not only does Obito make his TSO explode, the databook for them verbatim says. Although I don't know what time frame should be used exactly. 15 years is a RIDICULOUS lowball but idk what would be a more accurate timeframe.

hidden inside those orbs is the power to easily obliterate an entire forest

I'm neutral on the Majestic Attire part. The statement is vague so both interpretations (it's strongest rn/it's strongest in history) are understandable. I think a "possibly" rating should be fair enough.

For now I disagree with the speed section. Speed doesn't exactly scale up like that in Naruto.

I didn't check everyone's responses yet tho, so I could be saying shit that was debunked already

 

[Halkum145]

みちい ★独りで修羅の道を行こうとするサス さいきょう 375ケをナルトが引き止める!最強の力を てい ふたり しゅうまつなげきとつ 手に入れた二人が終末の谷で激突ッ!! https://imgur.com/gallery/COfpFLA

translate : Naruto holds him back! The two of them, who have obtained the strongest power, will clash in the Valley of the End!!

Ah yes, you can create a discussion about this scan, this scan can take a value above etso depending on the interpretation. I'll leave the discussion to you, just scan from me

 

[DavidTPPM]

みちい ★独りで修羅の道を行こうとするサス さいきょう 375ケをナルトが引き止める!最強の力を てい ふたり しゅうまつなげきとつ 手に入れた二人が終末の谷で激突ッ!! https://imgur.com/gallery/COfpFLA

translate : Naruto holds him back! The two of them, who have obtained the strongest power, will clash in the Valley of the End!!

Ah yes, you can create a discussion about this scan, this scan can take a value above etso depending on the interpretation. I'll leave the discussion to you, just scan from me

I think you should try asking someone from the translation helper group to help with this.

 

[Halkum145]

I think you should try asking someone from the translation helper group to help with this.

The translation is correct, I had it done by arc7 before

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I agree with 4B. I'm neutral on speed.

みちい ★独りで修羅の道を行こうとするサス さいきょう 375ケをナルトが引き止める!最強の力を てい ふたり しゅうまつなげきとつ 手に入れた二人が終末の谷で激突ッ!! https://imgur.com/gallery/COfpFLA

We can use this scan and consider Naruto and Sasuke's strongest attacks as 4B. Kurama also says that Isshiki is very different from the monsters we have encountered before. Here it says so because of his power. Kurama sees Kaguya's attack having 4B Ap, and despite this, he sees Isshiki on a level apart from previous opponents. Is Tier 4B Isshiki & Baryon Naruto possible?

 

[Testarossa002]

Overall, I'm inclined to agree with MAS scaling above ETSO with Karo's reasoning above

I disagree with the speed scaling

I also disagree with using the scan and translation above to scale Naruto and Sasuke to ETSO for reasons i already shared off site
That being said

There's a line in the guidebook statement in the OP that says Kurama's bijuu bomb is capable of blowing up the earth
Not "earth shattering" or "turning the world to ash"
Just "blow up the earth"
I believe that deserves more scrutiny
Maybe not for this thread

 

[Damage3245]

There's a line in the guidebook statement in the OP that says Kurama's bijuu bomb is capable of blowing up the earth
Not "earth shattering" or "turning the world to ash"
Just "blow up the earth"
I believe that deserves more scrutiny
Maybe not for this thread

Pretty sure that refers to the ground, not the planet itself.

 

[Testarossa002]

Maybe someone should take a look at the translation
So it doesn't end up like another "Kinshiki can split the earth"

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It's been translated before on a number of occasions, it doesn't refer to the planet.

 

[Deceived3596]

5-B Kurama falls through the fingers of Naruto fans once again.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Pretty sure that refers to the ground, not the planet itself.

I think he might be referring to this, not the 4th databook.