Madoka Kaname (PMMM) VS Asriel Dreemurr (Undertale)

[Aurasuke]

You have to watch the show to understand lol. It's actually such a good show. You think it's all cute due to the art they show you but in the end you take like a 180 turn when everything is revealed lol.

 

[Tzula]

I detest it.. Lol.

Like I don't understand it. I found OPM appealing.. But I just don't understand magical girls :C

 

[Aurasuke]

Where else do you find Magical girls fightning in a time stopped space with guns like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVi_fs2oz3E

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Weird lol
Apparently Flowley is the future version of Asriel so technically he's infinitely stronger than himself? Thought that's only because his attack and defence are at infinite, and he is technically superior to Chara who is tier 2-B even though he lost to her. Flowley's tier 2-A rating came from overpowering Frisk. Thus god flower had Attack and Def stats like 100 or so for both, while Asriel has stats of infinite.

However that isn't really a feat, more like scaling, so in a way yes he is technically infinitely stronger than god flower but to be more precise you could think of it as Infinity/100 times stronger which is still infinite technically in mathmatically terms. (BTW this probably isn't true, I couldn't find God Flowley's stats anywhere, so he's actuall attack or defense is pretty unknown so we can only say that he's stronger than Frisk, however Asriel being infinitely stronger than frisk (at least in terms of stats) is thus stronger than his future self.

If you think about this for a second though you'll realize that his strongest form is many times stronger than his previous form, but by an unknown amount. So then you would give him back a multiplier?

Infinity/100* unknown number=Infinity?

Asriel's best "feat" (not power scaling due to his stats I mean) is overpowering Chara who is tier 2-B. Even then he didn't do it instantneously (even though it's beyond the concept of normal time, it's not beyond the concept of higher time in that dimension).

In other words overpowering a 2-B character is his best feat while power scaling to Flowley, his "future self" he is infinity/100 times stronger or so. Flowley is also scaled to frisk who is tier 2-B for being stated to being stronger despite having lost to Frisk giving him a likely 2-A rating.

Madoka on the other hand is rated High 2-A because she rewrote all universes in Madoka breaking casuality and killing her future self while remaining above the concept of time. She exists in all universes, past present and future, yet can never be seen or detected and becomes the concept of hope.

So much wat.

Flowey is not the future version of Asriel. Asriel turns into Flowey upon his initial death when he was mortal, but once again makes himself into Asriel when he gets the power of seven human souls.

God Flowey lost to Chara? What? When did this happen?

Asriel never fights Chara. Asriel fights pacifist Frisk, who is >>> Chara, at least in terms of defense.

Again, Flowey is not his future self. I have no idea where you're getting this.

Madoka didn't rewrite the entirety of all universes. She simply erased the concept of witches from all universes, which killed her in the process. In fact, I'm not even sure that's a High 2-A feat.

 

[Aurasuke]

God Flowey lost to Chara? What? When did this happen?

Well I assumed since it's a game you needed to beat it or something, saw this vid about boss battle with God Flowley.

Madoka didn't rewrite the entirety of all universes. She simply erased the concept of witches from all universes, which killed her in the process. In fact, I'm not even sure that's a High 2-A feat.

Using string theory a universe with different physical laws exist in the 7th dimension, while every physical law is included in a point in the 8th dimension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg85IH3vghA

If you look at 1 hours 36 minutes and around 20 to 30 seconds, it explains how 7 dimensional space includes all possible laws of physics according to string theory.

If we are going by the laws of the real world technically she is 7 dimensions as she affects fundamental laws such as gravity or the speed of light (in madoka the law of cycles is basically a fundamental law for why magical girls dissapear).

But anyway people always say fiction isn't like reality, true someone who affected gravity across maybe a planet isn't 7 dimensions, but what about someone who broke casuality by erasing all witches before they were born in the past present and future, thus changing all those different infinite timelines, of all those different universes as a result?

When you destroy the concept of witches that itself violates casuality on quite a high level. If you think about it each event leads to the next, yet by erasing the concept of witches before they are even born, the people who were killed by witches would never have been killed, as a result of that, some girls wouldn't have formed contracts in order to fight the witches because they wouldn't know they existed. Basically it's like saying gravity doesn't exist now on every single universe, what kind of implications would that have?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well I assumed since it's a game you needed to beat it or something, saw this vid about boss battle with God Flowley.

Using string theory a universe with different physical laws exist in the 7th dimension, while every physical law is included in a point in the 8th dimension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg85IH3vghA

If you look at 1 hours 36 minutes and around 20 to 30 seconds, it explains how 7 dimensional space includes all possible laws of physics according to string theory.

If we are going by the laws of the real world technically she is 7 dimensions as she affects fundamental laws such as gravity or the speed of light (in madoka the law of cycles is basically a fundamental law for why magical girls dissapear).

But anyway people always say fiction isn't like reality, true someone who affected gravity across maybe a planet isn't 7 dimensions, but what about someone who broke casuality by erasing all witches before they were born in the past present and future, thus changing all those different infinite timelines, of all those different universes as a result?

When you destroy the concept of witches that itself violates casuality on quite a high level. If you think about it each event leads to the next, yet by erasing the concept of witches before they are even born, the people who were killed by witches would never have been killed, as a result of that, some girls wouldn't have formed contracts in order to fight the witches because they wouldn't know they existed. Basically it's like saying gravity doesn't exist now on every single universe, what kind of implications would that have?

Frisk fights God Flowey, not Chara. Even then, they would have lost had the six human souls not rebelled.

Changing a multiversal concept in no way works like that in most fiction, and if it did, most High 2-A characters would become (Low) 1-C, anyway.

 

[Aurasuke]

most High 2-A characters

Yes, if they could affect all universes with different initial conditions that would be different from our big bang that made up our universe sure.

Basically authors no nothing about fiction and can say they exist in 100 dimensions without ever having to explain what does each dimension layer actually add.

Frisk fights God Flowey, not Chara. Even then, they would have lost had the six human souls not rebelled.

K, never actually played undertale. It has high ratings but the graphics, they look a bit worse than final fantasy 7 (at leas taht was somewhat 3d, this seems almost completely 2-d.

Anyway bottom line is Madoka broke casuality in those universes. Everyone of them were basically rewritten.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's because it is 2-D? lol

Everything that has higher dimensional status is beyond our basic causality. Madoka wished for no girls in the past, present, or future to become witches, and it worked. She did a damn good job of that, but what I'm arguing is that's not really more impressive (to me at least) than what serious Asriel's done, especially when casual Asriel is already significantly stronger than an acausal conceptual being who exists outside the game.

 

[Tzula]

I'm abandoning this thread.

My head hurts

 

[Aurasuke]

This kind of feels like arguing which tier 0 is higher lol if you know what I mean except with tier 2s instead of tier 0.

For instance someone like Primal Monitor could be replaced by an Elder God who is tier 1-A and they could do the same thing as Primal Monitor who is tier 0 as everyone else is 1-B or lower, yet in the Primal Monitor has a higher tier in his own series because he's all powerful in his own series.

It feels kind of like we're saying that accept arguing which tier high 2-A is stronger than the other. Sure he killed other 2-A tiers, and has stats infinitely stronger than him, but Madoka did (as in actual feats), what is required to achieve the highest 2-A requirement possible without going into higher dimensions.

Correct me if I'm wrong but is Asriel's most impressive feat not toying around with tier 2-B Frisk? Sure he is scaled to High 2-A due to his stats, but in terms of feats, that's the best he had done.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm abandoning this thread.
My head hurts

You should see literally anything with multiple tier 1s lol.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

"You are still avoiding my question. I asked. why bend reality to a multiversal level would be equivalent to Attack Potency. I understeand exactly where are you trying to get. But still you are just avoiding to answer me that. Why, if Madoka never showed it before. Would she had more Attack Potency than, say, Chara who has destroyed reality casually?"
Never shown before. Hmm, she broke casuality and rewroter all realities infinite of them at once. All universes at once. Never shown before....lol Yeah I wonder about that.

Her wish wasn't that all wishes could be erased from the past present and future of all timelines, she wished that she had the power to do it herself she has the power to erase all those witches and break casuality while she does it. She has that level of reality warping ability.

Rewriters infinite instantly, is able to interact with all witches that she erased such as Sayaka, and Nagisa. She interacts with things that beyond the realm of existence, she herself is beyond the realm of existence.

I know Madoka's feats. I know that she erased every witch in an infinite multiverse. But here is the trick. Again. That's a great showing of two things:

1.-Reality warping

2.-Range of action

But it's not a great feat destructive wise as:

1.-Destroy a reality with numerous timelines.

Get it know? and just by clarifying this. I'm debating this not because i think that Chara can kill Madoka. I'm debating this because this means that Asriel has a stupidly higher AP than Madoka while being in the same tier.

 

[Aurasuke]

Yeah but even those feats aren't really enough to prove that he's stronger.
Let me give a mathematically explanation of why that is.

Your assumption

Let x=infinity

madoka=x

Asriel=x

However Asriel's serious mode is 100x

Let's say whowever Asriel beat had only 20x so Asriel beat him (this is probably false, they probably be a large number but not infinite by your statement btw but this is just to prove my point)

Thus Asriel wins and beats madoka

However if I turn around the chessboard

Possible assumption

Let x=infinity

Madoka = 1000x

Asriel=x

Asriel serious=100x

Madoka wins.

Basically you assume because he defeated others who are close to infinite he is more powerful than Madoka who hasn't defeated those close to infinite. You believe that defeating higher dimensional being and being an unknown perhaps large number of times stronger than yourself at infinity, you are stronger than someone at another infinity.

However both of those feats are ranked HIgh 2-A, thus mathematically it cannot be proven.

Basically you're saying that his feats are better when they have the same tier. Another may also argue that rewriting infinite universes is more impressive, it's impossible reality to quantify.

I will quote myself to show you why "stupidly higher" ap is your assumption.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It feels kind of like we're saying that accept arguing which tier high 2-A is stronger than the other. Sure he killed other 2-A tiers, and has stats infinitely stronger than him, but Madoka did (as in actual feats), what is required to achieve the highest 2-A requirement possible without going into higher dimensions.

Correct me if I'm wrong but is Asriel's most impressive feat not toying around with tier 2-B Frisk? Sure he is scaled to High 2-A due to his stats, but in terms of feats, that's the best he had done.

Actually, affecting the laws of infinite universes is not the highest end High 2-A feat. That would be destroying/creating infinite universes or being 5-D.

Asriel's most impressive feats are:

• being acausal and able to talk to the player before he existed and after he stops existing.

• being infinite compared to 2-B and 2-A characters.

• replicating Chara's feat simply by transforming.

• overpowering Frisk's Determination and beginning to erase them from existence, whereas their Determination had previously been able to prevent their own nonexistence.

 

[SomebodyData]

Actually, affecting the laws of infinite universes is not the highest end High 2-A feat. That would be destroying/creating infinite universes or being 5-D.

Asriel's most impressive feats are:

• being acausal and able to talk to the player before he existed and after he stops existing.

• being infinite compared to 2-B and 2-A characters.

• replicating Chara's feat simply by transforming.

• overpowering Frisk's Determination and beginning to erase them from existence, whereas their Determination had previously been able to prevent their own nonexistence.

- okay

-Thats the definition of high 2-A yes

-Okay?

-These people were 2-B and 2-A yes? The ones that tried to put Frisk out of existence before? high 2-As are infinte times that in ap, soooooo not sure how that matters? (its like comparing the reality warping of a 7-B to another based n the fact that the first 7-B beat a 8-B in reality warping

 

[Aurasuke]

Actually, affecting the laws of infinite universes is not the highest end High 2-A feat. That would be destroying/creating infinite universes or being 5-D.

What about ignoring casuality of all those universes? Even though she erases those witches before they were born it causes so much inconsistency that the universe reorders itself completely differently from what one may predict.

Madoka didn't just erased the concept of witches from infinite universes. She erased the concept of witches from the past present and future evverywhere. That means that a witch who would have killed people doesn't, and girls who became magical girls to fight the concept of witches would never have needed to become them. That violates the laws of casuality (it's like a witch kills your friend, you become a magical girl to kill that witch. You kill that witch but then after 100 years you become a witch and kill someone else. Basically if that witch never killed your friend you would never have chosen to become a magical girl and never chosen to become a magical girl and you would have never become a witch in the first place.

She overwritten that level of inconsistency in each and every universe, an infinite number of them, that means that she had essentially rewritten the entire universe ignoring all casuality.

Asriel's most impressive feats are:

• being acausal and able to talk to the player before he existed and after he stops existing.
• Madoka erased her own future self's existence, that seems more paradoxical in a way, yet she continues to exist even after she killed her future witch self.
• being infinite compared to 2-B and 2-A characters.
• True but not really a feat, more like powerscaling in a way, though it's a game so stats don't always mean everything (for instance some of the lower tiers have att and def of like 20 or something and they are only tier 7-A) But I'll take it as power scaling from Chara then.
• replicating Chara's feat simply by transforming.
• Not sure which feat but K, Chara's tier 2-B
• overpowering Frisk's Determination and beginning to erase them from existence, whereas their Determination had previously been able to prevent their own nonexistence.
• Okay, so he overpowered a 2-B and began erasing them, but they convinced him otherwise, so he never actually killed them even if he could.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Yeah but even those feats aren't really enough to prove that he's stronger.
Let me give a mathematically explanation of why that is.

Your assumption

Let x=infinity

madoka=x

Asriel=x

However Asriel's serious mode is 100x

Let's say whowever Asriel beat had only 20x so Asriel beat him (this is probably false, they probably be a large number but not infinite by your statement btw but this is just to prove my point)

Thus Asriel wins and beats madoka

However if I turn around the chessboard

Possible assumption

Let x=infinity

Madoka = 1000x

Asriel=x

Asriel serious=100x

Madoka wins.

Basically you assume because he defeated others who are close to infinite he is more powerful than Madoka who hasn't defeated those close to infinite. You believe that defeating higher dimensional being and being an unknown perhaps large number of times stronger than yourself at infinity, you are stronger than someone at another infinity.

However both of those feats are ranked HIgh 2-A, thus mathematically it cannot be proven.

Basically you're saying that his feats are better when they have the same tier. Another may also argue that rewriting infinite universes is more impressive, it's impossible reality to quantify.

I will quote myself to show you why "stupidly higher" ap is your assumption.

Do i seriously need to keep telling you why reality warp something is not the same what Chara, Flowey and Asriel did?

Also. Mathematically that doesn't make any sense. Infinite x 2000 is still infinite. The same way as infinite x 3000 is still infinite. You can't use mathematics problems to resolve conflicts between unquantificable beings.

 

[Tzula]

Chara exists on a far another level.. just saying

Flowery could destroy Undertale using the ability to destroy a save file.

Destroyed a save.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

- okay

-Thats the definition of high 2-A yes

-Okay?

-These people were 2-B and 2-A yes? The ones that tried to put Frisk out of existence before? high 2-As are infinte times that in ap, soooooo not sure how that matters?

2. It was treated as though that itself wasn't a feat, which I wanted to point out it was.

3. Chara destroyed countless timelines in one attack. Asriel did this when he transformed. That's what said feat was.

4. Yes, they are infinite, but that doesn't matter with Determination, because it doesn't care about direct AP. The point is Asriel was able to actually start negating it, which is a really big deal. The only one to do something like that before was God Flowey, and that was against a weaker, less determined Frisk.

 

[Aurasuke]

To be honest in my opnion reality warping> destructive ability
As reality warping negates durability if your opponent cannot reality warp or reality warp to your degree of power.

I can erase a building instantly using reality warp and any volume that is comparable to a bulding regardless of the substance it's made from or what atrributes it has (I can erase a building of diamond, or a building of sand the same way). vs one can erase a building via my fist.

Assume we both travel at normal human speeds.

If I can erase a building and you have no level of reality warping defense, then I can erase you just as easily as your volume is less then that of a building and you have no reality warping defenses.

I'm going to keep quoting myself because I believe all your questions have already been answered but you just refuse to take the answer I give you.

You don't seem to understand calculus indeterminant forms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indeterminate_form

Here's a link, you can see now that you think Asriel's level is higher in serious mode when there is no way to quantify it because we don't know what Madoka's "equation is" or Asriel's "equation".

 

[Tzula]

Can someone respond to me?

 

[SomebodyData]

Chara exists on a far another level.. just saying
Flowery could destroy Undertale using the ability to destroy a save file.

Destroyed a save.

A timeline yes, isn't that a low 2-C feat?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

What about ignoring casuality of all those universes? Even though she erases those witches before they were born it causes so much inconsistency that the universe reorders itself completely differently from what one may predict.

Madoka didn't just erased the concept of witches from infinite universes. She erased the concept of witches from the past present and future evverywhere. That means that a witch who would have killed people doesn't, and girls who became magical girls to fight the concept of witches would never have needed to become them. That violates the laws of casuality (it's like a witch kills your friend, you become a magical girl to kill that witch. You kill that witch but then after 100 years you become a witch and kill someone else. Basically if that witch never killed your friend you would never have chosen to become a magical girl and never chosen to become a magical girl and you would have never become a witch in the first place.

She overwritten that level of inconsistency in each and every universe, an infinite number of them, that means that she had essentially rewritten the entire universe ignoring all casuality.

• Madoka erased her own future self's existence, that seems more paradoxical in a way, yet she continues to exist even after she killed her future witch self.
• True but not really a feat, more like powerscaling in a way, though it's a game so stats don't always mean everything (for instance some of the lower tiers have att and def of like 20 or something and they are only tier 7-A) But I'll take it as power scaling from Chara then.
• Not sure which feat but K, Chara's tier 2-B
• Okay, so he overpowered a 2-B and began erasing them, but they convinced him otherwise, so he never actually killed them even if he could.

That's still unimpressive by High 2-A standards. Like I said, causality is trivial to anything higher dimensional.

• I never argued she didn't do this. In fact, I believe I mentioned it, earlier.

• It is indeed a feat. Being infinite compared to something else and then demonstrating it is a feat. Also, Chara destroyed countless timelines with an attack of 99. Asriel's attack value is infinity.

• Yes, which is why I mentioned that he did it by simply showing his real power and not through any actual effort.

• Did you miss the part where Frisk has High 2-A level defenses? He also killed them multiple times, just not enough to fully erase them, and that's only becaue they convinced him to stop. Hell, halfway through he stopped trying because he felt guilty.

 

[Tzula]

Chara exists on a far another level.. just saying
Flowery could destroy Undertale using the ability to destroy a save file.

Destroyed a save.

A timeline yes, isn't that a low 2-C feat?

Flowery exist in all timelines.. Like he can jump

So.. Ill create a thread for that.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

A timeline yes, isn't that a low 2-C feat?

Yes, it is. That's far from the best feat, though, as someone far, far weaker than him destroyed countless ones.

 

[Aurasuke]

- okay

-Thats the definition of high 2-A yes

-Okay?

-These people were 2-B and 2-A yes? The ones that tried to put Frisk out of existence before? high 2-As are infinte times that in ap, soooooo not sure how that matters?

2. It was treated as though that itself wasn't a feat, which I wanted to point out it was.
3. Chara destroyed countless timelines in one attack. Asriel did this when he transformed. That's what said feat was.

4. Yes, they are infinite, but that doesn't matter with Determination, because it doesn't care about direct AP. The point is Asriel was able to actually start negating it, which is a really big deal. The only one to do something like that before was God Flowey, and that was against a weaker, less determined Frisk.

Yeah but basically Asriel's best 'feat" (not power scaling via stats I mean) was beating Frisk until he had like 0.000001 HP left.

Thing about determination doesn't care about AP is kind of a NLF especially with tiers that above High 3-A as most others have even better reality warping powers (For example magic gods in index are infinitely stronger than Othinius who is low 2-C (even though she can rewrite over 10 000 realities with a snap of her fingers with no actual effort, though not all at once because fo the way the series made it). magic gods tier High 2-A can pretty much rewrite anything so saying they can't overwite Frisks's determination with magic despite being a higher tier is kind of a NLF.

 

[Tzula]

A timeline yes, isn't that a low 2-C feat?

Yes, it is. That's far from the best feat, though, as someone far, far weaker than him destroyed countless ones.

He could crash your game.

...

nuff said,..

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

To be honest in my opnion reality warping> destructive ability
As reality warping negates durability if your opponent cannot reality warp or reality warp to your degree of power.

I can erase a building instantly using reality warp and any volume that is comparable to a bulding regardless of the substance it's made from or what atrributes it has (I can erase a building of diamond, or a building of sand the same way). vs one can erase a building via my fist.

Assume we both travel at normal human speeds.

If I can erase a building and you have no level of reality warping defense, then I can erase you just as easily as your volume is less then that of a building and you have no reality warping defenses.

I'm going to keep quoting myself because I believe all your questions have already been answered but you just refuse to take the answer I give you.

That example wasn't valid before and still isn't valid. For the simple reason that you are trying to compare "rewrite" with "erase" which are to different things. The fact that Madoka and Homura could rewrite the multiverse isn't equivalent that they could erase it. Following your example. Madoka can change the form, size and shape of the building. But not erase it. Meanwhile Asriel can just destroyed it. You can argue about that the first example is more useful and such. But Asriel has higher AP regardless.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yeah but basically Asriel's best 'feat" (not power scaling via stats I mean) was beating Frisk until he had like 0.000001 HP left.

Thing about determination doesn't care about AP is kind of a NLF especially with tiers that above High 3-A as most others have even better reality warping powers (For example magic gods in index are infinitely stronger than Othinius who is low 2-C (even though she can rewrite over 10 000 realities with a snap of her fingers with no actual effort, though not all at once because fo the way the series made it). magic gods tier High 2-A can pretty much rewrite anything so saying they can't overwite Frisks's determination with magic despite being a higher tier is kind of a NLF.

Um, no? He killed Frisk repeatedly during the course of the fight. He even mentiones it in the dialogue I used as his quote. Like I said, he only reduced them to that health when he stopped trying his hardest due to guilt.

How is that a NLF? I didn't say tier 1s couldn't do anything to it. All I said is it doesn't care about AP, which anything above tier 2 doesn't really either due to hax. Also, the Magic Gods likely COULDN'T overwrite Frisk's Determination. Asriel is at least Magic God level, and as I just told you, he had to kill them multiple times in order to do so.

 

[Tzula]

Again... Crashed your game...

 

[Blahblah9755]

2. It was treated as though that itself wasn't a feat, which I wanted to point out it was.
3. Chara destroyed countless timelines in one attack. Asriel did this when he transformed. That's what said feat was.

4. Yes, they are infinite, but that doesn't matter with Determination, because it doesn't care about direct AP. The point is Asriel was able to actually start negating it, which is a really big deal. The only one to do something like that before was God Flowey, and that was against a weaker, less determined Frisk.

Yeah but basically Asriel's best 'feat" (not power scaling via stats I mean) was beating Frisk until he had like 0.000001 HP left.

Thing about determination doesn't care about AP is kind of a NLF especially with tiers that above High 3-A as most others have even better reality warping powers (For example magic gods in index are infinitely stronger than Othinius who is low 2-C (even though she can rewrite over 10 000 realities with a snap of her fingers with no actual effort, though not all at once because fo the way the series made it). magic gods tier High 2-A can pretty much rewrite anything so saying they can't overwite Frisks's determination with magic despite being a higher tier is kind of a NLF.

FRisk's determination let's him survive blows up to the level of high 2-A as well as reset if he dies to blows of that level

 

[Aurasuke]

That's still unimpressive by High 2-A standards. Like I said, causality is trivial to anything higher dimensional.

• I never argued she didn't do this. In fact, I believe I mentioned it, earlier.
• I think I was talking to that alice person for this.
• It is indeed a feat. Being infinite compared to something else and then demonstrating it is a feat. Also, Chara destroyed countless timelines with an attack of 99. Asriel's attack value is infinity.
• Well countless=finite number hence the 2-B rating.
• Yes, which is why I mentioned that he did it by simply showing his real power and not through any actual effort.
• Yeah his stats were infinite but then again in video games stats don't always scale. For instance in xenoblade chronicles a bunch of super bosses that were optional were much harder to kill than the main boss who was tier 2-C. Does that mean those monsters were tier 2-A then? Anyway, that's why I say that this is a powerscale at best not really a feat. A feat is something that is done and has an effect. He kind of just let Frisk win if I'm not mistaken.
• Did you miss the part where Frisk has High 2-A level defenses? He also killed them multiple times, just not enough to fully erase them, and that's only becaue they convinced him to stop. Hell, halfway through he stopped trying because he felt guilty
• Is this on the profile page though? If it's not I think it should be updated if everyone agrees.

 

[Tzula]

Frisk should be above asriel then..?

 

[Blahblah9755]

Frisk should be above asriel then..?

No Asriel let Frisk win, Frisk literally did nothing but stay determined

 

[Aurasuke]

Um, no? He killed Frisk repeatedly during the course of the fight. He even mentiones it in the dialogue I used as his quote. Like I said, he only reduced them to that health when he stopped trying his hardest due to guilt.

So a High 2-A character was able to kill a 2-B character repeatedly but somehow the 2-B character suvives because the player himself loaded a save or something?

How is that a NLF? I didn't say tier 1s couldn't do anything to it. All I said is it doesn't care about AP, which anything above tier 2 doesn't really either due to hax. Also, the Magic Gods likely COULDN'T overwrite Frisk's Determination. Asriel is at least Magic God level, and as I just told you, he had to kill them multiple times in order to do so.

Well Asriel hasn't manipulated reality as freely as the magic gods have. He's only been powered scaled to Chara. Othinius alone could rewrite reality as many times as she wanted, and the other Magic gods are infinitely stronger than her. When they use magic they can literally do anything that doesn't affect higher dimensions such as 13. (because the author never actually uses higher dimensions and follows string theory for 11 dimensional calculations)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

• I think I was talking to that alice person for this.
• Well countless=finite number hence the 2-B rating.
• Yeah his stats were infinite but then again in video games stats don't always scale. For instance in xenoblade chronicles a bunch of super bosses that were optional were much harder to kill than the main boss who was tier 2-C. Does that mean those monsters were tier 2-A then? Anyway, that's why I say that this is a powerscale at best not really a feat. A feat is something that is done and has an effect. He kind of just let Frisk win if I'm not mistaken.
• Is this on the profile page though? If it's not I think it should be updated if everyone agrees.

• Ah, okay.

• Yes, but countless x infinity is infinity.

• I've commented on this multiple times, actually. If someone with 99/99 can destroy countless timelines, whereas someone with 25/26 is city level, I think it's safe to say infinite is infinite. Stats not being linear makes it even more impressive. He also didn't let Frisk win. He stopped fighting.

• It is. Check their durability.

 

[Tzula]

Frisk should be above asriel then..?

No Asriel let Frisk win, Frisk literally did nothing but stay determined

Er.. He didn't let him win.

Asriel just couldent fight back. His determination was too strong/

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So a High 2-A character was able to kill a 2-B character repeatedly but somehow the 2-B character suvives because the player himself loaded a save or something?

Well Asriel hasn't manipulated reality as freely as the magic gods have. He's only been powered scaled to Chara. Othinius alone could rewrite reality as many times as she wanted, and the other Magic gods are infinitely stronger than her. When they use magic they can literally do anything that doesn't affect higher dimensions such as 13. (because the author never actually uses higher dimensions and follows string theory for 11 dimensional calculations)

No, because the 2-B character has High 2-A durability.

Characters far below Asriel have destructive feats far beyond Othinius, so I don't see how that matters.

The Magic Gods can't affect dimensions above 5. You can ask DontTalk about this. He's explained it many, many times.

 

[Blahblah9755]

@Aura I don't know if this has been explained or not yet, but when you check stats, the volume given is the character's canon power, not necessarily their in game stat, that's why stat scaling is allowed for Undertale, but not something like Xenoblade

 

[Tzula]

So a High 2-A character was able to kill a 2-B character repeatedly but somehow the 2-B character suvives because the player himself loaded a save or something?

Well Asriel hasn't manipulated reality as freely as the magic gods have. He's only been powered scaled to Chara. Othinius alone could rewrite reality as many times as she wanted, and the other Magic gods are infinitely stronger than her. When they use magic they can literally do anything that doesn't affect higher dimensions such as 13. (because the author never actually uses higher dimensions and follows string theory for 11 dimensional calculations)

No, because the 2-B character has High 2-A durability.

Characters far below Asriel have destructive feats far beyond Othinius, so I don't see how that matters.

The Magic Gods can't affect dimensions above 5. You can ask DontTalk about this. He's explained it many, many times.

Can I get a TLR? Anyone?

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