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actually, that time, and agaisnt the raikage. he put him to sleep, midbattle. that counts.
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Madara vs Gilgamesh
- Thread starter Theglassman12
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Where was it shown that PS is faster than the user? Vimana is faster regardless because you don't equalize speed amps. Thats like saying in a speed equal match A's x2 speed amp gets equaled to B's x6 speed amp.
The situation that he was completely dominating seconds prior, RM which is the human's ultimate battlefield, which only got brought out because a dead guy showed up to screw Gil over.
Madara doesn't whip out PS immediately and still can't tag Gil.
Being strong enough to survive GoB for a while = serious Gil = Gil respects them = Ea to the face. This is the guy who saw his BFF and said hello with his planet busting rolling pin.
The situation that he was completely dominating seconds prior, RM which is the human's ultimate battlefield, which only got brought out because a dead guy showed up to screw Gil over.
Madara doesn't whip out PS immediately and still can't tag Gil.
Being strong enough to survive GoB for a while = serious Gil = Gil respects them = Ea to the face. This is the guy who saw his BFF and said hello with his planet busting rolling pin.
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Madara puts him to sleep like I said
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Sharingan gets resisted by Gil even without his MR. Mokuton actually has a chance if Gil is still on the ground but Onoki resisted that stuff for a few seconds with just willpower (Gil has this in spades), more than enough time to use any of his many "one potion cures all" antidotes.
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if he goes to sleep, there isnt gonna be any fighting back tho....
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He doesn't go to sleep though. One gets resisted by both Gil's mind and his MR, while the other gets resisted by his mind and even a potion for good measure.
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Can u explain how he actually resists sleeping tho?? I wanna know so I can find counter arguments
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Sharingan genjutsu messes with the mind via chakra. Chakra equals magic so MR from both Gil and his armor resist it. Gil's mind is also able to resist 6 billion curses and laugh it off (that supreme confidence is pretty useful). Each of the curses is able to completely melt a human mind and soul.
The Mokuton sleep spores were resisted temporarily with willpower (which we just established Gil completely dominates in). Gil also has multiple potions that cure status effects of all kinds and calls just one of these "a trinket/bauble", or something along those lines. Gil is definitely having enough time to take a potion or just hop on Vimana and fly out, making the spores useless and puts him in the sky away from Madara.
The Mokuton sleep spores were resisted temporarily with willpower (which we just established Gil completely dominates in). Gil also has multiple potions that cure status effects of all kinds and calls just one of these "a trinket/bauble", or something along those lines. Gil is definitely having enough time to take a potion or just hop on Vimana and fly out, making the spores useless and puts him in the sky away from Madara.
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Man that's PIS lol ƒÿæ. Also you know when don't give characters resistances that they never shown themselves because they can stop other harmful status effects. That's a NLF
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Who said anything about genjutsu
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No just the sleep manipulation
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PS is an all around stat buff.
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So we got an Island Level + character with a planet level move that he's most likely not gonna use vs Madara who's Continent Level+ atleast.
Uh.
Uh.
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Because Vimana isn't a speed amp, it's just a speed. Kaioken is an amp, Vimana is a vehicle that moves faster than Gil. Saying Vimana is a speed amp is like saying getting in your car is a speed amp, which is wrong. Vimana doesn't make Gil physically faster, Gil is just driving a vehicle that is faster than he is.AnonymousBlank said:
No, Cu fought Gil for like 24 hours in one of the routes and Gil never used Ea on him.
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If I use something to increase my speed then it is a speed amp, thats how amplifying works.
Gil shot at Cu for 12 hrs in the Fate route and didn't need to bring out Ea because he knows what the guy can do (remember Cu went around fighting every Servant he could find).
Gil shot at Cu for 12 hrs in the Fate route and didn't need to bring out Ea because he knows what the guy can do (remember Cu went around fighting every Servant he could find).
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It's not increasing your speed. Vimana is not making Gilgamesh faster. Gilgamesh is still MHS. Vimana is MFTL which is faster. This is like saying Shirou with weapons is making base shirou stronger, which isn't true. The weapons are the ones doing the damage, the same way Vimana is the one with the speed, not Gil.
And Gil never used EA the first time Cu fought him either.
And Gil never used EA the first time Cu fought him either.
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If the speed at which I am moving has increased then I am moving faster.
Shirou traces the srtength of the wielders so he does actually become stronger.
Gil only fought Cu once which is the 12 hrs in Fate, he already knew what the guy can do and knows he didn't need to use Ea.
Shirou traces the srtength of the wielders so he does actually become stronger.
Gil only fought Cu once which is the 12 hrs in Fate, he already knew what the guy can do and knows he didn't need to use Ea.
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That's the thing. Gilgamesh is not moving. Vimana is. Vimana's speed would be equalized to PS's speed.
Look this is straight from the rules.
"When making a speed equalized match, all speed statistics are considered equalized, including speed gained through statitstic-amplifying techniques and transformations."
I know speed amps are allowed now, but look at what is considered a speed amp. Techniques and Transformations, which Vimana is neither of. It's just a vehicle that will also be subjected to the rule.
What? I thought Shirou could only trace swords, since when could he copy the power of the wielder?
I'm kinda confused at what you're saying. I mentioned how Gil fought Cu for 12 hours without using Ea then you said that Cu fought him earlier. My point still stands that in neither of these times Gilgamesh used Ea on someone that could survive GoB for some time.
Look this is straight from the rules.
"When making a speed equalized match, all speed statistics are considered equalized, including speed gained through statitstic-amplifying techniques and transformations."
I know speed amps are allowed now, but look at what is considered a speed amp. Techniques and Transformations, which Vimana is neither of. It's just a vehicle that will also be subjected to the rule.
What? I thought Shirou could only trace swords, since when could he copy the power of the wielder?
I'm kinda confused at what you're saying. I mentioned how Gil fought Cu for 12 hours without using Ea then you said that Cu fought him earlier. My point still stands that in neither of these times Gilgamesh used Ea on someone that could survive GoB for some time.
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Speed amps don't get equalized to each other as that makes them completely pointless to have if everyone is still the same speed. That is either wrong or completely asinine. Plus PS has never shown to amp speed anyway, only AP, range and durability.
Shirou traces the strength, speed and skill of the wielder so that he can fight like them, thats why when he traces Herc's axe-sword he also traces his strength so he can wield it and pull off NLBW.
Cu never fought Gil before the 12 hour fight, he did however fight all the servants in the 5HGW. Cu didnt know Gil even existed before Kirei called him out and Gil has been watching the fights in the war like a show which is why he knows what Cu can do already.
Shirou traces the strength, speed and skill of the wielder so that he can fight like them, thats why when he traces Herc's axe-sword he also traces his strength so he can wield it and pull off NLBW.
Cu never fought Gil before the 12 hour fight, he did however fight all the servants in the 5HGW. Cu didnt know Gil even existed before Kirei called him out and Gil has been watching the fights in the war like a show which is why he knows what Cu can do already.
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I just said it wasn't a speed amp. The only things considered speed amps are techniques and transformations. Getting on a spaceship isn't either of those.
Okay. However, Gilgamesh getting on Vimana does not give him the ability to run at MFTL speeds.
I don't see what the point of this is. You said he would use it on Madara because Madara could survive against GoB. Since Cu also could survive against GoB, and he didn't use it against Cu, him knowing what Cu can do doesn't mean anything because you didn't say he would use it on Madara because he doesn't know about Madara you said he would do it because of Madara's abililty to survive against GoB.
Okay. However, Gilgamesh getting on Vimana does not give him the ability to run at MFTL speeds.
I don't see what the point of this is. You said he would use it on Madara because Madara could survive against GoB. Since Cu also could survive against GoB, and he didn't use it against Cu, him knowing what Cu can do doesn't mean anything because you didn't say he would use it on Madara because he doesn't know about Madara you said he would do it because of Madara's abililty to survive against GoB.
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Sigh
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Doesn't really matter since Vimana is gear and not a tech/transformation.
Knowing what Cu can do is precisely why Gil won't bother using Ea, because he knows it isn't needed.
Against Madara, Susanoo (if it gets to that point) is shrugging off absolutely everything from GoB with barely a scratch from high tier stuff, Gil is breaking out his tier 0 crap like Ea and nuking the world pretty quickly.
Knowing what Cu can do is precisely why Gil won't bother using Ea, because he knows it isn't needed.
Against Madara, Susanoo (if it gets to that point) is shrugging off absolutely everything from GoB with barely a scratch from high tier stuff, Gil is breaking out his tier 0 crap like Ea and nuking the world pretty quickly.
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That's my point. It's not tech or a transformation so it's not a speed amp. So it gets equalized.
So because someone he doesn't know survive one blast of weapons, he uses EA?
Why is Susano'o "If it gets to that point"? Not sure if you were one of them, but multiple people said Madara would not be able to dodge Gil's attacks. So Madara's precog will let him know that the weapons are coming at directions/speeds he won't be able to react to in order to knock them all away in time. So instead of getting hit, he'll pull out the Susano'o and swing, killing Gilgamesh. Well for one, Gilgamesh has never destroyed the planet and I'm pretty sure it's OOC for him to go for a planet bust and two, it is a literal weakness on Gilgamesh's profile that he is arrogant to the point of holding back extremely.
"Gilgamesh is insufferably arrogant and will thus almost always hold back unless he sees his opponent as entertaining or worthy of his power. His arrogance makes him unlikely to use Enuma Elish at its full power, unless facing a worthy opponent."
You're arguing that Gilgamesh will have enough time to attack Madara while holding back, attack Madara again while not holding back, and then charge up EA without getting attacked by Madara even once.
So because someone he doesn't know survive one blast of weapons, he uses EA?
Why is Susano'o "If it gets to that point"? Not sure if you were one of them, but multiple people said Madara would not be able to dodge Gil's attacks. So Madara's precog will let him know that the weapons are coming at directions/speeds he won't be able to react to in order to knock them all away in time. So instead of getting hit, he'll pull out the Susano'o and swing, killing Gilgamesh. Well for one, Gilgamesh has never destroyed the planet and I'm pretty sure it's OOC for him to go for a planet bust and two, it is a literal weakness on Gilgamesh's profile that he is arrogant to the point of holding back extremely.
"Gilgamesh is insufferably arrogant and will thus almost always hold back unless he sees his opponent as entertaining or worthy of his power. His arrogance makes him unlikely to use Enuma Elish at its full power, unless facing a worthy opponent."
You're arguing that Gilgamesh will have enough time to attack Madara while holding back, attack Madara again while not holding back, and then charge up EA without getting attacked by Madara even once.
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anybody know the votes?
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- Thread starter
- #267
@Lorenzo look at the OP
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Man I voted for Madara a while back
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what was your reasoning?
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He reset the votes after changing the distance.
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One vote for each person
270 posts in
What a garbage thread
270 posts in
What a garbage thread
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Sleep manipulation was my reasoning
ABoogieYesSir
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Madara FRA
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Magic resistance beats sharingan based sleep manipulation and as shown by onoki willpower can resist mokuton based sleep manipulation gilgamesh definitely has more willpower than onoki so
As for how the fight would go because if the distance Gil can spam gob at first then after seeing madara dodge use enkidu and skewer him if madara manages to get somewhere within like 100 meters gil will pull out one of his ships (either the mftl one or the speed of thought one) then nukes from the sky. If madara uses his susano in time then Gil will see how strong it is with sni and pull out ea while madara can't touch him then proceed to 1 shot the planet cause there is no counterforce.
As for how the fight would go because if the distance Gil can spam gob at first then after seeing madara dodge use enkidu and skewer him if madara manages to get somewhere within like 100 meters gil will pull out one of his ships (either the mftl one or the speed of thought one) then nukes from the sky. If madara uses his susano in time then Gil will see how strong it is with sni and pull out ea while madara can't touch him then proceed to 1 shot the planet cause there is no counterforce.
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^ The speed is equalized. The sleep technique he is referring to isn't sharingan based. Gilgamesh has to charge his planetary technique.
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I'm pretty sure Viamana wouldn't be affected by speed equalization and even if it is then he can just use the speed of thought ship which would still be faster than madara can move. (The speed gil and madara think at would be equal but madara can't move at the speed of thought so) and i know the sleep manipulation wasn't sharingan based that's why I brought up the mokuton one which was being talked about. Ea also has the same charge time as Excalibur so it's not that long and he doesn't need to charge it to 100% he can use it at any point while charging it if he needs to.
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I don't think Gilgamesh has ever used that ship in this form (not saying he can't but that it's out of character to start with it) and he's only used Vimana once compared to all the other fights like this. (again, not saying he can't but that it's out of character to start with it.)
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Gil brought it out in Fate/Zero just so he could have a nice view of Caster's monster vs the other Servants.
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So the only time he ever started with it wasn't even because of a fight? Why would you even argue that this would be his first move then?
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