Madara vs Gilgamesh

[DragonEmperor23]

1. Because there is no such thing as basic chakra. That's why it would look weird to Madara if he saw something with chakra that had no defining qualities to it.

2. .Mystery accumulates over time and grows stronger with age. There are servants that are younger that can physically overpower older servants and have stronger noble phantasms even though they have less Mystery. This is because Mystery just makes you stronger. Let me put it in another way. Original Power + Mystery(times the length of time) = Servant's power. However, if a servant's original power is higher than the older servants even after adding in the Mystery, the younger one will still win.

3.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

1. So you have nothing then? Its just chakra but without the same differences other people have, in other words chakra. Madara isn't gonna see anything unusual if its just another person with different characteristics to someone elses (something he would be expecting).

2. Did you even read the page you linked? That perfectly aligns with what I have been saying, the greater the mystery, the greater the power.

3. What is that scan supposed to prove? All it says is that Madara has great chakra control, nothing about the PS being solid chakra through and through with no space inside it. If anything it proves that it is hollow since Madara can freely move around inside.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I mean, I feel like it is worth mentioning that servants do cap out in power. Like, original power Gil like we see in CCC is redicules, and is far above his servant form. Nero and Drake, even as """normal""" people can keep up with servants, even if Drake needs the grail to bypass the mystery she lacks. Original Power Artoria in Fate/Extra, who mind you we have not seen anything else from other than this, could take on a planet buster on her own, (you can take that with a grain of salt because its basically her only feat and the moon cell works a bit differently).

Yes, mystery does have to with it, but many people who would eventually become servants may actually be equal to or less than their servant form.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

1. That's exactly the point. To use an analogy, each person's chakra is like a wooden board that has a symbol on it. Every person has a symbol and each one is different, completely unique. Then Madara see's Gilgamesh which has no symbol. The reason why it stands out is because it has no differences, it has nothing at all.

2. Did you just read the link and not the rest of what I said about there being Noble Phantasms with lesser Mystery being stronger then ones with more mystery?

3. He isn't though, he's floating in the pentagon which is the only hollow part.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

1. And Madara has seen this blank board before? Because as it stands, its just a different chakra signature which is what he is expecting. (I still can't believe this is an argument. We never have these for any other verse lol)

2. Such as? The only thing that comes to mind rn is Excalibur which is so foreign to what mankind is capable of that it isn't funny, and it is supposed to be stupidly above other NPs anyway. Outside of Divine Constructs (or Phantasmal Species/derived from), which are obviously superior to NPs from mankind, what is there that is stronger?

3. Wait, (slightly sarcastic here) d-did you think I was saying Gil would summon a portal in PS' toe or something and shoot Madara from there? The idea is for Gil to hit Madara before he can react, I thought opening GoB in the pentagon/command room thing was the basic assumption.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

1. No, the blank board doesn't exist in his verse, that's why he reacts this way. (This is because most verse's just have the energy be energy and not actually be specific person to person)

2. Edmond Dante's Noble Phantasm is rank A+ which makes it stronger than Roman Emperor Caesar's Noble Phantasm which is ranked B+ even though a Roman Emperor should have way more mystery than someone who lived and died during the 1800s.


3. GoB's range is only several hundreds of meters and PS makes mountains look like trees in size with Madara's box being at the very top.

 

[Golfgan]

Even assuming Gilgamesh body doesn't emanate a lot of "magic"; there are the portals, the fact Gilgamesh would summon them without hand signs as well, and if Gilgamesh doesn't emanate "magic/chakra" to summon them, then it would be even more suspicious. GoB would appear to Medara as a very very large scale space-time jutsu. Also the weapons don't look like normal ones either.

The assumption Madara opens as if he is fighting Hashirama is not a stretch.

And even in the case Gilgamesh do become serious before getting hit, I'm still not sold on the Rho Aias blocks everything even though the description on his profile says "launched or throw weaponry".

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Kamui doesn't use hand signs, neither does Rasengan, top tier ninja's ignore them altogether for their more common stuff like Kakashi with Raikiri, Sasuke with Chidori, Oro throwing up a new body etc. The only thing note worthy would be it being a space time jutsu but from what Madara can see it's just a more useful sealing scroll.

The assumption that Madara opens against a guy who he can see is far weaker than himself, let alone Hashirama, is definitely a stretch. He doesn't even open with Susanoo against Hashi so that point is moot. But if you wanna play it like that, Gil treats it like he is fighting Enkidu and leads with his planet buster.

If Gil gets serious he won't bother using Rho Aias since he knows exactly what he needs to do to win. Hop on Vimana, swing Ea and fire Rule Breaker at the regening Edo Tensei to cancel it out. Or just fire Phantasmal Punishment and call Madara a mongrel.

 

[AstralKing7]

Kamui does use hand signs sometimes as shown when Kakashi first used it and even then top tier ninjas don't ignore that lmao. If they did Kabuto wouldn't need hand signs to use Edo Tensei and Naruto wouldn't need hand signs to use shadow clones

 

[DragonEmperor23]

1. Kamui isn't portals it's teleportation. Think of Sasuke and Kaguya's Amenotesomething where there's a physical portal. Except sealing scrolls have scrolls and visible seals on them. GoB is just several floating golden portals. I'm not sure what you're comparing here besides saying that Gilgamesh would start off with EA like Madara is his best friend.

2. He won't get serious though.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Kamui does have a portal though.

Golgfan said Madara would open like he is fighting Hashi (makes no sense but thats what they said), I responded by saying Gil opens like he is fighting Enkidu (his equivalent of Hashi).

He doesn't need to get serious to win but Madara is certainly capable of making him serious.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

No? The swirls appear and the user goes away. You can't walk into it, it's like an absorbing thing. Oh, well that's not what I said Madara would do or why. Yeah, but he's not going to become serious at the start of the fight which is what decides the victor.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yeah? Its the right eye or wherever the left is looking. Obito even uses it like Gil at times and spams a bunch of stuff he has stored inside.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah but that's actually part of Obito's body and there's only one. Gilgamesh has multiple floating unconnected portals.

 

[Theglassman12]

Welp, grace period is over. Time to submit this.

 

[AguilaR101]

Hop on Vimana, swing Ea

That's unlikely as hell to happen considering he never once did this against any other servants or Shirou, Vimana specially has never been summoned out of GoB during a fight the only time he used it was when he already had already summoned it, that and the fact we've never seen it being summoned on-screen might even suggest it's not a viable option during a fight that has already started.

Rule breaker is useless, Madara has already broken the Edo Tensei from his end and no longer needed Kabuto to sustain it.

There is no viable way for Gilgamesh to win without Ea or without luring Madara and trying to hit him with his space cutting Axe up close.

99% of the NPs he shoots out of GoB get completelly walled as they have no special properties that would allow them to bypass Susanoo's, Wood Release, Shinra Tensei etc, the number of them is irrelevant.

 

[Archaron]

Gilgamesh FRA

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Gilgamesh FRA

Grace ended already.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

He never needed to use it on Servants he had dead to rights. Absolutely none of them could beat a casua him, with a few exceptions using some random ass upgrade they didn't have before. Shirou is a human who he was stomping and refused to take seriously until the very last moment where he still would have won except for a bunch of random stuff interfering.

Rule Breaker cancels any thaumaturgy the blade comes in contact with, control of Edo Tensei isn't being transferred, Edo Tensei is straight up being turned off.

Literally any of the Anti-Magic/Healing NPs I named end the fight, not just Ea and Gil's axe.

It doesn't matter what has no special properties, Gil can pick whatever he wants to pull out and has shown to immediately change his ammo to something more suitable/appropriate if the normal stuff fails.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Rule Breaker cancels any thaumaturgy the blade comes in contact with, control of Edo Tensei isn't being transferred, Edo Tensei is straight up being turned off.

But when used on a servant, it only makes the Servant lose the contract with their Master and not make the Servant go back to the Throne.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Because the Servant/Master isn't what is enacting the mystery, thats what the Greater Grail is for. The only thing with the Servants/Masters is what is anchoring the fromer in the World allowing Caster to sever the connection between the two and take it for herself. Edo Tensei which is a mystery that isn't being anchored or powered by anything other than itself is getting noped.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

But the thing making a servant a servant is still magic based, why can't it cut the cord from the Grail if it negs all magic?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Been a while since I read the VN but it I'm pretty sure its because the Greater Grail is an extremely limited Heaven's Feel, which is True Magic, something Rule Breaker can't mess with.

Before anyone tries to argue Edo Tensei would be considered True Magic because it involves summoning a soul and placing it into a container, Flash Air does the same thing with dolls and that is still magecraft.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

But there's a big difference between dolls and actually pretty much letting the souls have their bodies back and pretty much being alive again. Edo Tenseis are similar to Servants.

 

[StrymEXtreme]

Gilgamesh via Servant Immunity and EA But should this to be added?

 

[YungManzi]

This is inconclusive right?

 

[Theglassman12]

yes it is. and it's already submitted

 

[Schnee_One]

Gilgamesh via Servant Immunity and EA But should this to be added?

Servant immunity is moot due to everythingadara does having Mystery.

And Ea is just lazy

This is incon