Luffy faces another electric enemy (Luffy vs Cole)

[Expectro2000xxx]

Was sort of bored and thought in this match so I'm giving it a try. Infamour 2 Cole and Beginning of Timeskip Luffy, speed unequal as both of them are Relativistic+, starting distance 100 meters, fight takes place in a desolated Empire City, in beginning Gear 4 is restricted but I can change that if people think it isn't necessary.

Monkey D. Luffy: 0

VS

Cole MacGrath: 0

Inco: 0​

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Deceived3596]

Following, will comment later.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Carfusso]

Hey, I'm not late for once

From a VERY quick readthrough of the profiles and calcs (since all I knew about Cole b4 this is that he's a lightning man and I can't be bothered to remember all 123782 One Piece calcs and scaling chains) it seems speed is even and AP goes quite confortably to Cole until Luffy pulls out Gear 3. You can correct any part of this in case it isn't true, this post is not to vote but to analize what's going on, mainly in terms of abilities. (and Idk if I will even keep up with the conversation)

I am assuming no Vampire nor ice powers for Cole, the profile isn't clear about RFI but after a short look at what it is I ASSUME it's not part of this fight.

Right out the gate a LARGE part of Cole's kit is straight up not working, as all of his lightning nonsense AND his CQC are doing an impressive amount of fk-all to Luffy, not to mention I'm pretty sure Cole would get washed in a boxing situation regardeless given the difference in CQC skill (I'm going to need more context on the lightning blades but I assume they won't work and the weapon he gets in the second game looks very much like a blunt weapon exept MAYBE the tip)

So what WILL work?
Obviously Cole will figure out very quickly that his most used attacks are useless and go for:
Explosions: should be fine from what I've seen but they seem rather slow/telegraphed
Rockets/granades: at least the non-electric parts should work
Shockwaves: should also work but the wording on the profile seems to imply that all they do is push people away so...how do they work?
Absorption: should work but given how it is used I STRONGLY doubt Cole is ever pulling that off, expecially since I see a VAST LS problem
The big if...Polarity wall: does the "transforming into energy" part work on someone trying to punch it? As funny as Luffy punching it only to immmediatly be transmuted into raw energy would be, my gut instinct tells me that it is NOT a "walk forward and nullify anything in your path" type of ability but I'm still going to ask, just to be sure. To be honest though, even if it was, I'd say that Kenbun + his instinct should be more than enough for Luffy to NOT punch the instant death shield.
On the topic of Kenbun, this time I'd say it's not as big of a factor as some other matchups IF Cole's ability to slow his perception of time is good and "spammable" but it is still a notable factor.

How I see this fight:
After an initial WTF from Cole where Luffy likely gets a couple of hits in, Cole starts to play keepaway and tries to blast Luffy with everything he has in order to figure out what works. He seems to be good at planning and using the environment...the problem with that is that Luffy has range as well, is similarly fast, will grow stronger and faster during the fight, has at least comparable stamina and can sense Cole's intentions and thoughts.
Both will have trouble putting the other down for good, either because of the regen (even assuming it's not the type that gets negated by Armament Haki I assume it can still "run out of juice") or the rubber body resistance but I do believe Luffy has a better chance to get the first KO/kill given what I said earlier + the "type matchup" that Cole has to figure out while Luffy can just "punch the other guy", however...
Cole's immortality is a big factor so I can see 3 scenarios depending on how it works:
1) It brings him back fully healed/rested/in decent shape...Cole very likely wins through attrition (the only option would be Luffy KOing him which...thinking back at it isn't all that unlikely since Luffy usually avoids killing and SBA specifies 1 hour)
2) It doesn't because Haki...Luffy wins via winning
3) It brings him back, but not in good shape...Luffy eventually wins by destroying his heart in a sad moment that only happens because this is a vs thread. (or just KOs him)

There will almost surely be stuff I missed or didn't understand properly but this is how I think the fight goes.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I am assuming no Vampire nor ice powers for Cole, the profile isn't clear about RFI but after a short look at what it is I ASSUME it's not part of this fight.

Right out the gate a LARGE part of Cole's kit is straight up not working, as all of his lightning nonsense AND his CQC are doing an impressive amount of fk-all to Luffy, not to mention I'm pretty sure Cole would get washed in a boxing situation regardeless given the difference in CQC skill (I'm going to need more context on the lightning blades but I assume they won't work and the weapon he gets in the second game looks very much like a blunt weapon exept MAYBE the tip)

Vampire powers aren't part of this Cole as I don't mention them in the op and note at the end of his profile specify that would be needed for them to be included, however the ice powers are actually included by default in what Infamour 2 Cole have as they don't have any mention of them being optional like with the Vampire powers, so the title is a bit misleading as Luffy actually faces someone with electricity AND ice.

I mean, Cole lightning is actually more than simply lightning, the heat he realese vaporize metal when casual in his weaker forms in Infamous 1, something that would already put him at the same level of Akainu vaporizing metal (I disagree with both feats being considered vap but the profiles say that so meh), while after that it continued to grow until it can burn those able to withstand a heat of 100,000,000° Celsius, so his lightning would be burning Luffy. His lightning by Infamous 2 is also capable to paralysis beings without muscles (and made of rocks) so Luffy would get affected.

There are more things to comment about Cole but I would prefer if @Deceived3596 mention them as he was the one who reworked Cole profile.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'll address @Carfusso's points before making an argument for Cole.

I am assuming no Vampire nor ice powers for Cole, the profile isn't clear about RFI but after a short look at what it is I ASSUME it's not part of this fight.

InFamous 2 Good Cole always has his Ice abilities since he absorbed Lucy's powers near the beginning of the game. So he has access to them here.

The profile does make it clear, RFI related abilities are distinctively for his RFI key. He doesn't have access to those abilities until he reaches that key.

Right out the gate a LARGE part of Cole's kit is straight up not working, as all of his lightning nonsense AND his CQC are doing an impressive amount of fk-all to Luffy, not to mention I'm pretty sure Cole would get washed in a boxing situation regardeless given the difference in CQC skill (I'm going to need more context on the lightning blades but I assume they won't work and the weapon he gets in the second game looks very much like a blunt weapon exept MAYBE the tip)

Cole's lightning vastly out scales anything in One Piece in terms of heat. As @Expectro2000xxx has already pointed out, Cole's lightning was capable of burning and harming The Beast, someone who was capable of resisting 100,000,000 temperatures from the initial explosion of a nuclear bomb. That level of heat is significantly above Enel's lightning, which is arguably only capable of outputting relative temperatures to Cole's InFamous 1 lightning, or Akainu's Manga, which currently scales to a feat that is actually lesser compared to Cole's InFamous 1 lightning since Cole's lightning was capable of vaporizing a larger amount of mass compared to Akainu's "vaporization" of some rando's sword.

Rubber, while acting as an excellent insular, can be burned, melted and vaporized. What rubber does is prevent the free movement of electrons within electricity. Plus with the fact that electrons are tightly packed together, this limits the flow of electricity and such causes electricity to flow through it without having enough time to actually burn or severely affect the rubber. But rubber isn't immune to the heat transfer of electricity. Rubber can still be burned through enough heat, that's why mechanics who wear rubber gloves while working on electrical equipment can still be burned despite the fact they're wearing rubber gloves, Rubber's an insulator, not something that negates electricity entirely.

I won't argue against the fact that Luffy's a better CQC fighter. Lightning blades would work since not only are they sharp, but they are also created through Cole's lightning, and such have relative temperatures compared to his lightning which produces enough heat to damage Luffy.

So what WILL work?
Obviously Cole will figure out very quickly that his most used attacks are useless and go for:
Explosions: should be fine from what I've seen but they seem rather slow/telegraphed
Rockets/granades: at least the non-electric parts should work
Shockwaves: should also work but the wording on the profile seems to imply that all they do is push people away so...how do they work?
Absorption: should work but given how it is used I STRONGLY doubt Cole is ever pulling that off, expecially since I see a VAST LS problem
The big if...Polarity wall: does the "transforming into energy" part work on someone trying to punch it? As funny as Luffy punching it only to immmediatly be transmuted into raw energy would be, my gut instinct tells me that it is NOT a "walk forward and nullify anything in your path" type of ability but I'm still going to ask, just to be sure. To be honest though, even if it was, I'd say that Kenbun + his instinct should be more than enough for Luffy to NOT punch the instant death shield.
On the topic of Kenbun, t

Explosions would be more used for AOE spam rather than specifically focusing on Luffy.

He can push people away, deflect physical attacks, coat lightning into those shockwaves, dealing concussive and electrical damage etc etcetera.

Cole doesn't use his bio-electricity absorption in this key, that's more so something Evil Karma Cole would do.

Polarity Wall's functionality is weird outside of InFamous, while in game it doesn't work on physical strikes, such as punches or kicks. With how the ability itself is explained, it would definitely work on physical strikes since what it does is transform physical objects into electrical energy, which Cole than passively absorbs into himself. Me personally, I just believe that's a classic case of game mechanics weakening an ability so it doesn't become too overpowered. I would argue that it's capable of affecting Luffy's actual body.

I'm not entirely sure if Kenbun would alert him to the fact that this shield could deconstruct him if he interacts with it. It would allow him to read Cole's mind, sure. I'm just not that convinced Kenbun's danger sense would be good enough for him to know that specific property of Cole's Polarity Wall.

I could equally see him trying to punch through the thing given the fact he's facing someone who uses lightning, an element which is normally, heavily counted by his sheer physiology.

How I see this fight:
After an initial WTF from Cole where Luffy likely gets a couple of hits in, Cole starts to play keepaway and tries to blast Luffy with everything he has in order to figure out what works. He seems to be good at planning and using the environment...the problem with that is that Luffy has range as well, is similarly fast, will grow stronger and faster during the fight, has at least comparable stamina and can sense Cole's intentions and thoughts.
Both will have trouble putting the other down for good, either because of the regen (even assuming it's not the type that gets negated by Armament Haki I assume it can still "run out of juice") or the rubber body resistance but I do believe Luffy has a better chance to get the first KO/kill given what I said earlier + the "type matchup" that Cole has to figure out while Luffy can just "punch the other guy", however...

Armament's regeneration negation only works on regeneration which is gained through "un-natural means", such as Devil Fruits. Cole's regeneration works through his Conduit gene, which isn't "un-natural" to his physiology, unlike Marco's Devil Fruit. So it wouldn't work against his regeneration.

I'll effectively address the rest when I make my argument for Cole winning, so I won't address it here.

 

[Carfusso]

This might be my last long post in a while, again, calling more people in here would be beneficial

Expectro2000xxx
Vampire powers aren't part of this Cole as I don't mention them in the op and note at the end of his profile specify that would be needed for them to be included, however the ice powers are actually included by default in what Infamour 2 Cole have as they don't have any mention of them being optional like with the Vampire powers, so the title is a bit misleading as Luffy actually faces someone with electricity AND ice.

Deceived3596
InFamous 2 Good Cole always has his Ice abilities since he absorbed Lucy's powers near the beginning of the game. So he has access to them here.

The profile does make it clear, RFI related abilities are distinctively for his RFI key. He doesn't have access to those abilities until he reaches that key.

Well the profile very much does not say "all previous abilities" in the ice powers section, not to mention that in the comments of the video (the only thing giving me even the slightest bit of context here) they straight up say they are "swapping" powers, and (INCREDIBLY minor thing that could be wrong) the fact that the video is a "part 22" makes me doubt this happens close to the beginning of the game. Couple that with the fact that every single video or comic I saw out there had Cole exclusively use his lightning powers gives me a bad feeling about this. I am open to being wrong obviously but in that case you may need to re-word some stuff while adding some actual proof.

I'm sorry to say that but what the profile does is anything but "making it clear". It merely lists "vampire Cole" with "All Abilities From His InFamous 2 Key Including:", "Ice Cole" with "All the powers of Lucy Kuo" and "RFI Cole" with "All Previous Powers From His InFamous 2 Key Even More Enhanced" as extra keys inside his InFamous 2 key without bothering to add anything about whether they are optional, happen at different parts of the story, are triggered by some special nonsense or....anything else (exept vampire Cole at the end, that was the 1 part I was sure was not included)

Expectro2000xxx
I mean, Cole lightning is actually more than simply lightning, the heat he realese vaporize metal when casual in his weaker forms in Infamous 1, something that would already put him at the same level of Akainu vaporizing metal (I disagree with both feats being considered vap but the profiles say that so meh), while after that it continued to grow until it can burn those able to withstand a heat of 100,000,000° Celsius, so his lightning would be burning Luffy. His lightning by Infamous 2 is also capable to paralysis beings without muscles (and made of rocks) so Luffy would get affected.

Deceived3596
Cole's lightning vastly out scales anything in One Piece in terms of heat. As @Expectro2000xxx has already pointed out, Cole's lightning was capable of burning and harming The Beast, someone who was capable of resisting 100,000,000 temperatures from the initial explosion of a nuclear bomb. That level of heat is significantly above Enel's lightning, which is arguably only capable of outputting relative temperatures to Cole's InFamous 1 lightning, or Akainu's Manga, which currently scales to a feat that is actually lesser compared to Cole's InFamous 1 lightning since Cole's lightning was capable of vaporizing a larger amount of mass compared to Akainu's "vaporization" of some rando's sword.

Rubber, while acting as an excellent insular, can be burned, melted and vaporized. What rubber does is prevent the free movement of electrons within electricity. Plus with the fact that electrons are tightly packed together, this limits the flow of electricity and such causes electricity to flow through it without having enough time to actually burn or severely affect the rubber. But rubber isn't immune to the heat transfer of electricity. Rubber can still be burned through enough heat, that's why mechanics who wear rubber gloves while working on electrical equipment can still be burned despite the fact they're wearing rubber gloves, Rubber's an insulator, not something that negates electricity entirely.

The heat is a fair point (I think), you may want to call some more One Piece people here since I never cared too much about actual numbers, I focus on the abilities mainly. (Stat equalized matches should 100% be accepted on profiles, once some standards are given, and I will die on this hill)
What I can say however is that:
1) Paralysis works only IF his electricity gets conducted through the body which is not happening.
2) The fact that Luffy never got hurt by the heat of Enel's strongest lightining attacks but he got hurt (in a key with VASTLY inferior heat resistance AND no haki) by Enel very casually melting gold makes me think that he's not getting burned by Cole's lightning hitting him but may be burned if Cole does some weird BS that makes everything around him super hot. His resistance seems to be more of a supernatural immunity (which, given his fuit, now makes more sense) that can only be overpowered by someone several orders of magnitude more powerful than he is rather than a scientific "rubber doesn't conduct" sort of thing.
3) Cole hurting the beast, even assuming heat was involved in the whole "dealing damage" part, was (at least given what I was shown) after a MASSIVE and telegraphed attack, clearly way stronger than Cole's regular lightining... and that is never hitting Luffy in a million years, regardeless if what I said in point 2 is true or not.
4) All I know about the scaling for the Akainu part is that the vaporizing is just the ambient heat, not him actually hitting you.

I won't argue against the fact that Luffy's a better CQC fighter. Lightning blades would work since not only are they sharp, but they are also created through Cole's lightning, and such have relative temperatures compared to his lightning which produces enough heat to damage Luffy.

That's why I asked for context and...Idk, they are still completely made out of lightning and that makes it...weird since I doubt they can directly affect him. Now, if Cole were to plunge them into...Idk...some metal laying around and throw that at Luffy with his magnetic BS (I have no idea if Cole can actually do that) we could be talking but otherwise I'm not sure.


Explosions would be more used for AOE spam rather than specifically focusing on Luffy

He can push people away, deflect physical attacks, coat lightning into those shockwaves, dealing concussive and electrical damage etc etcetera.

Cool, though concussive and electrical damage makes me once again question how useful it'd be beyond a "get off me" option.

Cole doesn't use his bio-electricity absorption in this key, that's more so something Evil Karma Cole would do.

Fair, I just saw him do that in the video and felt like it needed to be addressed given it is listed as a "neutral" ability

Polarity Wall's functionality is weird outside of InFamous, while in game it doesn't work on physical strikes, such as punches or kicks. With how the ability itself is explained, it would definitely work on physical strikes since what it does is transform physical objects into electrical energy, which Cole than passively absorbs into himself. Me personally, I just believe that's a classic case of game mechanics weakening an ability so it doesn't become too overpowered. I would argue that it's capable of affecting Luffy's actual body.

Meh...Idk if we can say that given the only in-universe showings are apparently that it doesn't work on "punch", a generous interpretation of the WORDING of the ability kind of implies that yes but even in its explanation video it is only ever shown to work against projectiles....I'm not convinced.

I'm not entirely sure if Kenbun would alert him to the fact that this shield could deconstruct him if he interacts with it. It would allow him to read Cole's mind, sure. I'm just not that convinced Kenbun's danger sense would be good enough for him to know that specific property of Cole's Polarity Wall.

I could equally see him trying to punch through the thing given the fact he's facing someone who uses lightning, an element which is normally, heavily counted by his sheer physiology.

Well assuming polarity wall works like you say, Cole activates it while thinking "nyehehehehe this idiot is about to turn into a battery" so kenbun lets Luffy hear that and go "fk this, I'm not punching", he could do that in marineford where his initial, uncontrolled kenbun made him realize that attacking Mihawk is a VERY stupid idea so there's on reason it wouldn't work here.

Armament's regeneration negation only works on regeneration which is gained through "un-natural means", such as Devil Fruits. Cole's regeneration works through his Conduit gene, which isn't "un-natural" to his physiology, unlike Marco's Devil Fruit. So it wouldn't work against his regeneration.

I don't know enough about InFamous to properly keep arguing but I will say that Devil Fruits are copied by using the "lineage factor" which is legit just your DNA so....eh...maybe.
Again calling more people from both sides might help.

 

[Deceived3596]

Well the profile very much does not say "all previous abilities" in the ice powers section, not to mention that in the comments of the video (the only thing giving me even the slightest bit of context here) they straight up say they are "swapping" powers, and (INCREDIBLY minor thing that could be wrong) the fact that the video is a "part 22" makes me doubt this happens close to the beginning of the game. Couple that with the fact that every single video or comic I saw out there had Cole exclusively use his lightning powers gives me a bad feeling about this. I am open to being wrong obviously but in that case you may need to re-word some stuff while adding some actual proof.

I'm sorry to say that but what the profile does is anything but "making it clear". It merely lists "vampire Cole" with "All Abilities From His InFamous 2 Key Including:", "Ice Cole" with "All the powers of Lucy Kuo" and "RFI Cole" with "All Previous Powers From His InFamous 2 Key Even More Enhanced" as extra keys inside his InFamous 2 key without bothering to add anything about whether they are optional, happen at different parts of the story, are triggered by some special nonsense or....anything else (exept vampire Cole at the end, that was the 1 part I was sure was not included)

It doesn't say that because it's not a separate key, it's a part of the same exact key, but it's separated into a different tabber for easier readability. Cole doesn't "swap" powers in the sense that Lucy gained his Electricity Manipulation and he gained her Ice Manipulation. It's probably talking about Cole switching between his Ice abilities and Electricity abilities, which you do when you're playing the game. Dude, we visually see and use those powers while playing the game, you can even check his profile as I've linked multiple videos of him using his Ice abilities. Cole also doesn't have access to his Ice abilities in the comics because all of them happen before InFamous 2 even occurs chronologically. All of those comics happen during the InFamous 1 era, when he was still in Empire City.

We can just agree to disagree on this point since it doesn't actually pertain to this debate.

The heat is a fair point (I think), you may want to call some more One Piece people here since I never cared too much about actual numbers, I focus on the abilities mainly. (Stat equalized matches should 100% be accepted on profiles, once some standards are given, and I will die on this hill)
What I can say however is that:
1) Paralysis works only IF his electricity gets conducted through the body which is not happening.
2) The fact that Luffy never got hurt by the heat of Enel's strongest lightining attacks but he got hurt (in a key with VASTLY inferior heat resistance AND no haki) by Enel very casually melting gold makes me think that he's not getting burned by Cole's lightning hitting him but may be burned if Cole does some weird BS that makes everything around him super hot. His resistance seems to be more of a supernatural immunity (which, given his fuit, now makes more sense) that can only be overpowered by someone several orders of magnitude more powerful than he is rather than a scientific "rubber doesn't conduct" sort of thing.
3) Cole hurting the beast, even assuming heat was involved in the whole "dealing damage" part, was (at least given what I was shown) after a MASSIVE and telegraphed attack, clearly way stronger than Cole's regular lightining... and that is never hitting Luffy in a million years, regardeless if what I said in point 2 is true or not.
4) All I know about the scaling for the Akainu part is that the vaporizing is just the ambient heat, not him actually hitting you.

I can tell you that nothing in One Piece even compares to Cole's lightning heat scaling. I know this because I'm friends with the main One Piece scalers on this site, and I have read through the entire series. I know them and I know the feats. I can confidently say we don't currently scale anything close to Cole's lightning in One Piece.

Why exactly wouldn't it conduct through his entire body?

That's because Rubber isn't a good insulator against other forms of heat. The reason why rubber works so well with electricity is because of it preventing the free movement of electrons within electricity, limiting the time and actual amount of electricity freely moved through the rubber. Objects which transfer heat through non-electron based sources, such as molten metal. Would burn through rubber easier, at lower temperatures because it's not naturally insulated like how electricity is. With what's currently accepted on both profiles, Cole's lightning produces more than enough heat to damage Luffy, even with his rubber constitution.

I don't see why he wouldn't hit Luffy with it, can you prove that Luffy can travel enough distance away from the lightning bolt before he's affecting by it?

That's an unquantifible increase in temperature that wouldn't account for the massive different between Cole's potency and Luffy's resistance.

That's why I asked for context and...Idk, they are still completely made out of lightning and that makes it...weird since I doubt they can directly affect him. Now, if Cole were to plunge them into...Idk...some metal laying around and throw that at Luffy with his magnetic BS (I have no idea if Cole can actually do that) we could be talking but otherwise I'm not sure.

I would argue that he could still cut him initially with the lightning blades as Luffy's insular body doesn't instantly negate lightning that's used against him. He was still "affected" by Enel's lightning, it just wasn't to a great degree.

Cool, though concussive and electrical damage makes me once again question how useful it'd be beyond a "get off me" option.

It would be useful for that exact reason. It wouldn't provide much use offensively, but defensively it could prove useful.

Meh...Idk if we can say that given the only in-universe showings are apparently that it doesn't work on "punch", a generous interpretation of the WORDING of the ability kind of implies that yes but even in its explanation video it is only ever shown to work against projectiles....I'm not convinced.

I believe we can say that because the actual description of the ability, in both games. Are how it transforms physical objects, like those projectiles, into electrical energy that's absorbed by Cole. Physical strikes, such as punches and kicks, would definitively be considered as "physical", ergo they would be susceptible to the transforming effects of Polarity Wall. Using in-game depictions of this ability over the descriptions provided wouldn't be wise because of the aforementioned "game mechanics artificially limiting an ability because of game balancing". I'm fine with agreeing to disagree if you aren't convinced, I'm still going to argue that it would anyway.

Well assuming polarity wall works like you say, Cole activates it while thinking "nyehehehehe this idiot is about to turn into a battery" so kenbun lets Luffy hear that and go "fk this, I'm not punching", he could do that in marineford where his initial, uncontrolled kenbun made him realize that attacking Mihawk is a VERY stupid idea so there's on reason it wouldn't work here.

I've never said or implied that Cole has to think about the capabilities of his Polarity Wall to create it, or that he would do such a thing in-character. I don't see any reason why he would think about that when fighting against Luffy, he'll probably be thinking about other strategies or specific counters against Luffy's capabilities. Not him acting like a budget cartoon villain internally monologuing about his dastardly plans.

Kenbun can be used to generally range the strength of your opponent, I agree. But I don't see evidence or reason that Kenbun would grant Luffy that level of knowledge in this fight. It would probably give him some knowledge about Cole's electricity being potentially dangerous, but that's about it imo.

I don't know enough about InFamous to properly keep arguing but I will say that Devil Fruits are copied by using the "lineage factor" which is legit just your DNA so....eh...maybe.
Again calling more people from both sides might help.

I know about the "lineage factor" explained in Egghead. Devil Fruits still aren't considered as "natural" like Conduit genes in InFamous are as Conduit genes are naturally created in conjunction with your other genes during birth. While Devil Fruits are not. Devil Fruits only proceed to become a part of your biology after consumption. They aren't considered "natural" because of this distinction, plus probably a couple other distinctions which will most likely be explained in the future chapters.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Why is the heat of Cole’s lightning scaling to the heat of the beast? He never “burns” it, he just hits it with lightning attacks that make parts of its body explode, which is AP. Where is “burning” seen in that Ionic Storm attack? The smoke? The Beast is literally always smoking isn’t he?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Well the profile very much does not say "all previous abilities" in the ice powers section, not to mention that in the comments of the video (the only thing giving me even the slightest bit of context here) they straight up say they are "swapping" powers, and (INCREDIBLY minor thing that could be wrong) the fact that the video is a "part 22" makes me doubt this happens close to the beginning of the game. Couple that with the fact that every single video or comic I saw out there had Cole exclusively use his lightning powers gives me a bad feeling about this. I am open to being wrong obviously but in that case you may need to re-word some stuff while adding some actual proof.

I'm sorry to say that but what the profile does is anything but "making it clear". It merely lists "vampire Cole" with "All Abilities From His InFamous 2 Key Including:", "Ice Cole" with "All the powers of Lucy Kuo" and "RFI Cole" with "All Previous Powers From His InFamous 2 Key Even More Enhanced" as extra keys inside his InFamous 2 key without bothering to add anything about whether they are optional, happen at different parts of the story, are triggered by some special nonsense or....anything else (exept vampire Cole at the end, that was the 1 part I was sure was not included)

Key: InFAMOUS 1 | InFAMOUS 2 (Base or Vampire Cole) | RFI Empowerment

RFI is clearly another completely different key, and Vampire Cole while certainly included in his second key is also made clear to be an option instead of his default state, specially with the note at the end of the profile:

Note:

• The events and abilities that appear within "Festival of Blood" are regarded as non-canon, and mostly serve as a "what if?" side story. As such, they do not affect his canon inFamous 2 statistics, and his vampire abilities are not considered apart of his normal inFamous 2 skill set. If they are to be used, then it should be stated within the OP.

So while yes, it's somwhat confusing initially, after looking more at the profile isn't that hard to suppose that the ice powers are part of his base second key.

What I can say however is that:
1) Paralysis works only IF his electricity gets conducted through the body which is not happening.
2) The fact that Luffy never got hurt by the heat of Enel's strongest lightining attacks but he got hurt (in a key with VASTLY inferior heat resistance AND no haki) by Enel very casually melting gold makes me think that he's not getting burned by Cole's lightning hitting him but may be burned if Cole does some weird BS that makes everything around him super hot. His resistance seems to be more of a supernatural immunity (which, given his fuit, now makes more sense) that can only be overpowered by someone several orders of magnitude more powerful than he is rather than a scientific "rubber doesn't conduct" sort of thing.

1) You clearly didn't understand the reason of why the profile list the Enhanced Paralysis in his second key from the fact that he paralysed a being made of rock with no muscle, something that don't happen with normal lightning at all, so Luffy isn't resisting it even with his rubber body unless he specifically have a resistance to paralysis (of the supernatural type instead of the scientific one from rubber properties).
2) That's just straight up your canon as there is nothing in the source material that says so.

 

[noninho]

I'm refraining from posting here since I get the "hard to say" vibes lmao

Anyway, the 2) is actually true, read the Enel fight! And a picossecond after saying that, I ask: tell me feats for Cole's shock being more impressive than Enel's, please?

Leaning towards Luffy, tho his g4 restriction severely caps him.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

2) That's just straight up your canon as there is nothing in the source material that says so.

Uh, no. That’s exactly what happened in the Enel fight. Luffy felt no heat from being hit with Enel’s lightning, but then got burned from something warmed up by Enel. He flat out negates the heat property of lightning quite explicitly, such that it had to be circumvented by using a separate object/method.

 

[Carfusso]

I had to clear some things up...I hope this is my last big message and someone else can take over

Deceived3596​

It doesn't say that because it's not a separate key, it's a part of the same exact key, but it's separated into a different tabber for easier readability. Cole doesn't "swap" powers in the sense that Lucy gained his Electricity Manipulation and he gained her Ice Manipulation. It's probably talking about Cole switching between his Ice abilities and Electricity abilities, which you do when you're playing the game. Dude, we visually see and use those powers while playing the game, you can even check his profile as I've linked multiple videos of him using his Ice abilities. Cole also doesn't have access to his Ice abilities in the comics because all of them happen before InFamous 2 even occurs chronologically. All of those comics happen during the InFamous 1 era, when he was still in Empire City.

We can just agree to disagree on this point since it doesn't actually pertain to this debate.

I re-read the profile, dug a bit deeper than what should be necessary I did before and yes, I did miss the fact that he has access to both electricity and ice, I don't know how this affects the fight too well but I have to say that we may need G4 in here to make it fair if the AP boost isn't too large. (and that's assuming you're not correct in your later arguments because I hope you realize that any one of your statements about heat or the Polarity Wall being true make this fight a stomp even without the ice powers)


I can tell you that nothing in One Piece even compares to Cole's lightning heat scaling. I know this because I'm friends with the main One Piece scalers on this site, and I have read through the entire series. I know them and I know the feats. I can confidently say we don't currently scale anything close to Cole's lightning in One Piece.


Why exactly wouldn't it conduct through his entire body?

Because that's legit what happens when you try to attack Luffy with an electric attack that's not unreasonably more powerful than he is, you can argue the heat part (which is starting to sound more and more questionable since I see less and less proof that Cole actually burned the Beast instead of just...you know...hurting it with the AP of what I think is his strongest attack in this key) but even that only applies if the electricty actually gets to interact with Luffy's body which is debatable.

That's because Rubber isn't a good insulator against other forms of heat. The reason why rubber works so well with electricity is because of it preventing the free movement of electrons within electricity, limiting the time and actual amount of electricity freely moved through the rubber. Objects which transfer heat through non-electron based sources, such as molten metal. Would burn through rubber easier, at lower temperatures because it's not naturally insulated like how electricity is. With what's currently accepted on both profiles, Cole's lightning produces more than enough heat to damage Luffy, even with his rubber constitution.

Again...the heat is carried by the lightning part of the attack...which would need SIGNIFICANTLY more AP to interact with Luffy.

I don't see why he wouldn't hit Luffy with it, can you prove that Luffy can travel enough distance away from the lightning bolt before he's affecting by it?

Do I REALLY need to prove that a guy with precog (I mean, it's not FS yet but it still helps) and a "burst" movement option (Soru) can dodge a slow-startup, relatively small-AoE attack that is only shown hitting a HUGE and nearly static enemy?

That's an unquantifible increase in temperature that wouldn't account for the massive different between Cole's potency and Luffy's resistance.

Fair, but I'm starting to have trouble with the validity of Cole's heat (and if you argue that it's THAT much better than Luffy's heat resistance than this is a massive stomp as Luffy just gets atomized without being able to do shit as soon as he gets remotely close to ANY of Cole's attacks or even Cole himself...)


I would argue that he could still cut him initially with the lightning blades as Luffy's insular body doesn't instantly negate lightning that's used against him. He was still "affected" by Enel's lightning, it just wasn't to a great degree.

In 3 Piece maybe, he absolutely didn't even register it as an attack in the actual story. If Enel attacked a sleeping Luffy I guarantee you he's not even waking up. As for the lightning blades Idk...I'm still more on the side that they're not strong enough to interact with Luffy but I'd say this needs to be determined AFTER the heat point is resolved.


It would be useful for that exact reason. It wouldn't provide much use offensively, but defensively it could prove useful.

Fair, never said, it wouldn't be useful, I just needed to hear how it worked


I believe we can say that because the actual description of the ability, in both games. Are how it transforms physical objects, like those projectiles, into electrical energy that's absorbed by Cole. Physical strikes, such as punches and kicks, would definitively be considered as "physical", ergo they would be susceptible to the transforming effects of Polarity Wall. Using in-game depictions of this ability over the descriptions provided wouldn't be wise because of the aforementioned "game mechanics artificially limiting an ability because of game balancing". I'm fine with agreeing to disagree if you aren't convinced, I'm still going to argue that it would anyway.

Now this is quite funny but....where exactly is it stated (outside of the profile just saying that it does) that it outright transforms phisical objects into energy? I went through the video multiple times and it sure as hell isn't there, I went to the wiki and they say it only blocks the smaller projectiles and some specific attacks from other enemies (this is likely game mechanics) and that it can be overpowered by a strong enough attack (THIS however...I don't think you can say that it is) while the upgraded version converts the damage into energy...not the actual object...I tried going on google and found a large quantity of jack-shit...I am starting to have A LOT more doubts about this one.


I've never said or implied that Cole has to think about the capabilities of his Polarity Wall to create it, or that he would do such a thing in-character. I don't see any reason why he would think about that when fighting against Luffy, he'll probably be thinking about other strategies or specific counters against Luffy's capabilities. Not him acting like a budget cartoon villain internally monologuing about his dastardly plans.

I...thought the "budget cartoon villain monologue" on the guy I specifically called smart in my earlier post would have made it obvious that it was an overly exagerated scenario
ANYWAY
The point was that (in the now to me ludicrous assumption that it's some sort of instant win button) if Cole is activating the ability he's 100% thinking about what would happen if Luffy were to hit it (you know...he needs to think about that if he wants to plan his next move) and his intentions would 100% be to transmute Luffy while blocking the hit...both things fully covered by Kenbun.


Kenbun can be used to generally range the strength of your opponent, I agree. But I don't see evidence or reason that Kenbun would grant Luffy that level of knowledge in this fight. It would probably give him some knowledge about Cole's electricity being potentially dangerous, but that's about it imo.

I may have expressed it poorly but in the situation I was referring Luffy did not see how strong Mihawk was...he just saw his arms getting chopped off and so stopped the attack b4 it happened.


I know about the "lineage factor" explained in Egghead. Devil Fruits still aren't considered as "natural" like Conduit genes in InFamous are as Conduit genes are naturally created in conjunction with your other genes during birth. While Devil Fruits are not. Devil Fruits only proceed to become a part of your biology after consumption. They aren't considered "natural" because of this distinction, plus probably a couple other distinctions which will most likely be explained in the future chapters

As I said, I don't know enough to argue that but assuming it's not negated...what about the "running out of juice" part I mentioned earlier?

​

Expectro2000xxx​

1) You clearly didn't understand the reason of why the profile list the Enhanced Paralysis in his second key from the fact that he paralysed a being made of rock with no muscle, something that don't happen with normal lightning at all, so Luffy isn't resisting it even with his rubber body unless he specifically have a resistance to paralysis (of the supernatural type instead of the scientific one from rubber properties).

Here's the thing..the rock thing did not have muscle/organs sure...but it COULD be electrocuted as it could still condut and it wasn't fully immune to lightining attacks...and well...guess who IS immune and doesn't conduct?
To clarify...getting affected by lightning is a necessary prerequisite to being paralyzed, the "enhanced" part of the "Enhanced Paralysis" means that having organs/tissue isn't, which is why it affected a rock thing but it wouldn't affect Luffy

2) That's just straight up your canon as there is nothing in the source material that says so.

If you are referring to the fact that Enel couldn't burn him with his lightning and had to resort to melting gold you're reading π Piece, if you mean the other part...it's possible but again...considering his rubber had NO reaction to Enel's strongest lightning attacks but was burned by him very casually melting gold (using that very same lightning in FAR lower quantity)...logic would dictate that the lightning attack would need to overpower his resistance first in order to affect his body with the heat.

 

[Ryuga21]

Keyboard Warriors

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[FireSwordHero]

Ok, so im going to be frank, I have no idea who can win. Originally I was going to play devil's advocate and say Cole would win, then I though Luffy would win, but now im not sure. That being said, im including my analysis so I can let other people come to their own choices.

Lets just go over some big details first

Can Cole's electricity hurt Luffy?​

At a first glance, the answer seems like an obvious no, since Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Mi makes him resistant to most electrical attacks, right? Well, you would be half right, since while I do think Luffy can resist the lightning attack itself, the same likely can't be applied to the heat generated by Cole's lightning.

For the record, Cole's lightning can harm the Beast, who stood point blank in a nuclear explosion without taking damage, which can reach temperatures over 100,000,000° Celsius, which is way above the temeperatures Luffy could possible withstand and something Cole's lightning should scale to since it could harm the Beast.

(For the record, Luffy best heat resistance comes to about 1300 Degree's Celsius courtesy of being able to stand be near Akainu, and this is highballing it btw)

Now, this is a debatable topic since the heat is a by product of lightning and Luffy has tanked direct lightning blasts before with no damage (despite them being very hot), but since the temperature is way above what Luffy can withstand, as well as the fact that Cole's lightning attacks are much superior to Enel's (barring his most powerful attacks such as his Raigou), it would be safe to say that Cole should be able to hurt Luffy with his attacks, since aside from what I mentioned above, it would be very NLF to suggest that Luffy elec resistance makes him outright immune.

Now with that out of the way, lets get into Cole's advantages.​

I've already mentioned the Electricity stuff, but even assuming Luffy can resist his direct lightning, Cole still has a lot of things going for him

• Cole's Bio-Leech ability can suck the bio-electricity in Luffy's body, giving him a possible wincon.
  • That being said, this ability is generally seen as the "Evil Option" in inFAMOUS and results in Bad Karma, so its debatable whether or not it would be in character for Cole to use this ability since he's the "Good" version.
• Cole's Cryokinesis is an option since its comparable to his lightning in terms of power and its capable of harming Luffy.
  • Luffy's temperature resistances wouldn't help since Luffy at his best can resist temperatures under 50 degrees Farenheit, while Cole's Ice can reach subzero temperatures (Less than 0 degree's Farenheit)
• Polarity Shield can convert matter into electricity, so if Luffy tries to punch him his arms would basically get disintegrated
• Kinetic Pulse and Shockwaves gives Cole a means of both keeping Luffy at a distance as well as allowing him to attack with ranged projectiles that aren't electric ones.
• Minor detail since I don't think Luffy will use it, but it should be noted that Cole's Radar pulse makes Luffy's stealth skills useless. Not really important since Luffy isnt the stealth type, but It is worth mentioning.

There's probably more that I missed here, but the overall explanation is that Cole can hurt Luffy, and that he has several means of doing so.

Also cole is faster than Luffy, being able to react at 50% the speed of light while Luffy can only react at 36% the speed of light

So yeah, Cole has a lot of advantages.

So why do I also think Luffy can win as well?​

• Luffy has the superior AP. Cole at his best scales to 1.5-1.7 Gigatons via Scaling to both Delsin and Fetch, and while Base Luffy's AP is unknown, Gear 2 luffy is put at 1.8 Gigatons, while his Gear 3 puts at him at 7.5 gigatons. If gear 4 is included, then the gap only gets bigger
  • On that note, Luffy's reactive Evolution means he would be able to get stronger during the course of the fight.
  • This doesn't apply to Durability since Gear 3 only amps his AP
• Haki gives Luffy a lot of advantages.
  • Observation Haki gives Luffy instinctive reactions and precognition, closing the speed gap between him and Cole.
  • Armament Haki gives Luffy Additional durability, putting him above Cole's AP.
  • Conquerer's Haki can affect Cole, either knocking him out or disorienting him. It can also induce fear which Cole can't resist.
• Superior Acrobatics
• Overall better in melee and CQC
• Analytical Prediction and Information Analysis means that Luffy can learn to predict and counter Cole's attacks faster than Cole can learn to counter Luffy's
• Gomu Gomu Red Hawk can ignore a targets durability by burning them from the inside. Granted, this is mainly due to Fire Manip and Cole's heat resistance far outscales this, but I am unsure about how it works in relation to internal damage.
• Luffy's innate electrical resistance means that even if Cole can hurt him with electricity, it will likely not be as effective.
  • Especially when factoring in Armament Haki
  • On that note, Luffy has adapted to attacks which have hurt him before, like Crocodile's poison, so Luffy can likely do the same here.

Honestly I'll need to sleep on this one before I can give a verdict, but this matchup is actually really close, and I feel that either character could win this.

 

[Carfusso]

A few observations/additions to

Ok, so im going to be frank, I have no idea who can win. Originally I was going to play devil's advocate and say Cole would win, then I though Luffy would win, but now im not sure. That being said, im including my analysis so I can let other people come to their own choices.

Lets just go over some big details first

Can Cole's electricity hurt Luffy?​

At a first glance, the answer seems like an obvious no, since Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Mi makes him resistant to most electrical attacks, right? Well, you would be half right, since while I do think Luffy can resist the lightning attack itself, the same likely can't be applied to the heat generated by Cole's lightning.

For the record, Cole's lightning can harm the Beast, who stood point blank in a nuclear explosion without taking damage, which can reach temperatures over 100,000,000° Celsius, which is way above the temeperatures Luffy could possible withstand and something Cole's lightning should scale to since it could harm the Beast.

(For the record, Luffy best heat resistance comes to about 1300 Degree's Celsius courtesy of being able to stand be near Akainu, and this is highballing it btw)

I'm pretty sure Luffy's heat resistance here is vastly upscaled from a higher value but that's not the point...the point is that there is NO burning (caused by Cole at least) showed at ANY point when it comes to what is shown on Cole's profile about "burning" The Beast, the smoke is ALWAYS there, even b4 Cole attacks, and the only thing his lightning does (his strongest lightining attack btw...if I got that right) is blow off a chunk of the Beast's face....which can only be assumed to be AP, not heat, I could go on about the proof of the other values also being...fragile...but the only realistic argument you can make about Cole's lightning hurting Luffy in any way is if it BURNED the beast...which is sounding more and more questionable by the second.

Now, this is a debatable topic since the heat is a by product of lightning and Luffy has tanked direct lightning blasts before with no damage (despite them being very hot), but since the temperature is way above what Luffy can withstand, as well as the fact that Cole's lightning attacks are much superior to Enel's (barring his most powerful attacks such as his Raigou), it would be safe to say that Cole should be able to hurt Luffy with his attacks, since aside from what I mentioned above, it would be very NLF to suggest that Luffy elec resistance makes him outright immune.

First of all, heat is the literal only way Cole's lightning attacks have any way to harm Luffy, Cole's actual power compared to Enel means nothing, only the heat.
If Cole's lightning was actually THAT hot you could argue (and depending on the mechanics I might agree) that it would hurt Luffy via heat...exept the heat would be way too much and turn this into a stomp as Luffy can't do anything without vaporizing immediatly before even making contact as Cole also has a lightning aura around him.

Now with that out of the way, lets get into Cole's advantages.​

I've already mentioned the Electricity stuff, but even assuming Luffy can resist his direct lightning, Cole still has a lot of things going for him

• Cole's Bio-Leech ability can suck the bio-electricity in Luffy's body, giving him a possible wincon.
  • That being said, this ability is generally seen as the "Evil Option" in inFAMOUS and results in Bad Karma, so its debatable whether or not it would be in character for Cole to use this ability since he's the "Good" version.

I've been told this is OoC for good Cole, but it still would be VERY unlikely to work given the MASSIVE difference in LS

• Cole's Cryokinesis is an option since its comparable to his lightning in terms of power and its capable of harming Luffy.
  • Luffy's temperature resistances wouldn't help since Luffy at his best can resist temperatures under 50 degrees Farenheit, while Cole's Ice can reach subzero temperatures (Less than 0 degree's Farenheit)

Ice powers are the only thing I haven't properly looked into yet but I'm pretty sure they're way more on the side of "I hit you with this icicle" than they are "The cold is what hurts you" so Luffy's cold resistance should still be enough (also I'm quite sure him running around in Punk Hazard means he's confortable staying at sub-0 tempreatures as well)

• Polarity Shield can convert matter into electricity, so if Luffy tries to punch him his arms would basically get disintegrated

No proof whatsoever of it being transmutation is shown on the profile, if there IS proof, this is a good time to get it out. For now the linked video treats it like a normal shield and every source I've seen (including the InFamous wiki) says it blocks damage from small projectiles and it can be overpowered, the only time any form of "transmutation" is ever menitoned is that the upgrade transforms the DAMAGE into energy. Even assuming it is transmuting matter into energy I strongly doubt it can do so to an actual person when it is only ever shown blocking bullets.

• Kinetic Pulse and Shockwaves gives Cole a means of both keeping Luffy at a distance as well as allowing him to attack with ranged projectiles that aren't electric ones.
• Minor detail since I don't think Luffy will use it, but it should be noted that Cole's Radar pulse makes Luffy's stealth skills useless. Not really important since Luffy isnt the stealth type, but It is worth mentioning.

There's probably more that I missed here, but the overall explanation is that Cole can hurt Luffy, and that he has several means of doing so.

Cole also has regeneration and immortality through both this regen AND resurrection but I have yet to figure out any form of limitaitons...are you familiar enough with Cole to specify if his regeneration can "run out of juice" and how good his resurrection is?

Also cole is faster than Luffy, being able to react at 50% the speed of light while Luffy can only react at 36% the speed of light

So yeah, Cole has a lot of advantages.

I'm pretty sure that speed value is for base Luffy (I could be wrong), if so G2 is more than enough to close the gap

So why do I also think Luffy can win as well?​

• Luffy has the superior AP. Cole at his best scales to 1.5-1.7 Gigatons via Scaling to both Delsin and Fetch, and while Base Luffy's AP is unknown, Gear 2 luffy is put at 1.8 Gigatons, while his Gear 3 puts at him at 7.5 gigatons. If gear 4 is included, then the gap only gets bigger
  • On that note, Luffy's reactive Evolution means he would be able to get stronger during the course of the fight.
  • This doesn't apply to Durability since Gear 3 only amps his AP

But I'm pretty sure his durability scales around there anyway given he fights people comparable to his G3 (e.g. Doffy)

• Haki gives Luffy a lot of advantages.
  • Observation Haki gives Luffy instinctive reactions and precognition, closing the speed gap between him and Cole.

And the ability to know what Cole is planning in advance through telepathy

• • Armament Haki gives Luffy Additional durability, putting him above Cole's AP.

And some more resistances and possibly a way to negate Cole's regeneration

• • Conquerer's Haki can affect Cole, either knocking him out or disorienting him. It can also induce fear which Cole can't resist.

I thought Cole had strong willpower...are you sure about that? If so that's a big factor

• Superior Acrobatics

Cole's one mobile ****** as well though

• Overall better in melee and CQC

100%

• Analytical Prediction and Information Analysis means that Luffy can learn to predict and counter Cole's attacks faster than Cole can learn to counter Luffy's

I'd say Haki is more of a factor in this but the result is the same

• Gomu Gomu Red Hawk can ignore a targets durability by burning them from the inside. Granted, this is mainly due to Fire Manip and Cole's heat resistance far outscales this, but I am unsure about how it works in relation to internal damage.

No idea, I'd assume Cole is fine and sees this as just a punch

• Luffy's innate electrical resistance means that even if Cole can hurt him with electricity, it will likely not be as effective.
  • Especially when factoring in Armament Haki
  • On that note, Luffy has adapted to attacks which have hurt him before, like Crocodile's poison, so Luffy can likely do the same here.

I doubt you can make that case...either Luffy gets instantly vaporized by temperatures several orders of magnitude higher than what burned him in the past or he doesn't give a shit about Cole's lightning.

Honestly I'll need to sleep on this one before I can give a verdict, but this matchup is actually really close, and I feel that either character could win this.

Meh...the "quote in spoilers" way to respond looks a lot better and more practical to me (this is abviously not me responding to this last bit, I'm just thinking to myself on how to format my posts, I agree that it IS close unless there's some real proof about either the heat or the polarity wall)

 

[FireSwordHero]

I'm pretty sure Luffy's heat resistance here is vastly upscaled from a higher value

You mean higher than 100 Million degrees? I doubt it. The best feat he scales to is less than a 1/100th of that.

but that's not the point...the point is that there is NO burning (caused by Cole at least) showed at ANY point when it comes to what is shown on Cole's profile about "burning" The Beast, the smoke is ALWAYS there, even b4 Cole attacks, and the only thing his lightning does (his strongest lightining attack btw...if I got that right) is blow off a chunk of the Beast's face....which can only be assumed to be AP, not heat, I could go on about the proof of the other values also being...fragile...but the only realistic argument you can make about Cole's lightning hurting Luffy in any way is if it BURNED the beast...which is sounding more and more questionable by the second.

Cole being able to burn the Beast is due to the fact that the Beast no sold a nuclear explosion, which at point blank can reach temeperatures of over 100 million degrees. Lighting is not just simply an electrical charge, it is also heat as well, so if Cole's lighting couldn't reach that temperature, then at most all he could do is push the beast around with the lightnings kinetic energy. Cole's lightning has also been shown to leave burn marks on the ground multiple times during the inFAMOUS games (barring the cutscene, which is completely fair) so the same should apply here.

First of all, heat is the literal only way Cole's lightning attacks have any way to harm Luffy, Cole's actual power compared to Enel means nothing, only the heat.

It does matter in terms of the VS debates because Cole's power is vastly superior to Enels, and even if Luffy does have resistance to Electric attacks, it doesn't we go NFL and state that it makes him invulnerable.

If Cole's lightning was actually THAT hot you could argue (and depending on the mechanics I might agree) that it would hurt Luffy via heat...exept the heat would be way too much and turn this into a stomp as Luffy can't do anything without vaporizing immediatly before even making contact as Cole also has a lightning aura around him.

Well if it does turn into a stomp than let it be so, but since its considered part of Cole's profile, it is a factor in this fight until CRT'd or otherwise.

I've been told this is OoC for good Cole, but it still would be VERY unlikely to work given the MASSIVE difference in LS

It wouldn't really require LS since Cole could likely do so with a touch. The infamous games make it appear that Cole has to overpower his opponents, but thats mainly for gameplay reasons.

Ice powers are the only thing I haven't properly looked into yet but I'm pretty sure they're way more on the side of "I hit you with this icicle" than they are "The cold is what hurts you" so Luffy's cold resistance should still be enough (also I'm quite sure him running around in Punk Hazard means he's confortable staying at sub-0 tempreatures as well)

Luffy's best resist feat is being able to handle below 50, but nothing in the profile or any other source states that he can handle sub-zero temperatures. To say otherwise is to start assuming things, which can easily lead into NLF.

No proof whatsoever of it being transmutation is shown on the profile, if there IS proof, this is a good time to get it out. For now the linked video treats it like a normal shield and every source I've seen (including the InFamous wiki) says it blocks damage from small projectiles and it can be overpowered, the only time any form of "transmutation" is ever menitoned is that the upgrade transforms the DAMAGE into energy. Even assuming it is transmuting matter into energy I strongly doubt it can do so to an actual person when it is only ever shown blocking bullets.

Aside from the fact that an upgraded polarity wall LITERALLY restored Coles energy when bullets strike it and that the bullets disappear against the barrier, conduits are stated to be able to control matter (albiet only of a limited type), and Coles ability to control lighting means that he literally creates and manipulates the ions and electrons he uses for his attacks. Therefore there's nothing to state that Cole can't convert matter to energy, even that of an actual person.
On that not, to assume that Cole can't convert people into matter because a game won't explicitly allow it is simply a result of Game Mechanics, since nothing outright implies that Cole is unable to do so to living targets since being able to do so in a videogame would be unbalanced.
Also another conduit did the exact same thing to the point where we consider it a feat Cole scales to.

And again, its part of Cole's profile, so deal with it.

Cole also has regeneration and immortality through both this regen AND resurrection but I have yet to figure out any form of limitaitons...are you familiar enough with Cole to specify if his regeneration can "run out of juice" and how good his resurrection is?

Well, Cole should scale from forced Conduits being able to regenerate their limbs (Low-Mid) and Cole himself can do this without electricity, but it should be noted that Cole's regeneration is both much faster and amplified by electricity sources. Provided Cole has access to one, his regeneration is practically limitless.

That being said, its not without limits - Cole is likely vulnerable to any source of damage to the head (assuming it can pierce his head) and while he can regenerate internal organ damage, he can't pull himself back together is his body was somehow blown up (maybe, im not sure). So its likely that any shot to the head or blowing up would kill him, and when isolated from electric sources his regen is much slower.

I'm pretty sure that speed value is for base Luffy (I could be wrong), if so G2 is more than enough to close the gap

Fair enough.

But I'm pretty sure his durability scales around there anyway given he fights people comparable to his G3 (e.g. Doffy)

Its not considered that way on his profile, but even if it was I would consider that dubious, since if Luffy can take hits in his base from people comparable to his G3, he would not need G4 to defeat Doffy. Not to mention that G3 is specifically a AP amp and not a durability amp.

And the ability to know what Cole is planning in advance through telepathy

Its not in character for Luffy to use it that way and even if he could, it doesn't work that way. It simply allows him to to perceive and understand animals like the Sea Kings and Zunesha as well potentially inanimate objects. There's nothing to suggest he can use it to read minds.

And some more resistances and possibly a way to negate Cole's regeneration

He has indermediate Armament Haki at this key, not Beyond Advanced, so he can't do that. Read the profiles for the love of god.
Not to mention that the Regen-negation only works on non natural regen like the one offered by Logia's or the healing flames offered by the Phoenix Fruit. Cole's regen is for the most part, natural and biological, so it cannot work on him.

I thought Cole had strong willpower...are you sure about that? If so that's a big factor

True he does have a strong willpower, but not a supernatural kind, which One piece characters are noted to have since its how the Haki powers work.
That being said, assuming that willpower doesn't have to be supernatural, Cole's strong will might mean that he can resist the effects, buts its a coin flip on how well Cole resists it or if he can resist it at all.

Cole's one mobile ***** as well though

Fair, but Luffy's naturally acrobatics plus his Gomu Gomu powers means he's just on a higher level.

I'd say Haki is more of a factor in this but the result is the same

Fair

No idea, I'd assume Cole is fine and sees this as just a punch

Cool

I doubt you can make that case...either Luffy gets instantly vaporized by temperatures several orders of magnitude higher than what burned him in the past or he doesn't give a shit about Cole's lightning.

Welp, I made my reasoning for why Cole's lightning can hurt Luffy, so if my reasoning makes it a stomp, im sorry, but it is what it is.

 

[Carfusso]

You mean higher than 100 Million degrees? I doubt it. The best feat he scales to is less than a 1/100th of that.

I meant higher than the value you gave for Luffy's heat resistance, not Cole's heat.

Cole being able to burn the Beast is due to the fact that the Beast no sold a nuclear explosion, which at point blank can reach temeperatures of over 100 million degrees. Lighting is not just simply an electrical charge, it is also heat as well, so if Cole's lighting couldn't reach that temperature, then at most all he could do is push the beast around with the lightnings kinetic energy. Cole's lightning has also been shown to leave burn marks on the ground multiple times during the inFAMOUS games (barring the cutscene, which is completely fair) so the same should apply here.

Well....hurting someone with lightning is NOT equal to burning them with said lightning unless shown otherwise (in fiction anyway), and "push the beast around" is literally all that happened...there was NO burning involved in the pieces flying off (exept the lava/magma that was always there) so it stands to reason that Cole's lightning is strong enough to hurt the beast but not to burn it unless proven otherwise

It does matter in terms of the VS debates because Cole's power is vastly superior to Enels, and even if Luffy does have resistance to Electric attacks, it doesn't we go NFL and state that it makes him invulnerable.

Luffy's resistance to electricity borders on immmunity....it actually IS immunity within the context of the series, meaning it would require someone way stronger than the peak of One Piece (which Cole isn't) to actually hurt him with the AP of their lightning (you can, however, burn him if the ambient heat of your lightning is high enough)....also I just remembered Luffy ignoring Big Mom's lightning so even IF I were to agree with your (1000% unreasonable) statement that anyone stronger than the strongest lightning Luffy facetanked can hurt Luffy with lightning....Cole's not as strong as Big mom, heat is STILL the only way Luffy even notices Cole's lightining if that heat value is fair.

Well if it does turn into a stomp than let it be so, but since its considered part of Cole's profile, it is a factor in this fight until CRT'd or otherwise.

I mean...it being on the profile doesn't mean it's correct if the evidence is THIS blatant against it....show even the slightest hint of any level of burn mark on the beast and you'd be right....I'd need a CRT if I wanted to argue against it in that case

It wouldn't really require LS since Cole could likely do so with a touch. The infamous games make it appear that Cole has to overpower his opponents, but thats mainly for gameplay reasons.

Well I don't like the "likely" there when we are shown otherwise but still...OoC, let's not waste more time on this unless you think it's a realistic option.

Luffy's best resist feat is being able to handle below 50, but nothing in the profile or any other source states that he can handle sub-zero temperatures. To say otherwise is to start assuming things, which can easily lead into NLF.

Hold on...I just used a converter since I use celsius and "handling below 50" (I'm assuming fahrenheit) is literally "staying alive during winter"....I think you must have missed some numbers since snow melts at that temperature, still...are Cole's ice powers not just "I hit you with this icicle"? Why is the cold a relevant factor? Unless it's FAR below what Luffy survived it's not going to make a big difference, even encasing him in ice would take time to actually start having harmful effects due to temperature...time that Luffy would use to simply...free himself with his superior LS (now...if Cole's ice powers actually were more focused on temperature manipulation/flash-freezing people you'd have a point but I have not seen an answer to that yet, all I'm going to say is that in that case G4 might be necessary)

Aside from the fact that an upgraded polarity wall LITERALLY restored Coles energy when bullets strike it and that the bullets disappear against the barrier, conduits are stated to be able to control matter (albiet only of a limited type), and Coles ability to control lighting means that he literally creates and manipulates the ions and electrons he uses for his attacks. Therefore there's nothing to state that Cole can't convert matter to energy, even that of an actual person.
On that not, to assume that Cole can't convert people into matter because a game won't explicitly allow it is simply a result of Game Mechanics, since nothing outright implies that Cole is unable to do so to living targets since being able to do so in a videogame would be unbalanced.
Also another conduit did the exact same thing to the point where we consider it a feat Cole scales to.

And again, its part of Cole's profile, so deal with it.

It restoring energy doesn't mean it's turning the MATTER into energy, it could just be the damage, expecially when the literal description on the wiki says it only converts the damage...also something I find interesting is that the "turning a person into energy" thing you linked was calced as higher than what Cole is able to output...I just find this interesting...MAYBE there are limits to the polarity wall as well...you know...the same limits that make it break under strong enough attacks...MAYBE it's not strong enough to turn people into energy given that feat scales higher than Cole's paygrade.

Funny thing is...the profile only says transmutation without elaborating on the limits, meaning that him turning people into energy is tecnically not explicitly on the profile.

Well, Cole should scale from forced Conduits being able to regenerate their limbs (Low-Mid) and Cole himself can do this without electricity, but it should be noted that Cole's regeneration is both much faster and amplified by electricity sources. Provided Cole has access to one, his regeneration is practically limitless.

That being said, its not without limits - Cole is likely vulnerable to any source of damage to the head (assuming it can pierce his head) and while he can regenerate internal organ damage, he can't pull himself back together is his body was somehow blown up (maybe, im not sure). So its likely that any shot to the head or blowing up would kill him, and when isolated from electric sources his regen is much slower.

I see...how does he absorb energy? Contact/standing near/passive/slow/fast...?

Its not considered that way on his profile, but even if it was I would consider that dubious, since if Luffy can take hits in his base from people comparable to his G3, he would not need G4 to defeat Doffy. Not to mention that G3 is specifically a AP amp and not a durability amp.

Aside from whatever the value is on the profile (not going to argue that) the logic in your argument just...isn't there...he can take hits from Doffy who boxes with (buso-covered)G3...shouldn't be that hard. He needed G4 because Doffy was still tougher and stronger than him, even if Luffy can take his attacks, what are you on about?

Its not in character for Luffy to use it that way and even if he could, it doesn't work that way. It simply allows him to to perceive and understand animals like the Sea Kings and Zunesha as well potentially inanimate objects. There's nothing to suggest he can use it to read minds.

Telepathy (as in...hear someone else's thoughts) is legit part of the powers you automatically get when activating Kenbun as shown in the Haki page, there's no "in character" there unless you want to argue that Luffy doesn't use observation Haki at all times while fighting. The voice of all things is something else.

He has indermediate Armament Haki at this key, not Beyond Advanced, so he can't do that. Read the profiles for the love of god.
Not to mention that the Regen-negation only works on non natural regen like the one offered by Logia's or the healing flames offered by the Phoenix Fruit. Cole's regen is for the most part, natural and biological, so it cannot work on him.

Regen negation is (again) legit just part of the powers of INITIAL STAGE buso, check before arguing that I'm the one that doesn't read the profiles......................
The second argument is possible but I don't know enough about the specifics to argue either side and no-one that is knowledgeable seems to acknowledge that this match even exists.

True he does have a strong willpower, but not a supernatural kind, which One piece characters are noted to have since its how the Haki powers work.
That being said, assuming that willpower doesn't have to be supernatural, Cole's strong will might mean that he can resist the effects, buts its a coin flip on how well Cole resists it or if he can resist it at all.

I'm pretty sure that's enough to take Luffy Conqueror's Haki, at least at this point in the story. At most I'd say it would startle him for a moment depending on what his willpower looks like.

Fair, but Luffy's naturally acrobatics plus his Gomu Gomu powers means he's just on a higher level.

Oh yeah I agree, I was just pointing out that Cole's not completely outclassed.