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Future King Faceoff (CONCLUDED; INCON)
- Thread starter ThatDarnFish
- Start date
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You literally asked me where Asta's mind was. It should be obvious that i didnt mean it literal.
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It should also be obvious that it was a joke.
How is this a contradiction? Instinct is a movement or string of movements based on stimuli to produce a result. The whole point of instinct is to carry out an action. Luffy's Kenbun would be able to read the intent of the instinctual movement.
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Intentions come from the mind not the body.
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Intent is simply another way of saying purpose. The point of instinctual movement is to carry out a purpose based on previous experiences.
Epsilon_R
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The distance would be practically null.
Also it takes a series of actions to forsee his attack, thinking and jumping, against Asta's single swing at close.
That's also assuming he's on the ground. He could very well be in the air, and I don't think he can maneuver that well in base.
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I disagree with that. Objects cannot have intent.
Intent is the noun of intend, which means "to have in mind something"
If I throw a ball, my intent is to hit someone, the ball itself cannot intend to do anything, because it literally cannot.
If Luffy was trying to read Asta's mind, and Asta accidentally swung at Luffy, Luffy wouldn't be able to dodge the attack because he wasn't able to read that from Asta's mind.
Luffy has other ways to read Asta IMO anyway. Intent sensing is not one of them.
Intent is the noun of intend, which means "to have in mind something"
If I throw a ball, my intent is to hit someone, the ball itself cannot intend to do anything, because it literally cannot.
If Luffy was trying to read Asta's mind, and Asta accidentally swung at Luffy, Luffy wouldn't be able to dodge the attack because he wasn't able to read that from Asta's mind.
Luffy has other ways to read Asta IMO anyway. Intent sensing is not one of them.
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This is debunked by how Kenbun works. Kenbun is able to sense the intent of objects sent into motion for a purpose without sensing the intent of the person who set said object in motion. For example, Luffy sensing the Axe Vander Decken sent to Shirahoshi without knowing who sent it, where it came from, or why it was there in the first place. The attack itself had an intent, which was to attack Shirahoshi, and Luffy's Kenbun was able to sense it.
In the same way, Asta's mindless attacks still have an intent- a purpose- which is to attack Luffy. Luffy's Kenbun would pick up on that and allow him to avoid them.
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The DF literally makes a target, so that's a bad example.
The DF marks the target, and whatever object he decides to use to hit the target, will travel to the target, no matter what. Vander Decken quite literally forces his intent onto the object, which is not at all the same as my point.
When Asta swings at Luffy, he will have no intent when he swings, but when Vander Decken marks Shirahoshi, the axe intends on harming her. Completely different.
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Lol that attack definitely had intent in it. It’s in no way shape or form close to attacks without intentions.
I think all of Luffy’s wincon has an answer to them now. Luffy’s only way around Zetten is via dodging “narrowly”. Asta’s skills and experience against precog users coupled with a shorter distance between them should be more than enough for Asta to get a solid hit.
I think all of Luffy’s wincon has an answer to them now. Luffy’s only way around Zetten is via dodging “narrowly”. Asta’s skills and experience against precog users coupled with a shorter distance between them should be more than enough for Asta to get a solid hit.
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If Asta lands a Zetten he wins, if Luffy transform into G5 or a G4 variant, he has the advantage overall
But as the fight would start with both closing the range gap to fight on CqC, one zetten and is over, Asta FRA as he should win more times than Luffy win conditions that are in the case of him somehow dodging a 20 speed attack amp via a miracle or something
But as the fight would start with both closing the range gap to fight on CqC, one zetten and is over, Asta FRA as he should win more times than Luffy win conditions that are in the case of him somehow dodging a 20 speed attack amp via a miracle or something
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When was Zetten accepted to be 20x faster?
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Asta FRA
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BLACK CLOVER CRT (GOD TIER REVISION): 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐏𝐎𝐖𝐄𝐑 𝐎𝐅 𝐙𝐄𝐓𝐓𝐄𝐍
Hey guys, I saved this crt for last. Hopefully, this goes well. So sit back relax and have fun. 𝐙𝐄𝐓𝐓𝐄𝐍 is a difficult combat technique developed in the Land of The Rising Sun that takes decades to master. It is a temporary power boost that involves the act of manipulating one's internal...
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I made a thread a while back. Based on the logic of magic both amping speed and power.
It’s not 20x at the moment anymore. Unless I make a thread to reinstate the logic.
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Ok, so yall are arguing based on outdated speed amps
Luffy in G2nd dodges
Luffy in G2nd dodges
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One person = Y’all.
It’s still a speed blitzing amp and I’ve given my reasons why Luffy wouldn’t be able to dodge it if Asta uses the skill he trained to know when to fire it.
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Gear 2nd is a speed blitzing amp. Now mix that with Future Sight. Now mix that with the Boundman speed blitzing amp. Now mix that with the Snakeman blitzing amp.
This what we doing
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What does “mix” even mean?
Gear 2 sure but Gear 3 definitely isn’t a speed amp and there’s no proof that Gear 4 is a bigger amp than Gear 2. Considering Luffy blitzes Doffy with Gear 2 as well.
Kazuma_kuwabara
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Gear 4 is faster than Gear 2, Doflamingo could not react to Gear fourth and Doflamingo could in fact dodge gear 2
Because searching for one piece is a pain, watch episode 721 when he dodges jet gatling
Epsilon_R
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Pretty sure no one is even arguing about luffy dodging in gears, it's about whether or not he can do all of that (Precog into going in gears into dodging) by the time it takes Asta to just hit.
Not to mention some of those gears takes a while to activate, like luffy needing his heart to beat like drums.
Not to mention some of those gears takes a while to activate, like luffy needing his heart to beat like drums.
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He reacts to Gear 4 many times throughout their fight,
but Gear 4 is indeed faster than Gear 2
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When does Doffy dodge gear 2? Can I get a scan? Maybe I’m misremembering cuz I remember Doffy getting blitzed but he stands up and says “it’s fast but no real power behind it”.
Kazuma_kuwabara
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I already told Arnold about the speed of the gears on discord
So end that part of the debate
So end that part of the debate
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Alright since Luffy starts in Base and wouldn’t use gears unless he’s in trouble. He would still have to work his way up to through the gears to be faster than Asta.
Asta, at this point in the series, only uses Zetten when he knows it’s a sure hit . Because most of his training was dedicated to creating that scenario for himself so he can do that to Lucius. Right now, Asta is so good at it that Zetten is virtually his first move.
So what stops Asta from getting in a great position to use Zetten against Base Luffy? Asta could simply wait for base Luffy to initiate an attack and rather than dodging said attack Asta Zetten slashes Luffy during his attack sequence like Asta did for two characters Damnatio and Yrul.
Asta, at this point in the series, only uses Zetten when he knows it’s a sure hit . Because most of his training was dedicated to creating that scenario for himself so he can do that to Lucius. Right now, Asta is so good at it that Zetten is virtually his first move.
So what stops Asta from getting in a great position to use Zetten against Base Luffy? Asta could simply wait for base Luffy to initiate an attack and rather than dodging said attack Asta Zetten slashes Luffy during his attack sequence like Asta did for two characters Damnatio and Yrul.
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He spams Gears in character, not if he's in trouble. Post-Time skip Luffy uses his gears a lot more often than he does in base, and most of the time he just pops into G4 or G5 as of recently. Fought Lucci in base then almost instantly went for G5.
Eh I feel like with his training he wouldn't really use it as a first move just in case his opponents catches onto it. I think Zetten would benefit Asta more by using it mid-way into the fight as something to take the opponent off guard once they've become used to his normal shit.
The fact that Luffy hardly ever uses his base form.
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Also wouldn't Luffy be able to tell that Zetten's dangerous as ****? Kenbunshoku has power reading so right before Asta swings Luffy would feel something strong in the works.
Also tbh Kenbunshoku doesn't any physical attack, it's thought based. Iirc it's the same with Gear 2nd post time skip, doesn't need to do a stance anymore he just increases his blood flow and heart beat normally rather than having to take a stance.
Also tbh Kenbunshoku doesn't any physical attack, it's thought based. Iirc it's the same with Gear 2nd post time skip, doesn't need to do a stance anymore he just increases his blood flow and heart beat normally rather than having to take a stance.
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it’s not really a matter of a character being off guard. It’s a matter of them not being aware of Zetten. Hence why Asta uses Zetten very early to end fights quickly.
Asta has the skill to catch opponents only when they move to attack him. I suppose that moment is what Asta views as the perfect opportunity which makes sense if Asta knows when they’ll attack via Ki and knows the opponent wouldn’t expect a Zetten slash during their attack especially when they’re close to landing the attack on Asta.
G2 and G3 sure since he treats them as basic speed (G2) and power (G3) amps to his base, but he only pops into G4 or G5 most of the time against opponents he knows are powerful.
It’s a perception blitzing amp at the moment.
Also, If they’re both starting in base, Asta should be able to dodge G2 attacks with precog. G4 and G5 attacks by transforming into higher forms + precog. Considering black mode blitzes those comparable to Asta, and ar this point in the series Asta uses so much Anti Magic Power in Black Mode that he’s way faster than previous Black Mode forms. Asta in PDU form has a straight up speed advantage.
So PDU >>> BM >>> Base form speed wise.
But yeah all Asta needs is to attck the second Luffy throws an attack at him to use Zetten.
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That's like the same thing but fair enough. Not being aware of something is the equivalent of being caught off guard, being struck by something you aren't aware of. Only issue is that Luffy would be aware of it.
Luffy's been doing that since East Blue tbh.
The issue with that is much like Asta, Luffy also has tons of experience in fighting against those with precognition like Ki. You can't really say that's an advantage that Asta can only capitalize on whenever Luffy can also counter abilities like Ki.
Matter of fact I'd say that Luffy has more experience in that field, fighting against those with Kenbunshoku even before the time skip where he himself didn't have it.
Luffy can read power levels so him going G4 or G5 early on wouldn't be out of the question. After all that's why he did it against Lucci.
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How will Luffy be aware of an attack he’s never seen?
Kenbu? I’ve never seen him use Kenbu simultaneously while attacking.
Yeah but not for the same reasons Asta is doing it.
If the opponent has enough time to stop and defend himself Asta will know and not do it.
As much as I want to argue about comparing experiences that wasn’t the point of what you’re replying to.
All i said was Ki allows Asta to know when to use Zetten.
I know Luffy can read current power levels so he will transform as soon as Asta goes PDU.
Anyways point of all this is, as long as Luffy’s moves aren’t instantaneous and needs time to either activate or to travel, he will always be at risk of getting Zetten slashed during any move made. Regardless of wether or not Luffy senses it coming while simultaneously making a move, He would have to cancel the move and dodge but Zetten will get him before he can even think of cancelling said move, let alone dodge.
If Luffy somehow knows that Asta won’t use Zetten unless he makes a move then how will Luffy win without making a move? What will happen if Asta forces Luffy to make a move?
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Future sight and Voice of All Things.
He was doing that left and right against Kata.
Luffy baits people like that all the time albeit it's typically to disarm them.
Ah my bad that's fair enough.
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This is every Kenbun user, reading the minds of their enemies and sensing attacks in the near future with a certain power level
Just like how Satori could tell Luffy would throw a stretched punch before Luffy ever attacked him
This is him regularly
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