Lucius VS Gremmy

[Arnoldstone18]

Whoa whoa whoa wtf is going on here

 

[Arcker123]

Also why would Grenny get caught off guard by clones at all?

They’d start in the SBA range which means Gremmy is aware of all of them with his ESP and simply death manip all of them at once since we know his death manip can affect multiple people.

Tbh I'm sure that just like Passives, the character that is originally faster has the priority when both abilities are thought based

This is not true at all what? Where are you getting this?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Let's not forget Gremmy has stealth mastery and Cloning of his own. Lucius don't have feats for perceiving someone like Gremmy if he uses stealth mastery and hides his existence.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Lol spells are also thought based, so one of the clones immediately stops time.

The debators for gremmy never take into account just how over confident he is and just believes he will start with death hax without show boating a bit... Gremmy's over confidence will delay the death hax starting move for a bit. This gives enough time for someone with precognition and a thought based ability to start with his first.

Im voting Lucius for Time Stop EE, BFR, Sealing, Soul Incap, Soul Insta Death, etc...

 

[Arcker123]

The debators for gremmy never take into account just how over confident he is and just believes he will start with death hax without show boating a bit... Gremmy's over confidence will delay the death hax starting move for a bit. This gives enough time for someone with precognition and a thought based ability to start with his first.

This was directly refuted earlier and is just a misinterpretation of Gremmy.

Gremmy explicitly does not showboat, he normally feels no need to prove his power. You aren’t refuting that.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Im just seeing this

This is exactly what i mean by show boating and delaying the use of death hax

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This was directly refuted earlier and is just a misinterpretation of Gremmy.

Gremmy explicitly does not showboat, he normally feels no need to prove his power. You aren’t refuting that.

Then why is that on his weakness section?

Why didn't he start with death the second he saw Kenny??

 

[Quantu]

Before that, this happened. Unless the reading comprehension curse got me, Gremmy did this first no?

 

[Arcker123]

Grammy literally killed the captains as the very first thing he did, and besides, he’s not showboating there at all and started with EE.

What is your response to it being explicitly noted that fighting with bad is explicitly how Gremmy normally fights?

Then why is that on his weakness section?

Because Theoretically if an opponent were to convince him to prove his strength then he probably would not start with hax. It’s irrelevant to pretty much all matches against someone without knowledge and/or social influence.

Why didn't he start with death the second he saw Kenny??

Because Kenpachi convinced him not to use hax. I’ve already proven that in an earlier post. Kenya hi is a plot specific outlier that’s not proof of Grenmy’s normal tactics.

Before that, this happened. Unless the reading comprehension curse got me, Gremmy did this first no?

He death manip’s the captains even before this, and this doesn’t at all disprove Grenmy’s stated character of using hax

 

[Westcoast5005]

Lucius doesn’t bring all of his clones when battling he keeps them at a seperate place incase he dies. So I doubt gremmy would just kill them all

 

[Quantu]

Both have thought based insta wins, but one has several clones, bugdet Almighty from Wish, and more varied ways to end it first, I'm gonna vote for Lucius FRA

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Both have thought based insta wins, but one has several clones, bugdet Almighty from Wish, and more varied ways to end it first, I'm gonna vote for Lucius FRA

I don't remember Lucius abilities working based on thought can I see the scans just for reference?

 

[Arcker123]

The clone argument for Lucius makes no sense at all. They’d just be all in the SBA range to get killed with a thought.

Lucius doesn’t bring all of his clones when battling he keeps them at a seperate place incase he dies. So I doubt gremmy would just kill them all

They can’t start outside the sba range unless they function as a form of type 6 or 8 immortality.

Both have thought based insta wins, but one has several clones, bugdet Almighty from Wish, and more varied ways to end it first, I'm gonna vote for Lucius FRA

That just makes it at best inconclusive if it’s thought based vs thought based. Why would the clones mean anything when it’s been shown Gremmy can kill multiple people with his thought based hax?

 

[Arcker123]

I don't remember Lucius abilities working based on thought can I see the scans just for reference?

Actually yeah this needs to be proven. The Lucius argument presumes that Lucius can pull off all of these strategies in the time it takes Gremmy to think. Even if we granted they were all thought based, the amount of things Lucius is being argued to do would just be slower than a single thought from Gremmy.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I am seeing nothing about Gremmy's enhanced senses nor ESP range on his profile.

How far can he see or sense??

---

Grammy literally killed the captains as the very first thing he did, and besides, he’s not showboating there at all and started with EE.

What is your response to it being explicitly noted that fighting with bad is explicitly how Gremmy normally fights?

Scans?

because ive seen two instances where he doesn't immediately go for death, how much screentime did he have to trump those two instances?

Because Theoretically if an opponent were to convince him to prove his strength then he probably would not start with hax. It’s irrelevant to pretty much all matches against someone without knowledge and/or social influence.

If he starts with death and not letting his opponent make the first move (e.g. social influencing)... there is no-one to convince anything.

Because Kenpachi convinced him not to use had. I’ve already proven that. Kenya hi is a plot specific outlier that’s not proof of Grenmy’s normal tactics.

Not just kenny,

Gremmy was also being Sadistic to a random before eliminating it.

Can i see scans of gremmy killing the captains? and are there any other scans of gremmy starting with death once a fight had begun?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't remember Lucius abilities working based on thought can I see the scans just for reference?

Spells are literally thought-based

unless you believe mages actually scream their spells into existence, and not just for the audience to know what spell they pick

 

[Quantu]

I don't remember Lucius abilities working based on thought can I see the scans just for reference?

His first move against Asta was chrono stasis, which is just a beefed up version of Julius's who was thought-spawning them against Patry for instance

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Actually yeah this needs to be proven. The Lucius argument presumes that Lucius can pull off all of these strategies in the time it takes Gremmy to think. Even if we granted they were all thought based, the amount of things Lucius is being argued to do would just be slower than a single thought from Gremmy.

As far as I remember Lucius time stop works based on Spheres he creates anyone who dodges them can evade the attack. I don't know about other things

Spells are literally thought-based

unless you believe mages actually scream their spells into existence

Everything is thought based let me rephrase my sentence. Can I get the scan where Lucius just thinks "Stop time" and his opponents time gets stopped automatically? You people are arguing Gremmy and Lucius abilities are same. I want to see the proof for that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

His first move against Asta was chrono stasis, which is just a beefed up version of Julius's who was thought-spawning them against Patry for instance

Everything is thought based let me rephrase my sentence. Can I get the scan where Lucius just thinks "Stop time" and his opponents time gets stopped automatically? You people are arguing Gremmy and Lucius abilities are same. I want to see the proof for that.

^

 

[Arcker123]

I am seeing nothing about Gremmy's enhanced senses nor ESP range on his profile.

How far can he see or sense??

It’s in soul physiology. Even fodder shinigami were capable of sensing Yhwach from the I think 500KM canopy.

Scans?

because ive seen two instances where he doesn't immediately go for death, how much screentime did he have to trump those two instances?

I posted the scans earlier. I’m on mobile so I can’t get them right now but they’re in this thread so you should just re read IG.

If he starts with death and not letting his opponent make the first move (e.g. social influencing)... there is no-one to convince anything.

This is baseless and irrelevant given what is stated about Gremmy’s character. It’s just stated that he starts with had so he starts with hax. I don’t need to rationalize everything he does. Gremmy’s stated first moves > baseless assumptions about his conduct in matches.

Gremmy was also being Sadistic to a random before eliminating it.

He EE’d him off rip when he became an actual threat. Don’t forget Guaneal was an ally initially, this is not a defeater for a blatant statement.

Can i see scans of gremmy killing the captains? and are there any other scans of gremmy starting with death once a fight had begun?

It’s on the page on his death manipulation section. I don’t need any more feats when it’s stated that’s how Gremmy acts in character to justify why he’s start with it here.

This whole debate is a waste of time, the fact Grenmy is stated to start with hax alone, which has been shown previously makes this debate irrelevant l.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

As far as I remember Lucius time stop works based on Spheres he creates anyone who dodges them can evade the attack. I don't know about other things

You do realize how massive those spells can get?? Julius' spell covered the entire kingdom, now imagine Lucius with more power than someone who Yami describes as near infinite

This is not some Julius vs Patry fight

Lucius doesn't play with his abilities.

 

[Quantu]

Future sight means he will know Gremmy is going to Death Hax potentially, but I don't know how helpful that could be if we say Gremmy can insta erase every clone from existence immediately. Remember Lucius time magic >> Julius, I'm not sure how combat applicable the timeline viewing is, so this is a baseline

If Gremmy can really just EE every clone from existence no matter where Lucius positions them then it's probably inconclusive tbh since we're back to thought vs thought

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You do realize how massive those spells can get?? Julius' spell covered the entire kingdom, now imagine Lucius with more power than someone who Yami describes as near infinite

This is not some Julius vs Patry fight

Lucius doesn't play with his abilities.

• He can think the magic won't affect him just like how he did with Kenpachi attacks not working on him.
• Or He just dodges them. This size doesn't even seem like big enough. Also I couldn't find a single scan where he spam this without using his hands. One , Two and This is from Latest chapter. He does the things with his hand movements.

Future sight means he will know Gremmy is going to Death Hax potentially, but I don't know how helpful that could be if we say Gremmy can insta erase every clone from existence immediately. Remember Lucius time magic >> Julius, I'm not sure how combat applicable the timeline viewing is, so this is a baseline

You do know it's not prep time match. The match starts and ends with Gremmy death haxing Lucius before he creates the clones and uses Precognition. Even if uses Precognition there is no time for him to escape thought based hax.

If Gremmy can really just EE every clone from existence no matter where Lucius positions them then it's probably inconclusive tbh since we're back to thought vs thought

Still not seeing a single scan for Lucius just thinking about someone else time getting stopped and their time automatically stops.

 

[Arcker123]

Do the clones need to be spawned or would they just start active?

If Gremmy can really just EE every clone from existence no matter where Lucius positions them

The clones just start in SBA range which means Gremmy can just kill them all.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Do the clones need to be spawned or would they just start active?

It was done through prep time if I'm correct so it shouldn't even be considered or just should use as how Gremmy or Naruto spams clones in their matches. Idk why everyone is arguing for clones starting from get to go.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He EE’d him off rip when he became an actual threat. Don’t forget Guaneal was an ally initially, this is not a defeater for a blatant statement.

"when he became a threat" how would he know Lucius is a threat if you claim Lucius doesn't make a move?

edit: read the last paragraph.

It’s in soul physiology. Even fodder shinigami were capable of sensing Yhwach from the I think 500KM canopy.

This is not a feat, Yhwach's aura is obviously so massive and powerful it can be felt from that far out.

You simply picked the highest interpretation of the scene to fit battleboarding needs. Why didn't Gremmy sense Kenny coming until Kenny barged in?

Lucius' flying throne is situated hundreds of kilometers in the sky. SBA can't force him to do something out of character and be 4km in range especially if the first clone is already within range. So unless you prove the simplest interpretation isn't true. Their enhanced senses are not 500KM.

This is baseless and irrelevant given what is stated about Gremmy’s character. It’s just stated that he starts with had so he starts with hax. I don’t need to rationalize everything he does. Gremmy’s stated first moves > baseless assumptions about his conduct in matches.

It is not irrelevant lmao

Gremmy's conduct in fight is needed unless the OP says otherwise, fortunately for Lucius, they're both in character so they will do what they most do in character, which includes conduct in fights.

A Lucius clone sees the future and immediately starts with Time Stop if he figures the opponent is too dangerous.

If the clone dies another comes in from outside the battlefield and stops time immediately

He EE’d him off rip when he became an actual threat. Don’t forget Guaneal was an ally initially, this is not a defeater for a blatant statement.

He was a threat in the very first panel of that scan... why do you think he gouged out the shoulder first? because he's over confident that he would win and simply erased him when he was done messing around

He EE’d him off rip when he became an actual threat.

It’s on the page on his death manipulation section. I don’t need any more feats when it’s stated that’s how Gremmy acts in character to justify why he’s start with it here.

This whole debate is a waste of time, the fact Grenmy is stated to start with hax alone, which has been shown previously makes this debate irrelevant l.

SMFH

What the actual ****? Those captains were not even fighting??? Gremmy just killed them how is that a combat application of gremmy's character here?? Gremmy must've thought that there was no fun in being a ****** to bed ridden captains so he just killed them off immediately. Thats not combat applicable in a vs match.

• He did not kill Yachiru off the rip when he knew she would attack him multiple times
• He did not kill Kenny off the rip even though his sheer presence is a ******* threat.
• The guy Yachiru was fighting wasn't killed off the rip either... he let him speak and dash towards him after he made his entrance known by gouging out his shoulder highlighting his sadistic nature before he kills his opponents.

HIS OVERCONFIDENCE IS MENTIONED IN HIS WEAKNESS SECTION FOR A REASON BECAUSE HE DOES NOT ONE SHOT OFF THE RIP BECAUSE HE BELIEVES HE WILL WIN EVENTUALLY.

---

Lucius sees the future and dispatches Gremmy via Time Stop and all of his kill moves.

The must start in character under SBA therefore Gremmy must be in character as well as Lucius. Gremmy's character puts him at a disadvantage in a one shot vs one shot match up. Hopefully im able to convince you and everyone reading on that front.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It was done through prep time if I'm correct so it shouldn't even be considered or just should use as how Gremmy or Naruto spams clones in their matches. Idk why everyone is arguing for clones starting from get to go.

Lucius did not need prep time lol,

he gave the Clover Kingdom prep time...

As shown with Morris he can simply use his magic to create Clones immediately when outside of battle.

 

[Arcker123]

"when he became a threat" how would he know Lucius is a threat if you claim Lucius doesn't make a move?

There is no way this is a serious argument.

They are in a fight, Gremmy knows inherently Lucius is a threat.

This is not a feat, Yhwach's aura is obviously so massive and powerful it can be felt from that far out.

You simply picked the highest interpretation of the scene to fit battleboarding needs. Why didn't Gremmy sense Kenny coming until Kenny barged in?

This is not true though, Yhwach wasn't even using his aura. They just sensed his location, and you can't prove that interpretation at all.

Kenny could've just hidden his aura, which us something souls can do and after his Unohana training kenny became more knowledgeable in Shinigami arts.

It is not irrelevant lmao

Gremmy's conduct in fight is needed unless the OP says otherwise, fortunately for Lucius, they're both in character so they will do what they most do in character, which includes conduct in fights.

You misunderstand me. It's not relevant to Gremmy's character when we are explicitly told why he didn't do that.

He was a threat in the very first panel of that scan...

No he wasn't. Gremmy just wanted to tell him he was useless and explain why he wanted to kill him, which doesn't apply here.

why do you think he gouged out the shoulder first? because he's over confident that he would win and simply erased him when he was done messing around

Your interpretation is baseless and contradicted by the context and blatant statements you have not responded to.

What the actual ? Those captains were not even fighting??? Gremmy just killed them how is that a combat application of gremmy's character here?? Gremmy must've thought that there was no fun in being a ** to bed ridden captains so he just killed them off immediately. Thats not combat applicable in a vs match.

Your headcanon doesn't make it non applicable. We are given a statement as to why Gremmy does this. He kills opponents with hax off rip because he does not feel a need to prove himself. You have not responded to this at all, even when I told you where I posted the scan.

He did not kill Yachiru off the rip when he knew she would attack him multiple times

He instantly disabled her with relevant hax, which is what I argued his character to be.

• He did not kill Kenny off the rip even though his sheer presence is a ******* threat.

I'm not entertaining this. I've responded to this several times and posted the scans to debunk it.

The guy Yachiru was fighting wasn't killed off the rip either... he let him speak and dash towards him after he made his entrance known by gouging out his shoulder

Because he wanted to explain something to him...

Read the fight dude.

highlighting his sadistic nature before he kills his opponents.

Actual headcanon.

HIS OVERCONFIDENCE IS MENTIONED IN HIS WEAKNESS SECTION FOR A REASON BECAUSE HE DOES NOT ONE SHOT OFF THE RIP BECAUSE HE BELIEVES HE WILL WIN EVENTUALLY.

Headcanon that's contradicted by statements. Gremmy's overconfidence doesn't lead him to be sadistic. It's the opposite, his belief in his power is so assured that he doesn't feel a need to fight to prove himself and instead uses hax. Read the manga and the scans I presented.

Lucius sees the future and dispatches Gremmy via Time Stop and all of his kill moves.

The must start in character under SBA therefore Gremmy must be in character as well as Lucius. Gremmy's character puts him at a disadvantage in a one shot vs one shot match up. Hopefully im able to convince you and everyone reading on that front.

You're not convincing anyone of anything because you're ignoring the actual statements about Gremmy's character that were provided and just spouting headcanon that's contradicted by these statements.

You're just entirely misinterpreting Gremmy using Headcanon instead of statements.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

• He can think the magic won't affect him just like how he did with Kenpachi attacks not working on him.
• Or He just dodges them. This size doesn't even seem like big enough. Also I couldn't find a single scan where he spam this without using his hands. One , Two and This is from Latest chapter. He does the things with his hand movements.

• He has no knowledge on Lucius so this is clearly not a point. He needs to know that its magic otherwise he just gets stopped in time.
• Lucius can't use Time Manipulation in Neverneverland, why are you bringing up the latest chapter? Use the chapter where he stops time around himself or use the chapter where Julius stops time around the damn kingdom. Lucius only uses his hands once against Yuno.

Lucius can cast a spell big enough to engulf the clover kingdom if thats a future required for his victory. You are ignoring the fact that Lucius will simply follow the path that leads to victory so if he sees Gremmy in the near future starting with death manipulation from Kilometers away (Gremmy isn't doing allat in character lmao) Lucius just stops time and ends him

 

[CodeCCLL]

You can’t just start outside the SBA range, I’m pretty sure all characters have to start within the battlefield even if they have clones.

Yes, unless you count acausality type 3.

 

[Arcker123]

Saying Gremmy doesn't use hax in character is simply a false headcanon that is disproven by statements. I'm not interested in going back and forth over something this blatant so I will post scans again.

Chapter

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Lucius did not need prep time lol,

he gave the Clover Kingdom prep time...

As shown with Morris he can simply use his magic to create Clones immediately when outside of battle.

Still creating clones is done after match starts. I already said that even if it's not prep Lucius can't just use Clones from get to go. He and Gremmy would start with 1 vs 1

• He has no knowledge on Lucius so this is clearly not a point. He needs to know that its magic otherwise he just gets stopped in time.

Bleach has magic. So it doens't matter Gremmy can imagine his body is Resistant to magic just like how he imagined with Kenpachi fight his body is harder than stell to tank Kenpachi attacks.

• Lucius can't use Time Manipulation in Neverneverland, why are you bringing up the latest chapter? Use the chapter where he stops time around himself or use the chapter where Julius stops time around the damn kingdom. Lucius only uses his hands once against Yuno.

Lucius can cast a spell big enough to engulf the clover kingdom if thats a future required for his victory. You are ignoring the fact that Lucius will simply follow the path that leads to victory so if he sees Gremmy in the near future starting with death manipulation from Kilometers away (Gremmy isn't doing allat in character lmao) Lucius just stops time and ends him

Same as above I would go with Gremmy imagines Lucius attack wont work on him or he is resistant to magic. I know about Julius spell covering the Kingdom but its not a starting move so i didn't bothered about it. Anyway I didn't just posted latest chapter scan I literally even put scan for Lucius trying to catch asta inside the sphere with hand movements. Those spheres doesn't pop up out of nowhere.

Also Let's say Lucius sees the future and then what? Like I said above whatever Lucius does can be negated with Gremmy imagination of not working on him.

Also where is this 4KM things come from? OP put 10M distance between them not 4KM.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

There is no way this is a serious argument.

They are in a fight, Gremmy knows inherently Lucius is a threat.

SBA - No knowledge

This is not true though, Yhwach wasn't even using his aura. They just sensed his location, and you can't prove that interpretation at all.

Kenny could've just hidden his aura, which us something souls can do and after his Unohana training kenny became more knowledgeable in Shinigami arts.

You contradict yourself,

If characters have to hide their auras, why would not using his aura matter?

Kenny and Yhwach either passively have auras which need to be actively hidden, or active auras which don't need to be hidden...

No matter how you slice your cake, Gremmy with his enhances senses could not sense Kenny without aura until he barged in so Gremmy's enhanced senses are fodder to the fodder you claim can sense Yhwach without aura.
Most of all, the range of Enhanced senses isn't on his profle or soul page
I will not come back to this until new information is brought up

You misunderstand me. It's not relevant to Gremmy's character when we are explicitly told why he didn't do that.

Ok.

He instantly disabled her with relevant hax, which is what I argued his character to be.
I'm not entertaining this. I've responded to this several times and posted the scans to debunk it.
Because he wanted to explain something to him...

Read the fight dude.
Actual headcanon.
Headcanon that's contradicted by statements. Gremmy's overconfidence doesn't lead him to be sadistic. It's the opposite, his belief in his power is so assured that he doesn't feel a need to fight to prove himself and instead uses hax. Read the manga and the scans I presented.
You're not convincing anyone of anything because you're ignoring the actual statements about Gremmy's character that were provided and just spouting headcanon that's contradicted by these statements.

You're just entirely misinterpreting Gremmy using Headcanon instead of statements.

You and the others have been saying Gremmy starts with death/EE hax not hax in general so quit the red herring.

All im saying is Gremmy's first move in battle (no questions asked whatsoever) isn't a one shot kill move like Death hax/EE as shown with Kenny and Yavhiru.

He literally set the stage for his fight with Kenny cuz he looked strong lmfao, Lucius looks strong too

 

[Arcker123]

SBA - No knowledge

No knowledge about their opponents capacities, the characters still know they are in a fight and believe that losing that fight would have dire consequences.

You contradict yourself,

If characters have to hide their auras, why would not using his aura matter?

Kenny and Yhwach either passively have auras which need to be actively hidden, or active auras which don't need to be hidden...

You can have a passive aura that you can actively hide, there's no contradiction there.

No matter how you slice your cake, Gremmy with his enhances senses could not sense Kenny without aura until he barged in so Gremmy's enhanced senses are fodder to the fodder you claim can sense Yhwach without aura.

Besides the fact you couldn't even prove that he was surprised by the attack, you can't honestly believe that Gremmy's sensory is worse than fodder. It'd just be at most PIS that doesn't apply here as this isn't a surprise attack scenario.

The Shinigami just sensed Yhwach's life force from hundreds of KM away, and you don't have a defeater.

Ok

Concession accepted on this whole character debate ig.

You and the others have been saying Gremmy starts with death/EE hax not hax in general so quit the red herring.

It's not a red herring at all. It's just supporting evidence that Gremmy's character is using whatever hax is most convienent to crush his opponent, which includes EE and Death manipulation.

All im saying is Gremmy's first move in battle (no questions asked whatsoever) isn't Death hax/EE as shown with Kenny and Yavhiru.

You supported this claim by taking the Kenny fight entirely out of context.

He literally did EE Guaneal in his first actual fight anyway which we both agree to.

 

[Arcker123]

Most of all, the range of Enhanced senses isn't on his profle or soul page
I will not come back to this until new information is brought up

Lmao

• Enhanced Senses/Extraordinary Perception (Souls can see and sense spiritual entities[1] with Reiatsu/Reiryoku[10], all beings within Bleach that use Reiatsu/Reiryoku possess an ability called Reikaku. Reikaku allows those with it to see Reiatsu in a physical form, allowing them to see things without needing their eyesight[11])

This ******* dumbass @Deceived3596 really called it "Extraordinary perception" .

 

[Arnoldstone18]

No knowledge about their opponents capacities, the characters still know they are in a fight and believe that losing that fight would have dire consequences.

Yet he didn't start with insta kill hax with kenny and Yachiru.

You can have a passive aura that you can actively hide, there's no contradiction there.

Then Yhwach's aura was just that easy to find given how powerful he is... Gremmy's Enhanced senses range is not 500Km.

Besides the fact you couldn't even prove that he was surprised by the attack, you can't honestly believe that Gremmy's sensory is worse than fodder. It'd just be at most PIS that doesn't apply here as this isn't a surprise attack scenario.

The Shinigami just sensed Yhwach's life force from hundreds of KM away, and you don't have a defeater.

Never mentioned anything about an attack, he only noticed Kenny appear only after he barged in the room.

Since you have conceded that aura is passive, Yhwach's aura was large enough to be felt from 500Km so Gremmy can't sense someone's aura weaker than Yhwach's so he can't sense Lucius' soul and magic hundreds of kilometers away without taking care of the Lucius 10m away.

Concession accepted on this whole character debate ig.

No.

You shifted the debate from doesnt start with insta win haxes to wether or not he start with haxes in general

Thats clearly a strawman argument

It's not a red herring at all. It's just supporting evidence that Gremmy's character is using whatever hax is most convienent to crush his opponent, which includes EE and Death manipulation.

That was never the argument, you just made that the argument so its easier to debate against. Thats clearly strawman since its not red herring.

You supported this claim by taking the Kenny fight entirely out of context.

He literally did EE Guaneal in his first actual fight anyway which we both agree to.

Never took any of his 2/3 fights out of contexts,

He let Guaneal gain the distance on him before EEing him. this is also Guaneal who he has full knowledge on and its implied based on their conversation that he will immediately die if he doesn't deliver.

Not to mention he didn't start with EE against the girl and Kenny who were far bigger threats than Guaneal and people who he didnt have much knowledge on which is the same case as a vsbw match up.

Lmao

This ******* dumbass @Deceived3596 really called it "Extraordinary perception" .

Nothing about range lol.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Gremmy,
Do Lucius clones share the same soul? Because Gremmy has a Body, Soul, and mind EE

They don't

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Still creating clones is done after match starts. I already said that even if it's not prep Lucius can't just use Clones from get to go. He and Gremmy would start with 1 vs 1

Here is the thing... the clone is Lucius himself, not an ability to make clones.

Since we are using current Lucius, his clones and flying throne also start with him.

This is the same case with meta cooler matches, the "clone" starts first even though they are all actually the real meta coolers including the ship thats always in space.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Here is the thing... the clone is Lucius himself, not an ability to make clones.

Since we are using current Lucius, his clones and flying throne also start with him.

This is the same case with meta cooler matches, the "clone" starts first even though they are all actually the real meta coolers including the ship thats always in space.

Idk which meta cooler you are talking about but.

Yes, unless you count acausality type 3.

This ^ and Immortality type 9 are the only exceptions for clones or avatars starting and main body being somewhere else.
Lucius don't have neither acausality type 3 or immortality type 9 so he can't start with clones that's not how matches works.

 

[Arcker123]

Yet he didn't start with insta kill hax with kenny and Yachiru.

I'm not gonna bother explaining hte context over and over to you.

Then Yhwach's aura was just that easy to find given how powerful he is... Gremmy's Enhanced senses range is not 500Km.

Headcanon. They just sensed his prescense/Reiryoku. Yhwach was not flexing Reiatsu or aura at all there.

Never mentioned anything about an attack, he only noticed Kenny appear only after he barged in the room.

Nitpicking word choice that isn't pertinent to the argument. Will you fufill you burden.

Since you have conceded that aura is passive, Yhwach's aura was large enough to be felt from 500Km so Gremmy can't sense someone's aura weaker than Yhwach's so he can't sense Lucius' soul and magic hundreds of kilometers away without taking care of the Lucius 10m away.

This is all headcanon. They were sensing Yhwach's Reiryoku not aura.

This is irrelevant anyway since Lucius is starting 10m away and is thus in Gremmy's eyeline.

No.

You shifted the debate from doesnt start with insta win haxes to wether or not he start with haxes in general

Thats clearly a strawman argument

So why are you ignoring why I brought that up? It's simply a supporting argument, don't accuse me of strawmanning lmao.

That was never the argument, you just made that the argument so its easier to debate against. Thats clearly strawman since its not red herring.

It;s funny that you make that accusation depsite me explaining why I brought it up, and you doing this exact thing by shifting your claim from red herring to strawman lmao.

Never took any of his 2/3 fights out of contexts,

You keep bringing up Kenpachi and not refuting the scans and context I argued multiple times. This debate is merely stonewalling.

He let Guaneal gain the distance on him before EEing him. this is also Guaneal who he has full knowledge on and its implied based on their conversation that he will immediately die if he doesn't deliver.

So is him getting his shoulder removed not EE?

Are we just going to ignore why Gremmy didn't EE instantly, which I explained multiple times? This is tiresome.

Not to mention he didn't start with EE against the girl and Kenny who were far bigger threats than Guaneal and people who he didnt have much knowledge on which is the same case as a vsbw match up.

Lmao. Read Bleach or the scans. That's all I can tell you.

You have not refuted any statements about Gremmy's character and continue to repeat headcanon. This debate is so pointless.

Nothing about range lol.

It's in the early 500's iirc.