Kill me please.
No because the Crystal Stars are stronger than her.
And yet she isn't one-shot by them, you realize you can still scale off of someone who is still stronger than you right? You don't need to be equal to scale to someone, I should not be explaining this shit.
Overtime creation doesn't scale to AP this is relevant.
This isn't scaling based off of cosmology or shit, this is her making an item that has her own magic, making the scaling. Timeframe doesn't matter when we know she can already take hits from it and still harm Mario.
You are making shit up at no point in the game is space ever brought up nor is the scale beyond a single planet that is being folded over time. And even then it is only after Olly is amped that he begins to fold the fabric of reality. Olly folding "the structure of all space and time" is your headcanon that isn't demonstrated in the story.
Ignoring the the meaning of "the very fabric of reality" is what you cannot argue against. What is shown prior does not matter, this does not suddenly invalidate what the word means, that shit is your headcanon. Olly being amped is irrelevant when Mario already overpowers and harms him BEFORE using the Magic Circle. Which by the way, still does not amp Mario, not once has it through the entire game. 1,000 folded arms is meant for hard to reach places.
So you don't have any reason to show that the Black Jewel's magic scales to its creation of a universe?
Because magic can be used for different purposes without scaling to itself.
Matt, you would have to prove their is different types of magic, any examples you have is for a verse that has rules on it. I do not have to prove a negative.
It's not a Low 2-C feat. Changing a Dream into a Nightmare is not AP, it's just Dream Manipulation hax. You have yet to explain how it scales to Antasma's kicks or beak or wings or his body or even his magic-based attacks in any way, shape, or form. Saying that it is a Low 2-C on repeat won't make it right, it's just stonewalling.
"Significantly affect" is irrelevant when changing a dream into a nightmare is utterly unquantifiable. It's still a Dream World all you show it's thtat he has hax.
I acknowledge the rules of this site, and I will not back off. Again you are acting disrespectfully for no reason.
Because you still ignore how Antasma even has this power to begin with and why it isn't some hax only attack. Dream World. He gets his power from being inside of dream worlds, that's how he has full power. If his low 2-C power comes from using the dream world to boost him, this applies to everything else. Only picking one thing is cherrypicking.
It's not, you realize dream worlds are universes separate from the real world. He is corrupting/changing a universe, that is considered Low 2-C.
You are not when you clearly make exceptions. "Why yes, we have a hax method to become Low 2-C. This verse has an example? No, let's not make it scale to anything."
I'd be fine with downgrading Rosalina's shield if that's what you want!
Other than that, Bowser wasn't shown to be damaged, he was shown to be confused as were Mario and Peach, because they all woke up on the ground whereas before they were in space.
He didn't survive neither the explosion nor the space, only Mario and Peach did because they were shielded, you are ignoring the entire ending of the game and official statements in favor of a headcanon. Again, I'm going to ask you to drop this as you have no evidence.
Haha, no. If we allow Rosalina tanking the reset as Low 2-C, Bowser gets the same. You'd have to downgrade Rosalina first. Until then, you still cannot argue this.
There goes Matt ignoring shit again.
- "Mario and Peach manage to escape Bowser's immediate fate, but the reactor's force is too strong."
- "Even Bowser is there, shaken by his narrow escape from a horrible fate."
Mario and Peach simply get up, Bowser literally stumbles around and grabs his head.
**** off with that, there are statements and showing you choose to ignore. Hell, not once did you address any of these above ^
Yes, he can't tank it. I'll explain it. Getting his ass burnt red isn't tanking, I'm sorry. Look up the definition of the term. If he can't even touch a small portion of the energy used to power the generator without hurting himself then his physical body obviously doesn't scale to the entirety of this power. Nor to the universal destruction the generator's collapse caused.
The answer is that Mario isn't stronger than Amped Bowser because in Mario Galaxy you defeat Bowser by having Bowser burn his ass on the reactor so Bowser is stunned and then hitting him. It's a game mechanic that Bowser is invincible if not stunned first.
Yes, because ground pounding the energy several times without dying means your durability isn't comparable, great logic. He can keep jumping into it as much as he wants, not once will he die from it. Saying he can't scale off of that is ridiculous.
Stunned?
You consider Bowser burning, Mario hitting him several times as stunned? That just shows it's an opening for Mario, hit him while distracted. Did the exact same thing in Odyssey.
Culex's rating comes from his in-game dialogue in the Japanese Version of the game. If you recall, in the Culex Thread, using the American Script was rejected as you were exposed as cherrypicking from two completely different scripts to feign validation, as well as Nintendo Power scaling was rejected by multiple staff (Me, Ryukama, Antvasima, Kep, etc.)
Wart comes from Super Mario Bros 2 USA, an american game, and in it we were fine using the American Made manual for scaling. You cannot pretend it is the same as using the Nintendo Power Guide for Super Mario 64, a Japanese Game, while also using Japanese scans for in-game stuff . Either one or another, you can't pick both. And we are going with the original language as we do for the entire wiki.
And his guide supported that, good to know. Mistranslation =/= Unallowed guide, you are talking about two completely different things. Dishonest yet again.
Funny how you still argued against it. So not only do we still allow guides, but we already do for others such as Galaxy. Again, you still do not decide if we can't use it.
Proof that the magic they used to fight the Pixls are the same as the magic tech they used with the Pixls to create worlds. You cannot. Also prove that they created the worlds instantly.
I. Do. Not. Need. To. Prove. A. Negative.
That is something
you prove, not me. Saying I need to prove every bit of detail is again, a shotgun argumentation fallacy.
Not only that, but the Pixls still fought them, they would have to use their magic as that is their only option for combat. Merlee also again is stated to be overpowered by Mimi.
If there's no context for how they did it either then Low 2-C is wrong too for them.
Creating a universe over time is just 3-B as well. It doesn't matter if the universe has space-time, creation over time doesn't scale to the full size.
Magic, just like everything else they do. That's their thing.
Creating a universe over time is 3-B. Creating an infinite-sized universe that also has its own time isn't.
You showed me no scan for this, and yet you choose to insult me. The statement that they built the Flipside town isn't evidence that they can casually create universes out their butts.
"Flipside is a town between dimensions, created by the Ancients" That's all you have, and that's not a good source for Low 2-C Ancients.
Flipside itself is an entire dimension, unless a dimension between dimension already existed.
Yeah, they made a dimension on their own. Low 2-C.
Hell they were even stated they can destroy them. Inb4 "with what magic, how much time".
"Saving the universe" doesn't mean **** all. In the actual game which you always choose to ignore in favor of random unsourced statements we see that the Shadow Queen intended to cover the world (i.e, the planet) in her darkness and then rule it. That's it. We are physically shown it right before the right when the darkness covers every village you visit in the game and the NPCs start saying it's the end of the world.
"Hmm, lets say in our game, we have this final boss who can destroy the universe. So out hero has to save the universe." Next game "Let's add the description of our hero, he has to save the universe again like last time", I seriously do not know how this isn't supporting it. Also you keep talking about the Shadow Queen, but the Crystal Stars are still the items Grodus was trying to use, not sure why that is your point.
If Mario who is not amped fights a Bowser that is both non-amped and "Amped" by the same method of burning his butt then the amp ******* sucks.
Also the spin punch attack you use to damage Bowser in Galaxy is a move you unlock over the course of the game that Mario normally doesn't, so that also counts as an upgrade for Mario over the course of the game.
Bowser isn't amped either, the Grand Stars are inside the reactor. Its base forms.
Really using the Luma amp? Extra reaching. Luma was needed because Mario needed the power to travel through space. Aka, use the Launch Star which you spin to use.
But even if she didn't that doesn't scale to the main cast. If Rosalina was able to physically tank an explosion that Mario and Peach needed to be shielded from, then she's obviously far stronger than Mario and Peach.
Says who? You wouldn't want to be shielded from something can hurt you, even if it doesn't kill you? I can shield my allies in Earthbound to prevent damage, guess I can't scale everyone.
So you're telling me that Mario had an infinite-level power jump with absolutely no justification for it, he did not train or undergo anything special, nor is there any actual hint that Mario grows in power level throughout the years
This is false and to anyone who says Mario's strength has stayed is false. There are many examples of Mario getting stronger overtime.
SMRPG: Geno needed help to defeat Bowyer early game (Bowyer even states his attacks are stronger). When reaching Smithy's Factory, you fight an even stronger version of Bowyer. And the cast can stomp him easily.
Paper Mario: Mario at the start can barley take hits from a Star Rod and loses easily. By the end of the game, he can survive these attacks more easily. Jr Troopa is someone you rematch a lot. During each fight, he states he's been getting stronger. The Koopa Bros can keep up with Mario at the start. Later on they state they've been training non-stop and have gotten much more stronger than before. Jr. Troopa one-shots all of four.
Superstar Saga: Bowser is defeated by Fawful at the start. Luigi later in the game defeats Fawful on his own easily.
TTYD: Several characters such as the Armored Harriers, Rawk Hawk, Grodus, and the Shadow Queen overpower/are comparable to Mario. These characters later on get defeated by Mario easily later on.
PiT: The Bros get one-shot by the Shroob UFO beam. Later they defeat the enemy that literally drinks that same energy to use as an attack.
SPM: O'Chunks and Mimi state they got stronger since the last time they've fought. They were already comparable to the cast prior.
BiS: This game has too much to list. For a short version, Bowser is constantly stated to get stronger and defeats enemies who stomped him. The Bros still easily defeat End-Game Bowser and a stronger version, Bowser X. As well as stuff like the Dark Star energy.
SS: Mario is knocked out by Shiny Bowser from a touch. He later defeats his first form.
Dream Team: An amped Bowser and Antasma stomp Mario/Dreamy Luigi. They can later defeat an even stronger form of Antasma.
CS: Mario is stated to get stronger after each boss battle.
TOK: Mario is consistently stated by Olivia to be getting stronger throughout the game.
So yes, Mario does indeed get stronger the more he fights.
Rosalina scaling. Unless someone has proof Rosalina was just holding back, they can scale. She is canonically playable post-game, which there are four extra worlds. In addition you can also ground pound your teammates and iirc they shout "ouch" when doing this so...
Also, encompassing "All Reality" doesn't mean he creates or destroys the Universe containing the Mushroom Kingdom. It means he can conquer it over time by recruiting forces from the painting realms. But he himself doesn't appear Universal physically just from that statement alone.
I never used this as an argument, I was referring to terms.
I disagree with Dream Team examples a great deal. I feel like this is just hiding an outlier. Antasma is 2-B so it's a 2-B feat outright; disguising it as a Low 2-C low end feat just to scale to Mario is just hiding an outlier.
Antasma is not 2-B in this fight, he is only 2-B via the Dark Stone. However he never uses it against Mario, as he destroyed it a long time ago. If you agree it is Low 2-C then...
I am not accepting DRB nor Weekly's votes if they have nothing to add. At least Matt and Ryu have an argument.
