Lord of the Rings Discussion Thread

[Hsharpe]

Could the Ainur theoretically have Gravity Manip and be able to resist it?

And also, how exactly would the Ainur utilize some of their hax in battle, namely their Concept Manip and Subjective Reality w/ their Songs of Power and Words of Command?

 

[Tyranno223]

Could the Ainur theoretically have Gravity Manip and be able to resist it?

Probably not, although they do make stars and planets.

And also, how exactly would the Ainur utilize some of their hax in battle, namely their Concept Manip and Subjective Reality w/ their Songs of Power and Words of Command?

Pre-Eä, their singing quite literally made new ones arise according to their imagination and lessons under Eru. These could oppose or destroy Concepts if opposing ones exist as did occur in the struggle between Melkor's discourse and the faithful music. The second an Ainu begins singing, their desired concepts would become extant and the Song would destroy/overpower opposing or undesired ones.

Alternatively, if the opposing ones clash and are not overpowered, new ones can form (like frost from Ulmo's Water and Melkor's Fire).

Presumably they can also manipulate Concepts with an exertion of will (as they do later), although whether they can destroy them with this method is unknown.

Post-Eä it's more ambiguous but also more underwhelming as they seemingly can't destroy Concepts due to their diminishing. Ainur can manipulate theirs to a certain effect, for example Manwë manipulating the Winds to blow by exerting his influence over his domain (for example, to blow winds that contain his spirit to subdue enemies). Alternatively Ulmo uses his command over water to hear all news from events that take place near or in waters. They essentially just have a great command over concepts, with Ainur having no known limit in regards to their own Concept (although NLF don't assume they can do everything) and being able to even control other ones (although this requires an investment of power).

Songs of Power are also rather ambiguous. Effects take place according to what is sung, but nothing too dramatic is ever really done, although Luthien (and Galadriel is implied) do use it do deconstruct fortifications and fortresses. The Song duel between Sauron and Finrod for instance saw Sauron sing about the disguises of Finrod's party to come undone while Finrod sang about them remaining in place and there was an exchange of power as the two exerted their will onto the other(s). It has ambiguous limits, but likely the limit is the user's own power (hence Sauron winning due to his immense power despite Finrod being powerful himself).

Words of Command we know barely anything about. Gandalf speaks a commanding sentence and the desired effect happens. For instance, cold and wet wood becomes alight when Gandalf commands them to become alight. That being said, it has limits as he can not command fire to appear out of thin-air for example.

 

[Hsharpe]

Pre-Eä, their singing quite literally made new ones arise according to their imagination and lessons under Eru. These could oppose or destroy Concepts if opposing ones exist as did occur in the struggle between Melkor's discourse and the faithful music. The second an Ainu begins singing, their desired concepts would become extant and the Song would destroy/overpower opposing or undesired ones.

Alternatively, if the opposing ones clash and are not overpowered, new ones can form (like frost from Ulmo's Water and Melkor's Fire).

Presumably they can also manipulate Concepts with an exertion of will (as they do later), although whether they can destroy them with this method is unknown.

Post-Eä it's more ambiguous but also more underwhelming as they seemingly can't destroy Concepts due to their diminishing. Ainur can manipulate theirs to a certain effect, for example Manwë manipulating the Winds to blow by exerting his influence over his domain (for example, to blow winds that contain his spirit to subdue enemies). Alternatively Ulmo uses his command over water to hear all news from events that take place near or in waters. They essentially just have a great command over concepts, with Ainur having no known limit in regards to their own Concept (although NLF don't assume they can do everything) and being able to even control other ones (although this requires an investment of power).

Songs of Power are also rather ambiguous. Effects take place according to what is sung, but nothing too dramatic is ever really done, although Luthien (and Galadriel is implied) do use it do deconstruct fortifications and fortresses. The Song duel between Sauron and Finrod for instance saw Sauron sing about the disguises of Finrod's party to come undone while Finrod sang about them remaining in place and there was an exchange of power as the two exerted their will onto the other(s). It has ambiguous limits, but likely the limit is the user's own power (hence Sauron winning due to his immense power despite Finrod being powerful himself).

Words of Command we know barely anything about. Gandalf speaks a commanding sentence and the desired effect happens. For instance, cold and wet wood becomes alight when Gandalf commands them to become alight. That being said, it has limits as he can not command fire to appear out of thin-air for example.

Well explained. But now I have another question (there are so many I have but I'll be slow with em ). Do the Valar have Resistance to their own BFR and Sealing? Or at least BFR and Sealing in general?

 

[Tyranno223]

Well explained. But now I have another question (there are so many I have but I'll be slow with em ). Do the Valar have Resistance to their own BFR and Sealing? Or at least BFR and Sealing in general?

For BFR, I plan to add Dimensional Travelling to the Pre-Eä (which'll be High 1-A+ anyway if all goes well). They can also manipulate and open dimensional walls currently in Post-Eä. There's many types of BFR anyway (something like knocking them into space is meaningless). The BFR of the Valar is done by literally pushing someone out through the Doors of Night and slamming the door on them. They can't really resist their own. Manwë might get his own BFR which he does by blowing them out of the universe (likely through the Doors) and it's done his own wind.

Sealing, not really unless it can be overcome by Dimensional travel or incorporeality. If Goku does a Mafuba on Tulkas for example, he might get out by abandoning his body or something.

 

[Hsharpe]

I have cooked a Death Battle, and I shall give it to you all for your viewing

Morgoth VS. Cyn (Tolkien VS Murder Drones)

Melkor/Morgoth - The Silmarillion Cyn - Murder Drones Boomstick: Morgoth, the First Dark Lord and Master of Sauron! Wiz: And Cyn, the First Host of the Absolute Solver! Boomstick: Where there is good, there is evil! Where there is light, there is darkness! Where there is order, there is chaos...

deathbattlefanon.fandom.com

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

I have cooked a Death Battle, and I shall give it to you all for your viewing

Morgoth VS. Cyn (Tolkien VS Murder Drones)

Melkor/Morgoth - The Silmarillion Cyn - Murder Drones Boomstick: Morgoth, the First Dark Lord and Master of Sauron! Wiz: And Cyn, the First Host of the Absolute Solver! Boomstick: Where there is good, there is evil! Where there is light, there is darkness! Where there is order, there is chaos...

deathbattlefanon.fandom.com

I dig it! I will say that when Morgoth's stats were lowest (aka when he's weak enough that Cyn might be able to hurt him) he was no longer capable of shedding his physical form and reconstituting it at all because he'd invested too much of himself into Middle Earth. But this was a great fight, good calcs, and even in his weakest form Morgoth does brutally outspeed.

 

[Hsharpe]

I dig it! I will say that when Morgoth's stats were lowest (aka when he's weak enough that Cyn might be able to hurt him) he was no longer capable of shedding his physical form and reconstituting it at all because he'd invested too much of himself into Middle Earth. But this was a great fight, good calcs, and even in his weakest form Morgoth does brutally outspeed.

Nice hearing your review and takeaway. I will admit, I feel like I was a little too generous to Morgoth on that part, but I do feel like I didn’t do enough for both characters, and I did actually plan on making the fight much longer than it currently is, but I was burnt out and kinda gave up a bit. Though overall, if you were to rate it 1 to 10, what would it be?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Nice hearing your review and takeaway. I will admit, I feel like I was a little too generous to Morgoth on that part, but I do feel like I didn’t do enough for both characters, and I did actually plan on making the fight much longer than it currently is, but I was burnt out and kinda gave up a bit. Though overall, if you were to rate it 1 to 10, what would it be?

It was a solid 9 for me overall. It was well written, which is already leaps and bounds above most other fights on the DB fanon wiki!

 

[Hsharpe]

It was a solid 9 for me overall. It was well written, which is already leaps and bounds above most other fights on the DB fanon wiki!

Glad to hear. I also threw a little Wizard of Oz reference in there if you didn’t notice it yet.

 

[Hsharpe]

Morgoth to Cyn after that Death Battle: "YOU ARE EITHER LYING, OR YOU'RE STUPID!!"
Cyn's response: "[I'm stupid, I'm stupid!]"

Source for you all to behold and picture in your head:

 

[Tyranno223]

Found a hilarious but pretty good stamina feat for High Elves (and Maiar) in that Thingol and Melian ended up in a trance where they stared at each other for over 200 years without eating or sleeping. That's... surprisingly handy. Turns out google can be handy.

On a less pleasant note, Maedhros gets tortured by Morgoth for up to 33.7 years... Somehow the poor guy recovers.

Let me correct myself.

At least 200 years up to 3168 years... the heck?

 

[Hsharpe]

Let me correct myself.

At least 200 years up to 3168 years... the heck?

BROOOO

 

[Tyranno223]

BROOOO

Talk about relationship goals.

 

[Hsharpe]

Talk about relationship goals.

Speaking of which, do you think we can try using the 1 Valian Year = 144 Solar Years to measure Fingolfin and Fëanor’s ages so we can then apply those to their profiles?

 

[Tyranno223]

Speaking of which, do you think we can try using the 1 Valian Year = 144 Solar Years to measure Fingolfin and Fëanor’s ages so we can then apply those to their profiles?

Probably, but I'm not really too worried about ages right now.

 

[Hsharpe]

Decided to quickly calculate Fingolfin and Fëanor's ages

Fëanor
Fëanor was first born in YT 1169, and died in YT 1497. So that makes a total of 328 Valian Years lived. Math for it provided…
1497 - 1169 = 328.

One Valian Year is 144 Solar Years. So multiply 328 by that…
328 x 144 = 47,232

Therefore, Fëanor is around 47,232 Solar Years old.


Fingolfin
Fingolfin was born in YT 1190, and the Year of the Trees ended at 1500. This’ll be excluding the Years of the Sun for now, but we’ll get to that. So…
1500 - 1190 = 310

With that, we can then multiply it by 144, which gives us...
310 x 144 = 44,640

With that done, we can move on. Fingolfin died in the Year of the Sun F.A 456, so…
44,640 + 456 = 45,096

Therefore, Fingolfin is 45,096 Solar Years old.

 

[Tyranno223]

Decided to quickly calculate Fingolfin and Fëanor's ages

Fëanor
Fëanor was first born in YT 1169, and died in YT 1497. So that makes a total of 328 Valian Years lived. Math for it provided…
1497 - 1169 = 328.

One Valian Year is 144 Solar Years. So multiply 328 by that…
328 x 144 = 47,232

Therefore, Fëanor is around 47,232 Solar Years old.


Fingolfin
Fingolfin was born in YT 1190, and the Year of the Trees ended at 1500. This’ll be excluding the Years of the Sun for now, but we’ll get to that. So…
1500 - 1190 = 310

With that, we can then multiply it by 144, which gives us...
310 x 144 = 44,640

With that done, we can move on. Fingolfin died in the Year of the Sun F.A 456, so…
44,640 + 456 = 45,096

Therefore, Fingolfin is 45,096 Solar Years old.

Huh... this implies they'd be in the "Mature" life stage from NoME. That doesn't quite makes sense since they were meant to be in their prime. Although the Silmarillion does alternatively imply the waning starts after a million years but that has its own issues.