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This is a downgrade thread for all of the Dark Star / Cosmic Court keys of League of Legends Characters, including:
Thresh, Ashe, Jarvan IV, Kassadi, Lulu, Master Yi, Raka, Xayah, Xin Zhao, Jhi, Cho'Gath, Karma, Kha'Zix, Orianna Reveck, Kay, Shaco, Varus.
Current Justifications
The current justification for their Low 1-C status is as follows. This is Thresh's justification, but everyone at least has the first sentence as justification.
"Dark Stars are capable of destroying all of existence, which is consistently referred to as an infinite number of universes, timelines, and realities, as well as consuming the 5-Dimensional realm of The Void. Thresh has destroyed entire realities before, Stated he has the capacity to consume time, space and reality, Thresh does not even need to use his strongest attack to end the universe as even his Dark Matter Scythe alone is capable of destroying the universe"
So lets pick this apart.
"Even his Dark Matter scythe alone is capable of destroying the universe" is justified by a quote on the Dark Matter Scythe saying "if you want to create a singularity you must first destroy the universe". Hmmm. It's quite the stretch to say that quote means "his Dark Matter Scythe alone is capable of destroying the universe". I don't buy it. That quote is not nearly enough justification to back up the idea that his scythe alone can destroy the universe.
"Thresh does not even need to use his strongest attack to end the universe" - the link gets redirected to a basic LoL page, so I'm left with nothing. So there's no justification to be found here in the first place.
"Stated he has the capacity to consume time, space and reality" - comes from his respawn quote ""Time, space, reality - we shall consume all". Cool beans. Do we have a timeframe for this? No? Then I'll get to this in a bit.
"Thresh has destroyed realities before" - comes from his quote when fighting Baron. Again, no timeframe or method given. I'll explain how Dark Star's destruction of realities actually happens over time further down.
This justification for "destroying all of existence" comes from a line by Pulsefire Ezreal, which states "Nobody devours of existence on my watch, I live in there". That's not much to go on, but still possibly serviceable as a justification... until you actually take a look at the Even Horizon lore for these characters. I'll get to that
The Lore
Cosmic Queen Ashe: Benevolent ruler of the stars, Ashe fires her arrows across the endless darkness of space, creating new constellations wherever they fall. Her court drifts between galaxies, replenishing all the lights that have faded.
Cosmic Enchantress Lulu: Tasked with charting the heavens, Lulu's whimsical splashes of magic dot the sky with newborn stars. She keeps meticulous records of their names, mourning each of them when they finally pass.
Cosmic Beacon Lux: The right hand of Queen Ashe, Lux weaves celestial constellations, bringing order to a universe drifting towards entropy. When the Dark Star began corrupting members of the Cosmic Court, Lux stepped forward to confront Thresh. Yet she harbors a terrible secret—a shard of darkness that has always lived within her heart, whispering temptations…
Cosmic Defender Xin Zhao: Great horrors are attracted to the light of newborn stars—from the corruptants of the Dark Star, to squirming, ancient things yet unknown. Xin Zhao is the steadfast protector of these cosmic cradles, driving off any that would devour them.
Dark Cosmic Jhin: Jhin was an interstellar entity, consumed by the Dark Star and given new purpose. Now his ageless mind is infected by visions of omnipotence, and consumed by an insatiable hunger. He scours entire regions of space seemingly on a whim, using the remnants to create bizarre, silent objets d'art.
Dark Star Mordekaiser: Once a member of the Cosmic Court, Mordekaiser vanished from known space for an epoch—until now. Reborn and returned from an unknown destruction, Mordekaiser seems bent on unmaking the kingdoms of stars and light he once built. Though he still bears his Cosmic armor, the mind and figure within has been twisted and reforged to know only hatred and destruction.
Dark Star Cho'Gath: Spawned from the remnants of a star system crippled by famine, Cho'Gath is driven to feed on any celestial body that crosses his path. These feasts swirl into the twin black holes at his heart—as endless and ageless as his hunger.
Dark Star Karma: Karma was a galaxy-spanning civilizatio dedicated to pacifism and personal enlightenment, unceremoniously erased from reality and reborn as a star-consuming horror. Devouring entire galactic systems, she enforces a dread order upon the cosmos, meditating in the vast oceans of emptiness where once there were stars.
Dark Star Kha'Zix: The hunger of the abyss, Kha'Zix is an alien horror whose ceaseless appetite feeds the Dark Star. Appearing before planets like a titanic locust, it devours all it encounters—the power of a hundred thousand stars fueling its evolution into an ever-greater threat.
Dark Star Malphite: The remnants of a once lush and enormous exo-planet, the Dark Star consumed and reformed the broken cluster of planetary debris into a twisted consciousness, ever pulling others into its orbit, and unleashing oblivion upon all who cross its path.
Prestige Dark Star Malphite: Gilded by the Dark Star's touch and empowered through its radiance, Malphite barrels across space, demolishing entire systems and consuming the broken remnants into his immense and twisted form.
Dark Star Shaco: Shaco was once a region of space known for raucous celebration, wiped clean by the Dark Star and reborn into the mocking visage of a jester. His twisted cackling reaches inhabited systems long before he does, provoking visions of destruction, and societal breakdowns that will soon feed his endless hunger.
Dark Star Varus: An interstellar titan containing multitudes within his eldritch mind, Varus serves the all-consuming Dark Star, a dread singularity born in the darkness of deep space. His arrival is a cataclysmic extinction event, erasing entire planetary systems as if they were never there.
Dark Star Xerath: As the Dark Star continued on its path across space, it passed through a vibrant system orbiting a supergiant star. Consuming all life and light as it passed , the Dark Star twisted the supergiant into a wrathful corruptant. Thus, Xerath was born—a dark being of malice and annihilation.
Dark Star Orianna: Born out of the remnants of a magnificently advanced system, Orianna serves the Dark Star with meticulous precision. She dances across galaxies in an endlessly horrifying performance, the only witness is the silent trail of destruction left in her wake.
Dark Star Thresh: A cosmic nightmare who worships the all-consuming Dark Star, Thresh vows to feed the whole of existence to his "god" until all matter, time, and thought are erased. His work will be complete when nothing remains, freeing him to finally leap into the singularity and become one with the end of the universe.
As has been made increasingly clear, the characters of Event Horizon are consistently depicted as having power across Tier 4 (various Dark Star characters are the remnants of planetary systems, Lulu makes stars, Ashe and Lux/Corrupted Lux both create constellations, Kha'Zix is fueled by a hundred thousand stars, etc) and possibly up to Tier 3 in one case (Karma being created from a galactic civilisation). Thresh initially appears as an outlier here, "Feeding all of existence to his god".
Also, here are some quotes from the champions to back this up even more.
"Stars culled of life, silent in the darkness"
"The cry of a dying star - nothing's sweeter"
"We shall suck the marrow from their stars"
Have you ever seen a thousand stars alight in a shared dawn? We have - just before we snuffed them out.
Every luminous star laid bear. Torn open, devoured
Join your precious stars in oblivion.
Suns, moons? We have devoured both."
The stars die as we approach.
Watch the stars blink out, one by one.
You get the gist. Quotes
Counter Arguments
But Monarch, you say. What about all the quotes like Thresh's "I am the herald of reality's end", and "I've destroyed realities" and "Even the universe will grind to a halt", and "become one with the end of the universe" and Ezreal's "No one devours all of existence on my watch" and Rhaast's "It turns out the scythe was evil and wants to annihilate all reality" It would be remiss of me to not address these quotes. After all, it appears fairly obvious that the Dark Stars can indeed destroy the universe. However, there's something important to note. None of these feats are given a timeframe. Huh. So in other words... this could be happening over time. Let's see what we can find. Have a look at these quotes from the Dark Star lore:
"As the Dark Star continued on its path across space" (note that the use of singular and "the Dark Star" rather than "a Dark Star" implies this refers to the true "Dark Star", Thresh's god, rather than any individual member of the Dark Star Champions)
"Malphite barrels across space...unleashing oblivion upon all who cross its path"
"His (Shaco's) twisted cackling reaches inhabited systems long before he does"
"Cho'Gath is driven to feed on any celestial body that crosses his path"
Appearing before planets like a titanic locust, it devours all it encounters
"She dances across galaxies in an endlessly horrifying performance"
"His arrival is a cataclysmic extinction event"
"Thresh vows to feed the whole of existence to his "god" until all matter, time, and thought are erased. His work will be complete when nothing remains"
"The galaxy will suffocate in darkness" - it will suffocate in darkness, implying this is something that is going to happen eventually, not immediately.
What do all of these quotes from the lore have in common? They all depict the Dark Star and its servants as moving across the universe through space, destroying solar systems and stars one by one, eventually causing the end of the universe once the Dark Star has consumed everything in it. In Thresh's lore it even states he is doing this "until" all matter, time and thought are erased, and only when nothing remains will he be done. Continuing his work "until" means that he is doing this over time. He isn't wiping out the whole of existence at once, he is working his way through it.
Conclusion
Conclusion? The Dark Star and its servants are not each capable of destroying all of existence on one single blow. The "devour all of existence" statement Ezreal makes, and the "destroyed realities before" of Thresh do not refer to instant events, they refer to how the Dark Star and its servants are steadily moving across the universe, devouring everything that exists in it one by one, and feeding it to the Dark Star. Eventually, the entire universe would be erased, consumed by the living black hole singularity that is the Dark Star god, reducing the entire universe, matter, time (inspired by the idea that black holes consume space-time as they grow) and thought (because everything is erased and can't think), to nothing. They have done this to previous universes before, and now they are trying to do it to the Cosmic's universe, and then they will move on to the next, eventually devouring "all of existence".
So either we take this nice logical explanation that matches up neatly with the lore of these characters, or we ignore it in favour of pretending that all the "destroy all of existence" stuff happens instantly and that everything about the dark stars travelling through the universe eating star systems one by one is just them taking their time for no reason.
I mean, if nothing else, Thresh literally wants to be one with the end of the universe, to embrace oblivion. You'd think that if he could just wipe out of all of existence with a single attack from his Dark Matter Scythe, he'd ... you know... do it. Instead of ******* around eating planets and stars one by one. But he doesn't. Because as has been made pretty damn clear... he can't.
Changes
AP and Durability
Dark Stars and Cosmics should be downgraded to"High 4-C to possibly 3-C". The High 4-C comes from the various lores about them destroying star systems, being forged of supermassive stars, creating constellations, etc etc. The possibly 3-C comes from Karma being a galactic civilisation reforged into a dark star. This is a "possibly" mainly because a galactic civilisation doesn't necessarily mean an entire galaxy.
Update: I have found a statement of Dark Lux destroying a galaxy with a thought. I have also found two statements from Dark Star Jhin that he finds destroying and killing galaxies to be "derivative" and "pedestrian". Though this could refer simply to his artistic taste wanting him to do more than just destroy, or destroy in a special fancy way or something, these are enough to remove the "possibly" from the "Galaxy level" rating.
Speed
All the links get redirected, so there is currently no evidence for any of it. Either someone finds the evidence and presents it here or they all just becomeMFTL by virtue of crossing interstellar distances and shooting arrows that become constellations and stuff like that.
Update: Apparently such a speed feat would be MFTL+ instead
Thresh, Ashe, Jarvan IV, Kassadi, Lulu, Master Yi, Raka, Xayah, Xin Zhao, Jhi, Cho'Gath, Karma, Kha'Zix, Orianna Reveck, Kay, Shaco, Varus.
Current Justifications
The current justification for their Low 1-C status is as follows. This is Thresh's justification, but everyone at least has the first sentence as justification.
"Dark Stars are capable of destroying all of existence, which is consistently referred to as an infinite number of universes, timelines, and realities, as well as consuming the 5-Dimensional realm of The Void. Thresh has destroyed entire realities before, Stated he has the capacity to consume time, space and reality, Thresh does not even need to use his strongest attack to end the universe as even his Dark Matter Scythe alone is capable of destroying the universe"
So lets pick this apart.
"Even his Dark Matter scythe alone is capable of destroying the universe" is justified by a quote on the Dark Matter Scythe saying "if you want to create a singularity you must first destroy the universe". Hmmm. It's quite the stretch to say that quote means "his Dark Matter Scythe alone is capable of destroying the universe". I don't buy it. That quote is not nearly enough justification to back up the idea that his scythe alone can destroy the universe.
"Thresh does not even need to use his strongest attack to end the universe" - the link gets redirected to a basic LoL page, so I'm left with nothing. So there's no justification to be found here in the first place.
"Stated he has the capacity to consume time, space and reality" - comes from his respawn quote ""Time, space, reality - we shall consume all". Cool beans. Do we have a timeframe for this? No? Then I'll get to this in a bit.
"Thresh has destroyed realities before" - comes from his quote when fighting Baron. Again, no timeframe or method given. I'll explain how Dark Star's destruction of realities actually happens over time further down.
This justification for "destroying all of existence" comes from a line by Pulsefire Ezreal, which states "Nobody devours of existence on my watch, I live in there". That's not much to go on, but still possibly serviceable as a justification... until you actually take a look at the Even Horizon lore for these characters. I'll get to that
The Lore
Cosmic Queen Ashe: Benevolent ruler of the stars, Ashe fires her arrows across the endless darkness of space, creating new constellations wherever they fall. Her court drifts between galaxies, replenishing all the lights that have faded.
Cosmic Enchantress Lulu: Tasked with charting the heavens, Lulu's whimsical splashes of magic dot the sky with newborn stars. She keeps meticulous records of their names, mourning each of them when they finally pass.
Cosmic Beacon Lux: The right hand of Queen Ashe, Lux weaves celestial constellations, bringing order to a universe drifting towards entropy. When the Dark Star began corrupting members of the Cosmic Court, Lux stepped forward to confront Thresh. Yet she harbors a terrible secret—a shard of darkness that has always lived within her heart, whispering temptations…
Cosmic Defender Xin Zhao: Great horrors are attracted to the light of newborn stars—from the corruptants of the Dark Star, to squirming, ancient things yet unknown. Xin Zhao is the steadfast protector of these cosmic cradles, driving off any that would devour them.
Dark Cosmic Jhin: Jhin was an interstellar entity, consumed by the Dark Star and given new purpose. Now his ageless mind is infected by visions of omnipotence, and consumed by an insatiable hunger. He scours entire regions of space seemingly on a whim, using the remnants to create bizarre, silent objets d'art.
Dark Star Mordekaiser: Once a member of the Cosmic Court, Mordekaiser vanished from known space for an epoch—until now. Reborn and returned from an unknown destruction, Mordekaiser seems bent on unmaking the kingdoms of stars and light he once built. Though he still bears his Cosmic armor, the mind and figure within has been twisted and reforged to know only hatred and destruction.
Dark Star Cho'Gath: Spawned from the remnants of a star system crippled by famine, Cho'Gath is driven to feed on any celestial body that crosses his path. These feasts swirl into the twin black holes at his heart—as endless and ageless as his hunger.
Dark Star Karma: Karma was a galaxy-spanning civilizatio dedicated to pacifism and personal enlightenment, unceremoniously erased from reality and reborn as a star-consuming horror. Devouring entire galactic systems, she enforces a dread order upon the cosmos, meditating in the vast oceans of emptiness where once there were stars.
Dark Star Kha'Zix: The hunger of the abyss, Kha'Zix is an alien horror whose ceaseless appetite feeds the Dark Star. Appearing before planets like a titanic locust, it devours all it encounters—the power of a hundred thousand stars fueling its evolution into an ever-greater threat.
Dark Star Malphite: The remnants of a once lush and enormous exo-planet, the Dark Star consumed and reformed the broken cluster of planetary debris into a twisted consciousness, ever pulling others into its orbit, and unleashing oblivion upon all who cross its path.
Prestige Dark Star Malphite: Gilded by the Dark Star's touch and empowered through its radiance, Malphite barrels across space, demolishing entire systems and consuming the broken remnants into his immense and twisted form.
Dark Star Shaco: Shaco was once a region of space known for raucous celebration, wiped clean by the Dark Star and reborn into the mocking visage of a jester. His twisted cackling reaches inhabited systems long before he does, provoking visions of destruction, and societal breakdowns that will soon feed his endless hunger.
Dark Star Varus: An interstellar titan containing multitudes within his eldritch mind, Varus serves the all-consuming Dark Star, a dread singularity born in the darkness of deep space. His arrival is a cataclysmic extinction event, erasing entire planetary systems as if they were never there.
Dark Star Xerath: As the Dark Star continued on its path across space, it passed through a vibrant system orbiting a supergiant star. Consuming all life and light as it passed , the Dark Star twisted the supergiant into a wrathful corruptant. Thus, Xerath was born—a dark being of malice and annihilation.
Dark Star Orianna: Born out of the remnants of a magnificently advanced system, Orianna serves the Dark Star with meticulous precision. She dances across galaxies in an endlessly horrifying performance, the only witness is the silent trail of destruction left in her wake.
Dark Star Thresh: A cosmic nightmare who worships the all-consuming Dark Star, Thresh vows to feed the whole of existence to his "god" until all matter, time, and thought are erased. His work will be complete when nothing remains, freeing him to finally leap into the singularity and become one with the end of the universe.
As has been made increasingly clear, the characters of Event Horizon are consistently depicted as having power across Tier 4 (various Dark Star characters are the remnants of planetary systems, Lulu makes stars, Ashe and Lux/Corrupted Lux both create constellations, Kha'Zix is fueled by a hundred thousand stars, etc) and possibly up to Tier 3 in one case (Karma being created from a galactic civilisation). Thresh initially appears as an outlier here, "Feeding all of existence to his god".
Also, here are some quotes from the champions to back this up even more.
"Stars culled of life, silent in the darkness"
"The cry of a dying star - nothing's sweeter"
"We shall suck the marrow from their stars"
Have you ever seen a thousand stars alight in a shared dawn? We have - just before we snuffed them out.
Every luminous star laid bear. Torn open, devoured
Join your precious stars in oblivion.
Suns, moons? We have devoured both."
The stars die as we approach.
Watch the stars blink out, one by one.
You get the gist. Quotes
Counter Arguments
But Monarch, you say. What about all the quotes like Thresh's "I am the herald of reality's end", and "I've destroyed realities" and "Even the universe will grind to a halt", and "become one with the end of the universe" and Ezreal's "No one devours all of existence on my watch" and Rhaast's "It turns out the scythe was evil and wants to annihilate all reality" It would be remiss of me to not address these quotes. After all, it appears fairly obvious that the Dark Stars can indeed destroy the universe. However, there's something important to note. None of these feats are given a timeframe. Huh. So in other words... this could be happening over time. Let's see what we can find. Have a look at these quotes from the Dark Star lore:
"As the Dark Star continued on its path across space" (note that the use of singular and "the Dark Star" rather than "a Dark Star" implies this refers to the true "Dark Star", Thresh's god, rather than any individual member of the Dark Star Champions)
"Malphite barrels across space...unleashing oblivion upon all who cross its path"
"His (Shaco's) twisted cackling reaches inhabited systems long before he does"
"Cho'Gath is driven to feed on any celestial body that crosses his path"
Appearing before planets like a titanic locust, it devours all it encounters
"She dances across galaxies in an endlessly horrifying performance"
"His arrival is a cataclysmic extinction event"
"Thresh vows to feed the whole of existence to his "god" until all matter, time, and thought are erased. His work will be complete when nothing remains"
"The galaxy will suffocate in darkness" - it will suffocate in darkness, implying this is something that is going to happen eventually, not immediately.
What do all of these quotes from the lore have in common? They all depict the Dark Star and its servants as moving across the universe through space, destroying solar systems and stars one by one, eventually causing the end of the universe once the Dark Star has consumed everything in it. In Thresh's lore it even states he is doing this "until" all matter, time and thought are erased, and only when nothing remains will he be done. Continuing his work "until" means that he is doing this over time. He isn't wiping out the whole of existence at once, he is working his way through it.
Conclusion
Conclusion? The Dark Star and its servants are not each capable of destroying all of existence on one single blow. The "devour all of existence" statement Ezreal makes, and the "destroyed realities before" of Thresh do not refer to instant events, they refer to how the Dark Star and its servants are steadily moving across the universe, devouring everything that exists in it one by one, and feeding it to the Dark Star. Eventually, the entire universe would be erased, consumed by the living black hole singularity that is the Dark Star god, reducing the entire universe, matter, time (inspired by the idea that black holes consume space-time as they grow) and thought (because everything is erased and can't think), to nothing. They have done this to previous universes before, and now they are trying to do it to the Cosmic's universe, and then they will move on to the next, eventually devouring "all of existence".
So either we take this nice logical explanation that matches up neatly with the lore of these characters, or we ignore it in favour of pretending that all the "destroy all of existence" stuff happens instantly and that everything about the dark stars travelling through the universe eating star systems one by one is just them taking their time for no reason.
I mean, if nothing else, Thresh literally wants to be one with the end of the universe, to embrace oblivion. You'd think that if he could just wipe out of all of existence with a single attack from his Dark Matter Scythe, he'd ... you know... do it. Instead of ******* around eating planets and stars one by one. But he doesn't. Because as has been made pretty damn clear... he can't.
Changes
AP and Durability
Dark Stars and Cosmics should be downgraded to
Update: I have found a statement of Dark Lux destroying a galaxy with a thought. I have also found two statements from Dark Star Jhin that he finds destroying and killing galaxies to be "derivative" and "pedestrian". Though this could refer simply to his artistic taste wanting him to do more than just destroy, or destroy in a special fancy way or something, these are enough to remove the "possibly" from the "Galaxy level" rating.
Speed
All the links get redirected, so there is currently no evidence for any of it. Either someone finds the evidence and presents it here or they all just become
Update: Apparently such a speed feat would be MFTL+ instead
