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LOL Dark Star / Cosmic Court Downgrade

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WeeklyBattles said:
Nothing has been done over time, hell Thresh has a statement that a casual attack can bust a universe
Click to expand...
I went through all his Dark Star quotes you know. He doesn't have any statements like that there. And as I said in my post, the Dark Matter Scythe quote is not even close to that sort of statement. So you're going to need to present this quote.
 
yeah, some scans were in the boards, which got nuked. we are working on updating the blogs with new stuff, but we have 2 or 3 revisions besides these 2 for the verse.
 
Monarch ven if you want to downplay the hell out of stuff like the Void to being solely infinite in size its a High 3-A feat as it was done instantly
 
Weekly, I will be blunt.

Don't bother posting if you aren't posting with evidence. Go find it and come back when you actually have the scans and quotes. I can wait. I'll give you a week, I've got other things to do that this, I can easily wait that long.
 
just bringing this up, from Dark Star Thresh.

"We have looked into the Void, and consumed it."

this was one of the og justification, from when the Void was a timeless universe at most/pre retcon/pre updates
 
Saw that quote, addressed it, nothing says it was done instantly, context of how they consume other universes star system by star system indicates otherwise.

Also, massive outlier compared to their other feats
 
Already did in the initial post. Their method is to consume stars and galaxies over time. They do this bit by bit as they travel across the universe, they do not do it instantly. No reason to assume this would be different elsewhere.
 
Again, proof that its over time? Jhin has statements of wiping out all of creation instantly as well as statements that destroying a galaxy is a trivial feat
 
Update: I have looked through all of dark star Jhin's quotes.

While there was nothing in there about him wiping out all of creation instantly, he does describe destroying/killing galaxies as "derivative" and "pedestrian".

"Destroying galaxies is a pedestrian interpretation, I paint upon the canvas of eternity."

"Killing galaxies Zed? How plainly derivative, allow me to make you part of something greater."

Although his wording implies that it's less a matter of power and more a matter of how "artistic" the act is (remember that Jhin is obsessed with art), they still imply that he himself is capable of doing so. As such, I am fine with him being 3-C.
 
>nothing in there about him wiping out all of creation instantly

"Why erase everything at once, when it can be savored."

"Just a snap of the wrist and everything's... gone."

You sure about that?
 
Ah yes. Let's just immediately assume that when the word "everything" is used with no further explanation, it means all of time space reality and creation.

That's not going to win you a longjump award in logic jump, not at all.

Let me correct myself. Nothing is in there that anyone not trying to buff up a verse in any way possible would consider to mean him wiping out all of creation instantly .
 
Given the context of that plus everything else yes, it is safe to assume it means all of time, space, reality, and creation
 
Instead of just a galaxy or star system given all the other context of them wiping out star systems and planets. Right, sure.

Also this seems like a good point to note that the entire goal of the dark stars is to destroy everything and become one with the oblivion at the end.

If they could all do this with a snap of their wrist, why haven't they?
 
>If they could all do this with a snap of their wrist, why haven't they?

They have. Its already been stated that they have.
 
Except... they haven't.

Despite the event horizon universe being an alternate timeline, all the other alternate timelines that skins are from, as well as the main timeline, as well as the void, still exist.

So obviously, the Dark Stars have not wiped out "all of existence" already.

And also, the fact that the dark stars feel the need to travel through space destroying solar systems also indicates that they have not done so. Why would they bother doing what their lore explicitly states they do if they could just click their fingers and be done with it?
 
Except they have

Ive already explained this, LoL has an infinite number of 2-A multiverses

The dark stars have multiple feats of infinite and immeasurable speed sooooo

Hell Lux has a statement of being able to destroy multiple galaxies with a thought
 
What does speed have to do with anything? They still need to travel. They still don't do it all at once.

Also, Shaco's lore explicitly states that the planets he is approaching hear him coming and have time for their society to start breaking down in fear. That couldn't happen if he has infinite or immeasurable speed, he'd just be there before they ever had that time.

Speaking of their speed justifications, wasn't there an entire thread on how moving in a timeless void does not equal infinite speed unless the author actually notes that is what is required?
 
Not really, hell 95% of the Dark Stars and Cosmic Court have portal creation or teleportation, and theyve existed since before time was a thing.

You do realize that Shaco's entire character is about manipulating people psychologically and driving them insane before killing them right? Thats like saying Karma has below average human speed because 99% of the time she just lets herself float in place.

They crossed an infinite distance in finite time. They have infinite speed.
 
Given that Jhin has two statements of being able to destroy universes and one statement of being able to destroy time, Thresh has statements of being able to destroy universes, time, and creation, Jarvan has a statement of being able to destroy all of reality, Rhaast has statements of being able to destroy the universe as well as being of a higher spatial dimension, Kayn with Rhaast's power has a statement of being able to destroy the universe, Kassadin has a Low 2-C durability feat, and Ezreal states that the Cosmics have created universes before and that the Dark Stars can destroy those universes.......
 
Oh, and the LoL dev team puts the Dark Stars above Dawnbringer Riven and Nightbringer Yasuo, who are Low 2-C, in power
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Except they have
Ive already explained this, LoL has an infinite number of 2-A multiverses
Click to expand...
You do realise that the fact that other multiverses are still around disproves them destroying "all of existence" right?

You seem to be arguing that "all of existence" means they have destroyed an infinite multiverse, yet that very evidently is not all of existence, by virtue of the fact that other multiverses are out there. And if other multiverses are out there, destroying "all of existence" would mean destroying all those multiverse as well - yet they are still there, so evidently the Dark Stars have not destroyed "all of existence".

In other words, you have placed an arbitrary limit on "all of existence" that is demonstratably incorrect. And the correct meaning for "all of existence" is evidently not what the Dark Stars are destroying.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Given that Jhin has two statements of being able to destroy universes and one statement of being able to destroy time, Thresh has statements of being able to destroy universes, time, and creation, Jarvan has a statement of being able to destroy all of reality, Rhaast has statements of being able to destroy the universe as well as being of a higher spatial dimension, Kayn with Rhaast's power has a statement of being able to destroy the universe, Kassadin has a Low 2-C durability feat, and Ezreal states that the Cosmics have created universes before and that the Dark Stars can destroy those universes.......
Click to expand...
And yet you have posted none of these quotes except the ones from Jhin which require an insane amount of jumps in logic to make "everything" mean "the entire multiverse".

And if all these quotes require similar jumps in logic to mean what you are saying they mean, then really, you have no statements at all
 
Jhin Quotes

"Why erase everything at once, when it can be savored." (Jhin can destroy all of creation but chooses not to)

"The universe will end, but I will make it wondrous."

"Destroying galaxies is a pedestrian interpretation, I paint upon the canvas of eternity."

"Every universe, every Xayah, a spark... destined only to fade." (Jhin has destoyed universes and encountered numerous Xayahs)

"Killing galaxies Zed? How plainly derivative, allow me to make you part of something greater."

"Just a snap of the wrist and everything's... gone."

Jarvan's Lore

"A mortal emperor unbound by the destruction of his world, Jarvan's essence has since been reforged by the ageless energies of deep space. His humanity and his people now lost forever, he stands ready to welcome the Dark Star incursion, in the final subjugation of all existence."

Dark Star Rhaast is higher-dimensional

There was no easy way for Kayn to describe it. The quantum traces were bizarre. It was as though a piece of another reality, another spatial dimension altogether, had intersected briefly with this mountain on Ionan, negated it utterly, and left this void behind like an empty wound.

Dark Star Rhaast quotes

"The geometry of space bends, and breaks, and bleeds!"

"The timeless gulf of infinity. Completely at my mercy!"

Ezreal talking to the Cosmic Court

"Look. I know you aren't happy with how I destroyed those universes. But I swear, it was an accident!"

Ezreal talking to the Dark Stars

"Nobody devours all of existence on my watch! I live in there."

Cosmic Kassadin Lore

"Born before the kindling of the stars, Kassadin stands alone in space's vast void. He watches over all things, a sentinel awaiting the end of this universe… and the beginning of the next. "


There ya go
 
WeeklyBattles said:
You do realize that Shaco's entire character is about manipulating people psychologically and driving them insane before killing them right?
Click to expand...
That's OG Shaco. Not Dark Star Shaco.
 
Don't know much about LoL but I will say that this logic of "they have travel time therefore they can't be X speed tier" is a bit asinine. 95% of all Infinite and Immeasurable characters have travelled somewhere over time at some point yet that shouldn't be taken as reason to downgrade them.

And this thing about ignoring Tier 2 statements. I'm pretty sure destroying all of creation is more likely to mean a universe or multiverse than it is to mean something like a galaxy. You can't just sleep on a statement like that since it still gives us an idea of a being's power.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Jhin Quotes"Why erase everything at once, when it can be savored." (Jhin can destroy all of creation but chooses not to)
Click to expand...
Everything doesn't automatically mean all of existence. Could mean everything in the regions of space and galaxies his lore states that he scours.

"The universe will end, but I will make it wondrous."

Doesn't mean he's the one ending the universe all his own. He's doing it with the rest of the dark stars, slowly consuming everything and feeding it to the dark star until there is nothing left but the singularity.

"Destroying galaxies is a pedestrian interpretation, I paint upon the canvas of eternity."

Already posted this. Cool, 3-C feat. Painting on the canvas of eternity is Jhin's fancy words and is vague and means nothing on its own.

"Every universe, every Xayah, a spark... destined only to fade." (Jhin has destoyed universes and encountered numerous Xayahs)

Yes, the dark stars have destroyed universes before. Nothing says they just click their fingers and the universe is gone. Their methods of destroying the universe in all their lore plainly demonstrate that this is not what they do.

"Killing galaxies Zed? How plainly derivative, allow me to make you part of something greater."

Same as above really. 3-C, nothing more

"Just a snap of the wrist and everything's... gone."

Already addressed. "Everything" doesn't mean all of existence without some serious leaps in logic.

Jarvan's Lore

"A mortal emperor unbound by the destruction of his world, Jarvan's essence has since been reforged by the ageless energies of deep space. His humanity and his people now lost forever, he stands ready to welcome the Dark Star incursion, in the final subjugation of all existence."

Yes, the subjugation of all existence that will happen when the Dark Stars consume all the universes... one by one... star system by star system.

Dark Star Rhaast is higher-dimensional

There was no easy way for Kayn to describe it. The quantum traces were bizarre. It was as though a piece of another reality, another spatial dimension altogether, had intersected briefly with this mountain on Ionan, negated it utterly, and left this void behind like an empty wound.

Being another spatial dimension no longer means the sort of qualitative infinite jump in power necessary for anything. In fact, it being explicitly another spatial dimension demonstrates that it is simply another axis of motion rather than some kind of infinitely higher being. Also please note that "higher" is never even used in that sentence, it states "another" spatial dimension, not a "higher" one.

Dark Star Rhaast quotes

"The geometry of space bends, and breaks, and bleeds!"

Some spatial hax, but no scale is given so it's not any form of AP feat.

"The timeless gulf of infinity. Completely at my mercy!"

Vague, poetic, boastful, completely non-indicative of anything.

Ezreal talking to the Cosmic Court

"Look. I know you aren't happy with how I destroyed those universes. But I swear, it was an accident!"

All his low 2-C feats are done via paradoxes and time travel messing with space-time. His direct AP is not on this level. Minimal context is given for his statements to the cosmic court. Overall, a meaningless statement here.

Ezreal talking to the Dark Stars

"Nobody devours all of existence on my watch! I live in there."

Already addressed this in several posts. No context is given, leaving us to assume only that they are devouring existence by their usual methods of "star system by star system" and "all of existence" is demonstratably incorrect seeing as the multiverses are still around.

Cosmic Kassadin Lore

"Born before the kindling of the stars, Kassadin stands alone in space's vast void. He watches over all things, a sentinel awaiting the end of this universe… and the beginning of the next. "

Already saw this lore when I went through all the Event Horizon lore. Didn't put in in my initial post. Want to know why? Because nothing in here is an AP feat. It shows Kassadin is old. It's not even a dura feat, nothing states that he's going to be suffering some kind of force due to the new universe being born, he's just a spectator.


There ya go

There I go indeed
 
Planck69 said:
And this thing about ignoring Tier 2 statements. I'm pretty sure destroying all of creation is more likely to mean a universe or multiverse than it is to mean something like a galaxy. You can't just sleep on a statement like that since it still gives us an idea of a being's power.
Click to expand...
Except, as I have addressed multiple times "everything" and "all of existence" are shown very clearly to be the incorrect terminology for what is actually being referred to.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
... Yes because the living evil star system is the same character as the enchanted marionette.

No Weekly, they are not the same character, what are you even saying.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is correct, mentally they are the same character
 
Do you have any proof of this? Because I find it extremely difficult to believe that the living star system has the same mind as the puppet, especially seeing as they are two entirely different beings from different universes and - if you are correct - different multiverses.
 
Monarch youre treating everything i just gave you as its own individual feat out of context. When taken with everything together its very blatant.

What youre essentially doing is saying that if Beerus says he can destroy the universe at one point and then at another point taps his finger on a planet and blows it up and then at another point actually does destroy the universe that means that Beerus is only planet level and that him claiming to be able to destroy the universe is just boastful nonsense while his feat of destroying the universe is an outlier.
 
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