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Again, we know literally nothing about the power of the GoDs who aren't Beerus, and they clearly aren't comparable to each other, otherwise, Toppo as GoD would scale to Beerus.
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Limited space-time manipulation for DBS god tiers
- Thread starter Paradisum
- Start date
- Status
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Gotta love the false equivalence of powerscaling to giving abilities.
Let's also give Beerus almost every single ability in Dragon Ball, as that's just ki. Doesn't matter if he never demonstrated it. It's all ki.
Let's also give Beerus almost every single ability in Dragon Ball, as that's just ki. Doesn't matter if he never demonstrated it. It's all ki.
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He would be at least High 3-A. Also theres nothing special about Gotenks that would make it exclusive to him.
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Those are not false equivalence, they are exactly the same as what you are claiming, not my fault if you don't like where your own logic goes.The real cal howard said:
That's litteraly what we gave to everyone about every ki ability, because everyone use it, so yeah, let's do that because that's what's already on his profile anyway, Beerus has every single ki related ability in DB already, like everyone else, why act like he doesn't ? we also gave 'flying' to everyone in the TOP despite none of them showing it because it was a goddamn rule you couldn't use ki flying.
'Let's give the sun all the same cooking capacity as an oven, as that's just heat, doesn't matter if the sun never cooked anything, it's all heat', that's basicaly what you are trying to descredite without making any point as to why it wouldn't actualy work.
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Pretty sure we don't give Vegeta the ability to move in hits time hax because Goku could
Stop this wank
Stop this wank
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This isn't wank. Please don't start this if we didn't start anything.
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Show me a single profile not from Dragon Ball that follows you logic of "being stronger gives you more powers" that doesn't fall under the stipulations I gave before. You can't. DB is special because it's DB.
Oh shoot, really? We do? Beerus has the Kamehameha on his profile? No? Then he has the Kienzan? Genki Dama? Kaio Ken? Makankosappo? Masenko? Kikoho? Dodonpa? Death Beam? Shunkan Ido?
Heck, idk why we give em all flying without demonstration when one of the characters are confirmed to be incapable of flying with or without GP's restriction.
Oh shoot, really? We do? Beerus has the Kamehameha on his profile? No? Then he has the Kienzan? Genki Dama? Kaio Ken? Makankosappo? Masenko? Kikoho? Dodonpa? Death Beam? Shunkan Ido?
Heck, idk why we give em all flying without demonstration when one of the characters are confirmed to be incapable of flying with or without GP's restriction.
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It is wank. Calling a spade as a spade. It's not a matter if they can theoretically do it. No shit they can theoretically do it. What matters is them actually doing it.GojiBoyForever said:
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It is an ability that relates solely from how strong they are. Iirc Buu literally did the ability by accident by yelling.
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There is a pretty clear difference between techniques and say yelling.
While I won't speak for space-time manip, portal creation has been shown repeatedly to occur without gotenks or buu involved by just massive bursts of chi.
Also Buu literally did it by just yelling, that's pretty explicitly through power.
While I won't speak for space-time manip, portal creation has been shown repeatedly to occur without gotenks or buu involved by just massive bursts of chi.
Also Buu literally did it by just yelling, that's pretty explicitly through power.
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Yes, i can, tons of profile have 'X ability because X did it and this character has all their power but better'.The real cal howard said:
Also yes, different vers have different rules, get over it, that was always something accepted here.
If he wants to, it's under ki manipulation, litteraly none of those ability are outside the range of what's on Beerus's profile
IT isn't ki based as far as we know.
Roshi isn't incapable, he is unwilling because the Crane hermit would never let it go if he start using his technique, that's litteraly said.
'It is wank !!!!' say the downplayer who can't actualy make any argument as to why it isn't accurate to the source material (INB4 you start whinning about being called a downplayer despite yourself trying to justify it with 'muh spade'.)
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Aight then. Let's give Beerus Monster Carrot's ability. It's just touching after all. It's not a technique.SomebodyData said:
My_area
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Haxes dont work like that in this site
Haxes are given to only who has performed it not because they are stronger than the one who did the hax,hax is still hax and only AP works like that not haxes,We dont give stronger than Jiren characters resistence to time manipulation,we dont give Zeno resistence to all abilities in DB,we dont give resistence to existence erasure to anyone who is stronger than Goku and Vegeta and before anyone calls me the downplayer I support the DB logic of being stronger means resistence to hax but this site doesn't work like that and haxes wouldn't be treated differently because "Stronger DB character can resist weaker haxs or can replicate it"
So hopefully its clear
Haxes are given to only who has performed it not because they are stronger than the one who did the hax,hax is still hax and only AP works like that not haxes,We dont give stronger than Jiren characters resistence to time manipulation,we dont give Zeno resistence to all abilities in DB,we dont give resistence to existence erasure to anyone who is stronger than Goku and Vegeta and before anyone calls me the downplayer I support the DB logic of being stronger means resistence to hax but this site doesn't work like that and haxes wouldn't be treated differently because "Stronger DB character can resist weaker haxs or can replicate it"
So hopefully its clear
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People are kinda in denial tbh, If a verse explicitly shows that X resistance or ability is done via mere AP then it should scale to similar or stronger characters. It's that simple. The no scaling abilities is kinda stupid since this is about the same as AP power scaling, Jiren and Broly ain't getting destroyed by Toppo or Beerus hakai, Neither are Current Vegeta and Broly falling to Hit's Time hax. that rule is really stupid.
Though Hit's Time Hax may be just a weakness for the technique imo, maybe that it can be overpowered by either AP and/or Skill.
Btw characters who scale above SSJ Gogeta/Broly are UI/MUI Goku, Jiren (both keys), GoDs and Angels. That would be it.
Though Hit's Time Hax may be just a weakness for the technique imo, maybe that it can be overpowered by either AP and/or Skill.
Btw characters who scale above SSJ Gogeta/Broly are UI/MUI Goku, Jiren (both keys), GoDs and Angels. That would be it.
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@Cal Okay, even you know its a technique / special ability, don't act this way. If you want to have an actual debate, don't be like that, especially as an admin.
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This is annoying tho. This ability was supposed to be removed years ago but it hasn't. This leads people to believe that the ability was agreed upon even tho it's not supposed to be there.
This is really staff fault tbh. No offense but this ability was supposed to be removed and regular users can't really handle that with a verse like DB that causes controversy
This is really staff fault tbh. No offense but this ability was supposed to be removed and regular users can't really handle that with a verse like DB that causes controversy
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It was gonna be removed but then a thread was made debunking the removal if I remember correctly. @Astral
Lets go over everyone who has been shown to have portal creation via ap.
- Gotenks
- Buu
- SSJB Son Goku
- Base Vegeta
- Anilaza
- Gogeta
- Broly
I could see the issue with space / time manip since only 2 characters, but without any contradictions, it seems rather obvious that characters have portal creation via ki should scale to others.
Lets go over everyone who has been shown to have portal creation via ap.
- Gotenks
- Buu
- SSJB Son Goku
- Base Vegeta
- Anilaza
- Gogeta
- Broly
I could see the issue with space / time manip since only 2 characters, but without any contradictions, it seems rather obvious that characters have portal creation via ki should scale to others.
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The Vice Shout was done through AP, not some kind of ability. To argue that a superior character couldn't pull it off is ridiculous.
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If it's clearly portrayed as an hax doable by higher AP it should be treated as such, I don't see any problem with that.
And bringing up Beerus not being able to use Buu's techniques such as Magic, Monster Carrot Transmutation, etc. Is a false equivalency, they aren't even Ki related or portrayed to be able to replicated via AP. Else we would be seeing Goku using Buu's Techniques despite being way different from him.
On the other hand Vice Shout, ST manip and most of the resistances in DB are AP/Skill Based. It's obvious...
An example would be SSJ2 Gohan resisting Bojack's minions paralysis, prior to SSJ2 he wasn't able to. I think SSJ Goku did also resist Frieza's paralysis. Jiren resisting Time Cage via pure brute force, Vegeta punching through Toppo's Hakai... Unless you think FPSSJ Broly can get affected at all by Toppo's Hakai, Hit's Time Cage and Freeza/Bido Paralysis techniques lol.
And bringing up Beerus not being able to use Buu's techniques such as Magic, Monster Carrot Transmutation, etc. Is a false equivalency, they aren't even Ki related or portrayed to be able to replicated via AP. Else we would be seeing Goku using Buu's Techniques despite being way different from him.
On the other hand Vice Shout, ST manip and most of the resistances in DB are AP/Skill Based. It's obvious...
An example would be SSJ2 Gohan resisting Bojack's minions paralysis, prior to SSJ2 he wasn't able to. I think SSJ Goku did also resist Frieza's paralysis. Jiren resisting Time Cage via pure brute force, Vegeta punching through Toppo's Hakai... Unless you think FPSSJ Broly can get affected at all by Toppo's Hakai, Hit's Time Cage and Freeza/Bido Paralysis techniques lol.
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When did base Vegeta and Goku do that? Alinaza was clearly a different case as he was effing them all over with his ability. If they could replicate it, they would've.
Seriously, with your logic I could extrapolate countless things. Everyone stronger than Superboy Prime can retcon punch, because it's a simple punch. Slaking can use Sing because the weaker Jigglypuff can, as it's just singing. All characters comparable to Sonic in speed can manipulate spacetime through sheer speed, as it's said to be through sheer speed.
Seriously, with your logic I could extrapolate countless things. Everyone stronger than Superboy Prime can retcon punch, because it's a simple punch. Slaking can use Sing because the weaker Jigglypuff can, as it's just singing. All characters comparable to Sonic in speed can manipulate spacetime through sheer speed, as it's said to be through sheer speed.
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Base Vegeta got out of the Time Chamber in Super by going overboard and in the processing damaging the hideout during the Goku Black saga.
Goku got inside Hit's pocket dimension in their rematch.
Alinaza was far stronger than the five individually, hence why they all had to attack him?
That's why I'm pointing out this always happens via AP in DB. With Prime it hasn't been replicated. Sing is a technique, there is an difference between a technique with sleep manipulation as an effect and just yelling but your ki ripping open a portal. Unless you're implying me shouting irl is a 'technique'. Not sure about Sonic, mostly because the lack of context.
Goku got inside Hit's pocket dimension in their rematch.
Alinaza was far stronger than the five individually, hence why they all had to attack him?
That's why I'm pointing out this always happens via AP in DB. With Prime it hasn't been replicated. Sing is a technique, there is an difference between a technique with sleep manipulation as an effect and just yelling but your ki ripping open a portal. Unless you're implying me shouting irl is a 'technique'. Not sure about Sonic, mostly because the lack of context.
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And none of the examples you listed were the Vice Shout. Just because they fall under the same ability doesn't give them the same application. Trick Room and Spatial Rend are both spatial manipulation, but they are very different powers.
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This has been beaten to death and rejected every single time for the same haxes.
Can't we create a discussion rule to forbid these threads from existing? People is very tired of dealing with the same arguments every week.
Can't we create a discussion rule to forbid these threads from existing? People is very tired of dealing with the same arguments every week.
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That's because Vice Shout doesn't exist in canon.
That seems to be a false analogy. It'd be like calling Blastoise's Hydro Pump and a random other Pokemon's Hydro Pump different, because one comes out of Blastoise's cannon and the other comes from elsewhere. The mechanics / technique is the same, the method is different. In the case of DB, its actually consistently shown with the large gathering of ki can cause holes in the space they're in.
@Calaca for adding space time or for removing portal creation?
That seems to be a false analogy. It'd be like calling Blastoise's Hydro Pump and a random other Pokemon's Hydro Pump different, because one comes out of Blastoise's cannon and the other comes from elsewhere. The mechanics / technique is the same, the method is different. In the case of DB, its actually consistently shown with the large gathering of ki can cause holes in the space they're in.
@Calaca for adding space time or for removing portal creation?
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... Amazing.SomebodyData said:
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@Ion ah I'm sorry if it does, I've only read the manga version of DB's buu arc. If you can point to where it is stated, hell, even just the name, then go ahead, I'll stop debating.
Though then again, SSJB doing it by just charging up his chi is basically confirmation enough.
Though then again, SSJB doing it by just charging up his chi is basically confirmation enough.
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It isn't named at all on the manga (I think it was video games and a databook that gave it the name), Vice Shout in the manga is what we use on our profiles btw.
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The name come from the daizenshuu and the video games (mostly video games) but i'm pretty sure we don't use it most of the time since the SSJ multiplier is not accepted.SomebodyData said:
I don't see what that change anyway since all the daizenshuu say about it is that Buu screamed really hard in the ROSAT and was then copied by Gotenks.
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@Ion so it doesn't exist in canon.
...Amazing.
@Dragomer I see, I see.
So even if Vice Shout exists, the same source said its just shouting really loud.
...Amazing.
@Dragomer I see, I see.
So even if Vice Shout exists, the same source said its just shouting really loud.
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I'm talking about the hax/resistance/AP discussion.
Vice Shout isn't named, but we see that Gotenks can open a portal in SSJ3 which is > Super Buu, while Piccolo couldn't. This is the only instance where hax is directly scaled through power level that I'm aware of.
Vice Shout isn't named, but we see that Gotenks can open a portal in SSJ3 which is > Super Buu, while Piccolo couldn't. This is the only instance where hax is directly scaled through power level that I'm aware of.
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This^
I also remember only a thread to to add vice shout your other profiles not that it was re accepted.
I also remember only a thread to to add vice shout your other profiles not that it was re accepted.
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@Calaca
I don't mind banning that discussion at this point.
Yeah, if I remember correctly, SSJ Gotenks couldn't do it because he wasn't strong enough rather than lacking the 'technique'.
I don't mind banning that discussion at this point.
Yeah, if I remember correctly, SSJ Gotenks couldn't do it because he wasn't strong enough rather than lacking the 'technique'.
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Sorry for my English (It's not my language). In fact, I am new.
It's not far fetched that Broly and Gogeta can literally break space.
At a stroke, Jiren did it when Hit had accumulated time. (Min 1:18).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIviUozf2kc
And Vegeta could block with his arm Black's scythe, which cuts space-time.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...667117812732526593/Captura_de_pantalla_49.png
And Goku also did it, when he fought Hit on earth.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...667119012584488980/Captura_de_pantalla_50.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...667119016719941632/Captura_de_pantalla_51.png
It's not far fetched that Broly and Gogeta can literally break space.
At a stroke, Jiren did it when Hit had accumulated time. (Min 1:18).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIviUozf2kc
And Vegeta could block with his arm Black's scythe, which cuts space-time.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...667117812732526593/Captura_de_pantalla_49.png
And Goku also did it, when he fought Hit on earth.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...667119012584488980/Captura_de_pantalla_50.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...667119016719941632/Captura_de_pantalla_51.png
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We're not saying it's farfetched at all, in fact, we accept they do, what we disagree is that people stronger than them should have the same ability.
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You just have to use logic, since these feats were done with mere power / ki. The same happened with Goku, Vegeta and Jiren.
Stefano4444
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I'm gonna be honest, if Gogeta and Broly's feat was done via raw strength, rather than via unique ability or special technique, and if they are comparable to Gods of Destruction, then the latters should be able to replicate the same feat, so they should get at Possible at minimum.
The same could be apply with Resistance feats to a degree (although it couldn't be applied to all cases, like with Android 16 which can resist Life Absorption due of be a robot), and it isn't like scaling Resistance wasn't done before (many Saint Seiya characters get their Resistance via scaling rather than feats).
The same could be apply with Resistance feats to a degree (although it couldn't be applied to all cases, like with Android 16 which can resist Life Absorption due of be a robot), and it isn't like scaling Resistance wasn't done before (many Saint Seiya characters get their Resistance via scaling rather than feats).
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