League of Legends Speed Scaling Problem

[WeeklyBattles]

@Assalt Seeing as the description of the ability refers to the ship as being off-shore that kinda implies its coming from a pretty decent distance away from the battlefield

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Weekly

Maybe yeah, but it should probably be noted that he needs the ship near him in a VS Battle to use that ability.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Not really? I've yet to see stuff like Shield of Durand or even Hero's Entrance have any appearance in the lore that are copies of the game abilities. Same goes for stuff like Fiora's Vitals or any of her abilities, along with Darius and Draven and so on. You can't really makr a solid case that all in-game abilities are perfectly represented in their lore when that is not close to the truth.

Feral Howl also gives damage reduction, which isn't present in the lore.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/A_Hero_Wakes

"He leapt high in the air and then came crashing down onto the mage, interrupting his vile incantation, and squashing the barbarian into the loam. The remaining invaders were routed, dropping their arms in terror and fleeing in all directions."

Hero's Entrance: Galio designates the target allied champion's location at the time of cast as his landing spot, channels for 1.25 seconds, and then dashes to them, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies on impact and knocking them up for 0.75 seconds.

Are you sure about that?

 

[RegisNex1232]

Let's see, no knock ups or magic damage dealt, which just goes back to my original point you want to ignore, which is literal translation of abilities isn't possible.

And given that this is why he has supposed flight, I'm now even more curious as to why he got it rather than super strong jumps.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

It's probabky a knock up since he hits the ground so hard. It's bound to make a shockwave that throws people away and into the air, kinda like how it blew the two dudes in his intro away.

Also I'd prefer we keep this as civil as possible and not threaten to report each other.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Feral Howl? This is just a truly terrifying howl that would make most people run away. However, it isn't some kind of supernatural fear-inducing sound that forces fear onto a character in the same way Nocturne does. A very brave character, like Poppy, would be unaffected from a lore perspective.

Realizes this means like half of Warwicks matches are probably invalid

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Gameplay portrayals of abilities > Lore portrayals of abilities

 

[RegisNex1232]

To stop this little derail here, abilities being taken literally in versus matches is problematic when not everything displayed in the game is also shown in story. That should be discussed in its own thread.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not being shown in story =/= nonexistent

You have to make some infinitely massive assumptions to try to argue otherwise

 

[RegisNex1232]

Again, making up nonsensical points and misunderstanding mine is not, and will never be, a good way to make your case. Especially when we never see stuff like Gangplank summoning Barrels out of nowhere and such.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Honestly I think it's a case by case basis. We just have to make sure we don't apply nonsensical ones like barrels out of nowhere or oranges that can cure any ailment.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So what if he didndt do it in the lore. LoL is first and foremost a video game and will always be primarily a video game. Ignoring the game's abilities is ignoring the game in its entirety

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If LoL had no lore no one would question this

 

[RegisNex1232]

Yes, which has little influence on the story beyond providing characters and fancy abilities. Taking gameplay at face value, when stories and bios don't really match up to it seems baffling, especially when there are certain game elements made solely for the game.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Those 'fancy abilities' take prescience over anything else.

Take a verse like Skylanders for example. There is extensive lore but 95% of the abilities are never showcased. This does not mean they dont have them.

What is baffling is that you are genuinely arguing that a video game character should automatically not have abilities from their video game just because they didnt use every single one of their abilities in their lore and in an identical manner to how theyre used in their game.

I dare you to go into ANY other video game verse and try to apply this logic. ANY verse.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Youre trying to take the 'video game' out of a video game and it makes no logical sense when in every other video game verse on this wiki, what happens in game takes precedence over what happens in lore

 

[RegisNex1232]

Not when we get the majority of the lore and such that you recently mined for feats from stories, lore-friendly cinematics, comics and everything but the game itself. When a lot of the story doesn't display 1 to 1 copies of the game abilities, it's not strange to take the story over the game, especially when there's no game mechanics and such in the story.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Right, which is why everyone is 2-B and has Infinite speed, and champions like Jayce or Renekton are way stronger than champs like Kayle or Zoe.

 

[Friendlysociopath]

While video game powers in effect are canon even in gameplay- that only lasts so long as higher canon doesn't contradict it.

Health bars being the obvious example. If a game allows soldiers to freely shoot and stab you in gameplay and it knocks off a little health but in a cutscene this same attack kills a character- obviously the in-game portrayal isn't accurate to the canonical abilities of the character.

In-game never takes precedance over lore if lore contradicts it. Lorewise if a character dies from being shot- they'll die from being shot regardless of how high your health bar is after being shot in-game.

Powers and attacks are trickier ground admittedly. Obviously there is a limit- it just has to be defined properly.

 

[Wokistan]

Youre trying to take the 'video game' out of a video game and it makes no logical sense when in every other video game verse on this wiki, what happens in game takes precedence over what happens in lore

Uh this is very much not how it works. Game Mechanics is a page for a reason, we've been doing Lore>gameplay for all the game verses I know of. Look at tier 4 dark souls, or just about everything with regards to Destiny. Gameplay is usable when its not contradictory or makes sense, but lore takes precedence.

 

[Wokistan]

If an ability just isn't ever elaborated on in lore then sure, use the game one. I don't need Destiny to explicitly spell out what each and every gun Saint-14 can use does, I can just consult what the guns do. However, if something is explained in lore, that absolutely takes precedence.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Getting back on track, since we're still waiting for the scaling chain that supposedly backs up everyone being Hypersonic and such.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Wok Theyre NOT explained in lore. Ever. Hence why gameplay takes priority in this case.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Right, which is why everyone is 2-B and has Infinite speed, and champions like Jayce or Renekton are way stronger than champs like Kayle or Zoe.

Yes, for the same reason everyone in street fighter is High 7-A scaling from akuma or everyone in mortal kombat is Low 6-B scaling from shao kahn

 

[RegisNex1232]

We see several depictions of some abilities, don't lie as blatantly as this.

And you're gonna have to specify if you're being sarcastic or serious because you really don't seem to make sense at all right now.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah, keyword being SOME. yet you continue to act as though every ability has been used in lore and is completely different from how it's used in game when this is the opposite of the truth.

I am never sarcastic

 

[RegisNex1232]

Oh boy, yet another example of not understanding what I mean. There is no need to treat gameplay as above lore when lore does depict some abilities and they differ from gameplay depictions. It's true that not all abilities have been shown, but that doesn't automatically mean gameplay is everything, especially considering what Wokistan said.

Clearly need some glasses and logical functions then.

 

[Wokistan]

Let's see about calming it down here both of you. If you two can't talk to one another like normal people instead of throwing jabs at one another with every message, there's gonna be an issue. If I have to give any more of these messages this thread is just getting closed because quite frankly the rest of the site shouldn't have to deal with your constant bickering.

 

[Wokistan]

If you're getting frustrated or something, just take a short break. Go for a walk. Text someone. Do some work. Lift some weights. Just take your mind off the site for a little while and allow yourself to relax. This site is supposed to be entertainment, not constant strife.

 

[RegisNex1232]

When Weekly stops distorting my arguments and actually manages to present his reasoning for universal scaling to the feats which have yet to be properly evaluated, then we might be able to progress a bit.

 

[Wokistan]

Messages like this are the exact problem. It's clear you're frustrated with Weekly here. It'd be far more constructive to the both of you to take a break and come back a little later. Incites less arguments, which leads to less issues, which leads to less risk of people making appearances in the RVT.

 

[SinsofMan]

I agree with Woki and tbh, I hate being that 'guy'. This needs to stop.

Regis, your obsessesion quite frankly of just saying "Weekly is distorting my arguments." is not fair.

People have agreed with myself and Weekly, yet he is the one who has contributed literally half this thread.

You contributed to other half.

Weekly isnt a saint, yeah I am his friend, but I think he can use this time to actually work on anything else.

But no, your passive aggressive behavior has continued to bring this up over and over again.

I am sorry man, I am your friend and even if League was downgraded to 9-B for all I care, I drawing a line in the sand here. Your constant 'but he isn't listening', and 'it is weekly, I don't trust him', are Red Herrings.

Cool it you two. I don't wanna leave this site again because of BS "b-but he is wrong cuz is a green name!"

My final thoughts on this and I apologize to sort of ranting to anyone ahead of this is I still agree with Weekly and most of the criticism's has been nitpicks and strawmen.

Either come up with a compromise or stop trying to argue into ad naseum.

I am directing that last one at both of you.

/rant over.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Let's see he repeatedly makes unsupported claims, provides unevaluated evidence as proof of Hypersonic speeds and goes off on tangents without arguing about the central point. This is hardly good debating, and I don't see why anyone should have to tolerate this in the CRT.

 

[Wokistan]

Nobody said weekly was behaving perfectly here either. My message was directed at both of you two. He just seems to have taken my advice and stepped back for a bit, and as such he's not being reprimanded for further problems because he hasn't commented to cause any.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

As what feats are left to discuss and scale people to?

As much as I love LoL being in a statistical purgatory I actually don't love it at all.

 

[Moritzva]

I have to agree with Weekly here. With such a large amount of feats from so many characters, I really can't say in good faith that they wouldn't, for the most part, be around that level of scaling. Although it would be best if, where possible, we state which champions they scale off directly instead of using Garen and Kled as the example for everyone.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Id like to take a look at what we haven't discussed and see how they apply. Several of those already don't work so I don't think being skeptical is a bad thing in this case.

 

[Moritzva]

Maybe it would be best to pay attention to new champs and see how they scale and to who rather than placing everyone always equal to exactly Kled and Garen? I'd like to believe all of them are of a similar speed, but would it hurt to be careful?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Well Kled himself doesn't have the Hypersonic feat, Skaarl does, who is superior in speed to Kled.