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League of Legends Speed Scaling Problem

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Skaarl shot off in the blink of Kled's eye. How is that scaling?

That's fine if Sion and Ziggs have hypersonic feats, which I don't think they do. Sion's R isn't normal fire; its the same as his Soul Furnace active. Idk what Ziggs has.
 
Reaction speed

Not talking about Sion's R im talking about Sion scaling to Kled and Skaarl

Ziggs dodged and intercepted Jinx's missiles
 
@Weekly

But Skaarl essentially blitzed Kled. He couldn't track her movement until she was already over the horizon; that's the opposite of reactions scaling.

Well even if he did that's not hypersonic. Rocket launchers usually don't break the sound barrier and I don't think Fishbones would be different.
 
For the most part League doesn't have much scaling in the way of characters. Riot has made it abundantly clear that lore-wise most of them have never met one another and they don't all exist in the same region or even timeframe. The world has become much more realistic and thus much less viable for video-game scaling.

The Lead Narrative Rioter firmly stated anything not in a Story or Bio wasn't canon. Meaning most of the cinematics aren't usable as well since many of them are showing non-canon things such as a battle in Summoner's Rift. The context of said comment (Dismissing a previous Rioter comment about another character that was taken by the fanbase as 'canon') also means Rioter comments in general aren't always valid Word of God.

Awaken appears to be a 'canon' cinematic as everyone is in their proper region fighting alongside their proper allies in plausibly canon events. Likewise the Legends Never Die cinematic is depicting the training various champions underwent but kept them apart. However something like A New Dawn or A Twist of Fate is showing events that never happened and so is not viable for scaling the canon characters.

In addition many champions have been reworked since long ago, meaning scaling that previously was viable sometimes isn't anymore. Malzahar and Kassadin's battle from the Journals of Justice for example is no longer canon, meaning Malzahar's new lore has no bearing on Kassadin unless/until Kassadin's lore puts him against Malzahar again.
 
Even if most champions have never met there is still more than enough scaling for the majority of the verse to scale to a hypersonic feat in some way shape or form

The only characters who suffer from isolation are the ones who have yet to get lore updates, like Malphite

The Lead Narrative Rioter also stated that everything on Universe is canon
 
Post him stating that along with the context of the comment please.

Also literally half the speed feats you listed aren't correct or are too vague to have the rating they do:

Galio's timeframe is unknown and we have no method of determining it. Not usable. Needs removed from all profiles- scaling or not. Also nobody in canon has reacted to it anyways nor can Galio (judging by gameplay after all) even react at these speeds since he cannot stop once moving.

Garen's sword doesn't work like that anymore and hasn't for years. Not usable. Needs removed from all profiles- scaling or not.

Shen's feat is describing moving between worlds, not physical speed. Not usable. Not scaled so no needed removal.

Nobody in canon has reacted to Skaarl AFAIK. Nor can they in the game since regardless of who you are- Skaarl gets away from you and whatever you threw at her.

There's not nearly enough viable proof to say that everyone scales. That's absolutely unfounded to start insisting people who have never met share physical stats and also ignores how a massive majority of the speed showings aren't any such thing.
 
Because not only did he firmly state only Story and Bios are canon, another Rioter additionally clearly stated anything related to Summoners or the Institute of War aren't canon to the fictional world of Runeterra.

That includes any cinematics showing Summoner's Rift (aka the Fields of Justice) and anything like a Nexus- which are exclusively related to Summoners and the Institute of War.

From the Dev Blog: Exploring Runeterra a comment from a Rioter

Good question!
No, Summoners, the Fields of Justice and the Institute are not canon within the fictional world of Runeterra. In-game, players are still referred to as summoners - but summoners won't be part of the story.

Carnival Knights

And from the blog itself:

Essentially, it means that the game and story aren't one-to-one copies of each other.

In the same way that we can go back and enjoy old books, shows, films, art, and comics that have been superseded by more recent interpretations of the same material, League's original lore remains a cherished part of its history.


In addition, absolutely not "everything" on Universe is canon, there is an alt-universe tab and in addition many characters have concept art that obviously wasn't used in their pages, plus there are links to explicitly 'game info' that is related to the game, not the lore. Featured Videos only points out videos that are related to the character. It is neither a Story nor Bio and many such cinematics feature obviously uncanon things such as the Summoner's Rift.
 
Actually Awaken isnt canon either. Sion wasnt part of the invasion of Ionia. And Riven isnt and has never fought in the noxus arena. Also if the cinematic is canon either Riven or Draven are now legit dead since iirc the fight in the arena are to death. Necrit has a really good video which explains why the cinematic isnt canon
 
@Friendly Gladly, gimme a few minutes to find it

Name a single feat i posted that is in any way shape or form vague

Sion canonically reacted to it

We havent used Garen's feat for years now so why you and regis feel the need to continually bring it up like we DO use it makes zero sense

Shen's feat isnt described as moving between worlds, its described as moving many miles away in the space between breaths

Wait until my list is done, almost everyone scales
 
Also we havent had summoner's rift be treated as canon for almost five years now, i genuinely have no idea why youre bringing it up here
 
I think Galio's ultimate pretty much is supersonic. It looks pretty plainly like a Mach cone, not just a blast of light.

That said no one has reacted to it.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Also we havent had summoner's rift be treated as canon for almost five years now, i genuinely have no idea why youre bringing it up here
Click to expand...
You have brought it up several times in past revisions as a way to scale characters, so it's not surprising why people will bring it up when you are involved.
 
Sion and Galio are stated to have fought hundreds of times, as backed by both characters, and Galio loves to lead with Hero's Entrance. It is virtually impossible for Sion to not have reacted to it at some point.
 
When the likes of Ashe, Sejuani and Illaoi were 6-B you used it as a way to support scaling. Don't mislead us about what was essentially my first LoL CRT.

So no proof? Good to know that standards for proof have slipped even further.
 
Where does it say that he and Sion fought a lot? If they have I'll actually support using it.

Eventually he'd need to use it and Sion should react to it. Either that or he just tanked it.
 
Since this has turned into more of a disucssion on canon and I'm not knowledgeable on LoL, I'll step out here. Someone inform me when this thread is over, though.

Apologies for not being able to help much.
 
@Regis They were 6-B via lore scaling to Lissandra what are you even talking about

Good to know you cant make a single comment without making an insult
 
Xalatath said:
Actually Awaken isnt canon either. Sion wasnt part of the invasion of Ionia. And Riven isnt and has never fought in the noxus arena. Also if the cinematic is canon either Riven or Draven are now legit dead since iirc the fight in the arena are to death. Necrit has a really good video which explains why the cinematic isnt cano
Click to expand...
I hadn't thought of that. Though I stated that before I took a proper look through Universe and saw they've plenty of non-canon content in there so "everything on Universe is canon" very clearly requires additional context.

@Weekly

Galio's feat is quite vague. There's no known timeframe for it to get speed from and to boot the calculated speed doesn't match anything else in the scene. "He can slow down" is literally no more valid than "He could've gone slower". Except when you don't know something for sure- you lowball.

Garen's feat is still on the profiles so for something that isn't used it still looks like it's being used.

Prove that for Shen. Prove beyond reasonable doubt the line in the middle of text describing him moving between worlds is related to physical movement and not moving between worlds. You can interpret it that way if you want but your interpretation does not take precedance over any other. Context does not favor yours.

Rammus' feat is also vague as it has no timeframe whatsoever and the sandstorm is actually outrunning Rammus since he emerges from it.

Rioters have somewhat openly admitted they do not know HOW Sion and Galio have fought hundreds of times, only that they have. That's how the, "Maybe Sion can tackle his leg?" comment came to be. Without further context this is useless to us and proves literally nothing.
 
Alright, guess I'll stick to calling you out for your hypocrisy and weak reasoning given for supporting universal scaling.

Once again using quotes. They weren't accepted for scaling Tryndamere to Aatrox, whyvwould they be accepted here to support Sion being Supersonic for somehow reacting to Galio?
 
@Friendly

Galio is clean over 20 meters tall. Even if he only moved a bit more than 10 body lengths he would break supersonic if he did it in a second. But he does it in less than a second.
 
Regarding canon, Universe and all the updated stories are canon. It is meant to collect all of the canon. However, not everything has been updated and we can easily ignore older stuff.

Awaken is canon set in the near future as Riot said so in a blog.

https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/2019/02/ask-riot-game-modes-metals/

"In the video Awaken, Camille's eye changes colors from yellow to blue—what is the meaning of this? Also, is the video canon?


Camille's changing eye color is an allusion to her in-game passive, where she gains a shield based on the damage type of the champion she's attacking. That shot in the cinematic is her realizing that Jhin has set a trap, and since it's Camille, her reaction is to first analyze the threat before jumping into action.

In general, our approach to representing a champion's abilities in cinematics is usually to start with, "What's the fantasy behind it?" The Champion team does an amazing job with expressing these characters through their abilities in game, and one of the most fun parts for us is finding ways to build on those fantasies by exploring ways for the characters to manifest those abilities in the world of Runeterra. Sometimes that means a one-to-one representation of the in-game abilities, but a lot of time it's about speaking to that fantasy while using it in a slightly different way that makes sense for the character and story we are telling.

In terms of it being canon—these are definitely scenes and events that take place in the world of Runeterra, in the present time. Have we reached those moments in those characters' arcs yet? No, but we've got lots of stories still to come this year, and next…

RAEZ, KNEECAPPHILLY & SCATHLOCKE"
 
So the functionality may be different but the outcome is basically the same for the most part. Let's take Poppy for example.

Her W is magic in-game but we don't know what it really is. Could just be her manually preventing jumps and slamming them back down. But I think it's safe to list the abilities since they should have a place in-lore in terms of expected results.
 
Yeah no im heavily against removing all abilities just because a few arent blatantly used in the lore in an identical manner to how theyre used in-game
 
Who said all abilities should be removed? And why is this being brought up in a speed thread? Seems to be besides the point, when we still have to evaluate the feats and properly scale them.
 
Once again, when both gameplay and lore are available, there is no need to take gameplay above lore, which is something even Wokistan agreed with. This is just refusing to read and understand my points.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
@Friendly
Galio is clean over 20 meters tall. Even if he only moved a bit more than 10 body lengths he would break supersonic if he did it in a second. But he does it in less than a second.
Click to expand...
Where? In-game sure. In the login screen that is neither gameplay nor lore? You have no timing for it. None. Zero. I acknowledge it could be supersonic.

I am however pointing out the calc insists he covered the entire distance from the moment 0:00 of the video and this has no basis in fact nor does the ground react as though a hypersonic 6-story giant hit it. It does however certainly act like something slower did. The calc blatantly makes a conclusion and then excuses are being made to fit the conclusion instead of looking at everything in the visual.
 
To make any real progress we need:

1) The accurate calculations and evaluations of all the unquantified feats.

2) A properly determined scaling that does not scale characters to each other if the lore shows that they haven't meaningfully kept up with each other.

Until these two conditions are met, this will just be an endless argument based on current info and earlier arguments.
 
I ballparked most of the unknown ones at around subsonic, but I am interested in calcing Xayah and Rakan's feat. A lot of those just can't be calced above assuming some random values.
 
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