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Lavos vs Yukari

Then unlike Suika, Yukari have sufficent haxes to counter nearly everything it have right now. Lavos also have no mean to physically attack her,IMO, when she could hide herself in safety. Vote for Yukari
 
Base Lavos does have a move where he copies the entire skillset/powers/abilities and stats of whatever he wants, tho... Hmmm. Plus he has the real deal type of Acausality where if you kill him or do whatever he just calls himself back from a different timeline. Heck, he's one of the very few Acausals that I have seen actually doing that.

I'm not kidding. He QUITE LITERALLY opens a time gate mid-battle and resurrects himself from another timeline. LOL

Also he does have crazy space and time-powers too like opening time gates, space-time BFRing to whatever era or timeline he wishes to throw you (displayed that during the events at te Mamoon Machine) and constantly switching to different eras midbattle. Just his presence seems to distort space-time going from the place where you fight him, too. Plus disabling defenses/voiding immunities as well as status effect inducement and some degree of durability negation via Evil Star which cuts your energy in half regardless (also, is it just me or people are only throwing Big Cannons at Yukari right now? I saw her against freaking Tiamat on another thread).

And arguably if BFR'd he could use his time powers to either A. Warp back or B. Summon himself back from another timeline to resume the match. Basically, Yukari is fighting an Ultra-Crack version of Sakuya as I see it.
 
Not voting anyone yet, but whoever wins, it won't be funny for either side. Not entirely sure how Yukari gets past Lavos Acausality, power mimicry and ress atm but not disregarding the possibility of her winning somehow entirely either.

Also on intelligence, the damn parasite is not outclassed either. He manipulated the evolution of every single life form on the planet across all of time and space to better suit his desires. And he most likely did so casually. While sleeping. So we're at least on even grounds regarding this.
 
Indeed you made, as long as you ignore Andhy.

@Andhy ...Sorry Andhy, but by now I have to admit that you ruined so many Touhou threads for me, it's not funny anymore. I can't have a healthy debate with someone when they constantly argue that one side can easily shut everything the other one has and win just "because they are so awesome and have counters for everything, gg", which is pretty much your reasoning.

I honestly am asking you this - I'm not mad, I'm more like sincerely asking you, as a fellow debater: Please do an effort to actually analyze who wins. This match is very even and either side could win, but saying it will be a cake walk for one side or another is problematic, to say the least. And you do that in nearly every Yuka thread I see you.
 
It's kinda hard to do that though when I know nothing about the opponent, plus I find it hard to get long sentence out.

Edit: Okay, first it's still used energy when jumping from time to time, and that's why it doesn't used it much right? Second, does the Chrono Trigger followed linear, or multiple timeline?
 
Well, you can always ask the OP when that happens. Or, since I'm here right now, me if you want.

But not right now, as I'm going offline atm (my first replies elaborate on a lot of stuff Lavos can do, tho). Will check on this later on.

You don't need to make huge replies, just don't say "Yes, character x can shut everything y can do" without anything to actually back that up. But anyways, off I go.
 
Andykhang said:
Edit: Okay, first it's still used energy when jumping from time to time, and that's why it doesn't used it much right? Second, does the Chrono Trigger followed linear, or multiple timeline?
Click to expand...
Lavos doesn't really seem to have any trouble messing with Time and Space. He actually multitasks by changing eras and warping time mid battle while fighting the party consisting of other three Large Planet characters.

Chrono Trigger universe has infinite timelines, IIRC, will check on that.

EDIT: Infinite Timelines.
 
Arguably, Lavos does come back even if destroyed like that. If he couldn't, there would be no Chrono Cross. He just took his sweet time combining with Schala and taking advantage of her powers to become the Dream Devourer THEN maturing until Time Devourer...

And he wrecked the CT party HARD in doing so, proving he made the right decision.

And in the DS version Magus explicitly states that that is the future where Lavos was destroyed, yet... Surprise, there he is and stronger than ever now combined with Schala.

Lavos is not stupid, he doesn't fight people head on if he's at a severe disadvantage - like when he first fell on earth, he didn't even bother to fight anyone on his weakest state, he went straight to the core of the planet to evolve. Same happened at the end of the game, why would he bother coming back to get wrecked again when he had helpless Schala right in front of him?

But that he was still existing and kicking in time is undeniable. He just planned his next move way better. Also Chrono Cross kinda proves that "all timelines would end at Lavos" or something.
 
Also Lavos should be the poster boy (?) for Acausality because his is one of the most broken I've ever seen. In fact, it is almost a plot point in itself.
 
At least 1-A Boundary Devourer. ovo

(I know there isn't such a thing as "at least 1-A" but the joke is more important.)
 
'Also Chrono Cross kinda proves that "all timelines would end at Lavos" or something.'

Makes you question if that he's just a planetary- oh wait that's a separate feat on a separate form now.

Also did a bit of research, he only mimicked the power of the allies bosses? Or is there somewhere else that's coming from? Now I wonder if a fight between this guy and Lester would be fun. Should be on the same Tier too.
 
Yup. By imitating the bosses the player fought before. Now this makes me ask, does he pull an Ouroboros from Bravely Default and even copies the player's form and abilities?

https://youtu.be/PYZ4PZDx4aI?t=344

Or is it just strictly his allies? Cause it makes me question the validity of it if he could just shapeshift into his allies if that's the case....
 
Aside from Queen Zeal, no one was Lavos ally (and even then, it was more like she was being used when trying to use Lavos herself). Magus for one, like Cal pointed out, dedicates his life and existence to trying to murder him and Lavos copies him anyways. Other than that, he was just a world killing parasite intent on furthering his own cycle of evolution. The moment he emerges is the moment he wrecks everyone because why not.

Also Lavos is said to "change his attack mode" to whatever floats his boat.
 
Ah that changes things then. Although it does make me wonder if he just absorbed the others after their death since time-space hijinks. Just speculating it though.
 
When he uses power mimicry it shows him looking at whatever point in space-time where his target was about to fight then he gets their entire skillset.

...Yeah, pretty broken.
 
Lavos will actually grow bodies if the power he was mimicking uses multiple body parts. Like for the dragon tank (a machine that couldn't possibly be his ally), since it used its head, body, and wheels to attack, Lavos created these...things in order to emulate it. And don't get me started on Zombor...
 
You do know the concept of offscreen stuff right? Things that have been done before the battle and etc. Either way I was't enforcing it, you did see the words wonder and speculating right?

Edit - Oh so he can shapeshift after all. Should probably add that in there? Or some sort of body transformation thing.
 
Magus was still alive, tho, since he also becomes a party member later on and Lavos copied him anyways. Also, I'm just providing clarification on how said power works. Not implying anything against your point or anything of the sort.
 
Well, at least he didn't look at infinite branching timeline to copies everything, since the game would be over then:). Also at time like this, having a Truth/Lie boundary would be so much easier to guide him into learning Self Destruct or something. Anyway, either she could used Mirror World to let him fight his mirror (which is possible if she could connect Gensokyo to this place, though that's a bad move...), or just run around in time to guide him into someplace he couldn't escape, or die doing do (that would only stopping one though... said, just how does these guy defeat him?)
 
Welll, more or less. He's Lavos. Not Dream Devourer or any higher. He can't naturally get to tier 2 without absorbing a magical girl. So while he can technically become tier 2, there's no way that he can in this match.
 
@Andhy >> Guiding Lavos into self-destructing

Who? The guy who manipulated all Life Forms across time whilst sleeping and has a degree of Mind Manipulation (Schala and arguably Queen Zeal) himself? Hardly. Also, never did that. Furthermore, killing Lavos is inconsequential seeing his resurrection and Acausality to boot. We've never seen Yukari calling copies of her opponents either and running around in time would be pretty much useless since Lavos can casually open time gates to whatever point in space-time he wants. Also, if he gets trapped somewhere he just summons himself via time-shenanigans.

You're once again jumping to the assumptions.
 
Also uh Andy, don't bother to use Mirror World right now. All it is right now is that it holds a potential for Multiversal Touhou (More nightmare fuel for you Cal :^ ) ) and just how far Yukari reaches with her boundaries and gaps. Not usable anywhere else.
 
...Though now that I think about it and with everything said and done, this is just like the match against Tiamat (no wonder I threw them against each other). Lavos damn near impossible to put down for real, best hope would be Inconclusive.
 
CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
All it is right now is that it holds a potential for Multiversal Touhou (More nightmare fuel for you Cal :^ ) )
Click to expand...
Actually I'd argue that Call would WANT multiversal Touhou just so he can start throwing stuff like SMT, Arceus, SS, Asriel Dreemur, Madoka and others at them. Seeing the cannons he has been throwing at Yukari lately would lead me to believe that. XD
 
You put Yukari against Reinhard, Othinus, and Lavos once. Oh. And that one time I actually did put her against Arceus. Funny enough, even Danmaku itself is countered by Rain of Destruction.

@Andy. About the cast defeating him. Other than the fact that it was 3 on 1 (and even then...), they don't. They stop the Day of Lavos. As Chrono Cross shows, Lavos was inconvenienced by Crono and co. And Schala made it even easier.
 
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