Kung Fu Panda - Po and Chi Revisions

[Antvasima]

It doesn't make any sense that it would require more power than the entire totality of the spirit world itself to create a tiny hole in the walls of it. If that would truly have been used, the entire reality would logically have been destroyed, so yes, I think that what was intended with the casual statement (that contained no further elaboration) simply referred to overcoming the strength of its borders, especially in combination with that Po and the Constellations are consistently portrayed as tier 8 otherwise.

 

[JJSliderman]

> Consistently portrayed as tier 8

-Po's chi was one sixth of the energy to create the Eternal Chord and sustain the universe.

-Black Tortoise casually stopping a lifewiping meteor

-The Wu-Xi Finger Hold parting the clouds with the after-shockwave.

You were saying?

Personally I just don't get the argument that it was only a small part of the Spirit World since it never implies that. Jindiao performing the feat was the first time it had ever been done with brute force, so clearly he must have been more powerful than the entire Spirit World. If all you needed to do was break a small portion of that power, there would be far more characters able to escape.

 

[Antvasima]

I do no recall watching an episode wherein Po sustained the universe yet.

The Black Tortoise feat was displayed in a differently drawn mythic flashback, and we do not know the actual scale of it for certain, but we still scale from it.

The Wu-Xi Finger Hold seems more like hax than raw power to me.

Anyway, the point is that they are regularly consistently threatened and challenged by tier 9 to 8 obstacles. Going from there to literally infinite power would be far too high out of the ordinary for them. It is no different from how we treat the much greater amount of tier 3 feats for 4-B Marvel and DC Comics characters, and those feats were considerably less ambiguous and out of scale than the one that you wish to use here.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, again, if he had truly overpowered the sum totality of the entire Spirit World with literally infinite power, it would all have crumbled down. The walls could still have been strong enough to keep the residents imprisoned without each tiny part being infinitely strong.

In addition, Kai and Po both escaped in the 3rd movie.

 

[JJSliderman]

Po didn't escape via brute force, he escaped via Oogway's staff. Kai didn't escape with brute force either, his method was entirely different from Jindiao's. Jindiao is the only one who has escaped with pure brute force, which is stated to require more power than the Spirit World itself. The World didn't have to crumble, Jindiao wasn't trying to destroy the Spirit World, he just wanted to escape from it.

Honestly tier 4 only DC and Marvel makes no sense given there's just as many tier 3 or 2 feats, but that's not really important.

In the episode, the Eternal Chord, it was established the chord sustains the existence of the universe and keeps it from falling into a formless mass of chaos. In the end, the Chord would have failed to restore the universe if Po hadn't contributed his chi energy to it, meaning he was partly responsible for the Chord's power.

And again, Chi introduces an entirely new power scale that isn't based on anything prior, so limiting its feats just based on the fact that Tier 8 WAS the norm is close-minded. The Finger Hold itself is hax, but it also releases chi shockwaves that aren't hax based and are based on Po's power.

 

[GyroNutz]

Yeah it's the chi shockwaves that were calculated, not the energy needed to send someone to the Spirit Realm. Wellspring Po's High 6-C feat should be legit.

I've contacted Dark649 and Weekly since they've been involved with KFP revisions before iirc

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it still seems like unreliable interpretation at worst and extreme outlier at best to me. My apologies.

 

[Antvasima]

You should also preferably contact more administrators.

 

[JJSliderman]

Of course you'd say that, what a big surprise.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I like the series and have watched almost all of it, but I am also very reluctant to allow likely very exaggerated and/or unreliable statistics.

 

[JJSliderman]

Unreliable statistics stated by extremely wise characters or literal gods. But yeah, very unreliable and exaggerated.

 

[GyroNutz]

You should also preferably contact more administrators.

Do you know any others who know about Kung Fu Panda? Ik Dargoo does, but his message wall says not to contact him for revisions.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Of course you'd say that, what a big surprise.

You accuse him of being biased and trying to downplay KFP when he gives his input and you attack him when he stays neutral.

And as much as I disagree with antvisma about things like how he wants to downgrade Marvel so badly and has tried this 200+ times or what counts as outliers for western verses and what counts as outliers for eastern verses. i have to agree with ant here, this is a mere statement, we had enough feats for Tier 6 KFP, but until we get more cosmic 5,4,3 feats. We can't put Po anything higher than a 6-A

 

[GyroNutz]

To clarify, the "breaking out of the spirit realm" was a single statement, the wellspring has been called the source of all light on more than one occasion, and endless also on more than one occasion.

 

[Lightbuster30]

The reasoning for having more power than the spirit world automatically meaning the spirit world gets destroyed if you break free is in complete violation of the concept of attack potency, which keeps this stuff from happening in the first place.

 

[Antvasima]

The full power of the entire realm being focused into an infinitely tiny part of its wall doesn't make any sense in any case, and we need considerably more support for such enormous upgrades, that completely contradict every single physical destructive feat in the series, than an offhanded statement without further clarification.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Tbh at least the Tier 4 feat of wukong creating a pocket dimension at least was a physical feat while the tier 3 feat was a statement

 

[Antvasima]

Do you know any others who know about Kung Fu Panda? Ik Dargoo does, but his message wall says not to contact him for revisions.

No. Sorry. You can try some random other ones though.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks for the support. I am used to being held as a general scapegoat for all kinds of different problems that people have with this wiki though. All I can do at the end of the day is work my butt off to try to help out.

 

[Antvasima]

Tbh at least the Tier 4 feat of wukong creating a pocket dimension at least was a physical feat while the tier 3 feat was a statement

That was likely an illusion though. His physical feats were fairly unimpressive.

 

[JJSliderman]

The tier 3 feat is a statement from a reliable source that is consistent with at least one other feat in the series. I'm willing to accept Tier 4, although I still personally believe it should be Tier 3 since nothing really contradicts it, especially when the Tier 6 feats of shattering the meteor and the cloud parting feat are super casual. Maybe I sounded mean, but I guess I'm just jaded because I don't really care for how Ant does things based on his own discretion, and because I don't understand why this is being considered an outlier.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

True, so let's keep Tier 6 for now and just keep far higher until we get more physical feats that imply tier 5 or above

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Also, does this mean Paws of Destiny Po should get the same powers as Legends of awesomeness po

 

[JJSliderman]

I don't agree, there's no reason Tier 4 shouldn't be accepted when powering the Eternal Chord, breaking out of the Spirit Realm, absorbing a source of energy described as limitless several times, that source of energy being the source of all light in the universe, and arguably Wukong's dimension creation feats are all much higher than the super casual tier 6 feats.

 

[Antvasima]

We have an explicit tier 6 feat, so I am fine with using that, despite that it was a diffusely defined flashback and that it contradicts that constantly displayed tier 9 to 8 scale of all the characters and situations that cause Po trouble, but an offhanded statement without further specifications, with implications that do not make any sense, and that would mean a literally infinitely greater scale than the usual situations? No, sorry, but that is not remotely acceptable, and it would also set a bad precedent for other verses.

 

[JJSliderman]

> Offhanded statement

This is a major plot point.

Idk why I have to keep explaining this but there is an entirely new scale of power here. You can't just write off all these things by saying "oh well, all the stuff before is much weaker" when this is essentially God magic introduced after the third movie that drastically increased the power of the characters.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not talking about before. I am talking about the Paws of Destiny series as a whole, and I maintain all of my previous objections.

Anyway, I am extremely overworked and distracted by many different tasks, and do not have the energy to keep repeating myself here on top of everything else. You should ask some other high-ranking staff members for input here, and if that does not work out, this thread should preferably be closed.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, closed because one person doesn't agree. That sounds fair and balanced.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Don't forget me.

To be honest, this point of KFP Po being High 3-A has been discussed so many times we should put it onto the discussion rules for verses page because this has been rejected so many times already

 

[Antvasima]

It is up to the staff to evaluate these types of threads, and to ensure that not any unreasonable upgrades are let through.

I would much prefer to get more input from other staff members, but am currently almost working myself to death taking care of many content revision threads at once, since the rest of them are busy with school IRL. As such, I also have to take care of my mental and physical health and eventually say enough is enough if a discussion will not ever lead anywhere.

However, as I said, I would much prefer further input from other staff members, so you should preferably try asking more of them first.

 

[JJSliderman]

"Has been rejected so many times already" It's been rejected twice. By the same person. For very shoddy reasoning.

 

[Antvasima]

No, it has been rejected because the evidence is very unreliable at worst and an extreme outlier at best. This is no different from our usual praxis with other verses, and it would set a very bad precedent if let through.

Also, please improve your attitude and stop being bitter because I am trying to do my job properly, despite that I like Kung Fu Panda myself.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yes, I'm being totally unreasonable. You're not at fault at alllllll.

No, you'd never do something like delete pages without telling the original creator, or ignoring evidence because of some arbitrary standard.

My mistake.

 

[Antvasima]

It is also part of my job to delete new pages that do not hold a sufficiently high quality, but I do not have limitless time available to argue about everything with everybody. I am already spending 12-14 hours a day ensuring that the wiki does not collapse under its own weight. Please stop taking me for granted/being ungrateful in that regard.

 

[JJSliderman]

> Ungrateful.

Oh, so I'm supposed to thank you for being an unreasonable person?

That's just fantastic, I'm so happy.

 

[Antvasima]

I am far from unreasonable in general, but I need to try to maintain certain standards of reliability for the wiki. Also, I have spent 20000 hours organising the growth of this wiki to 65 times its original popularity, and have generally managed to be helpful and polite doing so. So yes, having to deal with somebody with a few hundred edits, and who has never helped out much, being bitter and ungrateful for no good reason seems like a waste of my very limited available time and energy.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Sigh..... And I KNEW that this would turn toxic the moment I heard a CRT for AP would be made.

hey JJ, I get you disagree with Ant, but this is no place and no time for making harsh and mean attacks towards admins.

This has to be closed, and this needs to be put in the discussion rules about why Kfp shouldn't be in High 3-A

 

[Antvasima]

I am open for both closing the thread and adding a discussion rule, but I would much prefer some input from other staff first.

 

[JJSliderman]

I'm not bitter over nothing, I'm bitter that these 5 or 6 feats are being ignored for no reason, and I'm being treated as someone inferior despite the fact that I know just as much about this franchise as you do.

I'm bitter because every time I try to do something on here, it gets rejected because of the arbitrary standards in place for no reason.

I'm bitter because you stifle any chance of a debate because it all has to go by your standards.

I'm bitter because apparently I'm a waste of time to you because that's totally not demeaning.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Who should I contact about this??