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Kirby revisions: Everything coming full circle

I was going to put it as
  • Immortality ([...], up to type 4. His/her "comical" ability to revive when killed is both; consistent enough to always be present as secret trivia of the setting, and inconsistent in the sense that it might not be used during serious plots & backstories),
  • Self-Resurrection ([The power]),
  • Regeneration ([...], Low-Godly, likely Mid-Godly when comically reviving. Since they revive "somewhere else in the world", which is shown to be a different place from where they poof/blow up, his/her whole body reappears on its own rather than regrowing from leftover, minuscule parts of their destroyed body; Since statements originally targeted enemies that Kirby has killed or swallowed to revive, it includes ghost enemies that already don't have a physical bodies, and this trivia of the Kirby setting as a fantacy world should likely be shared evenly to all whom it applies to, without ghosts having a superior version of this)
 
@CloverDragon03 Kirby's "Class M with Mouthful Mode" should be removed;
  • As shown in Kirby's profile, Mouthful Modes are implied to be stronger than Copy Abilities.
  • A defeated Fecto Forgo aimed to grab Kirby with a tentacle, drag him to his body, and assimilate him, which while fast, Elfilin could at least try to "swim upwards" from it.
  • Fecto Elfilis could take crushing attacks from Hammer Kirby, which flattens lesser enemies.
 
Eficiente said:
@CloverDragon03 Kirby's "Class M with Mouthful Mode" should be removed;
  • As shown in Kirby's profile, Mouthful Modes are implied to be stronger than Copy Abilities.
  • A defeated Fecto Forgo aimed to grab Kirby with a tentacle, drag him to his body, and assimilate him, which while fast, Elfilin could at least try to "swim upwards" from it.
  • Fecto Elfilis could take crushing attacks from Hammer Kirby, which flattens lesser enemies.
Click to expand...
So what should it scale too?
 
Eficiente said:
@CloverDragon03 Kirby's "Class M with Mouthful Mode" should be removed;
  • As shown in Kirby's profile, Mouthful Modes are implied to be stronger than Copy Abilities.
  • A defeated Fecto Forgo aimed to grab Kirby with a tentacle, drag him to his body, and assimilate him, which while fast, Elfilin could at least try to "swim upwards" from it.
  • Fecto Elfilis could take crushing attacks from Hammer Kirby, which flattens lesser enemies.
Click to expand...
Stronger than copy abilities... Didn't one rip a tree out or something? And also let him take a huge beam?
Or is that feat restricted due to Kirby's size compared to those?
 
Eseseso said:
So what should it scale too?
Click to expand...
My comment already implies it. Not that much on Kirby needs to be known for it: Copy Abilities are Kirby doing all kinds of things, lifting included. Mouthful Modes are implied to be stronger than Copy Abilities. Therefore, I was saying that they have Kirby's own Lifting Strength. Not that I was saying "should be removed and replaced with X" anyway, just removed, which reading the profile means that they have that same Lifting Strength.

Eseseso, I'm starting to see comments like that as slightly problematic, since it seems consistent that you miss to understand how the information you see already answers the questions you make. It's ok for complex stuff, but the consistency I see isn't for complex stuff. Please take it well, I ask you to pay more attention on trying to reason out this things in the future. I don't think it would be good to keep on seeing comments like it and just don't say anything about them.
TheMonkeMan said:
Stronger than copy abilities... Didn't one rip a tree out or something? And also let him take a huge beam?
Or is that feat restricted due to Kirby's size compared to those?
Click to expand...
Idk what you say here about Kirby's size. Yes they have minor feats mostly, however, since they are implied to be stronger than Copy Abilities, and since one was used to match & kill Fecto Elfilis, that proves they use Kirby's power rather than limit him somehow.
 
Eficiente said:
My comment already implies it. Not that much on Kirby needs to be known for it: Copy Abilities are Kirby doing all kinds of things, lifting included. Mouthful Modes are implied to be stronger than Copy Abilities. Therefore, I was saying that they have Kirby's own Lifting Strength. Not that I was saying "should be removed and replaced with X" anyway, just removed, which reading the profile means that they have that same Lifting Strength.

Eseseso, I'm starting to see comments like that as slightly problematic, since it seems consistent that you miss to understand how the information you see already answers the questions you make. It's ok for complex stuff, but the consistency I see isn't for complex stuff. Please take it well, I ask you to pay more attention on trying to reason out this things in the future. I don't think it would be good to keep on seeing comments like it and just don't say anything about them.

Idk what you say here about Kirby's size. Yes they have minor feats mostly, however, since they are implied to be stronger than Copy Abilities, and since one was used to match & kill Fecto Elfilis, that proves they use Kirby's power rather than limit him somehow.
Click to expand...
I maybe worded weird but I'm saying Kirby's feats may be hindered by his size similar to verses like Spongebob.
So if he inhales an entire tree that may be hindered by his size compared to the tree, but of course this doesn't apply to the new game ( forgot the name, forgotten land or something ) as that's in the "real world".
 
Eficiente said:
@CloverDragon03 Kirby's "Class M with Mouthful Mode" should be removed;
  • As shown in Kirby's profile, Mouthful Modes are implied to be stronger than Copy Abilities.
  • A defeated Fecto Forgo aimed to grab Kirby with a tentacle, drag him to his body, and assimilate him, which while fast, Elfilin could at least try to "swim upwards" from it.
  • Fecto Elfilis could take crushing attacks from Hammer Kirby, which flattens lesser enemies.
Click to expand...
That's fine. Makes sense that Mouthful Mode > Copy Abilities
 
TheMonkeMan said:
I maybe worded weird but I'm saying Kirby's feats may be hindered by his size similar to verses like Spongebob.
So if he inhales an entire tree that may be hindered by his size compared to the tree, but of course this doesn't apply to the new game ( forgot the name, forgotten land or something ) as that's in the "real world".
Click to expand...
Sure they are. We never need to ignore that. Fortunately, he has scaling, acknowledgments of the scaling, and a preference for portraying lesser interpretations of things as not the correct limits characters have. Track record wise, not to say that's a rule.
CloverDragon03 said:
That's fine. Makes sense that Mouthful Mode > Copy Abilities
Click to expand...
Great.
 
Last edited:
Eficiente said:
I was going to put it as
  • Immortality ([...], up to type 4. His/her "comical" ability to revive when killed is both; consistent enough to always be present as secret trivia of the setting, and inconsistent in the sense that it might not be used during serious plots & backstories),
  • Self-Resurrection ([The power]),
  • Regeneration ([...], Low-Godly, likely Mid-Godly when comically reviving. Since they revive "somewhere else in the world", which is shown to be a different place from where they poof/blow up, his/her whole body reappears on its own rather than regrowing from leftover, minuscule parts of their destroyed body; Since statements originally targeted enemies that Kirby has killed or swallowed to revive, it includes ghost enemies that already don't have a physical bodies, and this trivia of the Kirby setting as a fantacy world should likely be shared evenly to all whom it applies to, without ghosts having a superior version of this)
Click to expand...
Mid-Godly? I'm not sure if dying and comically reviving like that fits "complete erasure of one's body, mind and soul". Body for sure, since it affects ghosts soul too but mind?
Of course, it's still nice to see Kirby characters get Self-Ressurection and Immortality , and now Low-Godly isn't limited to just characters with Ghost forms.
 
Also, is this even applicable in a typical VS Battle? Since they're being revived elsewhere... but enemies seem to have revived in the room they were in once Kirby leaves and reenters the room. Of course those could be different enemies in the same position but... Bandanna Waddle Dee in Super Star Ultra could have gotten inhaled by Kirby but still makes it to the Masked Dedede arena in the same castle...
 
Ret_of_Guys said:
Mid-Godly? I'm not sure if dying and comically reviving like that fits "complete erasure of one's body, mind and soul". Body for sure, since it affects ghosts soul too but mind?
Of course, it's still nice to see Kirby characters get Self-Ressurection and Immortality , and now Low-Godly isn't limited to just characters with Ghost forms.
Click to expand...
Mind and soul refer to non-physical aspects of characters, so if it were to say only "body and soul", a character with that destroyed whose non-physical mind survived shouldn't have it. Most can't do that though, if you destroy their soul and/or their body, it stands to reason that their mind gets destroyed too (as long as there is 0 evidence agains that idea). Otherwise, we would be claiming that all characters who get their body and soul destroyed have something called "mind" surviving that, just because it wasn't stated that their mind survived too.
Ret_of_Guys said:
Also, is this even applicable in a typical VS Battle? Since they're being revived elsewhere... but enemies seem to have revived in the room they were in once Kirby leaves and reenters the room. Of course those could be different enemies in the same position but... Bandanna Waddle Dee in Super Star Ultra could have gotten inhaled by Kirby but still makes it to the Masked Dedede arena in the same castle...
Click to expand...
Ours, yes. It's the same as a cartoon character having any level of Regen via funny feats, yet having plots were something can harm or kill them. I'm sure they actually meant "somewhere else in the world" at the time they wrote that.
 
Last edited:
No, the 2-C feat comes from just 15/16 universes in Another Dimension being affected. This only makes the amount of universes in the cosmology higher. And side content now canon, but not present int he same universe (tiny difference).

Also, even if the Crown's feat affected all of Another Dimension, which future evidence may confirm, this parallel worlds would be outside of it, as in Planet Robobot's Meta Knightmare Returns Star Dream used Another Dimension outside of space & time, so that universe was outside of Another Dimension, and was called a parallel.
 
Eficiente said:
No, the 2-C feat comes from just 15/16 universes in Another Dimension being affected. This only makes the amount of universes in the cosmology higher. And side content now canon, but not present int he same universe (tiny difference)
Click to expand...
That makes sense.

Just curious, how many universes do you reckon were added due to these mini-games?
Eficiente said:
.

Also, even if the Crown's feat affected all of Another Dimension, which future evidence may confirm,
Click to expand...
Fingers crossed, although it'd mean squat since we have no idea how many universes are in AD.
Eficiente said:
this parallel worlds would be outside of it, as in Planet Robobot's Meta Knightmare Returns Star Dream used Another Dimension outside of space & time, so that universe was outside of Another Dimension, and was called a parallel.
Click to expand...
OK.
 
Eseseso said:
Just curious, how many universes do you reckon were added due to these mini-games?
Click to expand...
Like 7, I would need to count them. The mode from Star Allies just adds 1 rather than the same amount as all playable characters, as it's easier to claim that it represents 1 parallel world, w/o the possibility of all playable characters being able to do it being meant to be taken at face value.
 
Last edited:
@Eficiente

What currently needs to be evaluated here? And what are the conclusions here so far?
 
Antvasima said:
What currently needs to be evaluated here?
Click to expand...
That can be seen here and here.
Antvasima said:
And what are the conclusions here so far?
Click to expand...
I was adding the things on this sandbox. At first the thread made me more busy than what I expected due to that, but then I also found many, many absurd things everywhere that I needed to register as to not lose track of them. I'm back to adding things from the sandbox and making it smaller and smaller, after that I will see what the 46 notifications I have are about.

----

I finished Dedede's profile.
 
I wonder if the fact that she has more to output changes that. If there is a difference between her having that feat and not, then the Star Allies taking that difference without any notable change in the damage they take seems like a resistance to me. But I could be wrong.
 
Quick question: On Super Team Kirby's profile it says that they scale to Aeon Hero who used 20+ Heart Spears when just 4 sealed Void Termina away.

So would that make post-Clash Kirby characters and Aeon Hero scale to 5x Void Termina?
 
A multiplier off of 2-C is meaningless anyway, plus that’s very assumptive to begin with
 
CloverDragon03 said:
A multiplier off of 2-C is meaningless anyway, plus that’s very assumptive to begin with
Click to expand...
I know it means little due to our dumb rules about 2-C multipliers, but still worth noting.

We'd have Kirby stomp every other 16-universe 2-C character.
 
Eficiente said:
That can be seen here and here.

I was adding the things on this sandbox. At first the thread made me more busy than what I expected due to that, but then I also found many, many absurd things everywhere that I needed to register as to not lose track of them. I'm back to adding things from the sandbox and making it smaller and smaller, after that I will see what the 46 notifications I have are about.

----

I finished Dedede's profile.
Click to expand...
Dedede's now 2-C in all his keys... He probably needs a pre-RTDL key but that comes later after the other revisions
Eficiente said:
I think Star Allies should have this resistance: "Likely Electricity Manipulation (Can survive & block electric attacks from Zan Partizanne after their first battle, in which she was apparently busy supplying electricity to the Jambastion Fortress, a massive spaceship)"
Click to expand...
Any chance of Star Allies getting a verse-specific power page?
 
Eseseso said:
I know it means little due to our dumb rules about 2-C multipliers, but still worth noting.
Click to expand...
Pause there on "our dumb rules about 2-C multipliers", I'm not sure how to word it better, but my immediate reaction to seeing that isn't "He has a proper understanding of the matter and his own solid reasons to disagree with it", but "Those rules annoy him, possibly because he takes joy on the power-fantasy aspect of Vs Debates in a way that's not 100% constructive to Vs. And/or possibly because he saw other people take issue with it and it's normalized to feel that way about it in a reckless sort of way. Also w/o being 100% constructive".

Just trying to help. There is a difference between "disagreeing with something & instantly present your reasons against it where it helps, otherwise stay neutral", and "disagreeing with something, not present anything, build up a negative view or narrative or jokes about it in groups for a time, and then all gang up against it". The latter I have seen too much and it's something to be responsible about, not saying it's the case here. When & if it happens, it's manipulative.
Eseseso said:
Quick question: On Super Team Kirby's profile it says that they scale to Aeon Hero who used 20+ Heart Spears when just 4 sealed Void Termina away.

So would that make post-Clash Kirby characters and Aeon Hero scale to 5x Void Termina?
Click to expand...
Well, there are many factors to consider
  • On the one hand, they didn't just seal "Void Termina's ancestor", as the game calls it, they also killed him, hence he needed to revived and lacked a body. So that's real scaling.
  • On the other hand, they used those spears when he was already dead and could already be sealed, it wasn't even (necessarily) a finishing move in the battle, it was something they did after it. Let alone would the whole battle had been just they showing up, using 4 spears & insta-winning. So they can't possibly be 5x Void Termina. Aeon Hero alone can use that move like 3 times in 1 battle, whose to say the 4 heroes didn't end up using like 240 of those spears on top of their other moves? What we do know for sure is that 4 spears scale, and that therefore 20 of them are "even more notable", whatever that means exactly.
  • The power of "Void Termina's ancestor" next to Void Termina is pretty unknown, but if anything we can guess that Void Termina should be stronger because we know more about him & the dark power in each Jamba Heart piece that makes him up, whereas we don't know if the friend-based or dark energies used to build up "Void Termina's ancestor" were AS strong. Maybe they are inhereditary as strong, or maybe the extra care Hyness put to them is abnormal & therefore made Void Termina stronger. The latter is easier to claim.
    • Notably, "more friendship" gave Kirby & co. more power, and while the opposite isn't confirmed for Void Termina, we do know that all his darkness turned into something called "chaos", which "Void Termina's ancestor" can't be said to have. "Chaos" seems to be a very large amount of dark power accumulated.
Ret_of_Guys said:
Any chance of Star Allies getting a verse-specific power page?
Click to expand...
The Explanations page has a WIP part about it (not a page) that I will maybe finish in 2 years.
 
Eficiente said:
Pause there on "our dumb rules about 2-C multipliers", I'm not sure how to word it better, but my immediate reaction to seeing that isn't "He has a proper understanding of the matter and his own solid reasons to disagree with it", but "Those rules annoy him, possibly because he takes joy on the power-fantasy aspect of Vs Debates in a way that's not 100% constructive to Vs. And/or possibly because he saw other people take issue with it and it's normalized to feel that way about it in a reckless sort of way. Also w/o being 100% constructive".

Just trying to help. There is a difference between "disagreeing with something & instantly present your reasons against it where it helps, otherwise stay neutral", and "disagreeing with something, not present anything, build up a negative view or narrative or jokes about it in groups for a time, and then all gang up against it". The latter I have seen too much and it's something to be responsible about, not saying it's the case here. When & if it happens, it's manipulative.
Click to expand...
I apologize.

I didn't mean anything by it, I was just being grouchy.
Eficiente said:
Well, there are many factors to consider
  • On the one hand, they didn't just seal "Void Termina's ancestor", as the game calls it, they also killed him, hence he needed to revived and lacked a body. So that's real scaling.
  • On the other hand, they used those spears when he was already dead and could already be sealed, it wasn't even (necessarily) a finishing move in the battle, it was something they did after it. Let alone would the whole battle had been just they showing up, using 4 spears & insta-winning. So they can't possibly be 5x Void Termina. Aeon Hero alone can use that move like 3 times in 1 battle, whose to say the 4 heroes didn't end up using like 240 of those spears on top of their other moves? What we do know for sure is that 4 spears scale, and that therefore 20 of them are "even more notable", whatever that means exactly.
  • The power of "Void Termina's ancestor" next to Void Termina is pretty unknown, but if anything we can guess that Void Termina should be stronger because we know more about him & the dark power in each Jamba Heart piece that makes him up, whereas we don't know if the friend-based or dark energies used to build up "Void Termina's ancestor" were AS strong. Maybe they are inhereditary as strong, or maybe the extra care Hyness put to them is abnormal & therefore made Void Termina stronger. The latter is easier to claim.
    • Notably, "more friendship" gave Kirby & co. more power, and while the opposite isn't confirmed for Void Termina, we do know that all his darkness turned into something called "chaos", which "Void Termina's ancestor" can't be said to have. "Chaos" seems to be a very large amount of dark power accumulated.
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks.
 
"Statements or feats of regeneration in which characters are able to survive as long as a part of their existence, such as their souls or minds, remain intact, or that involve the regeneration of a non-physical aspect of the body while the body itself remains intact, do not warrant godly levels of regeneration due to involving resurrection rather than the complete destruction and reforming of both the physical and non-physical aspects of a body, which is a fundamental requirement to qualify." Taken from the regeneration page.

Does this affect the whole Mid-Godly regeneration part since it's ressurection or not since we don't know if any part of their existence remains intact and they just reappear?
 
Well, it's not talking about the same. They don't "survive as long as a part of their existence remain intact", they simply revive when dying. And there is no other non-physical aspect left for ghosts when they do so.

Unless it ever gets stated to be done via the heart or dreams.

I was thinking that if anything Void Termina should have his Mid-Godly regen changed to "Low-Godly, possibly Mid-Godly"; Of the dark / dark matter and friend-based energies (Translated as negative and possitive energy) he uses to build himself, the former (he was only made of that) survived and went to Another Dimension when he died, and this energies are presented both as actual DBZ-like energies around attacks and completely invisible, being there while we don't see them, existing because of the actions done by the characters around. So we can take them as either
  • They always appear as physical and non-physical energies, being able to go through bodies. When not used either
    • at least some of it may appear when inside characters' bodies (Low-Godly for Void)
    • or they simply not exist until used (Low-Godly or Mid-Godly for Void)
  • They always exist as a concept, and from there they create physical and non-physical energies for their users to have. So when not used, there is nothing. So, when Void Termina blew up, either some non-physical parts of his darkness survived (Low-Godly) or this non-used version of "darkness" used was around (Mid-Godly).
 
 
Antvasima said:
It seems very hard to find anybody who is interested in helping you out, Eficiente.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale

Are any of you willing to help out here please? See the post linked below for further information.

Click to expand...
I'll give my thoughts.

Eficiente said:
That can be seen here and here.
Click to expand...
The contents in the explination page about things not making sense and the characters reviving look ok, the other stuff seems ok to but I don't have enough time to go through it in depth.

Eficiente said:
Everyone, Magolor built the sub-games inside his ship as small atractions, when Checkerboard Chase's last level and Smash Ride have spaces full of stars in them. "Magolor has technological capabilities in science along with magic, he states that he created" the structures he makes "using these powers", so he gains: ". 4-A Creation with Preparation time" via magic and technological skills.
Click to expand...
This looks ok if the places he created indeed have stars.
Eficiente said:
I was adding the things on this sandbox. At first the thread made me more busy than what I expected due to that, but then I also found many, many absurd things everywhere that I needed to register as to not lose track of them. I'm back to adding things from the sandbox and making it smaller and smaller, after that I will see what the 46 notifications I have are about.
Click to expand...
The contents look ok.

I'm not really knowledgeable on Kirby so I can't provide any valid input on any inconsistencies though.
 
Thank you very much for helping out. 🙏
 
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