Kirby Cosmology Upgrade Part 2

[SuperStar]

DO. NOT. UNBAN HIM.

 

[CloverDragon03]

So I was contacted by someone who was contacted by QuasiYuri who has this to say about all this:

I’m genuinely not sure what Yuri’s point here is. Yeah, it’s a language and as such is up to interpretation. That’s kind of what we’re in the middle of

Thank you for helping out.

Would QuasiYuri be willing to come back and help us out at some point if we unban him?

We are not bringing back a whole racist just for a CRT, otherwise we’re gonna be going against our policy of no tolerance for bigotry. The fact remains that this and their sockpuppet usage means they’re banned permanently, and no amount of helpfulness or hard working is gonna fix that.

We simply have to pick up the pieces and get help elsewhere

 

[Maskofthedragon]

Would QuasiYuri be willing to come back and help us out at some point if we unban him?

You would need to remove perma-banning all together from this site, for that to not to be bullshit

 

[Bobsican]

I'm sure QuasiYuri has explicitly lost faith on the site to begin with, so this'd just be inviting even more trolling, do I need to remind they didn't even just politely leave, but rather went into an inappropiate wave to be banned ASAP?

 

[Crabwhale]

We are not bringing back a whole racist just for a CRT, otherwise we’re gonna be going against our policy of no tolerance for bigotry. The fact remains that this and their sockpuppet usage means they’re banned permanently, and no amount of helpfulness or hard working is gonna fix that.

We simply have to pick up the pieces and get help elsewhere

Agreed 200%

 

[Eseseso]

Ant, I've always respected you, but unbanning a permabanned sockpuppeting racist is an incredibly vile proposal.

 

[Pikaman]

I agree with the above posts, obviously, but I think it’s become a well established point that nobody wants to see QuasiYuri back just so he can contribute to a Kirby CRT. Denouncing the proposal now is just clogging this already long thread up even more

 

[Firestorm808]

@Pain_to12
@Crabwhale
@CloverDragon03
@Antvasima
@Everything12
@Jasonsith
@TheNinthHour

Sorry for the late reply. I was busy with holiday stuff.

Here are the items for Review

Translation Notes​

Per TheNinthHour

超える (koeru) means to go beyond in the metaphorical sense, as in to "overcome" a hardship.
超えた) koeta - Meaning pending evaluation
越える (koeru) means to go beyond in the physical sense, as in "passing" a physical border or "crossing" a bridge.
次元 (jigen) means dimension in the mathematical sense, as in "how many dimensions does this cube have?"
空間 (kuuka) means dimension in the metaphysical sense, as in "alternate dimension" or "pocket dimension". I know this one specifically from watching Space Sheriff Gavan.

Primary Sources​

Earlier AD Depiction

Upcoming AD Depiction

• 2011 | Kirby's Return to Dreamland
  • Faded images of other worlds are in the background of Another Dimension
  • AD has grid lines appearing
  • The meaning of this imagery is up to interpretation
• 2016 | Kirby: Planet Robobot
  • Galacta Knight's pause screen
    • Raw Japanese: "その力ゆえ おそれらてきた、全てを ほろぼし かねない 古の剣士。クローンではなく、未知なる 異空間ロードから 時空をこえ よびさまされた。 様ざまな時代で ふういん されてきた きろくが 残るが、しょうめつ させることは できていない"
      • Sono chikara-yue o sorerate kita, subete o horoboshi kanenai inishie no kenshi. Kurōnde wa naku, michinaru i kūkan rōdo kara jikū o koe yobisamasa reta.-Sama zamana jidai de fū in sa rete kita kiro ku ga nokoruga, shi ~youmetsu sa seru koto wa dekite inai
    • Raw English: "An ancient swordsman who can destroy everything due to his strength. Not a clone, he was awakened from an unknown another dimensional road beyond space-time. Records remain that he has been sealed in various eras, but he has never been terminated."
    • クローンではなく、未知なる 異空間ロードから 時空をこえ よびさまされた。 = Kurōnde wa naku, michinaru i kūkan rōdo kara jikū o koe yobisamasa reta. = Google: Instead of being a clone, it was awakened across time and space by an unknown alien space lord.
    • 空間 (kuuka) means dimension in the metaphysical sense, as in "alternate dimension" or "pocket dimension". I know this one specifically from watching Space Sheriff Gavan.
• 2023 | Kirby's Return to Dreamland Deluxe
  • See trailer above
  • AD has grid lines appearing
  • We see images of other worlds now contained in spheres of some kind.

Twitter Promo Sources​

• 2018 | Promo Tweet
  • Raw Japanese: ジャマハローア！！ すっごく強いパワーが集まると、別次元の なんていったかしら…そうそう！イクウカンに通じる「穴」が 開かれるって、ハイネス様が言ってたわよ！ 時も次元も超えて、別の世界に通じちゃうから キケンなんですよぉ～、って言ってたわ！！ #星のカービィスターアライズ
    • Jamaharōa! ! Suggoku tsuyoi pawā ga atsumaru to, betsu jigen no nante itta kashira… sō sō! Ikuukan ni tsūjiru `ana' ga aka reru tte, hainesu-sama ga itteta wa yo! Toki mo jigen mo koete,-betsu no sekai ni tsūji chaukara kiken'na ndesu yo ~o ~, tte itteta wa! ! #-Boshi no kābyisutāaraizu
  • Raw English: "Bonjam! When very strong power gathers, a hole leading to... hmm. What was it that he said? Yes, yes! Lord Hyness said that a hole leading to Another Dimension will be opened! He said it's dangerous because it leads to another world which exceeds time and dimensions!"
    • "時間" is "time", and more notably
    • "次元" (jigen) is "dimensions"
      • Use of word supported by Jasonsith
    • "超えて" is what was translated into "which exceeds".

Miiverse Social Media Sources​

• 2014 | Behind the Scenes
  • Raw Japanese: "彼はカービィWiiのクライマックスに消息不明となりますが、こうしてアトラクションの中で元気な姿を見るに、時空を越えるあの異空間で迷いながらも、ひょっこりどこかの出口から脱出できたのでしょうか。カービィ達が元の世界に帰って来たあの後に、マホロアもまた世界を旅しながら、本作のような攻略しがいのあるユニークなテーマパークを、様々な世界で作っているのかもしれませんね。"
    • Kare wa kābyi u~ī no kuraimakkusu ni shōsoku fumei to narimasuga, kōshite atorakushon no naka de genkina sugata o miru ni, jikū o koeru ano i kūkan de mayoinagara mo, hyokkori doko ka no deguchi kara dasshutsu dekita nodeshou ka. Kābyi-tachi ga gen no sekai ni kaette kita ano ato ni, mahoroa mo mata sekai o tabi shinagara, honsaku no yōna kōryaku shi gai no aru yunīkuna tēmapāku o, samazamana sekai de tsukutte iru no kamo shiremasen ne.
  • Raw English: "Magolor’s whereabouts are uncertain after Kirby’s Return to Dream Land, but he seems pretty lively here. After roaming around the dimension beyond space and time, he might’ve found an exit. When Kirby and his friends returned home, maybe Magolor traveled around building theme parks in different worlds."
  • 時空を越えるあ= Jikū o koeru a = Google: transcending time and space
  • 越える (koeru) means to go beyond in the physical sense, as in "passing" a physical border or "crossing" a bridge.
• 2016 | Behind the Scenes
  • Raw Japanese: 「真　かちぬきボスバトル」も「if」という設定なので、全てがつながっているわけではありません。また、ギャラクティックナイトの出現時に開く異空間ロードは時空を超えた存在のため、時系列で並べるのは難しいんです。ですが、過去3作でのギャラクティックナイトの出現時の場面を並べて推測すると、ロマンが広がると思いますよ。
    なお、ギャラクティックナイトが出現したあとに「星の夢」を斬りつける理由は明確で、強引に時空を移動させられたことから、「星の夢」を敵と認識したんです。結果、好戦的なギャラクティックナイトらしい演出になりました。
    • `Ma kachinuki bosubatoru' mo `if' to iu setteinanode, subete ga tsunagatte iru wakede wa arimasen. Mata, gyarakutikkunaito no shutsugen-ji ni hiraku i kūkan rōdo wa jikū o koeta sonzai no tame, jikeiretsu de naraberu no wa muzukashī ndesu. Desuga, kako 3-saku de no gyarakutikkunaito no shutsugen-ji no bamen o narabete suisoku suru to, roman ga hirogaru to omoimasu yo. Nao, gyarakutikkunaito ga shutsugen shita ato ni hoshi no yume' o kiri tsukeru riyū wa meikakude, gōin ni jikū o idō sa se rareta koto kara,-boshi no yume' o teki to ninshiki shita ndesu. Kekka, kōsentekina gyarakutikkunaitorashī enshutsu ni narimashita.
  • Raw English: The True Arena is like another “what if” scenario, so you can’t really consider everything to be connected. Furthermore, the extra-dimensional road that opens up when Galacta Knight appears transcends space-time, so it’s difficult to give it a concrete place in the timeline. But if you consider the stages in which Galacta Knight appeared in the past three games, I think that will give you some food for thought.
  • 時空を超えた存在のため、= Jikū o koetasonzai no tame = Google: For an existence that transcends time and space
  • 超える (koeru) means to go beyond in the metaphorical sense, as in to "overcome" a hardship.
    超えた) koeta - Meaning pending evaluation
    越える (koeru) means to go beyond in the physical sense, as in "passing" a physical border or "crossing" a bridge.

​

 

[The_Pink_God]

If Peptocoptr doesn't have Supernatural Willpower for never allowing this year-long thread to die, then idk how do you even gain that power

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind then. I had forgotten why QuasiYuri was banned. I just vaguely recalled that he behaved badly and made unproven claims just to get himself banned.

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Pain_to12
@Crabwhale
@CloverDragon03
@Antvasima
@Everything12
@Jasonsith
@TheNinthHour

Sorry for the late reply. I was busy with holiday stuff.

Here are the items for Review

Translation Notes​

Per TheNinthHour

超える (koeru) means to go beyond in the metaphorical sense, as in to "overcome" a hardship.
超えた) koeta - Meaning pending evaluation
越える (koeru) means to go beyond in the physical sense, as in "passing" a physical border or "crossing" a bridge.
次元 (jigen) means dimension in the mathematical sense, as in "how many dimensions does this cube have?"
空間 (kuuka) means dimension in the metaphysical sense, as in "alternate dimension" or "pocket dimension". I know this one specifically from watching Space Sheriff Gavan.

Primary Sources​

Earlier AD Depiction

Upcoming AD Depiction

• 2011 | Kirby's Return to Dreamland
  • Faded images of other worlds are in the background of Another Dimension
  • AD has grid lines appearing
  • The meaning of this imagery is up to interpretation
• 2016 | Kirby: Planet Robobot
  • Galacta Knight's pause screen
    • Raw Japanese: "その力ゆえ おそれらてきた、全てを ほろぼし かねない 古の剣士。クローンではなく、未知なる 異空間ロードから 時空をこえ よびさまされた。 様ざまな時代で ふういん されてきた きろくが 残るが、しょうめつ させることは できていない"
      • Sono chikara-yue o sorerate kita, subete o horoboshi kanenai inishie no kenshi. Kurōnde wa naku, michinaru i kūkan rōdo kara jikū o koe yobisamasa reta.-Sama zamana jidai de fū in sa rete kita kiro ku ga nokoruga, shi ~youmetsu sa seru koto wa dekite inai
    • Raw English: "An ancient swordsman who can destroy everything due to his strength. Not a clone, he was awakened from an unknown another dimensional road beyond space-time. Records remain that he has been sealed in various eras, but he has never been terminated."
    • クローンではなく、未知なる 異空間ロードから 時空をこえ よびさまされた。 = Kurōnde wa naku, michinaru i kūkan rōdo kara jikū o koe yobisamasa reta. = Google: Instead of being a clone, it was awakened across time and space by an unknown alien space lord.
    • 空間 (kuuka) means dimension in the metaphysical sense, as in "alternate dimension" or "pocket dimension". I know this one specifically from watching Space Sheriff Gavan.
• 2023 | Kirby's Return to Dreamland Deluxe
  • See trailer above
  • AD has grid lines appearing
  • We see images of other worlds now contained in spheres of some kind.

Twitter Promo Sources​

• 2018 | Promo Tweet
  • Raw Japanese: ジャマハローア！！ すっごく強いパワーが集まると、別次元の なんていったかしら…そうそう！イクウカンに通じる「穴」が 開かれるって、ハイネス様が言ってたわよ！ 時も次元も超えて、別の世界に通じちゃうから キケンなんですよぉ～、って言ってたわ！！ #星のカービィスターアライズ
    • Jamaharōa! ! Suggoku tsuyoi pawā ga atsumaru to, betsu jigen no nante itta kashira… sō sō! Ikuukan ni tsūjiru `ana' ga aka reru tte, hainesu-sama ga itteta wa yo! Toki mo jigen mo koete,-betsu no sekai ni tsūji chaukara kiken'na ndesu yo ~o ~, tte itteta wa! ! #-Boshi no kābyisutāaraizu
  • Raw English: "Bonjam! When very strong power gathers, a hole leading to... hmm. What was it that he said? Yes, yes! Lord Hyness said that a hole leading to Another Dimension will be opened! He said it's dangerous because it leads to another world which exceeds time and dimensions!"
    • "時間" is "time", and more notably
    • "次元" (jigen) is "dimensions"
      • Use of word supported by Jasonsith
    • "超えて" is what was translated into "which exceeds".

Miiverse Social Media Sources​

• 2014 | Behind the Scenes
  • Raw Japanese: "彼はカービィWiiのクライマックスに消息不明となりますが、こうしてアトラクションの中で元気な姿を見るに、時空を越えるあの異空間で迷いながらも、ひょっこりどこかの出口から脱出できたのでしょうか。カービィ達が元の世界に帰って来たあの後に、マホロアもまた世界を旅しながら、本作のような攻略しがいのあるユニークなテーマパークを、様々な世界で作っているのかもしれませんね。"
    • Kare wa kābyi u~ī no kuraimakkusu ni shōsoku fumei to narimasuga, kōshite atorakushon no naka de genkina sugata o miru ni, jikū o koeru ano i kūkan de mayoinagara mo, hyokkori doko ka no deguchi kara dasshutsu dekita nodeshou ka. Kābyi-tachi ga gen no sekai ni kaette kita ano ato ni, mahoroa mo mata sekai o tabi shinagara, honsaku no yōna kōryaku shi gai no aru yunīkuna tēmapāku o, samazamana sekai de tsukutte iru no kamo shiremasen ne.
  • Raw English: "Magolor’s whereabouts are uncertain after Kirby’s Return to Dream Land, but he seems pretty lively here. After roaming around the dimension beyond space and time, he might’ve found an exit. When Kirby and his friends returned home, maybe Magolor traveled around building theme parks in different worlds."
  • 時空を越えるあ= Jikū o koeru a = Google: transcending time and space
  • 越える (koeru) means to go beyond in the physical sense, as in "passing" a physical border or "crossing" a bridge.
• 2016 | Behind the Scenes
  • Raw Japanese: 「真　かちぬきボスバトル」も「if」という設定なので、全てがつながっているわけではありません。また、ギャラクティックナイトの出現時に開く異空間ロードは時空を超えた存在のため、時系列で並べるのは難しいんです。ですが、過去3作でのギャラクティックナイトの出現時の場面を並べて推測すると、ロマンが広がると思いますよ。
    なお、ギャラクティックナイトが出現したあとに「星の夢」を斬りつける理由は明確で、強引に時空を移動させられたことから、「星の夢」を敵と認識したんです。結果、好戦的なギャラクティックナイトらしい演出になりました。
    • `Ma kachinuki bosubatoru' mo `if' to iu setteinanode, subete ga tsunagatte iru wakede wa arimasen. Mata, gyarakutikkunaito no shutsugen-ji ni hiraku i kūkan rōdo wa jikū o koeta sonzai no tame, jikeiretsu de naraberu no wa muzukashī ndesu. Desuga, kako 3-saku de no gyarakutikkunaito no shutsugen-ji no bamen o narabete suisoku suru to, roman ga hirogaru to omoimasu yo. Nao, gyarakutikkunaito ga shutsugen shita ato ni hoshi no yume' o kiri tsukeru riyū wa meikakude, gōin ni jikū o idō sa se rareta koto kara,-boshi no yume' o teki to ninshiki shita ndesu. Kekka, kōsentekina gyarakutikkunaitorashī enshutsu ni narimashita.
  • Raw English: The True Arena is like another “what if” scenario, so you can’t really consider everything to be connected. Furthermore, the extra-dimensional road that opens up when Galacta Knight appears transcends space-time, so it’s difficult to give it a concrete place in the timeline. But if you consider the stages in which Galacta Knight appeared in the past three games, I think that will give you some food for thought.
  • 時空を超えた存在のため、= Jikū o koetasonzai no tame = Google: For an existence that transcends time and space
  • 超える (koeru) means to go beyond in the metaphorical sense, as in to "overcome" a hardship.
    超えた) koeta - Meaning pending evaluation
    越える (koeru) means to go beyond in the physical sense, as in "passing" a physical border or "crossing" a bridge.

​

There are like 5 statements saying beyond/transcend space-time.
I guess it is solid, but can you provide examples of how the space behaves?

 

[Firestorm808]

There are like 5 statements saying beyond/transcend space-time.
I guess it is solid, but can you provide examples of how the space behaves?

Due to the nature of the Japanese language, we can't always take the raw English translation.
To clarify, one statement is about mathematical dimensions. Another is about the metaphysical sense, as in "alternate dimension" or "pocket dimension."

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Hey I'm back. Happy new year! I'll catch up with the necessities shortly.

If Peptocoptr doesn't have Supernatural Willpower for never allowing this year-long thread to die, then idk how do you even gain that power

Is superhuman pain tolerance normally a part of the package?

 

[Everything12]

There are like 5 statements saying beyond/transcend space-time.
I guess it is solid, but can you provide examples of how the space behaves?

You can have a hundred statements talking about being beyond/transcending space-time and that wouldn't mean anything without further evidence providing context to what that entails.

Edit: To clarify, this statement is not about the CRT or evidence presented itself, but instead me clarifying how this topic is evaluated and what is sufficient evidence.

 

[PrinceofPein]

You can have a hundred statements talking about being beyond/transcending space-time and that wouldn't mean anything without further evidence providing context to what that entails.

Took the words right out of my mouth
But it does seem solid that this space transcends the multiverse, but like I said, we need examples of how this space behaves

Due to the nature of the Japanese language, we can't always take the raw English translation.
To clarify, one statement is about mathematical dimensions. Another is about the metaphysical sense, as in "alternate dimension" or "pocket dimension."

I don't want you guys to get me wrong, I should have worded it carefully.

I am not saying the space is low 1-C, I am saying it is solid that it does transcend the multiverse as opposed to a single statement that can mean "outside" or "around" the multiverse, but either way you still need to provide how this space behaves i.e. the difference between it and the multiverse, or the relation between them that makes you think the transcendence is ontological

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

Well this thread certainly got a boost of attention, good for it and the OP. In the event that these changes do get validated, exactly what will the tiering and scaling look like in conjunction with the verse's cosmology and its characters?

 

[Eseseso]

Well this thread certainly got a boost of attention, good for it and the OP. In the event that these changes do get validated, exactly what will the tiering and scaling look like in conjunction with the verse's cosmology and its characters?

Any character upgrades will be for a 2nd CRT, as stated in the OP.

 

[Potemkat]

I’m genuinely not sure what Yuri’s point here is. Yeah, it’s a language and as such is up to interpretation. That’s kind of what we’re in the middle of

Sorry, I don't know much Kirby but I think I understand the post.

He (?) says that "Jigen" can mean parallel/alternate dimensions, and I think the others here are saying it only can mean dimensions like in mathematics.
If nothing shows that it's mathematical, it changes things, no?

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Huh. There isn't as much to catch up to as I thought. Mostly just rightful disgust at the idea of bringing back a racist sock-puppeter for a CRT. Anyway.

But it does seem solid that this space transcends the multiverse, but like I said, we need examples of how this space behaves

The blog is there for that. Even further elaboration is provided in several pages of the thread.

Sorry, I don't know much Kirby but I think I understand the post.

He (?) says that "Jigen" can mean parallel/alternate dimensions.

"Ijigen" can mean that, like we both said. That's what the Wikipedia page says too. The definition of jigen still remains the same though. It can refer to other measurements, which is something I also brought up, but within the context of the statements, it's obvious AD isn't superior to those kinds of measurements. Trust me. I looked for alternative translations and I invite you to do the same. Every argument pulled here has been debunked in my debate with Effi. Every Japanese expert in and out of this thread to meaningfully weigh in on this topic agrees with my conclusion. I could send my sources that back it up (including the Wikipedia page Effi and Quasi tried to use to disprove it), but it still wouldn't be as straight-forward and reliable as TheNinthHour's comment, especially after all this thread has been through.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Huh. There isn't as much to catch up to as I thought. Mostly just rightful disgust at the idea of bringing back a racist sock-puppeter for a CRT. Anyway.

The blog is there for that. Even further elaboration is provided in several pages of the thread.

"Ijigen" can mean that, like we both said. That's what the Wikipedia page says too. The definition of jigen still remains the same though. It can refer to other measurements, which is something I also brought up, but within the context of the statements, it's obvious AD isn't superior to those kinds of measurements. Trust me. I looked for alternative translations and I invite you to do the same. Every argument pulled here has been debunked in my debate with Effi. Every Japanese expert in and out of this thread to meaningfully weigh in on this topic agrees with my conclusion. I could send my sources that back it up (including the Wikipedia page Effi and Quasi tried to use to disprove it), but it still wouldn't be as straight-forward and reliable as TheNinthHour's comment, especially after all this thread has been through.

Again you need to provide why this transcendence is ontological

 

[Potemkat]

Huh. There isn't as much to catch up to as I thought. Mostly just rightful disgust at the idea of bringing back a racist sock-puppeter for a CRT. Anyway.

The blog is there for that. Even further elaboration is provided in several pages of the thread.

"Ijigen" can mean that, like we both said. That's what the Wikipedia page says too. The definition of jigen still remains the same though. It can refer to other measurements, which is something I also brought up, but within the context of the statements, it's obvious AD isn't superior to those kinds of measurements. Trust me. I looked for alternative translations and I invite you to do the same. Every argument pulled here has been debunked in my debate with Effi. Every Japanese expert in and out of this thread to meaningfully weigh in on this topic agrees with my conclusion. I could send my sources that back it up (including the Wikipedia page Effi and Quasi tried to use to disprove it), but it still wouldn't be as straight-forward and reliable as TheNinthHour's comment, especially after all this thread has been through.

I don't really see why it would make sense to refer mathematics rather than world-like dimensions.

Also, I think The NinthHour made a mistake (maybe the show they watched had a problem). 空間 means space.
And I don't think wikipedia is wrong.

Also, Dragon Ball uses Jigen for alternate dimensions, no?

 

[Antvasima]

You can have a hundred statements talking about being beyond/transcending space-time and that wouldn't mean anything without further evidence providing context to what that entails.

Edit: To clarify, this statement is not about the CRT or evidence presented itself, but instead me clarifying how this topic is evaluated and what is sufficient evidence.

That is correct, yes. Thank you greatly for helping out so much.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Pain_to12 How should the faded images under the Primary Source section be interpreted?

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Pain_to12 How should the faded images under the Primary Source section be interpreted?

They are drawn grid, but we cannot determine what dimension it is projecting but so far it is a 3D projection/images and a curve in space can be possibly 4D, since a curve in space can be caused by higher dimension phenomenon

 

[CloverDragon03]

They are drawn grid, but we cannot determine what dimension it is projecting but so far it is a 3D projection/images and a curve in space can be possibly 4D, since a curve in space can be caused by higher dimension phenomenon

I think these faded spaces within Another Dimension are of the same nature as the spaces in Another Dimension where Sphere Doomers are fought in - spaces that are already considered likely 4-D.

 

[Darkz]

I think these faded spaces within Another Dimension are of the same nature as the spaces in Another Dimension where Sphere Doomers are fought in - spaces that are already considered likely 4-D.

I could see them also being similar to the Parallel Dimensions we see in Star Allies. In those we do go to previous areas we went to before after all.
Though, it's probably what you said since Star Allies came out several years later after RTDL.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Thank you for your patience.

Again you need to provide why this transcendence is ontological

Define "ontological" in this context.

I don't really see why it would make sense to refer mathematics rather than world-like dimensions.

Also, I think The NinthHour made a mistake (maybe the show they watched had a problem). 空間 means space.
And I don't think wikipedia is wrong.

Also, Dragon Ball uses Jigen for alternate dimensions, no?

So you want a THIRD Japanese translator's input? I don't think the Wikipedia page is wrong either. I even used it to back up my argument. The reasoning used to say it actually contradicts my argument is very weak.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Define "ontological" in this context.

sees the lower world as fiction/non-existent or something similar

 

[Potemkat]

So you want a THIRD Japanese translator's input? I don't think the Wikipedia page is wrong either. I even used it to back up my argument. The reasoning used to say it actually contradicts my argument is very weak.

I just said they made a mistake..

It's not weak.
You say the word only means mathematical dimensions, and it's not true.
So rn there's no evidences of it refering to mathematical dimensions.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

sees the lower world as fiction/non-existent or something similar

Or encompasses it in an infinitesimal portion of itself, as per the FAQ requirements. This is inherently what superiority to mathematical dimensions entail, as explained here. If you really want something similar to a fiction/reality relationship, there is the general perception of the universes from within AD's higher dimensional space that we went over. Can you elaborate what you mean here? Are you saying that space which contains those universes is actually 4D since we have no proof those pictures are already 4D?

I just said they made a mistake..

It's not weak. You say the word only means mathematical dimensions, and it's not true.
So rn there's no evidences of it refering to mathematical dimensions.

I said Jigen translates to dimension in the mathematical sense, and that Ijigen translates to pocket dimensions/parallel universes. There's no contradiction between what I say and what the Wikipedia page says. We say the same thing. Again. I went over this thoroughly with Effciente. So yes, the argument is in fact weak. TheNinthHour isn't even wrong in their assertion. 空間 can be used to describe a dimension in the metaphysical sense.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Or encompasses it in an infinitesimal portion of itself, as per the FAQ requirements. This is inherently what superiority to mathematical dimensions entail, as explained here. If you really want something similar to a fiction/reality relationship, there is the general perception of the universes from within AD's higher dimensional space that we went over.

can you send the scans of this perception

Can you elaborate what you mean here? Are you saying that space which contains those universes is actually 4D since we have no proof those pictures are already 4D?

I meant those grids drawing are representation of spaces, the objects are 3 dimensional, while a bend in space can be caused by phenomenon of higher Dimension i.e. 4-D in this case.

 

[Potemkat]

I said Jigen translates to dimension in the mathematical sense, and that Ijigen translates to pocket dimensions/parallel universes. There's no contradiction between what I say and what the Wikipedia page says. We say the same thing.

The wikipedia page says that Jigen also translates to dimensions as world... Like how english say "dimension" and not always "parallel dimensions".

I didn't see proof that it means mathematical dimensions when Kirby never talked about these but has a lot of the other kind...

And we know it's true with cases like Dragon Ball which say Jigen and not Ijigen (I verified in case the one who said it made a mistake) It's not that rare..

Again. I went over this thoroughly with Effciente. So yes, the argument is in fact weak. TheNinthHour isn't even wrong in their assertion. 空間 can be used to describe a dimension in the metaphysical sense.

It means space before anything. I guess you could call a dimension "a space", but it's not common unlike Jigen and Sekai.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

can you send the scans of this perception

I already linked it, but here it is again.

I meant those grids drawing are representation of spaces, the objects are 3 dimensional, while a bend in space can be caused by phenomenon of higher Dimension i.e. 4-D in this case.

So my assessment was correct, then.

The wikipedia page says that Jigen also translates to dimensions as world... Like how english say "dimension" and not always "parallel dimensions".

It says that for Ijigen, yes. I verified this. The reason it shows up on the page for Jigen is because the term is derived from Jigen, hence why it shows up in this category. It's still explicitely a different term.

I didn't see proof that it means mathematical dimensions when Kirby never talked about these but has a lot of the other kind...

And when it does talk about that other kind, it consistently uses different terminology.

And we know it's true with cases like Dragon Ball which say Jigen and not Ijigen (I verified in case the one who said it made a mistake) It's not that rare..

This thread isn't about Dragon Ball. I have no idea what the statement is in question anyway. If it refers to a realm as being outright superior to "Jigen", they're free to do as they please with this info.

It means space before anything. I guess you could call a dimension "a space", but it's not common unlike Jigen and Sekai.

It's a bit less common than Sekai but still pretty common.

Am I still wasting time here? Where is staff?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I already linked it, but here it is again.

And how exactly did you come to the conclusion that is like R>F?
Cause I certainly did not

 

[Antvasima]

What do our staff members currently need to evaluate here? I can call for Firestorm808, Everything12, and Eficiente after an explanation post has been provided.

 

[Potemkat]

It says that for Ijigen, yes. I verified this. The reason it shows up on the page for Jigen is because the term is derived from Jigen, hence why it shows up in this category. It's still explicitely a different term.

It says Jigen too and it's not an explicitely different term.
You can say "dimension" for a parallel one, same true in japanese.

And when it does talk about that other kind, it consistently uses different terminology.

That's not proof it says mathematical. Just that Kirby can use synonyms.

This thread isn't about Dragon Ball. I have no idea what the statement is in question anyway. If it refers to a realm as being outright superior to "Jigen", they're free to do as they please with this info.

The Buu thing. One of you sent it.

It's a bit less common than Sekai but still pretty common.

It's not... I don't know why you say that.

I may not be best at english, but I know my language...

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I was waiting to see how many people still care about this thread. Plain to see the answer is none. Now that I have a clearer life perpose and constant studies I have even less of a reason to keep going, but I'm not done yet. Hol up.

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

So this will never be finished huh...

 

[Antvasima]

What do our staff members currently need to evaluate here? I can call for Firestorm808, Everything12, and Eficiente after an explanation post has been provided.

 

[Everything12]

Opinion unchanged.