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These are the conclusions that have been made so far for anyone who happened to miss it further up above.
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Kingdom Hearts Multiplier Scaling
- Thread starter Bobsican
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Is there a specific reason for not comparing fiction to real life regarding the mechanics of dual wielding or does the "rather" indicate that this is merely a personal inclination? I know that this might seem like an oddly specific application of real life rules for a franchise which isn't exactly known for realism but the standard assumption for fiction being the same as reality unless otherwise noted or shown makes me think that we really shouldn't assume that it is different in this specific case without any actual evidence for that. Is there some principle regarding this issue that I'm not aware of?
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Because fiction doesn't care how real life works. We have verses were characters can use 2 to 3 and even more swords with just as much strength and skill as people with one sword. I just don't see a solid reason to compare them by default unless stated but that's my opinion.
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Okay, so in your personal opinion the standard assumption of fiction being the same as reality unless otherwise shown or noted shouldn't be applied to this particular case, do I understand that right? Technically fiction is at least somewhat based on real life otherwise we wouldn't be able to make any sense out of it at all but I get that you probably are referring to fiction tending to take a lot of creative liberties though such cases are usually perfectly compliant with the standard assumption I mentioned out of being either clearly demonstrated or stated.
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Yes.
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@Antvasima I've already seen that comment and the multipliers that have already been accepted will definitely be applied as far as I can tell. That being said I'll still ask for clarifications if I want some. Even without that some details would still need to be cleared up like whether or not we are indeed going to apply that footnote about Captain Hook and Peter Pan explaining the weirdness about their showings in KHI and the other games and what exactly we are going to write in said footnote if we do apply it. We'd also need to give Sora additional keys to account for the multipliers and boosts properly. He'd need a KHII key because of Xion and Roxas and he might also be in need of a key for 3D if he scales to his KHII self in Drive Forms due to performing Drive Form-like actions and fighting Xemnas. It would probably be worth mentioning in his KHIII key that he is at his strongest in that game as well.
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Okay, your reservations about fiction defying the laws of reality seem to outweigh the standard assumption I've mentioned for you then. I guess the statement isn't clear and unambiguous enough for you to accept it. I think I can understand that to some degree.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it isn't possible or that your wrong. It's just my opinion on that matter.
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I already understood that it was an opinion. You've already mentioned that previously and I referenced that. If I get you right, you'd just rather not apply something like that based on the current evidence even if it isn't exactly impossible and makes some sense, right?
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Yes.
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Okay, I'd like to get some further input for the accepted changes. Sora would get two new keys and an edit to his KHIII key. This would also have an effect on the scaling, so we'll need to make it clear on the relevant profiles to which of Sora's keys they scale. Other profiles might get new keys because of the scaling as well like Riku, Donald and Goofy.
There is also the footnote for Peter Pan and Captain Hook. Technically none of their showings in KHI contradict what they do in BBS and KHII but scaling them to Sora with his Drive Forms is bound to be weird for quite a number of people in the context of KHI. That being said, is weirdness on its own enough to justify a footnote when there wouldn't be real unaddressed contradictions without it? I'd like to hear other people's opinions on that and their input for what should be included in the footnote if we add it.
There is also the footnote for Peter Pan and Captain Hook. Technically none of their showings in KHI contradict what they do in BBS and KHII but scaling them to Sora with his Drive Forms is bound to be weird for quite a number of people in the context of KHI. That being said, is weirdness on its own enough to justify a footnote when there wouldn't be real unaddressed contradictions without it? I'd like to hear other people's opinions on that and their input for what should be included in the footnote if we add it.
Mr. Bambu
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Hey. I suppose I should post this. I was sent this, I haven't read it particularly closely or anything but I figure it may as well be inspected.
docs.google.com
Debunking Bob's KH Revisions
The blog gets updated ever so much so I’ll update too when I have the time. Link to blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Low_2-C_Feats “As we all know ever since KH3D, Joshua and Riku confirm that every single world has its own flow of time ("So what? That's true o...
docs.google.com
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I think that's for the Low 2-C revision, or at least I think from what I see, so I suggest you to post it here.Hey. I suppose I should post this. I was sent this, I haven't read it particularly closely or anything but I figure it may as well be inspected.
Debunking Bob's KH Revisions
The blog gets updated ever so much so I’ll update too when I have the time. Link to blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Low_2-C_Feats “As we all know ever since KH3D, Joshua and Riku confirm that every single world has its own flow of time ("So what? That's true o...
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I remember Bobsican having brought up that document on Discord. ThanatosX is right in the sense that this is directed at the Low 2-C revision, so that's rather off-topic.Hey. I suppose I should post this. I was sent this, I haven't read it particularly closely or anything but I figure it may as well be inspected.
Debunking Bob's KH Revisions
The blog gets updated ever so much so I’ll update too when I have the time. Link to blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Low_2-C_Feats “As we all know ever since KH3D, Joshua and Riku confirm that every single world has its own flow of time ("So what? That's true o...
Mr. Bambu
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As I said, I wasn't particularly interested in reading an 11-page Kingdom Hearts document. If it isn't relevant, then that's fine.
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Okay.
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I'd like us to get back on topic after this small off-topic excursion. When it comes to characters that might need new keys when these revisions get applied one of them that comes to mind would be Roxas. He scales to Xion who is 4x KHI Sora and got stronger afterwards through attaining a second Keyblade, then his power got added to Sora which makes him half of KHII Sora. Later during the events of KHII Roxas fights Sora in the Dive to Heart and can clearly keep up which would make Dive to Heart Roxas stronger than 358/2 Days and beginning of KHII Roxas.
This would have its implications for Riku as well. Obviously he would scale to Sora during the events of KHII due to fighting alongside him against Xemnas, he also had a brief scuffle against Sora in Land of Dragons, which would give him a KHII key. Having been under similar circumstances as Sora during KH3D and being presumably comparable to Sora like in other games while also having Flowmotion and being therefore capable of Drive Form-like actions should warrant a KH3D key for him. There is also his fight against 358/2 Days Roxas who is equivalent to half of KHII Sora which would give him a 358/2 Days key around half as strong as his KHII key.
As for possible contents for the considered footnote in regards to Peter Pan and Captain Hook we could give it the following contents: "While nothing in KHI would suggest Peter Pan and Captain Hook scaling to KHII Sora with his Drive Forms there is also nothing that explicitly contradicts that scaling. Also worthy of consideration is the fact that KHI is chronologically between BBS and KHII from which the showings that support that scaling come from which would make them being much weaker in KHI without an explanation to back that up quite implausible. The feats from two games would also outweigh the feats from one single game in terms of consistency."
We would also need to clear up whether or not we even want or need a footnote like that since like the suggested content already says there is no real contradiction from KHI that would make their showings from that game incompatible or even really just problematic for the suggested scaling. The only thing that is in support for the footnote that I know of would be perceived weirdness and therefore disbelief about Peter Pan and Captain Hook being that strong in KHI.
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Characters that would definitely need a KHII key would be:
- Sora
- Donald
- Goofy
- Riku
- Roxas
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A new thought that came to me is that we might need to clarify the scaling on some of the profiles a little bit because of the new keys. Some profiles aren't going to be entirely obvious about to which version of Sora they'd scale to.
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Nehz's bigger post seems fine, tho I still think the footnote is required, because of the possibility of KH1 Peter Pan to be an outlier/incongruence.
I'm not sure Saix should scale just because he fought and lost to Sora, especially if we don't know how much troubles he gave him during the fight.
I'm not sure Saix should scale just because he fought and lost to Sora, especially if we don't know how much troubles he gave him during the fight.
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Oh, so you think that the note could be included because of KH1 Peter Pan possibly being some sort of outlier? Fair enough, but if KHI doesn't have anything that can't be interpreted as anything but a contradiction, then the note wouldn't really have much in the way of actual contradictions to clear up. So, should the note just be there to clear up possible confusion about this?
The Organization would have quite the intimate knowledge about the workings of Nobodies. They'd also have a pretty accurate idea of how strong Xion and Roxas were at the time of their battle since they nurtured and strengthened them to that level in the first place. Likewise they have been observing Sora on his journey in KHII. Based on that we can safely conclude that they had a pretty good idea of about how much strength Sora possessed at that time, so it wouldn't make much sense for Saïx to face Sora alone without being able to fight against Sora's level of strength especially since Sora also had Donald and Goofy to back him up at the time. It also wouldn't make much sense in the context of Saïx having fought Roxas before and therefore most likely knowing that his level of strength from that one specific fight wouldn't be enough.
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Yes, because Peter Pan and Hook, respectively team member and boss in KH1, being incredibly stronger than both Sora and Ansem makes little sense in the context of the game, making it an outlier, as them being stronger in two other occasions is more consistent.
The novel seems to justify Saix's scaling, but how much weight does it hold (the novel)? I'm not too knowledgeable on them, but are they confirmed to be a sort of expanded canon or such?
Knowing the opponent's level of strength and deciding to fight them alone doesn't really mean you necessarily scale to them, it's better judge their performance in the fight, but overall those are good support evidences.
Bobsican
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They're a sort of secondary canon for our purposes.
https://www.khinsider.com/news/New-GMaga-Scans-and-Interview-100
- When Nomura was doing the editorial supervising for the KH2 novels (so the new scenes in the novels are a part of the story), he realized that he should have expanded some scenes so the new cutscenes are going to be there to explain some things that weren't explained in the original game. These scenes take place prior to and subsequent to the timeline in KHII. There will also be some scenes that will raise more questions.
Overall, the novels have scenes Nomura himself expresses he wished to have put in the game and such. They are also written by someone who works closely with Nomura, and has written for the games, and Nomura even supervises whatever goes into the novels for the purposes of fitting canon.
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Okay, that's a reason I can accept for the note, so if my suggested content for the note is alright I will apply that unless there are some suggestions that could be added to it.
It should still mean that they are either significantly stronger than before or have some sort of method to deal with a higher level of strength that they didn't have before if prior feats put them significantly below said opponent. The only other possibilities I can think of in that context are the character in question either not caring about winning or losing the fight or them having abilities that make strength differences irrelevant both of which I can't really see being the case. Using the performance in the fight is a bit difficult since most of a fight in a video game is going to be gameplay though I'd argue that characters that aren't necessarily treated as effortlessly beaten shouldn't be considered as far weaker.
Bobsican
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Very late, but better than never.
Anyways, I've been working on this to showcase who scales to what multiplier-wise:
As I'm sure some placements may be out of place at first, I'll explain:
The ones at the very bottom don't really scale to any multiplier to begin with IIRC, that should be fine to keep as is.
Next up, Riku, Ansem and Roxas will clearly require three keys:
Riku: KHI-KHCoM | KHDays | KHII onwards
Roxas: KHDays | Post-Final Form Xion | KHII onwards
Ansem: KHI | KHCoM-KHDays | KH3D onwards
Ansem is a bit special, first, he scales to KHI Sora directly, then acts as the final boss of CoM to Riku, however, unlike Sora, Riku didn't have his powers reset, meaning that he kept becoming stronger constantly, and Riku sealed Ansem within himself, until he released his power to defeat post Final Form Xion Roxas. As Riku became stronger, so did his darkness, which is what allowed Ansem to become even stronger long term and upscale to KHII Sora by scaling to KH3D Riku.
Xion will require more keys, as she had an extra x1 multiplier per form, as discussed before, plus one for KHIII onwards as she can keep up with Roxas and Saix.
Xion: KHDays and First Form | Second Form | Third Form | Final Form | KHIII onwards
Then Saix scales to base late-game Roxas as he could keep a fight with him, then to KHII Sora as he becomes stronger to match him with the power of KH or so.
Saix: Base | Amped
Next up, the list is quite long, but fairly simpler:
Data-Sora: Comparable to KHI Sora, at least up to the point he got a real Keyblade, which is comparable to Mickey as together they defeated Sora's Heartless, and scales above Maleficent.
Sora: He's who the entire multiplier scaling comes from, so no need to reiterate the reasonings for them. In any case, KHI Sora is x1, and KHII onwards is x8.
Donald: Comparable to Sora constantly, so same as him.
Goofy: Same as Donald.
Axel: Can keep up with Sora in CoM and with (pre-forms) Xion in Days, his Absent Silhouette can fight Sora, Donald and Goofy in KHII, plus he did training in KH3D to keep up in KHIII.
Repliku: Scales to CoM Riku, which scales to KHI Sora, the second key comes from Xehanort's heart amping him in KHIII to keep up with others that already upscale to x8 KHI Sora (KHIII Sora, for example).
Marluxia, Larxene: Scales to KHCoM Sora, which is of the same level as KHI Sora, second key also comes from Xehanort's heart amping them to keep up with others.
Vexen, Zexion, Lexaeus: Scales to KHCoM Sora (Vexen) or Riku (Zexion, Lexaeus), which scales to KHI Sora, the second key comes from the Absent Silhouettes showcasing their capability to keep up with KHII Sora, Donald and Goofy, especially to remain consistent with Lexaeus being stated to be (unquantificably) above Xaldin.
Maleficent: Scales to KHI Sora, Donald and Goofy, second key comes from upscaling from Pete in KHII, who fought SDG, which fits considering she had some fighting between KHI and KHII in the events of Union X.
Aqua, Terra, Ventus: It may be weird for them to have this treatment, but I've noticed that it's more consistent this way, given that early on BbS they're on the level of (young) Lea, Hercules and Maleficent, and so they should be on the level of KHI Sora on the early-game of BbS, at around the part with Stitch (Which is before Neverland), they should be on x8 and all, which fits considering that the reason Unversed were around was to make Ventus stronger so he could keep up with Vanitas.
Xigbar: He should scale to x1 KHI Sora at around BbS to remain consistent with the scaling of Aqua, Terra and Ventus. Similarly, the second key goes late-game in the same manner by scaling to them.
Hercules, Hades: Scales to KHI Sora directly, then to KHII and so on, which fits considering we all know Herc keeps training to be stronger and so on.
Mulan, Mushu: Mushu scales to KHI Sora directly, alongside Mulan they scale to KHII Sora.
Simba: Scales to KHI Sora directly, then to KHII Sora while in his Lion form. KHIII is (unquantificably) above the KHII one.
Aladdin, Genie, Jafar: Scales directly to KHI Sora, then to KHII Sora. Jafar however only scales to KHI Sora, while Genie Jafar scales to KHII Sora.
Jack Skellington, Oogie Boogie: Scales directly to KHI Sora, then to KHII Sora.
Cloud, Leon, Yuffie: Scales directly to KHI Sora then KHII Sora because of the cups in Olympus Coliseum. If Aerith has a profile, it should be removed, from what I'm looking she's featless for our purposes and deserves an "Unknown" rating at most.
Beast: Scales to KHI Riku, which scales to KHI Sora. Beast can also keep a fight with Sora in KHII.
Pete: Fights Roxas and Xion in Days, then KHII Sora in KHII, also brings consistency to the post real Keybalde rating of Data-Sora, as he fights him too after that stuff in Coded.
Data-Sora: Pre-Real Keyblade | Post-Real Keyblade
Sora: KHI-KHCoM | KHII onwards
Donald, Goofy: KHBbS-KHCoM | KHII onwards
Axel: KHCoM-KHDays | KHII onwards
Repliku, Marluxia, Larxene: KHCoM | KHIII onwards
Vexen, Zexion, Lexaeus: KHCoM | KHII onwards
Maleficent: KHBbS-KHI | KHUX-KHCoded onwards
Aqua, Terra, Ventus: Early KHBbS | Late KHBbS onwards
Xigbar: Early KHBbS | Late KHBbS onwards
Hercules, Hades: KHBbS-KHI | KHII onwards
Mulan and Mushu: KHI (Mushu) | KHII onwards (Together)
Simba, Aladdin, Genie, Jack Skellington, Oogie Boogie, Cloud, Leon, Yuffie, Beast: KHI | KHII onwards
Jafar: Base | Genie
Pete: KHBbS - KHDays | KHII onwards
Now, for those that just scale to KHI Sora and nothing else:
Data-Riku: Scales to Data-Sora, who is comparable to KHI Sora.
Tarzan, Ariel, Ursula: Scales to KHI Sora.
Zack Fair: To remain consistent with the scaling for Aqua, Terra and Ventus, he should be on this level.
Prince Phillip: Scales to Maleficent.
(No need for keys here, lol)
Now, for those that just scale to KHII Sora and above:
Peter Pan, Captain Hook: Scales to end-game Terra, Ventus and KHII Sora, we already went over the KHI and CoM events being overall outlierish if anything.
Auron: Scales to KHII Hercules, which also scales to KHII Sora.
Master of Masters, Foretellers: Upscale from Player, who is by then at least on the level of KHIII characters as he inherits the powers of them with the medals.
Ephemer, Skuld, Brain: Scales to Player, who does the above.
Player: See above.
Odin, Hermod, Bragi, Urd, Vor, Baldr: Should at least scale to Maleficent given the latest trailer of Dark Road. That said, I'd rather hold on to the full release of it before doing profiles for them, as they can't scale to Young Xehanort either as that's after they've died or whatever.
Eraqus: Scales to Xehanort, and could put a fight to Terra.
Xehanort: Scales to Lingering Will, which upscales from KHII Sora.
Sephiroth: Scales above KHII Sora, although shouldn't be above Mickey per the statements.
Chirithy: Should be comparable to other Dream Eaters. Nightmare Chirithy could more than put a fight against Player right before the Keyblade War.
Meow Wow: Like other Dream Eaters, they come from Chirithies after they fused with the heart of their respective Keyblade wielder. Plus they scale to KH3D Sora and Riku, which are at least on the level of KHII Sora.
Neku Sakuraba: Scales to Dream Eaters.
Kairi: Scales to Lea, which scales to KHII Sora.
Yozora: Scales to KHIII Sora.
Mickey: Is stated to be the strongest character in KHI, and can keep up with Xehanort.
Stitch: Scales to KHII(I) Sora and upscales from Sparky, who could put a fight to late-BbS Terra.
Merlin: Is strong enought to be training Lea and Kairi, which scale to KHII Sora.
Yen Sid: Is regarded as the leader of the Guardians of Light, and trained Mickey. Could also notably help them in the KHIII Keyblade War.
Chicken Little: Scales to KHII Sora. Summons like him rely on a consistent power source from Sora, Drive Orbs, as it was discussed and accepted before.
Jack Sparrow: Scales to KHII(I) Sora.
Marshmallow: Scales to KHIII Sora.
Ralph: Scales to KHIII Sora and Player in Union X.
Xemnas: Scales to KHII Sora.
Young Xehanort: Scales to late-BbS Aqua.
Terra-Xehanort: Scales to Lingering Will, and is really just Xehanort in Terra's body.
Vanitas: Scales to late-BbS Ventus and Aqua.
Luxord, Xaldin, Demyx: Scales to KHII Sora.
Tifa: Can put a fight to KHII Sora in Olympus Coliseum.
Baymax: Scales directly to KHIII Sora.
(No need for new keys here, either)
Some characters may be missing, but this should help to have a consistent ground to develop on for other profiles. All Dream Eaters can scale to Meow Wow, Demon Tower scales to Mickey, etc.
I'm also aware that some of the above don't even have profiles yet, but futureproofing is wise to avoid issues in the future.
Anyways, I've been working on this to showcase who scales to what multiplier-wise:
As I'm sure some placements may be out of place at first, I'll explain:
The ones at the very bottom don't really scale to any multiplier to begin with IIRC, that should be fine to keep as is.
Next up, Riku, Ansem and Roxas will clearly require three keys:
Riku: KHI-KHCoM | KHDays | KHII onwards
Roxas: KHDays | Post-Final Form Xion | KHII onwards
Ansem: KHI | KHCoM-KHDays | KH3D onwards
Ansem is a bit special, first, he scales to KHI Sora directly, then acts as the final boss of CoM to Riku, however, unlike Sora, Riku didn't have his powers reset, meaning that he kept becoming stronger constantly, and Riku sealed Ansem within himself, until he released his power to defeat post Final Form Xion Roxas. As Riku became stronger, so did his darkness, which is what allowed Ansem to become even stronger long term and upscale to KHII Sora by scaling to KH3D Riku.
Xion will require more keys, as she had an extra x1 multiplier per form, as discussed before, plus one for KHIII onwards as she can keep up with Roxas and Saix.
Xion: KHDays and First Form | Second Form | Third Form | Final Form | KHIII onwards
Then Saix scales to base late-game Roxas as he could keep a fight with him, then to KHII Sora as he becomes stronger to match him with the power of KH or so.
Saix: Base | Amped
Next up, the list is quite long, but fairly simpler:
Data-Sora: Comparable to KHI Sora, at least up to the point he got a real Keyblade, which is comparable to Mickey as together they defeated Sora's Heartless, and scales above Maleficent.
Sora: He's who the entire multiplier scaling comes from, so no need to reiterate the reasonings for them. In any case, KHI Sora is x1, and KHII onwards is x8.
Donald: Comparable to Sora constantly, so same as him.
Goofy: Same as Donald.
Axel: Can keep up with Sora in CoM and with (pre-forms) Xion in Days, his Absent Silhouette can fight Sora, Donald and Goofy in KHII, plus he did training in KH3D to keep up in KHIII.
Repliku: Scales to CoM Riku, which scales to KHI Sora, the second key comes from Xehanort's heart amping him in KHIII to keep up with others that already upscale to x8 KHI Sora (KHIII Sora, for example).
Marluxia, Larxene: Scales to KHCoM Sora, which is of the same level as KHI Sora, second key also comes from Xehanort's heart amping them to keep up with others.
Vexen, Zexion, Lexaeus: Scales to KHCoM Sora (Vexen) or Riku (Zexion, Lexaeus), which scales to KHI Sora, the second key comes from the Absent Silhouettes showcasing their capability to keep up with KHII Sora, Donald and Goofy, especially to remain consistent with Lexaeus being stated to be (unquantificably) above Xaldin.
Maleficent: Scales to KHI Sora, Donald and Goofy, second key comes from upscaling from Pete in KHII, who fought SDG, which fits considering she had some fighting between KHI and KHII in the events of Union X.
Aqua, Terra, Ventus: It may be weird for them to have this treatment, but I've noticed that it's more consistent this way, given that early on BbS they're on the level of (young) Lea, Hercules and Maleficent, and so they should be on the level of KHI Sora on the early-game of BbS, at around the part with Stitch (Which is before Neverland), they should be on x8 and all, which fits considering that the reason Unversed were around was to make Ventus stronger so he could keep up with Vanitas.
Xigbar: He should scale to x1 KHI Sora at around BbS to remain consistent with the scaling of Aqua, Terra and Ventus. Similarly, the second key goes late-game in the same manner by scaling to them.
Hercules, Hades: Scales to KHI Sora directly, then to KHII and so on, which fits considering we all know Herc keeps training to be stronger and so on.
Mulan, Mushu: Mushu scales to KHI Sora directly, alongside Mulan they scale to KHII Sora.
Simba: Scales to KHI Sora directly, then to KHII Sora while in his Lion form. KHIII is (unquantificably) above the KHII one.
Aladdin, Genie, Jafar: Scales directly to KHI Sora, then to KHII Sora. Jafar however only scales to KHI Sora, while Genie Jafar scales to KHII Sora.
Jack Skellington, Oogie Boogie: Scales directly to KHI Sora, then to KHII Sora.
Cloud, Leon, Yuffie: Scales directly to KHI Sora then KHII Sora because of the cups in Olympus Coliseum. If Aerith has a profile, it should be removed, from what I'm looking she's featless for our purposes and deserves an "Unknown" rating at most.
Beast: Scales to KHI Riku, which scales to KHI Sora. Beast can also keep a fight with Sora in KHII.
Pete: Fights Roxas and Xion in Days, then KHII Sora in KHII, also brings consistency to the post real Keybalde rating of Data-Sora, as he fights him too after that stuff in Coded.
Data-Sora: Pre-Real Keyblade | Post-Real Keyblade
Sora: KHI-KHCoM | KHII onwards
Donald, Goofy: KHBbS-KHCoM | KHII onwards
Axel: KHCoM-KHDays | KHII onwards
Repliku, Marluxia, Larxene: KHCoM | KHIII onwards
Vexen, Zexion, Lexaeus: KHCoM | KHII onwards
Maleficent: KHBbS-KHI | KHUX-KHCoded onwards
Aqua, Terra, Ventus: Early KHBbS | Late KHBbS onwards
Xigbar: Early KHBbS | Late KHBbS onwards
Hercules, Hades: KHBbS-KHI | KHII onwards
Mulan and Mushu: KHI (Mushu) | KHII onwards (Together)
Simba, Aladdin, Genie, Jack Skellington, Oogie Boogie, Cloud, Leon, Yuffie, Beast: KHI | KHII onwards
Jafar: Base | Genie
Pete: KHBbS - KHDays | KHII onwards
Now, for those that just scale to KHI Sora and nothing else:
Data-Riku: Scales to Data-Sora, who is comparable to KHI Sora.
Tarzan, Ariel, Ursula: Scales to KHI Sora.
Zack Fair: To remain consistent with the scaling for Aqua, Terra and Ventus, he should be on this level.
Prince Phillip: Scales to Maleficent.
(No need for keys here, lol)
Now, for those that just scale to KHII Sora and above:
Peter Pan, Captain Hook: Scales to end-game Terra, Ventus and KHII Sora, we already went over the KHI and CoM events being overall outlierish if anything.
Auron: Scales to KHII Hercules, which also scales to KHII Sora.
Master of Masters, Foretellers: Upscale from Player, who is by then at least on the level of KHIII characters as he inherits the powers of them with the medals.
Ephemer, Skuld, Brain: Scales to Player, who does the above.
Player: See above.
Odin, Hermod, Bragi, Urd, Vor, Baldr: Should at least scale to Maleficent given the latest trailer of Dark Road. That said, I'd rather hold on to the full release of it before doing profiles for them, as they can't scale to Young Xehanort either as that's after they've died or whatever.
Eraqus: Scales to Xehanort, and could put a fight to Terra.
Xehanort: Scales to Lingering Will, which upscales from KHII Sora.
Sephiroth: Scales above KHII Sora, although shouldn't be above Mickey per the statements.
Chirithy: Should be comparable to other Dream Eaters. Nightmare Chirithy could more than put a fight against Player right before the Keyblade War.
Meow Wow: Like other Dream Eaters, they come from Chirithies after they fused with the heart of their respective Keyblade wielder. Plus they scale to KH3D Sora and Riku, which are at least on the level of KHII Sora.
Neku Sakuraba: Scales to Dream Eaters.
Kairi: Scales to Lea, which scales to KHII Sora.
Yozora: Scales to KHIII Sora.
Mickey: Is stated to be the strongest character in KHI, and can keep up with Xehanort.
Stitch: Scales to KHII(I) Sora and upscales from Sparky, who could put a fight to late-BbS Terra.
Merlin: Is strong enought to be training Lea and Kairi, which scale to KHII Sora.
Yen Sid: Is regarded as the leader of the Guardians of Light, and trained Mickey. Could also notably help them in the KHIII Keyblade War.
Chicken Little: Scales to KHII Sora. Summons like him rely on a consistent power source from Sora, Drive Orbs, as it was discussed and accepted before.
Jack Sparrow: Scales to KHII(I) Sora.
Marshmallow: Scales to KHIII Sora.
Ralph: Scales to KHIII Sora and Player in Union X.
Xemnas: Scales to KHII Sora.
Young Xehanort: Scales to late-BbS Aqua.
Terra-Xehanort: Scales to Lingering Will, and is really just Xehanort in Terra's body.
Vanitas: Scales to late-BbS Ventus and Aqua.
Luxord, Xaldin, Demyx: Scales to KHII Sora.
Tifa: Can put a fight to KHII Sora in Olympus Coliseum.
Baymax: Scales directly to KHIII Sora.
(No need for new keys here, either)
Some characters may be missing, but this should help to have a consistent ground to develop on for other profiles. All Dream Eaters can scale to Meow Wow, Demon Tower scales to Mickey, etc.
I'm also aware that some of the above don't even have profiles yet, but futureproofing is wise to avoid issues in the future.
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Yet another thread where I wasn't a staff member the last time I commented.
Bobsican
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Would it be better if I just included you in a separate "recently became staff" section or so? It'd be quite late for that anyways, but still.
In any case, your input does remain as valuable as the one of a staff member, you were quite reliable even before that and all.
In any case, your input does remain as valuable as the one of a staff member, you were quite reliable even before that and all.
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There is no need for that. I just felt like noting that since it still feels weird. I'm aware that I'm currently a staff member and that this isn't lessened by me only recently becoming one. Also, it's nice to hear that I was reliable.
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What do you think about the following post?
What do you think about the following post?
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I'm assuming the tier list above is for the part of the multipliers and scaling that was already accepted in this thread, no? It's explained well enough and I don't see anything wrong with it and since KH1 Peter Pan and Captain Hook are outlier it makes sense they aren't on it so I'm not spotting anything really amiss here but I'd say the other staff are much more knowledgeable than me and can offer better opinions on this
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