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King of the Skies VS the God of War

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Doppo is weaker but a skilled fighter. That said, Rathalos, while just essentially a dragon untrained in combat, is skilled in combat in their own right, using their advantages to make the most of a fighting style.

Doppo does hold the speed advantage but not to a blitzing degree. That said, Rathalos rofls in terms of other abilities, notably with his lethal poison.

So I suppose I vote Rathalos. Doppo's speed doesn't outclass the advantages held by Rathalos.
 
Ok, 1 vote for Rathalos;

side note: Doppo's Mawashi Uke negates aoe attacks if that changes anything
 
I mean

That's a vague statement but no, the best thing Rathalos has is poison via contact with tails and claws
 
Mawashi Uke is a hand rotation defense technique that dispels fire and other attacks similar to it if that helps clarify.

His posion doesn't really do that much though, just kinda chips away at his health
 
This is a tough one for sure. Doppo is losing out on raw power but not by much. It would take a few hits before he goes down. I think if Doppo uses Sangan he might be able to take it. With Sangan and Mawashi Uke he can easily redirect the fire and parry Rathalos's talons so he doesn't get poisoned. At that point it's just deal enough damage to bring him down. Which with Doppo's insane stamina shouldn't be an issue. I'll go Doppo for now.
 
Anttron224 said:
Mawashi Uke is a hand rotation defense technique that dispels fire and other attacks similar to it if that helps clarify.
His posion doesn't really do that much though, just kinda chips away at his health
Click to expand...
Poison can absolutely be lethal regardless of how the game's mechanics treat it though, and Doppo lacks access to any antidotes that would keep the Hunter alive.
 
Fair point. But it should be noted that Baki resisted Ryuukou Yanagi's poison for days via sheer strength and willpower, and at this point in the story Doppo was stronger than Baki.
 
The poison won't even affect Doppo if it doesn't enter his body. With Sangan he can parry any attempts from Rathalos to poison him. The slight power gap won't make it hard for Doppo to parry with Sangan either as he was capable of parrying the strikes of a semi serious Yujiro.
 
How can he parry if Rathalos has a better lifting strength than him (>Class 100 is better than Unknown)
 
I guess I'm repeating myself. The power gap won't make it hard for Doppo to parry with Sangan either as he was capable of parrying the strikes of a semi serious Yujiro.

Doppo wasn't even capable of harming a casual Yujiro in their fight, but was able to parry strikes from a semi serious Yujiro using Sangan. Showing that the power gap has to be pretty big for Sangan to lose its effectiveness.
 
But to parry is to actually push back. It isn't based on attack potency but rather actual lifting strength which Doppo outright doesn't have. So that point is literally impossible to prove on your end with an Unknown lifting strength, ergo, he cannot parry.
 
Yeah, I understand it that doppo's ability to Parry things could help, but Rathalos has not only an AP advantage, but an advantage in lifting strength and technically striking strength. Doppo would struggle to push away these attacks that surpass his own capabilities, therefore limiting its effectiveness overall. Hell, even if we scaled Doppo to be comparable to Yujiro lifting strength, his Lifting Strength would only be at BEST Class 50, whereas Rathalos is Class 100 and therefore easily twice as strong as Doppo's lifting strength. And given that Doppo is still notably weaker than Yujiro, Class 50 is a VERY generous ranking.

With that in mind, Rathalos still has a range advantage and can fly. While it's more within the nature of Azure Rathalos to stay in the air and pepper enemies with fire, a normal Rathalos could easily do the same and has shown that it can do the same.

Not only that but on Doppo's profile it literally says that he struggles against vicious and really aggressive enemies, and Rathalos is exactly that. Plus, while Doppo had enough power to kill an adult tiger, his fighting style is still geared more to fighting people rather than monsters/animals, meaning that most of his specific techniques won't really work as they are meant for use on people.

So yeah, I vote Rathalos due to range advantage, aerial mobility that allows him to stay out of Doppo's range, AP advantage, poison that will absolutely wear down Doppo if he is afflicted with it and the fact that Doppo's main method of defense, the Mawashi Uke, probably would not work here as stated above. Only real edge that Doppo has is speed and even then that won't be enough to carry him.
 
Doppo's defiantly not gonna have a huge problem with the lifting strength like you say. I believe the lifting strengths of Baki also have to get revised then if they are only class 50. Oliva casually can lift the weight of a Sikorsky CH-53 I believe it says in his profile which has a full weight of 33,000 kilograms. It's Oliva and he's always trying to push himself to the max so the maximum weight should be used. Then we find out in Baki Dou that he's amped up his weight routine to match his full power so 33,000kg is actually his casual lifting strength. His full strength is probably double his casual strength at the very least. Then Yujiro is capable of matching Oliva in his Base casually. So Yujiro is at least 66,000kg for lifting strength. Doppo parried the attacks of a Yujiro that was actually trying rather than a casual Yujiro. I'm not saying Rathalos's attacks wouldn't be hard to parry but he's not gonna get overwhelmed right away when he has zero difficulty blocking someone with At Least 66,000kg of lifting strength.

Also Doppo does not struggle against vicious and aggressive enemies. Yujiro specifically used an aggressive style of fighting against Doppo called beast pummelling and Doppo took it without an issue using Sangan. Sangan effectively stops that weakness as long as it's active.

I'm still sticking with Doppo, his superior speed combined with ability to parry attacks from those stronger than himself is a killer combo. Yujiro was faster than Doppo and even then he parried just fine. Against a fighter slower than him it'd be even easier as he could avoid the full force of the attack as well.

Doppo is also incredibly skilled and able to adapt to just about any situation. He's a 10th dan in Karate and Retsu said himself that the only people in the entire verse equally skilled or more skilled than Doppo, was Baki, Shibukawa, Kaku Kaioh and ofc Yujiro. He even knows how to use other martial arts with incredible proficiency. He's shown that he can use both Sumo and Chinese Kenpo before. Basically there's nothing this guy can't find a way to counter.
 
It says Unknown. 33,000 kg is Class 50. 66,000 is above that but not by much and consider the fact that Tetsucabra's lifting strength is upscaled from in the same sense that the strength of a WWE steroid addict is upscaled from a cockroach. Tetsucabra is a fodder enemy for the most part compared to Rathalos, who is unironically one of the strongest pre-Low 6-B monsters in the franchise. Furthermore, parry or not, the poison is contact based, who cares if he parries so long as it touches him.

'kay.

I figured you would.

What a broad and vague statement. "This guy can counter anything because he can adapt" isn't something I see debated much very often, I wonder if you could give several examples of him adapting to a giant fire breathing poison bastard dragon.
 
Calm down there buddy we're just having a debate.

Does the poison affect if it doesn't get into the body? Because then that's a different story. Although if it has to enter the body then the argument still stands.

Doppo has adapted to fighting animals, notably a tiger, one that was starving and one that wasn't. Then we saw his ability to match Yujiro when he tried using ancient unseen abilities and then match him again when he switched to a more aggressive animalistic style. When Muhammad Ali Jr's boxing proved to be a direct counter to Doppo Shinshinkai Karate he instantly pulled out a Chinese Kenpo move that directly countered Jr. And let's not forget of when he used Mawashi Uke to redirect the flames shot at him by Dorian despite being caught off guard when it happened.

Is that enough for you?
 
What? Wdym?

It just batters the Hunter and they get poisoned. If it were just claws I'd argue it has to enter the veins but it's on the tail of all places.

A tiger isn't quite like a flying tiger, really. Nor are any of the others. Quite different, even.
 
I mean the inherent flaw in scaling Doppo to Yujiro or Oliva is that Doppo is, from what I recall, clearly weaker than both of them and therefore is by default weaker than whatever those two are capable of. I only made reference to this as a result of there being no other definitive way to find Lifting Strength for the character. Besides, considering that Yujiro wasn't really trying that hard to fight Doppo, we could just as easily take his Class 25 Lifting Strength and somehow apply that to Doppo, which is still far lower than what Rathalos is capable of.

And again, Doppo's profile states that he has weakness to more aggressive and vicious enemies. If you think that's not that case, you can certainly make a CRT to get that changed. But as it stands now, it's still a point that can be brought up.

Poison is contact based. Like, the Hunter can use a shield to block the poison attacks, but that's a shield, an inanimate object that can not be poisoned. Even when wearing full-body armor, however, if the Hunter gets hit by one of the poisonous attacks, they get poisoned.

Not only that but despite the claim of "Basically there's nothing this guy can't find a way to counter", he has no counter for when Rathalos just flies into the air and out of reach. He has to wait for Rath to come down or focus entirely on avoiding the fireballs. And even IF Doppo were able to parry the fireballs, he'd still have no way of hitting or hurting Rathalos when he is in the air.

And again, everything Doppo does is made for the purposes of fighting and beating humans. Even if he has high adaptability, a large chunk of his arsenal is by default rendered useless due to the simple fact that Rath isn't a human, but is actually an extremely large wyvern with anatomy that is completely different from any animal living in the Baki-Universe.

On top of all this, we haven't even really brought up Rathalos' rage mode, where he becomes more aggressive and stronger as a result of anger, which would further solidify the AP lead even if only by a little bit.
 
2 votes for Rathalos

Note: They are in the maximum tournament arena, in which Rathalos can lift itself off of the ground, but due to it being underground the height of the arena doesn't allow for it to stay out of reach, and Mawashi Uke negates fire attacks and other projectiles.
 
[[1]] That arena is 100 feet high and actually quite massive as pointed out by Baki himself, who is incredibly familiar with this arena. I don't think Doppo can really deal with that, and the only reason Baki and Pickle got that high was because of Pickle's ridiculous physical prowess, which Doppo most certainly does not have and therefore won't be able to reach.

Parry still wouldn't work due to the massive difference in Lifting Strength when it comes to physical attacks. And again, even then, Rathalos can just sit in the air and pelt Doppo with nonstop fireballs and fire breath. Even IF Doppo were able to parry these things successfully, he again would not be able to even touch Rath whereas Rath could eventually get Doppo as he is the only one with ranged attacks.

Also Rathalos can induce Stun on a target, thus leaving them open to other attacks. If/When Doppo is inflicted with Stun, Rathalos will be able to get even more clear shots in on him. And again, rage mode increases strength, speed and durability meaning that Doppo's attacks will deal even less damage.
 
Mawashi Uke isn't a parry and Doppo is Hypersonic+ in this key, so dodging the fireballs and negating the occasinal close shot with MU isn't an issue. Also, I've never played a Monster Hunter game where Rathalos just stay in the air fire ball spams until you're dead. It's usually like 3-4 shots then it comes down and attacks on the ground.
 
Just to clarify, we were more referring to Sangan being a Parry (as that is basically what it does, based on the fight between Doppo and Yujiro. He's making his eyes glance about in every direction to better perceive incoming attacks to which he can then try to parry). That's why a big part of this debate has been centered around Lifting Strength, as Doppo's Lifting Strength WAY below Rathalos' Lifting Strength, and therefore he'd be unable to properly push Rathalos' attacks out of the way regardless of his heightened speed.

And Doppo is only at Hypersonic+ when he uses Sangan according to his profile, which is a technique that he only ever used once anyway. At every other instance, it's going to be Supersonic vs Supersonic+. Rath still has AP, Dura and Lifting Strength advantage, which is further solidified by his Rage state. Poison is still contact based so as soon as Rath's claws touches Doppo he's poisoned and will take even more damage. Rathalos's roars can and has caused Hunters stronger than Doppo to stop in their tracks and recoil from it, as well as Stun still being an issue for Doppo.

Rath's fire attacks also still leave fireblight on anything that is hit by or even touches its fire attacks btw, meaning that even if Doppo can nullify an entire fire ball with Mawashi Uke, there is still a good chance that he'll be inflicted with fireblight afterwards and still start receiving even more bits of damage.
 
Then if he uses it to try and parry Rath's poison attacks, even if he is able to successfully parry the attack itself, he still gets poisoned as it is poison on contact.
 
Fair point, but this poison is expected to work on monsters the size of a couple of houses. The poison may be slightly more potent when you consider that.

Also Doppo doesn't have resistance to poison and that doesn't quite sound like something that would scale to brute strength.
 
I believe that they are probably of a similar potency, considering Rathalos' affects large monsters in a short amount of time and chips away at their life, and Yanagi's affects humans almost instantly (Excluding people like Baki and Doppo of course) and causes organ failure and a withered state.

Note: I wanted to say fair point (Because it's true) but I think that it would've sounded rude so you get this note instead.
 
But either way your guy doesn't resist poison, another character in the series does. You'd still be incorrect, since that isn't what poison does and it's been shown to work on the Hunter the same way it works on monsters so that's just how the poison works.

Either way. Rathalos poisons.
 
Idk know completely how it worked, I just know that he was supposed to die in seconds and instead he powered through it and lasted about a week or two and even fought in a tournament until another poison hand user cured him, so in this case it should scale to strength. It wouldn't be the first time Grappler Baki ignored science.
 
Why should it scale to strength? Baki has shown the ability of, say, breathing fire out of his left ear. So anyone stronger would inherently possess that ability for no reason other than why not?

It doesn't matter either way, I must make this clear, but why push that point? It doesn't make any sense.
 
Because the only reason he was able to slow the effects of the poison was raw strength and willpower
 
I know it doesn't make sense but it's how Baki works. People just power through things with raw strength.
 
This all seems highly questionable

Either way, poison > resistance so moving on
 
Even Doyle resisted the poison via strength (He still lost his eyes) and he's weaker than Baki and Doppo
 
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