King Hassan VS Ainz Ooal Gown

[Monarch_Laciel]

Two hax Skeleton heads with a penchant for instant death attacks face off

Grand Assassi VS Supreme Being

Speed Equalised

Battle takes place in a dark forest.

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

Ainz immune to all kind of Instant death. But King Hassan Instant kill attack its potent enough to remove the concept of "resistance" of Ainz'. Its hard to say which who would win in equal ground. But Ainz' Timestop is enough to wreck King Hassan mercilessly.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Hassan's Evening Bell class skill nulls resistances to instant death attacks, and Azrael is based around concept manipulation and fate manipulation, so I very much doubt that Ainz's resistances would be enough against it. At the Boundary also makes Hassan immune to insta-death

Time stop is a good reason though

Ainz: 1

Hassan: 0

 

[FDrybob]

Ainz is a very cautious combatant. Straight away he would use the big guns: grasp heart (which still stuns any opponent who resists it), timestop, and other high level magic. As Ainz's magic is of the highest order possible in his world (and even uses multiple verses), I'd wager it's enough to surpass Hassan's resistance. Ainz has over 700 spells. He can summon angels and undead almost as strong as him, use fire and holy magic, fly (does Hassan have any way to counter flight?), cut through space, produce black hole-like vortexes, and many more hax. Also, in a pinch, he will use TGOALID. It removes all immunities to death magic, and works like Hassan's evening bell in the way that it can kill those without a concept of death, but on a much higher scale (when he used it with an AoE attack, it even "killed" the air and earth around him, making it poisonous). It is clearly stated that it is impossible to resist it in any way, and that the only way to survive once effected by it is to resurrect yourself. They have very similar abilities, but Ainz has hax that break hax, so I think he wins with high difficulty.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Hassan can casually kill abstract concepts like space and distance, so I doubt flight will help much

Ainz: 2

Hassan: 0

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

Hassan can casually kill abstract concepts like space and distance, so I doubt flight will help much
Ainz: 2

Hassan: 0

Isn't speed equalized? If King Hassan permitted to do that. Than Ainz should be permitted to us Teleportation.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Speed being equalised doesn't affect teleportation or destroying concepts of distance, so they can both do that.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

PC menas Hassan will get a sneak attack, and assuming he uses Azrael immediately he wins by using concept and fate manipulation to remove Ainz and his continual existence from time.

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

PC menas Hassan will get a sneak attack, and assuming he uses Azrael immediately he wins by using concept and fate manipulation to remove Ainz and his continual existence from time.

Assuming Ainz use buff spell too like "sense life" or "Life Essence" which can determine another life force through color in the same manner as "Mana Essence" like Shalltear does. he can detect him before he initiate that attack. And it will even not working i f Ainz use Complete Invisibility plus Perfect Unknownable before Hassan initiate sneaking attack. And Instead Ainz himself use sneak attack.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

King Hassan always starts in PC, so Ainz wouldn't even know that he should use the tracking spells, the moment the tries to do that King Hassan would have already removed Ainz and his continual existence from time.

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

What is this PC stand for? and do you assume Ainz will just stand idly without doing nothing? it needs time for Hassan to close the distant since speed is equalised, that mean Ainz can react and teleport out of the way from Hassan's grasp and then use Complete invisibility and perfect unknownable. After that he use barrage of buff spells before engage again.

Even if Hassan try to teleport, there is Delay Teleportation waiting for him. And to cut concept. He need to see the victim or atleast close to him like when he cut romani comunication. Ainz with Complete Invisibility and Perfect Unknownable will be equal if not higher than Hassan Presence concealment will just black hole him out of way or use Time stop before anything happen and crush his head with Gravity Maelstrom or Hellflame.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

PC (Presence Concealment) on King Hassan's level is basically perfect unknownable + Complete invisible X100

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

King Hassan is in PC before the fight even begins, so Ainz wouldn't know that he is going to fight someone before it's too late.

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

x100? here a little bit info about Ainz Presence Concealment

complete Invisibility: It was a spell that was far superior to 'Invisibility'. Ainz would be completely invisible to anyone unless they used specialized magic to see him. The highest-ranked undead couldn't even see through this spell's effect.


Perfect Unknownable: It erased one's traces and sounds, making the magic caster very difficult to detect if they did not have very high-level thief-type job classes.


And this is Hassan's PC as you call:


Presence Concealment is the Skill to erase one's own presence. It is the vestige of an ability he learned long ago. The swordsman bears a powerful curse which makes his presence known those whom he will kill next, even if he achieves a perfect success on a check to conceal himself

And do take a note that Hassan has A instead of A+ because of his curse, and he will reveal himself when he decides to attack.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Actually, Hassan's would be superior to any other member of the Hassassins, which includes F/SF Assassin's EX rank that makes his presence one with the world, so it becomes completely impossible to detect him. The reason King Hassan has it as A rank is because despite how incredibly good it is, that curse makes it so he will always be detected in the moment he attacks

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

And use PC as excuse to instant win like that is NFL because Ainz can also just Time Stop fr o m the beginning without Hassan even react. His PC is not Gae Bolg who always strike first.

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

Actually, Hassan's would be superior to any other member of the Hassassins, which includes F/SF Assassin's EX rank that makes his presence one with the world, so it becomes completely impossible to detect him. The reason King Hassan has it as A rank is because despite how incredibly good it is, that curse makes it so he will always be detected in the moment he attacks

Yep, and that curse will still lingering within him unless NAsu say otherwise. and we use canon King Hassan right?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Yeah the curse is still there. I'm just saying that there's no way Ainz could know Hassan is there until the moment he attacks

Also, it isn't a NLF. Ainz would have no reason to use time stop when he doesn't even know he's in a fight, while King Hassan is always in PC to begin with.

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

Actually, Hassan's would be superior to any other member of the Hassassins, which includes F/SF Assassin's EX rank that makes his presence one with the world, so it becomes completely impossible to detect him. The reason King Hassan has it as A rank is because despite how incredibly good it is, that curse makes it so he will always be detected in the moment he attacks

wait, in F/SF is jack the ripper not one of Hassassin. So invalid

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

Yeah the curse is still there. I'm just saying that there's no way Ainz could know Hassan is there until the moment he attacks
Also, it isn't a NLF. Ainz would have no reason to use time stop when he doesn't even know he's in a fight, while King Hassan is always in PC to begin with.

What are you saying? you already said from begginning they are fighting! so you mean Hassa n already know he is fighting while Ainz not?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Ainz would have to react at the last second and teleport out and cast a teleportation slow on King Hassan before using his own Presence concealment in order to win. While Hassan just needs to sneak up on him. If Ainz manages to teleport he cuts down the concept of distance and kills Ainz, or he cuts the concept of distance beforehand and then Azrael Ainz out of time.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Jack the StRipper is an assassin in F/A. Jack the Ripper is the berserker in F/SF

Hassan-i-Sabbah is the assassin in F/SF

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Also F/SF assassin isn't Jack the Ripper.... Its a Hassan. Jack is the berserker.

EDIT: Ninjad

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Yeah the curse is still there. I'm just saying that there's no way Ainz could know Hassan is there until the moment he attacks
Also, it isn't a NLF. Ainz would have no reason to use time stop when he doesn't even know he's in a fight, while King Hassan is always in PC to begin with.

What are you saying? you already said from begginning they are fighting! so you mean Hassa n already know he is fighting while Ainz not?

Standard Battle Assumptions. No prior knowledge. They know they need to kill the other. When the enemy is standing in front of you, you know the fight has begun. When you can't even tell there is an enemy in front of you, you don't

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Also,

Ainz: 2

Hassan: 1

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Nasuverse Presence Concealment is just a Perfect Unknownable + Perfect Invisibility anyway, with the only difference is that PC start to wear off if the user attack. And judging by Perfect Unknownable's description, its really not something special considering all Hassan can do that without even resorting to use PC anyway. Even Kuzuki, whos only a human and not an assassin at Hassan caliber and doesn't even has PC can achieve that via technique alone

 

[FDrybob]

I would argue that Ainz can sense Hassan through his presence concealment, if not then it should at least be impossible to prove either way. Ainz has a passive race skill that lets him sense all undead beings around him. There's no way of knowing which of the two would win out in sneaking around, so we should be arguing other things.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Hassan isn't undead though, so Ainz's skill isn't working. Also, Servants can sense each other's presences, and PC bypasses that too.

And it isn't who would win in sneaking around that is being argued here. It's whether Ainz could and would (the two are not the same) sense Hassan

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Like Monarch Said that passive skill would be useless, and his other tracking spells would also be useless as he wouldn't even activate them when he doesn't know that he is in a fight.

The way I see the "Fight" is Ainz would be walking around the forest he would hear "beheadÔöüAzrael!", at which point Ainz would be dead. If Ainz somehow manages to teleport before he gets hit Hassan can just teleport after him and sever his fate.

 

[Dura_Lex_Sed_Lex]

You guys have a misunderstanding on the assasin's class PC it is true that their hiding capability is superb but that doesn't mean it's undetectable even if they are in hiding , just like how Iskandar notice the presence of hassasins while they are drinking or like how Archer emiya is still noticed Li Shuyen's Sphere Boundary which is the perfect form of PC that completely erases his presence and becoming one with his surrounding. There is always a method where one can instinctly detect the killing intent or trace their presence while in PC and undead which have a natural instinct to detect life would have no problem sensing hassan nearby.

While on the other hand Ainz concealment ability and spells require special prerequisites to be detected which Hassan lacks as such Ainz would win this battle

 

[Sieghart.chaser]

You guys have a misunderstanding on the assasin's class PC it is true that their hiding capability is superb but that doesn't mean it's undetectable even if they are in hiding , just like how Iskandar notice the presence of hassasins while they are drinking or like how Archer emiya is still noticed Li Shuyen's Sphere Boundary which is the perfect form of PC that completely erases his presence and becoming one with his surrounding. There is always a method where one can instinctly detect the killing intent or trace their presence while in PC and undead which have a natural instinct to detect life would have no problem sensing hassan nearby.
While on the other hand Ainz concealment ability and spells require special prerequisites to be detected which Hassan lacks as such Ainz would win this battle

You're right. They just assume Hassan will just use Azrael on Ainz in the first turn like Hassan know everyhting about Ainz. like his fight with Ramses. He even din;t bother to finish him after decacipate his head despite knowing his tetris reality marble ability and not even straight using Azrael. And assuming he just use Azrael on Ainz in the first turn also implied Ainz can just use Time Stop from the beginning or like use Wish upon star from the beginning.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Hassan didn't use Azrael on Ozymandias because he didn't want to kill him. The fact that he did not use Azrael proves that, seeing as he isn't exactly unwilling to use it. The attack was a warning, nothing more, nothing less. Here, Hassan is willing and ready to kill. Why would he not use Azrael?

And Ramesses and Fab aren't assuming that Hassan knows everything about Ainz. They are assuming what his most likely first course of action would be, regardless of what he knows or does not know about Ainz

 

[FDrybob]

Well, Ainz's opening move is grasp heart, which stuns the enemy for a short time if it fails to kill them. In that time, he uses timestop + [delay magic] any of his numerous spells.

 

[Zettaizero]

You are saying that Hassan would win if he used Azrael on the get go but that would be a very bad move as activating a noble phantasm requires to sing an aria which will leaks mana on the environment giving his position to Ainz. Giving such an opening would invite death easily otherwise unless you are going to tell me that Azrael is already in the fight then that would be the same as if Ainz summoned Cherubims , Death Knights , High Tier undeads or El Shiggurath which would easily wreck Azrael

 

[FDrybob]

You are saying that Hassan would win if he used Azrael on the get go but that would be a very bad move as activating a noble phantasm requires to sing an aria which will leaks mana on the environment giving his position to Ainz. Giving such an opening would invite death easily otherwise unless you are going to tell me that Azrael is already in the fight then that would be the same as if Ainz summoned Cherubims , Death Knights , High Tier undeads or El Shiggurath which would easily wreck Azrael

Not entirely sure what you mean, but yes, I am saying that Ainz would win.

 

[Zettaizero]

You are saying that Hassan would win if he used Azrael on the get go but that would be a very bad move as activating a noble phantasm requires to sing an aria which will leaks mana on the environment giving his position to Ainz. Giving such an opening would invite death easily otherwise unless you are going to tell me that Azrael is already in the fight then that would be the same as if Ainz summoned Cherubims , Death Knights , High Tier undeads or El Shiggurath which would easily wreck Azrael

Not entirely sure what you mean, but yes, I am saying that Ainz would win.

I meant the argue of Monarch on my comment

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Actually, all Hassan has to do is say "Azrael" to use it. He doesn't need to say the whole thing.

What are you meaning by "unless you are going to tell me that Azrael is already in the fight then that would be the same as if Ainz summoned Cherubims , Death Knights , High Tier undeads or El Shiggurath which would easily wreck Azrael" - If you are saying that because Hassan starts in PC, Ainz should start with all his summons, no. Hassan is always in PC. Its a passive ability of his, and he would start with it. Ainz does not walk around everywhere with his summons, nor is there prep time for him to do the summon before the battle, so he would not start with it.

Also, I'm not arguing for either of them. Just correcting and clarifying ary misconceptions or incorrect info

 

[Reppuzan]

Very few Servants actually say anything other than their Noble Phantasm's name when activating them, and the quotes are just there to sound cool. For example, Lancer only has to say Gae Bolg and Saber just yells Excalibur.

Does Ainz have a defense against having his concept destroyed and his fate rewritten?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He does not, but he needs to actually be hit by Azrael for that to happen.

 

[FDrybob]

Does Ainz have a defense against having his concept destroyed and his fate rewritten?

Ainz's grasp heart stun + timestop + [hold species] or any immobilizing spell would give him enough time to fight back. Unlike high-level Yggdrasil enemies, Hassan seems to have little resistance to complete immobilization, which would make it far more useful to Ainz than it normally is. From there, any powerful spell would do a lot. [Thousand Bone Lance] or [Obsidian Sword], for example, wouldn't trigger Hassan's magic resistance as they create physical objects.