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Probably beating someone up
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Kenganverse General Discussion Board
- Thread starter Solacis
- Start date
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tru
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I am not even sure he{d need to practice. Raian was one of the biggest bids you could make for the tournament, despite the fact it is made clear Raian wasn't willing and never even tried actually using any Kure techniques, merely overwhelming by pure statistical superiority.PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
Though with the span of time, Karla participating wouldn't be impossible. The Elder did mention her amount of removal was "outstanding for her age", so is likely she has gone even farther by now.
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It'd be interesting if Raian returns to the Kengan world with his same attitude, but even stronger than before. It would kinda oppose Erioh's journey to the top by choosing to remain stuck in his ways. What would be even better would be if Edward Wu actually end up being stronger than Raian even when he goes all out.
This would force Raian into a dilemma similar to the one he faced against Ohma. But it would be reversed, where instead, Raian is the one being overpowered, with his only choice being having faith in his martial arts or stick to his guns. It would be a nice little test of character for him.
But if we get Karla, we can see if all the hype she had in Ashura would merit something also there could be a flashback with her mom to give us some Dumbbell cameos
This would force Raian into a dilemma similar to the one he faced against Ohma. But it would be reversed, where instead, Raian is the one being overpowered, with his only choice being having faith in his martial arts or stick to his guns. It would be a nice little test of character for him.
But if we get Karla, we can see if all the hype she had in Ashura would merit something
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Raian surely must've been training in the two years time skip and he will surely come back in Omega given how he was teased a few chapters ago. What I'd like to, however, is to see the other clan members in action.
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I wanna see that Old Man Kure in the wheelchair whoop some ass.
Old timer was seen invading the Yamashita house and fighting off Guardians, you know he ain't afraid to throw hands.
Old timer was seen invading the Yamashita house and fighting off Guardians, you know he ain't afraid to throw hands.
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Low key I think Reichi is the strongest Kure member
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You know, after looking over the explanation for Kure Removal, I think the boost it more than 70%. From the way the Kure treats the boost, as shown by the clan members who can release less than 30%, I think they treat it as going from 0% to 100%, depending on the Removal rate.
This would majorly change the AP ratings for top tiers
This would majorly change the AP ratings for top tiers
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I'm not following you.
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Also, Waka should get High 8-C with Kicking Power (3x stronger than his normal Punching Power which is >>>1.6 tons) and Blast Core (Literally his most powerful move) and probably High 8-C dura since he stood up after Ohma's Demonsbane (Took Ohma's power combined to his Blast Core).
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I was also thinking we give High 8-C ratings to Unrestricted Ohma with Advance, Kuroki, Kanoh Agito, Gaolang and likely High 8-C to Hatsumi scaling from Ohma with Advance & Waka.
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Basically, going off how the Kure Removal has been presented, Raian at his lowest levels of strength should Building level. His multiplier he gets from Removal should be more than 3.33 since he's presumably starting from 0% to 100% rather than going from 30 to 100.
We know this since some Kure clan members have shown that they can release 19% or less. This doesn't make sense since they follow the notion that normal people only use 30% of their true power normally. So what this means is that they're not starting from the normal percentages.
Also agreed on Large Buildings level
We know this since some Kure clan members have shown that they can release 19% or less. This doesn't make sense since they follow the notion that normal people only use 30% of their true power normally. So what this means is that they're not starting from the normal percentages.
Also agreed on Large Buildings level
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Oh, so High 8-C Raian like it used to be back in the day?
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Making a crt rn
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We can probably just talk about it here
And probably, depends on the new multiplier
And probably, depends on the new multiplier
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Just for the High 8-C since the "new" multiplier gets 8-B results
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Rather than a CRT, some sort of questions thread or something else to discuss and ask other people what they think should work. I do agree 3.33x doesn't work and I always found really weird the lower percentages using the logic we use now. Though what partly came to mind is that the percentage corresponds to the percentage of released power. Like, take the 100% power of a being, and divide it in 30 and 70 %. Then, let's say 70% is 3 tons to spit a number. 20% release would be a fifth of 3 tons, 50% a half, 100 the full 3 tons added to your usual AP.
At least that is how it feels when I try to think of it logically. The base power, after all, should stay the same because you aren't releasing the 30% of power, you already have that from step 1.
At least that is how it feels when I try to think of it logically. The base power, after all, should stay the same because you aren't releasing the 30% of power, you already have that from step 1.
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The Hypersonic Akoya calc seems to be discussed in the comment section
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Whelp, looks like we may lose the hypersonic calc. RIP.
Anyone mind making the CRT for the Kure's then?
Anyone mind making the CRT for the Kure's then?
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Already responded to that in my response.
If these guys can predict bullets but still get blitzed by other people then speed should scale.
If these guys can predict bullets but still get blitzed by other people then speed should scale.
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Except that argument doesn't hold up when Pre-Movement is an Agito/Kuroki thing, Akoya has nothing similar at all, just his super reflexes.Xulrev said:
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It also doesn't hold up when we don't see when Akoya moved in relation to the gun going off, though. It's AN ENORMOUS presumption to make that he moved post-firing instead of when the twitchy, panicky person was going to pull the trigger.LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
My comment, however, was generally addressing the notion of scaling people in Kengan to being bullet-timing when they're all about prediction. It's, verbatim, not a bullet-timing verse, both by numerous explicit reaction speeds given to us by the author in objective narration, and by numerous reliable in-verse character statements.
If we want to ignore the rules of the verse for the purposes of the wiki, that's an entirely other can of worms
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We do see the gun right after, with all of the gases from the combustion materials handing right by the end of the muzzle though.
I also don't see how prediction helps Mutenba deal with a half dozen armed pirates, with the likes of rifles, a shotgun, and a goddamn minigun, despite not being close to them and having no cover. You are entirely free to tell me how prediction with speeds way lower than a bullet help with that amount of hail, especially when Mutenba hasn't moved a step the moment all the guns are trained on him and we see them going off like mad in the next panel.
You mean disregard the explanations of the author when they completely clash with what we are shown? Should we also disregard the outright invisible whip arm of bando from people dozens of meters away, which Hatsumi reacted to in his fight? The whole point of the Niko example is that he had to gently parry the bullets with as little power and movement as possible. How that works in either of these two examples, when neither of these 2 characters have any similar techniques and such a thing wouldn't even work for Mutenba with the ridiculous ordenance levied on him, is up to you to explain.
I also don't see how prediction helps Mutenba deal with a half dozen armed pirates, with the likes of rifles, a shotgun, and a goddamn minigun, despite not being close to them and having no cover. You are entirely free to tell me how prediction with speeds way lower than a bullet help with that amount of hail, especially when Mutenba hasn't moved a step the moment all the guns are trained on him and we see them going off like mad in the next panel.
You mean disregard the explanations of the author when they completely clash with what we are shown? Should we also disregard the outright invisible whip arm of bando from people dozens of meters away, which Hatsumi reacted to in his fight? The whole point of the Niko example is that he had to gently parry the bullets with as little power and movement as possible. How that works in either of these two examples, when neither of these 2 characters have any similar techniques and such a thing wouldn't even work for Mutenba with the ridiculous ordenance levied on him, is up to you to explain.
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Muteba, the guy who has Daredevil-tier sensory organs, being able to aimdodge is somehow absurd?
We also don't see him dodge any gunfire, for the record.
But no we aren't disregrading the explanations of the author here, we would be disregarding the explanations of the author and literally every major character in-verse. We are given objective data. We use objective data. If our calcs come out to something different, obviously we worked from flawed presumptions.
Literally nothing is on me to explain here thankfully. I can just rely on objective narration and character statements all day long and until someone shows me an objective bullet dodge in-series (none exists), I'm good since the evidence is solidly on my side here.
We also don't see him dodge any gunfire, for the record.
But no we aren't disregrading the explanations of the author here, we would be disregarding the explanations of the author and literally every major character in-verse. We are given objective data. We use objective data. If our calcs come out to something different, obviously we worked from flawed presumptions.
Literally nothing is on me to explain here thankfully. I can just rely on objective narration and character statements all day long and until someone shows me an objective bullet dodge in-series (none exists), I'm good since the evidence is solidly on my side here.
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We've ignored author statements and character statements before, check the Flash (CW) verse for example.
The comments we've made in the Akoya support characters being at least capable of perceiving and reacting to things that break the sound barrier.
The comments we've made in the Akoya support characters being at least capable of perceiving and reacting to things that break the sound barrier.
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I don't care at all for other verses. Another verse being mistaken doesn't reflect on the current verse.
There's mitigating context for quite literally every 'bullet timing' feat in Kengan. The most explicit one is possibly Inaba blocking bullets with his hair in a single one-off panel, but it's a guy firing straight at his hair. No reactions even needed for that since it's a guy firing right at his hair.
There's a lot of reaching that can happen for the Kenganverse, but it will almost all boil down to being destroyed by context
There's mitigating context for quite literally every 'bullet timing' feat in Kengan. The most explicit one is possibly Inaba blocking bullets with his hair in a single one-off panel, but it's a guy firing straight at his hair. No reactions even needed for that since it's a guy firing right at his hair.
There's a lot of reaching that can happen for the Kenganverse, but it will almost all boil down to being destroyed by context
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I'm just saying death of the author is a thing
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Sure, that's a thing.
But then you get cases like this one wherein you are quite literally presuming that the author is an unreliable source of information overall, and taking what the author has put on the panel as 'more accurate' than.....what the author has put on the panel?
It gets super fucky super fast, and is obscene. The more appropriate measure to take is "We are outright and objectively told the result of these feats will always be below [X] speed, so if we calc it to be [X] or above we can reasonably state we screwed up"
But then you get cases like this one wherein you are quite literally presuming that the author is an unreliable source of information overall, and taking what the author has put on the panel as 'more accurate' than.....what the author has put on the panel?
It gets super fucky super fast, and is obscene. The more appropriate measure to take is "We are outright and objectively told the result of these feats will always be below [X] speed, so if we calc it to be [X] or above we can reasonably state we screwed up"
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Akoya is noted to have superhuman reactions and "the fastest reflexes of the human race" so him being that fast makes sense from a certain point of view
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Do you honest to God not see the lack of sense in using "aimdodge" to justify a dude slower than bullets being able to remain completely unscathed from a rain of bullets by a dozen guns with a good couple of automatic weapons and no potential cover nearby? Are you really this willing to stick to such a bullshit idea that sounds nice in theory but falls flat in execution? Are we really gonna ignore the clear image of him fighting people with automatic weapons in wide, open fields while he's completely unarmed?Xulrev said:
No, we wouldn't be disregarding the explanations of every character in verse, we would be disregarding the explanations of a younger version of Kuroki and of Niko, an explanation given in chapter 49 of a 200+ long manga series.
Except when there's blatant examples you do need to explain. Drop the bad logic, because if you really think Muteba just aim dodged out of that situation, you are speaking out of your ass. This is literally no different than sticking up for the author when he shows stuff completely contradicting his words simply because he repeats it more than once - bullshit statements are bullshit no matter the many times you say it when they are completely incongruent with key scenes. Or are you saying Niko is more objectively true than Muteba, whose whole deal is that he's an untouchable monster in war zones with armed people, or a weakened Ohma reacting to the crack of a whip's tip outright called supersonic casually? Yes, I am sure aim dogging is a thing with whips when the character in question doesn't even know pre motion, the thing Kuroki used to move before the rifle pointed at his face shots.
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Ohma, Niko, Muteba, Akoya and Inaba haven't any prediction or future sight. it never stated. yet Ohma dodged faster than sound whips, Niko reacted to bullets and deflected them, Muteba constantly soloed groups of armed people in small locations such as a ship, Akoya moved far faster than a bullet and Inaba reacted to multiple bullets at close distance.
also if you aren't fast enough prediction doesn't help you at all. with or without prediction you need to having "fast" speeds for dodging predicted shit.
it's like saying i have normal human level reactions and i know direction of multiple bullets so now i can dodge or deflect them through my normal human level reactions. it doesn't make any sense at all.
also if you aren't fast enough prediction doesn't help you at all. with or without prediction you need to having "fast" speeds for dodging predicted shit.
it's like saying i have normal human level reactions and i know direction of multiple bullets so now i can dodge or deflect them through my normal human level reactions. it doesn't make any sense at all.
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Show me something explaining all of these occurrences, versus Niko showing once a way to overcome "totally faster than us" bullets and Kuroki blocking a rifle bullet with a pot, despite outright saying it was slower than he expected (and I am not about to think he is gonna comment on the speed of something he can't perceive).
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I don't mean to sound rude, but we have provided proof. The only thing that contradicts them is 2 blanket statements done by 2 characters. One of which was done earlier in the series, and another by a character when he was far weaker than he is now (on top of him calling a bullet slow).
There's also the fact that, despite guys like Kuroki and Ohma being able to deflect bullets and supersonic whips via prediction and skill, they fail to react to or get caught of guard by punches from humans. Even Kuroki needed a period of adjustment to predict Rei running at him in a straight line, when we've established that this guy was predicting bullets as part of his training like a decade ago.
That alone should tell you of the speed of some of these characters
There's also the fact that, despite guys like Kuroki and Ohma being able to deflect bullets and supersonic whips via prediction and skill, they fail to react to or get caught of guard by punches from humans. Even Kuroki needed a period of adjustment to predict Rei running at him in a straight line, when we've established that this guy was predicting bullets as part of his training like a decade ago.
That alone should tell you of the speed of some of these characters
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Guys keep it civil
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@Xulrev
We have a confirmed supersonic whip feat, Akoya feat which clearly demonstrated a gun being fired before he move followed by a smoking gun, Bando's Arm Whip which moved so fast they could only be heard by a loud boom, Muteba's thing, and Inaba using his hair to block bullets as demonstrated by the movement of his hands
All of this supports at least supersonic Kengan.
@ItalianGuy
This isn't uncivil. You wanna see things get uncivil?
I think the fact that Kengan Ashura beat Mob Pyscho 100 in a contest to decide who gets an anime, but still wound up the way it did is proof that anime is doomed
We have a confirmed supersonic whip feat, Akoya feat which clearly demonstrated a gun being fired before he move followed by a smoking gun, Bando's Arm Whip which moved so fast they could only be heard by a loud boom, Muteba's thing, and Inaba using his hair to block bullets as demonstrated by the movement of his hands
All of this supports at least supersonic Kengan.
@ItalianGuy
This isn't uncivil. You wanna see things get uncivil?
I think the fact that Kengan Ashura beat Mob Pyscho 100 in a contest to decide who gets an anime, but still wound up the way it did is proof that anime is doomed
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The whip feat isnt even what you purport it to be. Whips dont work the way you're thinking, unfortunately.
Akoya has the unfortunate circumstance of us knowing he was facing down a panicking guy and us not seeing when he moved in relatiom to the bullet being fired.
Bando has the mitigating circumstance of the boom being the concrete shattering on impact.
Muteba has the mitigating context of us not seeing literally any feat whatsoever to calc or intuit anything from.
Inaba has the mitigating context of he blocks bullets that are fired right at his hair with nothing to calc
Akoya has the unfortunate circumstance of us knowing he was facing down a panicking guy and us not seeing when he moved in relatiom to the bullet being fired.
Bando has the mitigating circumstance of the boom being the concrete shattering on impact.
Muteba has the mitigating context of us not seeing literally any feat whatsoever to calc or intuit anything from.
Inaba has the mitigating context of he blocks bullets that are fired right at his hair with nothing to calc
