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Kaguya's ETSO The Final Chapter: Part 1, Episode 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
Godernet

Godernet

He/Him
2,722
3,616
Yeah we need to talk about this jutsu,

There has been a spike in the amount of conversation surrounding this jutsu in recent months and it has been a pretty controversial topic for the past 10 years since it was shown in the manga that everyone and their mother has a different opinion about.

Recent CRTs about the Topic

https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-kaguya-etso-note-for-accuracy-and-updating.171615/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/4-b-kaguya-this-is-useless-and-im-wasting-my-time.172315/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c.171543/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c-part-2.171771/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/universal-naruto-hax-crt.169980/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/

Not only have most of these threads been rejected, with premises that have been rejected many times in the past, but these are only the ones that have happened this year, not to mention this probably isn't all of them.


Simply put, the logic behind trying to use them for Tier 4 and Tier 2 Ninjutsu and Physicals for lesser characters just doesn't work with what we currently have available in the series.

  • The Naruto Verse just isn't a UES (Universal Power System) anymore, for all the reasons KingTempest has already discussed in a previous thread.
  • Kaguya gathered the Chakra from every Shinobi in Infinite Tsukuyomi, and became exponentially stronger just from absorbing a piece of what she was feeding into the Expansive Truth Seeking Orb over a completely unquantifiable amount of time to reach the potential destruction Zetsu stated it would be capable of having.
  • The Boruto Series has recently unveiled a Jutsu that at the very least based off what we currently know, hovers around the Planetary Levels of power due to it mechanically being primarily comprised of the rotational Energy of the Planet Earth which was calced by Arc7Kuroi, with the characters this jutsu harmed in the manga such as Code and Hidari being much stronger than the Shippuden God Tiers (All greatly stronger than Jigen, who obliterated Adult Naruto and Sasuke who are > their younger selves.)

Frankly the goal of this thread isn't to say where ETSO should end up valuewise nor that it is completely impossible for any character to scale to ETSO, nor that everyone Pre-Boruto TBV should be capped at 600 ZTs.

However, I don't think there have been any good arguments for why ETSO can scale to Shippuden GTs or even the stronger characters in the earlier parts of Boruto: Naruto Next Generations, who still feel Kaguya is a viable threat to them, physically or with Ninjutsu outside of incredulity and kinda just ignoring the context of the jutsu a bit.

So for the sake of sealing away an already exhausted topic on this site, I'm proposing a Discussion Rule.

After all, we already have this on Kaguya's page and yet threads on the topic are still spammed very often.

Note: Attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO) attack have been consistently rejected in past discussions. It is important to note that Chakra, as an energy system, does not meet the requirements for Universal Energy System (UES). Furthermore, there are no recognized feats or official statements that directly link the physical capabilities of characters to the ETSO attack.

Of course a discussion rule isn't necessarily permanent but it will limit a lot of recycled CRTs and disputes about a topic that hasnt really been given any new information in the 10 years since it was used by Kaguya.

I don't intend to bar every character from scaling, however characters on Kaguya's level or weaker should be barred for obvious reasons.

The Discussion Rule would look something like:

Until new information is provided by the series, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation and inconsistent with other showings of power performed or stated by other characters in the verse that hold relative/superior power to Kaguya herself.

Of course, if you have any gripes with the rule or the phrasing, or the arguments, that can be discussed below as well.

As always lets be chill when discussing this.

Votes

Agree(Original Version): LordTracer, Arc7Kuroi, MasqueTLDR, Bastolan27, KingTempest, Maverick_Zero_X, Damage3245, Excellence616, Ryzen7900x,

Agree(MinatoSparkle Version): MinatoSparkle, sageof8paths, Ghostimuscrime, DavidTPPM, Nierre, UchihaSlayer96

Neutral:

Disagree: Samlex1234
 
Last edited:
Please don't close this fast, as the op tackled a lot of things. Honestly, the fact that you got two admins to agree this fast is disheartening. Never the less we move
 
Would this prevent CRTs that say momo and kinshiki should be above that since kaguya post IT absorption in the war arc produced the entire tso near instantly so characters that dwarf her would be above her all her FP attacks, (even without the etso im assuming she puts that chakra amount into something else like the god hand thingy)

or is it only against shippuden characters
 
Godernet said:
The Discussion Rule would look something like:

Until new information is provided by the series, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation and inconsistent with other showings of power performed or stated by other characters in the verse that hold relative/superior power to Kaguya herself.
Click to expand...
Inb4 people start scaling Kaguyas and other people's physicals ABOVE the ETSO instead to it to bypass the rule
 
I will address each argument individually. If any admin chooses to vote ‘yes’ without countering my points, I will escalate the matter to their superiors. This action is not based on bias but rather on their failure to respond to valid counterarguments.

This is my first argument to tackle the below

“The topic has been discussed many times over the years”

https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-kaguya-etso-note-for-accuracy-and-updating.171615/


I created this thread several months ago because the existing discussion rule was fundamentally flawed. Here’s the rule in question:

“The attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball (ETSB) have been rejected many times. The primary reason is that this attack requires a chakra amount far greater than her own, and scaling her ordinary stats to it is inconsistent with her performance against Naruto and Sasuke, who each possess only half of Hagoromo’s chakra.”


It has recently been recognized that this rule has been incorrect for over four years. Just because a majority supports a claim does not make it true. The notion that something is automatically valid due to popular acceptance is misguided. It’s unreasonable to dismiss critiques when the foundation of such rules is based on insufficient evidence, especially on a wiki that is widely regarded as a leading source for VS battles.

When foundational arguments are flawed, it’s natural for people to raise concerns and propose changes. The argument that just because something has been repeatedly discussed or accepted over time means it is valid is fundamentally flawed. I identified faults in the old scaling, which has now been debunked. This led me to create a CRT to challenge a rule that had persisted for over four years, demonstrating that longevity does not equate to correctness.

Ad Populum Fallacy


If this CRT is accepted without my arguments being countered I will create another CRT. because you can accept or disagree means nothing if you are wrong, people will always see the wrong and try to change it.
 
Last edited:
contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation
Godernet said:
Yeah we need to talk about this jutsu,

There has been a spike in the amount of conversation surrounding this jutsu in recent months and it has been a pretty controversial topic for the past 10 years since it was shown in the manga that everyone and their mother has a different opinion about.

Recent CRTs about the Topic

https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-kaguya-etso-note-for-accuracy-and-updating.171615/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/4-b-kaguya-this-is-useless-and-im-wasting-my-time.172315/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c.171543/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c-part-2.171771/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/universal-naruto-hax-crt.169980/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/

Not only have most of these threads been rejected, with premises that have been rejected many times in the past, but these are only the ones that have happened this year, not to mention this probably isn't all of them.


Simply put, the logic behind trying to use them for Tier 4 and Tier 2 Ninjutsu and Physicals for lesser characters just doesn't work with what we currently have available in the series.

  • The Naruto Verse just isn't a UES (Universal Power System) anymore, for all the reasons KingTempest has already discussed in a previous thread.
  • Kaguya gathered the Chakra from every Shinobi in Infinite Tsukuyomi, and became exponentially stronger just from absorbing a piece of what she was feeding into the Expansive Truth Seeking Orb over a completely unquantifiable amount of time to reach the potential destruction Zetsu stated it would be capable of having.
  • The Boruto Series has recently unveiled a Jutsu that at the very least based off what we currently know, hovers around the Planetary Levels of power due to it mechanically being primarily comprised of the rotational Energy of the Planet Earth which was calced by Arc7Kuroi, with the characters this jutsu harmed in the manga such as Code and Hidari being much stronger than the Shippuden God Tiers (All greatly stronger than Jigen, who obliterated Adult Naruto and Sasuke who are > their younger selves.)

Frankly the goal of this thread isn't to say where ETSO should end up valuewise nor that it is completely impossible for any character to scale to ETSO, nor that everyone Pre-Boruto TBV should be capped at 600 ZTs.

However, I don't think there have been any good arguments for why ETSO can scale to Shippuden GTs or even the stronger characters in the earlier parts of Boruto: Naruto Next Generations, who still feel Kaguya is a viable threat to them, physically or with Ninjutsu outside of incredulity and kinda just ignoring the context of the jutsu a bit.

So for the sake of sealing away an already exhausted topic on this site, I'm proposing a Discussion Rule.

After all, we already have this on Kaguya's page and yet threads on the topic are still spammed very often.

Note: Attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO) attack have been consistently rejected in past discussions. It is important to note that Chakra, as an energy system, does not meet the requirements for Universal Energy System (UES). Furthermore, there are no recognized feats or official statements that directly link the physical capabilities of characters to the ETSO attack.

Of course a discussion rule isn't necessarily permanent but it will limit a lot of recycled CRTs and disputes about a topic that hasnt really been given any new information in the 10 years since it was used by Kaguya.

I don't intend to bar every character from scaling, however characters on Kaguya's level or weaker should be barred for obvious reasons.

The Discussion Rule would look something like:

Until new information is provided by the series, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation and inconsistent with other showings of power performed or stated by other characters in the verse that hold relative/superior power to Kaguya herself.

Of course, if you have any gripes with the rule or the phrasing, or the arguments, that can be discussed below as well.

As always lets be chill when discussing this.

Votes

Agree: LordTracer, Arc7Kuroi, MasqueTLDR, Bastolan27, KingTempest,


Neutral:


Disagree:
Click to expand...
Why is this an argument , please expand
 
Last edited:
Samlex1234 said:
contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation

Why is this an argument , please expand
Click to expand...
I think you're spamming the thread too much. Try to compose your arguments into a single comment and let the opposition respond
 
Samlex1234 said:
I will address each argument individually. If any admin chooses to vote ‘yes’ without countering my points, I will escalate the matter to their superiors. This action is not based on bias but rather on their failure to respond to valid counterarguments.

This is my first argument to tackle the below

“The topic has been discussed many times over the years”

https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-kaguya-etso-note-for-accuracy-and-updating.171615/


I created this thread several months ago because the existing discussion rule was fundamentally flawed. Here’s the rule in question:

“The attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball (ETSB) have been rejected many times. The primary reason is that this attack requires a chakra amount far greater than her own, and scaling her ordinary stats to it is inconsistent with her performance against Naruto and Sasuke, who each possess only half of Hagoromo’s chakra.”


It has recently been recognized that this rule has been incorrect for over four years. Just because a majority supports a claim does not make it true. The notion that something is automatically valid due to popular acceptance is misguided. It’s unreasonable to dismiss critiques when the foundation of such rules is based on insufficient evidence, especially on a wiki that is widely regarded as a leading source for VS battles.

When foundational arguments are flawed, it’s natural for people to raise concerns and propose changes. The argument that just because something has been repeatedly discussed or accepted over time means it is valid is fundamentally flawed. I identified faults in the old scaling, which has now been debunked. This led me to create a CRT to challenge a rule that had persisted for over four years, demonstrating that longevity does not equate to correctness.

Ad Populum Fallacy


If this CRT is accepted without my arguments being countered I will create another CRT. because you can accept or disagree means nothing if you are wrong, people will always see the wrong and try to change it.
Click to expand...

pNQUUqT.jpeg
 
Samlex1234 said:
I will address each argument individually. If any admin chooses to vote ‘yes’ without countering my points, I will escalate the matter to their superiors. This action is not based on bias but rather on their failure to respond to valid counterarguments.

This is my first argument to tackle the below

“The topic has been discussed many times over the years”

https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-kaguya-etso-note-for-accuracy-and-updating.171615/


I created this thread several months ago because the existing discussion rule was fundamentally flawed. Here’s the rule in question:

“The attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball (ETSB) have been rejected many times. The primary reason is that this attack requires a chakra amount far greater than her own, and scaling her ordinary stats to it is inconsistent with her performance against Naruto and Sasuke, who each possess only half of Hagoromo’s chakra.”


It has recently been recognized that this rule has been incorrect for over four years. Just because a majority supports a claim does not make it true. The notion that something is automatically valid due to popular acceptance is misguided. It’s unreasonable to dismiss critiques when the foundation of such rules is based on insufficient evidence, especially on a wiki that is widely regarded as a leading source for VS battles.

When foundational arguments are flawed, it’s natural for people to raise concerns and propose changes. The argument that just because something has been repeatedly discussed or accepted over time means it is valid is fundamentally flawed. I identified faults in the old scaling, which has now been debunked. This led me to create a CRT to challenge a rule that had persisted for over four years, demonstrating that longevity does not equate to correctness.

Ad Populum Fallacy


If this CRT is accepted without my arguments being countered I will create another CRT. because you can accept or disagree means nothing if you are wrong, people will always see the wrong and try to change it.
Click to expand...
I hate to break it to you but this site operates on the principle of "Majority=Gets used on profiles". From CRTs to Versus threads.
That you think something is right or wrong means nothing if you can't get majority of the right people (in this case, staffs) to subscribe to your assertions.
Is it a perfect system? Maybe not
But that's ultimately how the wiki works
 
This discussion rule will accomplish jack (Not Godernet's fault, because goons will keep gooning). This will only function as an added annoyance to anyone with better arguments. I don't see the point to adding a rule but put me in neutral as I am not really opposed to it either.
 
Godernet said:
Yeah we need to talk about this jutsu,

There has been a spike in the amount of conversation surrounding this jutsu in recent months and it has been a pretty controversial topic for the past 10 years since it was shown in the manga that everyone and their mother has a different opinion about.

Recent CRTs about the Topic

https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-kaguya-etso-note-for-accuracy-and-updating.171615/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/4-b-kaguya-this-is-useless-and-im-wasting-my-time.172315/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c.171543/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c-part-2.171771/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/universal-naruto-hax-crt.169980/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/

Not only have most of these threads been rejected, with premises that have been rejected many times in the past, but these are only the ones that have happened this year, not to mention this probably isn't all of them.


Simply put, the logic behind trying to use them for Tier 4 and Tier 2 Ninjutsu and Physicals for lesser characters just doesn't work with what we currently have available in the series.

  • The Naruto Verse just isn't a UES (Universal Power System) anymore, for all the reasons KingTempest has already discussed in a previous thread.
  • Kaguya gathered the Chakra from every Shinobi in Infinite Tsukuyomi, and became exponentially stronger just from absorbing a piece of what she was feeding into the Expansive Truth Seeking Orb over a completely unquantifiable amount of time to reach the potential destruction Zetsu stated it would be capable of having.
  • The Boruto Series has recently unveiled a Jutsu that at the very least based off what we currently know, hovers around the Planetary Levels of power due to it mechanically being primarily comprised of the rotational Energy of the Planet Earth which was calced by Arc7Kuroi, with the characters this jutsu harmed in the manga such as Code and Hidari being much stronger than the Shippuden God Tiers (All greatly stronger than Jigen, who obliterated Adult Naruto and Sasuke who are > their younger selves.)

Frankly the goal of this thread isn't to say where ETSO should end up valuewise nor that it is completely impossible for any character to scale to ETSO, nor that everyone Pre-Boruto TBV should be capped at 600 ZTs.

However, I don't think there have been any good arguments for why ETSO can scale to Shippuden GTs or even the stronger characters in the earlier parts of Boruto: Naruto Next Generations, who still feel Kaguya is a viable threat to them, physically or with Ninjutsu outside of incredulity and kinda just ignoring the context of the jutsu a bit.

So for the sake of sealing away an already exhausted topic on this site, I'm proposing a Discussion Rule.

After all, we already have this on Kaguya's page and yet threads on the topic are still spammed very often.

Note: Attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO) attack have been consistently rejected in past discussions. It is important to note that Chakra, as an energy system, does not meet the requirements for Universal Energy System (UES). Furthermore, there are no recognized feats or official statements that directly link the physical capabilities of characters to the ETSO attack.

Of course a discussion rule isn't necessarily permanent but it will limit a lot of recycled CRTs and disputes about a topic that hasnt really been given any new information in the 10 years since it was used by Kaguya.

I don't intend to bar every character from scaling, however characters on Kaguya's level or weaker should be barred for obvious reasons.

The Discussion Rule would look something like:

Until new information is provided by the series, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation and inconsistent with other showings of power performed or stated by other characters in the verse that hold relative/superior power to Kaguya herself.

Of course, if you have any gripes with the rule or the phrasing, or the arguments, that can be discussed below as well.

As always lets be chill when discussing this.

Votes

Agree: LordTracer, Arc7Kuroi, MasqueTLDR, Bastolan27, KingTempest,


Neutral:


Disagree:
Click to expand...
I think adding a rule that says "until new info is brought into the series" this topic won't be discussed seems like a big stretch. It just means no matter what factors change as long as the series makes no mention of it nothing can be done. One of the CRT there is a note change and 2 are on the same thing (MAS > ETSO, which isn't that wild and very subjective tbh), one CRT has nothing to do with this and is just adjusting the ETSO calc value and the rest few looks like it was done poorly by new members who just came into the wiki.

My point is it's not that deep as to barring until new information.. someone might be out there with new or better arguments which is how discussion rules work in the first place
 
LordTracer said:
I could’ve sworn we had a discussion rule for this already, and I completely agree that we should have one.
Click to expand...
I understand we’ve had this discussion before, and I made adjustments just two months ago. It seems like this new approach was created out of spite and uses manipulative tactics to divert attention from completely different topics. I know we agree that we should have a structure in place, and we already do.
Testarossa002 said:
I hate to break it to you but this site operates on the principle of "Majority=Gets used on profiles". From CRTs to Versus threads.
That you think something is right or wrong means nothing if you can't get majority of the right people (in this case, staffs) to subscribe to your assertions.
Is it a perfect system? Maybe not
But that's ultimately how the wiki works
Click to expand...
My issue isn’t whether the majority agrees or disagrees. The real point is that the majority’s stance on a thread doesn’t inherently make them right, which is what the original poster seems to be implying. Just because a topic has been ‘discussed multiple times’ doesn’t mean the majority opinion is automatically correct.”

Hence the below being an example

“The attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball (ETSB) have been rejected many times”



Damage3245 said:
I agree with having a rule on this topic at this point.
Click to expand...
We already have a discussion rule. Honestly guys this is terrible. I just created a CRT to tackle this very issue some months ago. I'm very sure this is how that false rule got passed too. You can't pass a discussion rule based on a false premise and expect people not to create CRT to change it. Please take your time to tackle each argument unless people would create another CRT including me because this rule is false.


Maverick_Zero_X said:
I agree.
Click to expand...
Please 🙏 address my counters
KingTempest said:
Looks good
Click to expand...
please address my counters
 
Godernet said:
Yeah we need to talk about this jutsu,

There has been a spike in the amount of conversation surrounding this jutsu in recent months and it has been a pretty controversial topic for the past 10 years since it was shown in the manga that everyone and their mother has a different opinion about.

Recent CRTs about the Topic

https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-kaguya-etso-note-for-accuracy-and-updating.171615/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/4-b-kaguya-this-is-useless-and-im-wasting-my-time.172315/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c.171543/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c-part-2.171771/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/universal-naruto-hax-crt.169980/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/

Not only have most of these threads been rejected, with premises that have been rejected many times in the past, but these are only the ones that have happened this year, not to mention this probably isn't all of them.


Simply put, the logic behind trying to use them for Tier 4 and Tier 2 Ninjutsu and Physicals for lesser characters just doesn't work with what we currently have available in the series.

  • The Naruto Verse just isn't a UES (Universal Power System) anymore, for all the reasons KingTempest has already discussed in a previous thread.
  • Kaguya gathered the Chakra from every Shinobi in Infinite Tsukuyomi, and became exponentially stronger just from absorbing a piece of what she was feeding into the Expansive Truth Seeking Orb over a completely unquantifiable amount of time to reach the potential destruction Zetsu stated it would be capable of having.
  • The Boruto Series has recently unveiled a Jutsu that at the very least based off what we currently know, hovers around the Planetary Levels of power due to it mechanically being primarily comprised of the rotational Energy of the Planet Earth which was calced by Arc7Kuroi, with the characters this jutsu harmed in the manga such as Code and Hidari being much stronger than the Shippuden God Tiers (All greatly stronger than Jigen, who obliterated Adult Naruto and Sasuke who are > their younger selves.)

Frankly the goal of this thread isn't to say where ETSO should end up valuewise nor that it is completely impossible for any character to scale to ETSO, nor that everyone Pre-Boruto TBV should be capped at 600 ZTs.

However, I don't think there have been any good arguments for why ETSO can scale to Shippuden GTs or even the stronger characters in the earlier parts of Boruto: Naruto Next Generations, who still feel Kaguya is a viable threat to them, physically or with Ninjutsu outside of incredulity and kinda just ignoring the context of the jutsu a bit.

So for the sake of sealing away an already exhausted topic on this site, I'm proposing a Discussion Rule.

After all, we already have this on Kaguya's page and yet threads on the topic are still spammed very often.

Note: Attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO) attack have been consistently rejected in past discussions. It is important to note that Chakra, as an energy system, does not meet the requirements for Universal Energy System (UES). Furthermore, there are no recognized feats or official statements that directly link the physical capabilities of characters to the ETSO attack.

Of course a discussion rule isn't necessarily permanent but it will limit a lot of recycled CRTs and disputes about a topic that hasnt really been given any new information in the 10 years since it was used by Kaguya.

I don't intend to bar every character from scaling, however characters on Kaguya's level or weaker should be barred for obvious reasons.

The Discussion Rule would look something like:

Until new information is provided by the series, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation and inconsistent with other showings of power performed or stated by other characters in the verse that hold relative/superior power to Kaguya herself.

Of course, if you have any gripes with the rule or the phrasing, or the arguments, that can be discussed below as well.

As always lets be chill when discussing this.

Votes

Agree: LordTracer, Arc7Kuroi, MasqueTLDR, Bastolan27, KingTempest,


Neutral:


Disagree:
Click to expand...
Disagree. This assumes just because you discussed it over before you couldn’t possibly have missed any details.

Uzihiko is stated to have incorporated boruto’s own chakra and stacks the damage of a normal rasengan + the planet stuff on the official Naruto website,

Aside from that it’s stated to have absolutely no limit to its power it just depends on how much energy u absorb

it’s as strong as whoever is using needs it to be and does not cap the verse whatsoever
 
Samlex1234 said:
My issue isn’t whether the majority agrees or disagrees. The real point is that the majority’s stance on a thread doesn’t inherently make them right,
Click to expand...
Sure. What it does mean, though, is that it’s the majority's stance that gets put on profiles.
sageof8paths said:
Uzihiko is stated to have incorporated boruto’s own chakra and stacks the damage of a normal rasengan + the planet stuff on the official Naruto website,
Click to expand...
Boruto's hypothetical 4-B rasengan did minor damage compared to when a chakra of 5-B gets added to it. With a hypothetical 4-B power, Boruto doesn't need to stack 5-B chakra on it in order to turn the Sasuke clone into fine mist. Yet, he evidently needs to.
sageof8paths said:
Aside from that it’s stated to have absolutely no limit to its power it just depends on how much energy u absorb
Click to expand...
Sure. Do you know, however, that the 5-B is the Earth's KE persec?
For boruto to achieve even baseline 4-B levels of output, he'll need to charge up around >41,000 centuries (i hope the math is right but either way, it's a very long time) worth of Earth's KE.
Why would boruto need to do allat if he can already output beyond that without outside help?

sageof8paths said:
it’s as strong as whoever is using needs it to be and does not cap the verse whatsoever
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a hard cap anyways. Just something that needs to be seriously taken into consideration when trying to boost the verse ratings
 
Testarossa002 said:
Sure. What it does mean, though, is that it’s the majority's stance that gets put on profiles.
Click to expand...
As pointed above lex, the majority=\=objectively true
Testarossa002 said:
Boruto's hypothetical 4-B rasengan did minor damage compared to when a chakra of 5-B gets added to it. With a hypothetical 4-B power, Boruto doesn't need to stack 5-B chakra on it in order to turn the Sasuke clone into fine mist. Yet, he evidently needs to.


Sure. Do you know, however, that the 5-B is the Earth's KE persec?
For boruto to achieve even baseline 4-B levels of output, he'll need to charge up around >41,000 centuries (i hope the math is right but either way, it's a very long time) worth of Earth's KE.
Why would boruto need to do allat if he can already output beyond that without outside help?
Click to expand...
Superman absorbes energy from the sun to perform higher dimensional feats.
For a more inverse example

Toneri absorbed enough energy from the sun (10^26/s) to push him to the brink of explosion in seconds. This same toneri that was 10^30 normally absorbed upwards of ten thousand of times more in seconds.

Sasuke can absorb the island-country level biju to amp his small planet level self many times over. (Billions of times what the bijuu are capable of)

N/s took 50% of hagoromo and amplified it to scale to Kaguya’s.

Naruto and Sasuke fuse with the MAS to create a power greater than the sum of their abilities.

Your logic was already flawed in thinking boruto would only be absorbing an amount similar to an ENDLESS source of energy’s passive release per second.

Your logic is also flawed in thinking him absorbing it and momentarily making it his own to perform said jutsu inherently needs to be a 1+1=2 addition.

As stated by boruto himself uzihiko has NO LIMIT and is an infinite source in the most literal way. Him absorbing 4B energy is still infinitely less than its entirety.

Thats not how Naruto, nor other fiction works
Testarossa002 said:
I don't think it's a hard cap anyways. Just something that needs to be seriously taken into consideration when trying to boost the verse ratings
Click to expand...
 
sageof8paths said:
As pointed above lex, the majority=\=objectively true
Click to expand...
I wholeheartedly agree and hate that you could make a CRT claiming something like "Naruto is Shaquille O’Neal" and if enough people agreed it would be put on the profile regardless how much it gets debunked.

But that's just how the wiki and most of the world works. You can't prove something is objectively true 90% of the time in powerscaling and if you can the majority will naturally agree. That's why a voting system is used.
 
DavidTPPM said:
I wholeheartedly agree and hate that you could make a CRT claiming something like "Naruto is Shaquille O’Neal" and if enough people agreed it would be put on the profile regardless how much it gets debunked.

But that's just how the wiki and most of the world works. You can't prove something is objectively true 90% of the time in powerscaling and if you can the majority will naturally agree. That's why a voting system is used.
Click to expand...
Agreed. But to make rules that say certain topics can’t be discussed because our subjective majority have a stance on it doesn’t make sense

As someone pointed above if u 100% need to make a rule, it should be about how certain arguments pertaining said topic can’t be reused not the topic as a whole.
 
DavidTPPM said:
I wholeheartedly agree and hate that you could make a CRT claiming something like "Naruto is Shaquille O’Neal" and if enough people agreed it would be put on the profile regardless how much it gets debunked.

But that's just how the wiki and most of the world works. You can't prove something is objectively true 90% of the time in powerscaling and if you can the majority will naturally agree. That's why a voting system is used.
Click to expand...
You know what this is even fine as far as people can just create another CRT with new evidence to point out why Naruto is not Shaquille o Neal. The problem here however is that a rule I repeat a rule that would allow you not to Create a CRT to challenge that very notion is being passed. Then you wonder why people get angry and call the system flawed.
 
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