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Yeah we need to talk about this jutsu,
There has been a spike in the amount of conversation surrounding this jutsu in recent months and it has been a pretty controversial topic for the past 10 years since it was shown in the manga that everyone and their mother has a different opinion about.
Recent CRTs about the Topic
https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-kaguya-etso-note-for-accuracy-and-updating.171615/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/4-b-kaguya-this-is-useless-and-im-wasting-my-time.172315/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c.171543/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c-part-2.171771/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/universal-naruto-hax-crt.169980/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/
Not only have most of these threads been rejected, with premises that have been rejected many times in the past, but these are only the ones that have happened this year, not to mention this probably isn't all of them.
Of course, if you have any gripes with the rule or the phrasing, or the arguments, that can be discussed below as well.
As always lets be chill when discussing this.
Votes
Agree(Original Version): LordTracer, Arc7Kuroi, MasqueTLDR, Bastolan27, KingTempest, Maverick_Zero_X, Damage3245, Excellence616, Ryzen7900x,
Agree(MinatoSparkle Version): MinatoSparkle, sageof8paths, Ghostimuscrime, DavidTPPM, Nierre, UchihaSlayer96
Neutral:
Disagree: Samlex1234
There has been a spike in the amount of conversation surrounding this jutsu in recent months and it has been a pretty controversial topic for the past 10 years since it was shown in the manga that everyone and their mother has a different opinion about.
Recent CRTs about the Topic
https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-the-kaguya-etso-note-for-accuracy-and-updating.171615/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/4-b-kaguya-this-is-useless-and-im-wasting-my-time.172315/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c.171543/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/kaguya-in-naruto-has-l2c-part-2.171771/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/universal-naruto-hax-crt.169980/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/majestic-attire-susano-is-far-stronger-than-we-thought.164085/
Not only have most of these threads been rejected, with premises that have been rejected many times in the past, but these are only the ones that have happened this year, not to mention this probably isn't all of them.
Simply put, the logic behind trying to use them for Tier 4 and Tier 2 Ninjutsu and Physicals for lesser characters just doesn't work with what we currently have available in the series.
- The Naruto Verse just isn't a UES (Universal Power System) anymore, for all the reasons KingTempest has already discussed in a previous thread.
- Kaguya gathered the Chakra from every Shinobi in Infinite Tsukuyomi, and became exponentially stronger just from absorbing a piece of what she was feeding into the Expansive Truth Seeking Orb over a completely unquantifiable amount of time to reach the potential destruction Zetsu stated it would be capable of having.
- The Boruto Series has recently unveiled a Jutsu that at the very least based off what we currently know, hovers around the Planetary Levels of power due to it mechanically being primarily comprised of the rotational Energy of the Planet Earth which was calced by Arc7Kuroi, with the characters this jutsu harmed in the manga such as Code and Hidari being much stronger than the Shippuden God Tiers (All greatly stronger than Jigen, who obliterated Adult Naruto and Sasuke who are > their younger selves.)
Frankly the goal of this thread isn't to say where ETSO should end up valuewise nor that it is completely impossible for any character to scale to ETSO, nor that everyone Pre-Boruto TBV should be capped at 600 ZTs.
However, I don't think there have been any good arguments for why ETSO can scale to Shippuden GTs or even the stronger characters in the earlier parts of Boruto: Naruto Next Generations, who still feel Kaguya is a viable threat to them, physically or with Ninjutsu outside of incredulity and kinda just ignoring the context of the jutsu a bit.
So for the sake of sealing away an already exhausted topic on this site, I'm proposing a Discussion Rule.
After all, we already have this on Kaguya's page and yet threads on the topic are still spammed very often.
Note: Attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO) attack have been consistently rejected in past discussions. It is important to note that Chakra, as an energy system, does not meet the requirements for Universal Energy System (UES). Furthermore, there are no recognized feats or official statements that directly link the physical capabilities of characters to the ETSO attack.
However, I don't think there have been any good arguments for why ETSO can scale to Shippuden GTs or even the stronger characters in the earlier parts of Boruto: Naruto Next Generations, who still feel Kaguya is a viable threat to them, physically or with Ninjutsu outside of incredulity and kinda just ignoring the context of the jutsu a bit.
So for the sake of sealing away an already exhausted topic on this site, I'm proposing a Discussion Rule.
After all, we already have this on Kaguya's page and yet threads on the topic are still spammed very often.
Note: Attempts to scale Kaguya to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO) attack have been consistently rejected in past discussions. It is important to note that Chakra, as an energy system, does not meet the requirements for Universal Energy System (UES). Furthermore, there are no recognized feats or official statements that directly link the physical capabilities of characters to the ETSO attack.
Of course a discussion rule isn't necessarily permanent but it will limit a lot of recycled CRTs and disputes about a topic that hasnt really been given any new information in the 10 years since it was used by Kaguya.
I don't intend to bar every character from scaling, however characters on Kaguya's level or weaker should be barred for obvious reasons.
The Discussion Rule would look something like:
Until new information is provided by the series, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation and inconsistent with other showings of power performed or stated by other characters in the verse that hold relative/superior power to Kaguya herself.
I don't intend to bar every character from scaling, however characters on Kaguya's level or weaker should be barred for obvious reasons.
The Discussion Rule would look something like:
Until new information is provided by the series, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation and inconsistent with other showings of power performed or stated by other characters in the verse that hold relative/superior power to Kaguya herself.
Of course, if you have any gripes with the rule or the phrasing, or the arguments, that can be discussed below as well.
As always lets be chill when discussing this.
Votes
Agree(Original Version): LordTracer, Arc7Kuroi, MasqueTLDR, Bastolan27, KingTempest, Maverick_Zero_X, Damage3245, Excellence616, Ryzen7900x,
Agree(MinatoSparkle Version): MinatoSparkle, sageof8paths, Ghostimuscrime, DavidTPPM, Nierre, UchihaSlayer96
Neutral:
Disagree: Samlex1234
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