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Kaguya's ETSO The Final Chapter: Part 1, Episode 2

Testarossa002 said:
Sure. What it does mean, though, is that it’s the majority's stance that gets put on profiles.

Boruto's hypothetical 4-B rasengan did minor damage compared to when a chakra of 5-B gets added to it. With a hypothetical 4-B power, Boruto doesn't need to stack 5-B chakra on it in order to turn the Sasuke clone into fine mist. Yet, he evidently needs to.

Sure. Do you know, however, that the 5-B is the Earth's KE persec?
For boruto to achieve even baseline 4-B levels of output, he'll need to charge up around >41,000 centuries (i hope the math is right but either way, it's a very long time) worth of Earth's KE.
Why would boruto need to do allat if he can already output beyond that without outside help?


I don't think it's a hard cap anyways. Just something that needs to be seriously taken into consideration when trying to boost the verse ratings
Click to expand...
I don't see the reason of mentioning the jutsu having the same attack power as a normal rasengan unless it exclusively has the same ap, if his own power was insignificant it wouldnt make sense to make mention of it
If it was purely converted into zettatons for boruto to fire at the enemy then we would not see side effects like destroying their sense of balance and having a ceaseless recurring effect

if we analyse what the database entry listed
naruto-official.com

Boruto Database: Rasengan Uzuhiko | NARUTO OFFICIAL SITE (NARUTO & BORUTO)

Rasengan Uzuhiko Classification: Ninjutsu Wielder(s): Boruto Uzumaki
naruto-official.com naruto-official.com

it NEVER once states that AP is added to the jutsu (utilising a force =/= only can be used in ap)

In addition to the damage that a standard Rasengan causes, it destroys the target's sense of balance, debilitating them.
Click to expand...

Uzuhiko's AP is verbatim stated to have boruto's rasengan ap and NOTHING ELSE, the rotational forces affect Code's sense of balance and applies the attack in a different style
 
sageof8paths said:
As pointed above lex, the majority=\=objectively true
Click to expand...
As pointed above, Majority=Acceptance on profiles. Which is the point of a crt.
sageof8paths said:
Toneri absorbed enough energy from the sun (10^26/s) to push him to the brink of explosion in seconds. This same toneri that was 10^30 normally absorbed upwards of ten thousand of times more in seconds.

Sasuke can absorb the island-country level biju to amp his small planet level self many times over. (Billions of times what the bijuu are capable of)

N/s took 50% of hagoromo and amplified it to scale to Kaguya’s.

Naruto and Sasuke fuse with the MAS to create a power greater than the sum of their abilities.
Click to expand...
None of these examples have a remotely similar equivalence to uzuhiko's mechanics
 
Samlex1234 said:
Why?
Click to expand...
1. The toneri that was about to nuke the world with LoJ was not the same toneri that can exert 10^30 Joules. He didn’t have the tenseigan or any eyes for that matter.
2. The bijuu aren't naturally existing sources of energy unlike the planet’s spin
3. Same as 2
4. Same as 2
 
Testarossa002 said:
1. The toneri that was about to nuke the world with LoJ was not the same toneri that can exert 10^30 Joules. He didn’t have the tenseigan or any eyes for that matter.
Click to expand...
He absorbed Naruto’s power with no issue but the sun is what ****** him up so the point still stands
Testarossa002 said:
2. The bijuu aren't naturally existing sources of energy unlike the planet’s spin
Click to expand...
This is honestly a silly argument, it’s clearly not a naturalistic energy source in the way you frame it. Does our own planet irl have chakra? It’s a fictional planet be fr.

This is literally a series where characters can draw energy from nature itself bro this ain’t it and bijuu are LITERALLY STATED TO BE NATURE ENERGY. The 5B energy is the bare minimum but never a cap
Testarossa002 said:
3. Same as 2
4. Same as 2
Click to expand...
None of them are naturalistic as it’s chakra
 
sageof8paths said:
And the majority can be wrong and can change. Saying we should NEVER allow it to be challenged is ridiculous
Click to expand...
Discussion rules are challenged and removed due to the existence of improved arguments.
Using the same arguments is what's being barred.
I'm not sure what the problem is here
sageof8paths said:
He absorbed Naruto’s power with no issue but the sun is what ****** him up so the point still stands
Click to expand...
It doesn't. You have no evidence of Naruto raw chakra being in the exaton range. Potency is gauged by chakra volume and control. We, in fact, see the Potency of Naruto's raw chakra when it was extracted earlier in the movie.
sageof8paths said:
This is literally a series where characters can draw energy from nature itself bro this ain’t it and bijuu are LITERALLY STATED TO BE NATURE ENERGY. The 5B energy is the bare minimum but never a cap
Click to expand...
Uzuhiko is clearly differentiated from this.
Boruto refers to the planetary energy used for Uzuhiko as a "planet's chakra", but this is not the same as the "nature energy" used by ninja such as Naruto and Mitsuki when they enter Sage Mode.
Click to expand...
 
My proposal:

Unless you construct an argument that has yet to be addressed, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation

- section about arguments that have been debunked many times
 
Last edited:
Testarossa002 said:
Discussion rules are challenged and removed due to the existence of improved arguments.
Using the same arguments is what's being barred.
I'm not sure what the problem is here
Click to expand...
U didn’t word it like this in the op. U made it seem like unless we got any new content released by the series regarding the etso we should not talk about it.
Testarossa002 said:
It doesn't. You have no evidence of Naruto raw chakra being in the exaton range. Potency is gauged by chakra volume and control. We, in fact, see the Potency of Naruto's raw chakra when it was extracted earlier in the movie.
Click to expand...
We see Naruto use it to run through the moon slicing calc. But even if I agreed with this.

You’d only be helping my point to show because Toneri’s tenseigan chakra mode which is e+30 did not make him explode but the sun did.
Testarossa002 said:
Uzuhiko is clearly differentiated from this.
Click to expand...
U ignored the whole point. The point is saying it’s a naturalistic power source therefore it’s not applicable doesn’t make sense seeing as naturalistic power sources in the verse are still supernatural.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
My proposal:

Unless you have new arguments, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation

- section about arguments that have been debunked many times
Click to expand...
I agree with this. It should be specified that it’s only talking about repetitive arguments
 
MinatoSparkle said:
My proposal:

Unless you have new arguments, do not attempt to directly scale the ninjutsu or physical stats of Kaguya Otsutsuki, as well as other characters on her level or weaker, to the overtime capabilities of the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb. The topic has been discussed many times over the years and has been deemed contradictory to the context of the jutsu's creation

- section about arguments that have been debunked many times
Click to expand...
Agree with this, its perfect
 
Yeah the point of the OP is to ward against repetitive arguments using the same flavor of evidence that’s been refuted dozens of times. If you come up with a never before seen argument that hasn’t been addressed that’s not going to get unjustly closed.
 
When someone said before that MAS's power should be measured by ETSO, they said that this statement does not include Shippuuden. I find this ridiculous. Boruto series is already a sequel to Naruto and even though we do not see Kaguya fighting in Boruto, Kaguya's name is mentioned many times. MAS>Why wouldn't the statment used to claim all jutsu also include ETSO that we see in Shippuuden? Kaguya's name is even mentioned in the explanation behind Boruto's 1st manga chapter. If you say that the statment that MAS is the strongest jutsu only covers the first 20 chapters of Boruto, then you have proven that MAS>Genin jutsu. It would be unnecessary for the person who wrote this statement to write a statment to indicate that MAS>Genin jutsu. In other words, I do not think that a statement like "the strongest in history" should necessarily be included. This was mostly used as an excuse so that no character would be scaled to 4-B.

As for Uzuhiko, I think this is a logical error. After all, the author can't know whether the characters are tier 4 or tier 5? If the universe is going to drop to tier 5 because one of the top tier characters of the tier 4 series performed a tier 5 AP feat, then with this logic, there should also be a rule that says One Piece can be max High 6-A. After all, Mother Flame was called the greatest power source and the strongest weapon of the series will flood the world. Flooding the world is High 6-A. All of the characters will be negatively affected by this situation. In that case, will OP's 5-C be dropped as well? I don't have any hatred towards One Piece, I wrote it as an example. I couldn't think of another series to give as an example.
 
I’ll tackle arguments later tonight or tomorrow, unless the cowboys/bucs lose then I’m coming here with a vengeance

Although what I will say is that while I don’t really mind Sparkles version, “new argumentation” is very exploitable based on an individuals subjective view of whether their argument is something new that hasn’t been addressed yet.

Not to mention I imagine everybody that goes out of their way to make ETSO CRTs feels like they’re tackling the argument in a way that has never been done before otherwise or that the topic hasn’t been handled properly.

“New argumentation” is a very vague way to handle a discussion rule that at the end of the day is meant to stop constant spam of the exact same thread with slightly different flavors.

Not to mention at the end of the day no matter how we spin it, there is one manga panel and a limited amount databook information describing ETSO and nothing more to its merit with 10+ CRTs every year for 10+ years.

I really doubt there is something that would change the game just with a slight change in argumentation compared to the very daunting amount of evidence to the contrary.

It just feels too conservative and invites people to loophole their argument as something that’s never been done before.

That’s just my take tho
 
Godernet said:
I’ll tackle arguments later tonight or tomorrow, unless the cowboys/bucs lose then I’m coming here with a vengeance

Although what I will say is that while I don’t really mind Sparkles version, “new argumentation” is very exploitable based on an individuals subjective view of whether their argument is something new that hasn’t been addressed yet.

Not to mention I imagine everybody that goes out of their way to make ETSO CRTs feels like they’re tackling the argument in a way that has never been done before otherwise or that the topic hasn’t been handled properly.

“New argumentation” is a very vague way to handle a discussion rule that at the end of the day is meant to stop constant spam of the exact same thread with slightly different flavors.

Not to mention at the end of the day no matter how we spin it, there is one manga panel and a limited amount databook information describing ETSO and nothing more to its merit with 10+ CRTs every year for 10+ years.

I really doubt there is something that would change the game just with a slight change in argumentation compared to the very daunting amount of evidence to the contrary.

That’s just my take tho
Click to expand...
Can you expand on why the below is an argument?

 
Samlex1234 said:
Can you expand on why the below is an argument?

Click to expand...
It would be more straight to the point if you elaborate on what you don’t like about the argument

At least imo it’s pretty straightforward
 
Godernet said:
I’ll tackle arguments later tonight or tomorrow, unless the cowboys/bucs lose then I’m coming here with a vengeance

Although what I will say is that while I don’t really mind Sparkles version, “new argumentation” is very exploitable based on an individuals subjective view of whether their argument is something new that hasn’t been addressed yet.

Not to mention I imagine everybody that goes out of their way to make ETSO CRTs feels like they’re tackling the argument in a way that has never been done before otherwise or that the topic hasn’t been handled properly.

“New argumentation” is a very vague way to handle a discussion rule that at the end of the day is meant to stop constant spam of the exact same thread with slightly different flavors.

Not to mention at the end of the day no matter how we spin it, there is one manga panel and a limited amount databook information describing ETSO and nothing more to its merit with 10+ CRTs every year for 10+ years.

I really doubt there is something that would change the game just with a slight change in argumentation compared to the very daunting amount of evidence to the contrary.

It just feels too conservative and invites people to loophole their argument as something that’s never been done before.

That’s just my take tho
Click to expand...
Tbf there are a lot of people (new members especially) that just don't know old threads have been made and/or their contents. Also, even if people recycle old arguments and say they're new, staff can point to the discussion rule's examples of old arguments and how these threads fall under one or multiple of them
 
Godernet said:
It would be more straight to the point if you elaborate on what you don’t like about the argument

At least imo it’s pretty straightforward
Click to expand...
Why does it stop Kaguya from scaling to her ETSO? Because she gathered chakra from the shinobi alliance? Or because the charkra she gathered was just a piece of what she added to the ETSO?,
 
Samlex1234 said:
Why does it stop Kaguya from scaling to her ETSO? Because she gathered chakra from the shinobi alliance? Or because the charkra she gathered was just a piece of what she added to the ETSO?,
Click to expand...
ETSO hits its max value off Kaguya pumping IT chakra into it for an unknown amount of time to continuously expand till it destroys the dimension.

Kaguya getting a piece of that IT chakra made her much stronger and faster than before.

Why would Base Kaguya’s individual punches and kicks or even regular ninjutsu scale to something she has to do overtime with a massive amount of outside chakra overtime, when her absorbing even a bit of it made her much stronger?

Base Kaguya ~ ETSO Max Potential > an unknown amount of time and a massive amount of chakra > IT Kaguya > Exponential AP and Speed Amp > Base Kaguya

It’s circular scaling and just doesnt make a lot of sense.

I can touch on why the Kurama amping the alliance thing doesn’t matter for IT chakra later if someone has or hasn’t brought it up yet I’m not sure.
 
Godernet said:
Although what I will say is that while I don’t really mind Sparkles version, “new argumentation” is very exploitable based on an individuals subjective view of whether their argument is something new that hasn’t been addressed yet.
Click to expand...
that's why he suggested listing types of arguments, if the staffs can determine the overall gist is more or less the same they can shut down the thread

Godernet said:
ETSO hits its max value off Kaguya pumping IT chakra into it for an unknown amount of time to continuously expand till it destroys the dimension.

Kaguya getting a piece of that IT chakra made her much stronger and faster than before.

Why would Base Kaguya’s individual punches and kicks or even regular ninjutsu scale to something she has to do overtime with a massive amount of outside chakra overtime, when her absorbing even a bit of it made her much stronger?

Base Kaguya ~ ETSO Max Potential > an unknown amount of time and a massive amount of chakra > IT Kaguya > Exponential AP and Speed Amp > Base Kaguya

It’s circular scaling and just doesnt make a lot of sense.

I can touch on why the Kurama amping the alliance thing doesn’t matter for IT chakra later if someone has or hasn’t brought it up yet I’m not sure.
Click to expand...
There isn't really any statement that tells us she is pumping energy every second while the process of the jutsu, it's finished production is what zetsu says so all which that requires addition of chakra is already done unless I'm missing something and this should scale to Kaguya post IT absorption and the only ones that would scale to that version of hers are maybe kakashi and momoshiki, Kinshiki.

The 15 timeframe is bogus it shouldn't be anymore than 10 minutes either due to the two statements implying it'll happen swiftly

Also Otsutsuki absorbing Chakra from the planets have always been to amplify their own physicals, that's why Shibai ascended to a higher dimension so the default assumption should be IT Chakra goes into Kaguya who makes the ETSO instead of IT chakra's one portion going to her and the other part going to ETSO
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yeah the point of the OP is to ward against repetitive arguments using the same flavor of evidence that’s been refuted dozens of times. If you come up with a never before seen argument that hasn’t been addressed that’s not going to get unjustly closed.
Click to expand...
thing is, coming up with "never before seen arguments" with no new information is incredibly difficult if not impossible. the two are at least somewhat related. you might still see some variations of recycled/repetitive arguments
 
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