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Kaguya Vs Yhwach Vs Zeref

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The Everlasting said:
Do I need to remind you that the feat was done super casually? Also, the + really doesn't mean anything, especially with how much faster Yhwach is.
The feat might have been casual but so were most of Kaguya's (except for the Expansive Truthseeking Orb) like effortlessly destroying Six Paths enhanced Perfect Susanoo three times during the fight which is Moon level as well. It doesn't matter how casual the feat is, he's still only Moon level until proven otherwise. Kaguya>Yhwach in attack potency.
 
The Everlasting said:
She needs to think to use teleportation, which she can't do against an opponent several times faster than her.

Considering how she was constantly injured by characters of a much lower tier, we can't consider that accurate. Besides, she could have just been planning to teleport to a different dimension to escape.
She split them apart because she wanted to absorb their chakra she didn't have any intention on killing them until her final moments so the argument "she would've killed Naruto and Sasuke easily"

Is irrelevant as she never wanted to do so for the most part.The only times she was hurt was when she was caught off guard or with senjutsu energy her weakness Yhwach doesn't utilize it...
 
Valar Melkor 2 said:
The Everlasting said:
Do I need to remind you that the feat was done super casually? Also, the + really doesn't mean anything, especially with how much faster Yhwach is.
The feat might have been casual but so were most of Kaguya's (except for the Expansive Truthseeking Orb) like effortlessly destroying Six Paths enhanced Perfect Susanoo three times during the fight which is Moon level as well. It doesn't matter how casual the feat is, he's still only Moon level until proven otherwise. Kaguya>Yhwach in attack potency.

There's more to a fight then AP bruh.....
 
Faisal got a Point, and the fact that Yhwach haxs didn't say he need a particular type of energy to steal makes it more of an assumtion saying he does need this energy as i said above Naruto haxs is different example This and This It says they need chakra.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ said:
The Everlasting said:
She needs to think to use teleportation, which she can't do against an opponent several times faster than her.

Considering how she was constantly injured by characters of a much lower tier, we can't consider that accurate. Besides, she could have just been planning to teleport to a different dimension to escape.
She split them apart because she wanted to absorb their chakra she didn't have any intention on killing them until her final moments so the argument "she would've killed Naruto and Sasuke easily"
Is irrelevant as she never wanted to do so for the most part.The only times she was hurt was when she was caught off guard or with senjutsu energy her weakness Yhwach doesn't utilize it...
So your telling me Sakura uses Senjutsu also? because i do remeber that she punched off kaguya's horn of her head...
 
The Everlasting said:
She needs to think to use teleportation, which she can't do against an opponent several times faster than her.
Considering how she was constantly injured by characters of a much lower tier, we can't consider that accurate. Besides, she could have just been planning to teleport to a different dimension to escape.
I get what you're saying about the speed difference but no she wasn't constantly being injured, she was only injured twice by Naruto who is equal to Yhwach in AP and once by a technique that ignores durability by Kakashi. She also easily regenerated from any damage done.
 
She split them apart because she wanted to absorb their chakra she didn't have any intention on killing them until her final moments so the argument "she would've killed Naruto and Sasuke easily"
Is irrelevant as she never wanted to do so for the most part.The only times she was hurt was when she was caught off guard or with senjutsu energy her weakness Yhwach doesn't utilize it...

So your telling me Sakura uses Senjutsu also? because i do remeber that she punched off kaguya's horn of her head...

The Sakura thing would fall under catching her off guard which is perfectly justified given she came from the byakugans blind spot and Kaguya focusing on Naruto and Sasuke so no.
 
GTgokussj4 said:
Faisal got a Point, and the fact that Yhwach haxs didn't say he need a particular type of energy to steal makes it more of an assumtion saying he does need this energy as i said above Naruto haxs is different example This and This It says they need chakra.
Kaguya put the whole planet under Genjutsu before they had chakra though.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ It says steals power of the opponent, not spirit energy. Ichimonji's power is Black, all the Black in the world. It's a conceptual ability, yet Yhwach stole it. Kaguya's power is not conceptual. Also nowhere Yhwach said he stole Ichimonji's reishi or reiastu, just his power. Yhwach stole blackness itself, not some spirit energy. You're underestimating Sankt Altar

H012
H014
H015
 
Pietro Maximoff said:
Not before Yhwach nullifies all incoming attacks using the almighty, it say's this on her page "Durability: At least Moon level (But her durability was portrayed very inconsistently. However, immortality and Regenerationn make her hard to kill.)"
It's a no limits fallacy to say Yhwach can nulify a planet level technique though.
 
GTgokussj4 said:
Faisal got a Point, and the fact that Yhwach haxs didn't say he need a particular type of energy to steal makes it more of an assumtion saying he does need this energy as i said above Naruto haxs is different example This and This It says they need chakra.
It's not a far off assumption to think it only relates to spiritual based powers. It would be weird for that description to say "can steal the powers of all reiatsu and reishi based abilities" because that's all they use in bleach. They never expect this to be compared to another fictions source of power, so they left out an exact definition/specification because they expect the reader to know what they are referring to.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ said:
She split them apart because she wanted to absorb their chakra she didn't have any intention on killing them until her final moments so the argument "she would've killed Naruto and Sasuke easily"
Is irrelevant as she never wanted to do so for the most part.The only times she was hurt was when she was caught off guard or with senjutsu energy her weakness Yhwach doesn't utilize it...
So your telling me Sakura uses Senjutsu also? because i do remeber that she punched off kaguya's horn of her head...
The Sakura thing would fall under catching her off guard which is perfectly justified given she came from the byakugans blind spot so no.

If she caught her off gaurd and didn't leave a mark on her, then yes i'll believe the whole senjutsu is her only weakness, but the fact that she punched off her horn off her head (When in reality it shouldn't even leave a mark) with no senjutsu makes the whole, senjutsu being her only weakness irrelevant....
 
@Faisal Shourov

I never said it did to begin with Bruh...

The other technique which he uses to absorb energy does however absorb spiritual energy as that's what they obviously utilize.

The fact of the matter is can Yhwach steal magic or any types of powers which aren't even reiatsu based .


To put it short here any power Yhwach allies is useless against him right?

How can he ally himself to powers which require chakra which he doesn't have....
 
She split them apart because she wanted to absorb their chakra she didn't have any intention on killing them until her final moments so the argument "she would've killed Naruto and Sasuke easily"
Is irrelevant as she never wanted to do so for the most part.The only times she was hurt was when she was caught off guard or with senjutsu energy her weakness Yhwach doesn't utilize it...

So your telling me Sakura uses Senjutsu also? because i do remeber that she punched off kaguya's horn of her head...
The Sakura thing would fall under catching her off guard which is perfectly justified given she came from the byakugans blind spot so no.

If she caught her off gaurd and didn't leave a mark on her, then yes i'll believe the whole senjutsu is her only weakness, but the fact that she punched off her horn off her head (When in reality it shouldn't even leave a mark) with no senjutsu makes the whole, senjutsu being her only weakness irrelevant....

LOOOL

If a character is injured while his guard is down it doesn't count for his durability .

Naruto and Goku would get Wall lvl durability if that was the case.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ said:
She split them apart because she wanted to absorb their chakra she didn't have any intention on killing them until her final moments so the argument "she would've killed Naruto and Sasuke easily"
Is irrelevant as she never wanted to do so for the most part.The only times she was hurt was when she was caught off guard or with senjutsu energy her weakness Yhwach doesn't utilize it...
So your telling me Sakura uses Senjutsu also? because i do remeber that she punched off kaguya's horn of her head...
The Sakura thing would fall under catching her off guard which is perfectly justified given she came from the byakugans blind spot so no.
If she caught her off gaurd and didn't leave a mark on her, then yes i'll believe the whole senjutsu is her only weakness, but the fact that she punched off her horn off her head (When in reality it shouldn't even leave a mark) with no senjutsu makes the whole, senjutsu being her only weakness irrelevant....LOOOL
If a character is injured while his guard is down it doesn't count for his durability .

Naruto and Goku would get Wall lvl durability if that was the case.


What's so funny???

I never said anything about durabilty.....
 
CHILLVIBEZZ Yes I think he can, he can steal Blackness itself, which is a concept. Yhwach stole Ichimonji's ability, you're restricting him too much by saying he can only steal from people who use spiritual energy. Since Sankt Altar steal abiltiies themselves, it's a very powerful hax when you think about it. Nothing about Sankt Altar speaks about energy source. It's like saying TSB won't work on Natsu since Natsu uses magic, not chakra. You get my point? No hax jutsu in narutoverse would work on people who use power cosmic in marvel
 
@Pietro Maximoff

You implied that her durability was bad because Sakura managed to damage her and leave a mark and I honestly care not if you believe senjutsu is her weakness or don't because it's already established in the series.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ said:
@Pietro Maximoff
You implied that her durability was bad because Sakura managed to damage her and leave a mark and I honestly care not if you believe senjutsu is her weakness because it's already established in the series.

I never implied that but ok, i never asked that you care or not but there multiples things that controdict the whole senjutsu is her only weakness but ok....
 
@faisal

Nah dude, he stole ichibeis power to manipulate darkness, which was again based off spiritual properties.

It doesn't mention an energy source because there is only one in bleach (spiritual power) which has a couple derivatives. They didn't specifically say which energy source because they don't expect the reader to confuse it with chakra or magic because those are unrelated to bleach.
 
Sheoth said:
@faisal
Nah dude, he stole ichibeis power to manipulate darkness, which was again based off spiritual properties.

It doesn't mention an energy source because there is only one in bleach (spiritual power) which has a couple derivatives. They didn't specifically say which energy source because they don't expect the reader to confuse it with chakra or magic because those are unrelated to bleach.
The same for Naruto, no Naruto hax would work on people who uses power cosmic in marvel. We can't limit energy source that way, it would create a lot of problems. You see the point? Comparing power sources only only make haxes irrelevant outside respective verses. Beerus can't nullify surfer's energy blasts since Ki is completely different from power cosmic. Thus making Beerus' hax useless
 
Faisal Shourov said:
CHILLVIBEZZ Yes I think he can, he can steal Blackness itself, which is a concept. Yhwach stole Ichimonji's ability, you're restricting him too much by saying he can only steal from people who use spiritual energy. Since Sankt Altar steal abiltiies themselves, it's a very powerful hax when you think about it. Nothing about Sankt Altar speaks about energy source. It's like saying TSB won't work on Natsu since Natsu uses magic, not chakra. You get my point? No hax jutsu in narutoverse would work in Fairy Tail that way
That blackness including everything in the bleach series except humans is reiatsu based so no.And stealing abilities he can't use due to requiring another type of energy is factual.

The example of TSB does not apply in this case most of your examples honestly don't at all.....

TSB does not target chakra based things and it inflicts damage on anything as shown you think I'm implying bleach powers won't work on Naruto???

No what referring to are Yhwach"s powers stealing abilities which aren't reiatsu based is pure speculation so you'd need to come up with another argument than that.

As I said any power he allies will become useless against him. How can he ally himself to non reiatsu based powers?
 
That's not the same thing though. Yhwachs ability is explicitly stealing other powers which runs into some problems when compared to other fictions that use different power sources.

Other types of hax like aizens shikai would work on any Naruto character because it affects something that they all have, the senses. Something like Amaterasu would work on some of the bleach cast because it is directly damage dealing and doesn't rely on other factors. Now ,genjutsu for example wouldn't work on anyone outside of Naruto because no one else has chakra to exploit.

See what I'm saying?
 
CHILLVIBEZZ Im saying comparing power source is not a good way to measure effectiveness of hax. If Sankt Altar wasn't a powerful hax nobody would raise question about it. I understand that.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ said:
Faisal Shourov said:
CHILLVIBEZZ Yes I think he can, he can steal Blackness itself, which is a concept. Yhwach stole Ichimonji's ability, you're restricting him too much by saying he can only steal from people who use spiritual energy. Since Sankt Altar steal abiltiies themselves, it's a very powerful hax when you think about it. Nothing about Sankt Altar speaks about energy source. It's like saying TSB won't work on Natsu since Natsu uses magic, not chakra. You get my point? No hax jutsu in narutoverse would work in Fairy Tail that way
That blackness including everything in the bleach series except humans is reiatsu based so no.And stealing abilities he can't use due to requiring another type of energy is factual.
The example of TSB does not apply in this case most of your examples honestly don't at all.....

TSB does not target chakra based things and it inflicts damage on anything as shown you think I'm implying bleach powers won't work on Naruto???

No what referring to are Yhwach"s powers stealing abilities which aren't reiatsu based is pure speculation so you'd need to come up with another argument than that.

As I said any power he allies will become useless against him. How can he ally himself to non reiatsu based powers?

So the color on Urahara hat is reshi based to????
 
Faisal Shourov said:
CHILLVIBEZZ Im saying comparing power source is not a good way to measure effectiveness of hax. If Sankt Altar wasn't a powerful hax nobody would raise question about it. I understand that.
It's a battle we have to determine whether or not the arguments provided would be valid.If they're isn't any verse equalization than he can't given what's shown.
 
Zerefs death wave is omnidirectional lol, his time stop can stop Kaguya unless she goes to her dimension, Kaguya gets stomped by Zeref if Yhwach wasn't there. Yhwach stomps Zeref to hell sadly.

The mismatch is still better than Kubo's drawing :3

Also city level durability is just a speculation as well as hypersonic+ speed, we don't know yet.
 
Sheoth said:
That's not the same thing though. Yhwachs ability is explicitly stealing other powers which runs into some problems when compared to other fictions that use different power sources.
Other types of hax like aizens shikai would work on any Naruto character because it affects something that they all have, the senses. Something like Amaterasu would work on some of the bleach cast because it is directly damage dealing and doesn't rely on other factors. Now ,genjutsu for example wouldn't work on anyone outside of Naruto because no one else has chakra to exploit.

See what I'm saying?
I know what you're saying, but vs threads need equalization by default regarding hax. Otherwise different power sources never work too well together (for ex- Ki vs power cosmic). Genjutsu is treated as telepathy on comicvine, and I agree with them somewhat. What Im saying we have to be lenient towards power source despite their little differences. We're doing crossverse fights after all, there must be common ground for both party. By good hax I mean energy nullification of Beerus which would be useless against power cosmic based energy blast (it's similar to Sankt Altar and chakra case)

Verse equalization is necessary by default for hax is what Im saying. Otherwise plenty of good hax will become useless. And you're reading into spiritual energy too much i think
 
Mavis' immortality is type 4 which can only be overridden by someone with the status of God, same for Zeref. Learn your facts b4 you type. No, Kaguya is not the type of God, unless you've seen her doing curses that take away/give immortality. Zeref will still get atomized because of the DC differences.
 
What about this move definition ? does it change anything.

Auswähle (ÞüûÕêÑ (ÒéóÒéªÒé╣Òâ┤ÒéºÒâ╝Òâ¼Òâ│), Ausuvēre; German for "Select", Japanese for "Holy Selectio"; "Consecration" in the Viz release): After 990 years of being sealed away, Yhwach used this ability to restore his lost powers. After selecting Quincy whom he deems impure, including those with mixed blood, Yhwach can steal their powers and make them his own. This process is ultimately fatal to its victims, particularly those who are already weak. Upon Yhwach's activation of this ability, his targets are engulfed in massive columns of light. Even being near the columns of light is enough to strip a Quincy of their power. It absorbs energy from those Quincy judged to be unnecessary and sends it to those who need it in a redistribution of power. Those taken from will perish, while those on the receiving end are revitalized with greater strength than they possessed before. It transfers not physical accumulations of Reishi, but pure energy. As such, even Kirio Hikifune's Cage of Life, which blocks all spiritual matter, cannot prevent its use.
 
@Faisal

Yeah I see what you mean. It would probably be best if people mentioned in the op if there was verse equalization. Some fights work without it, but others also can't simply function without it...
 
Sheoth said:
@Faisal
Yeah I see what you mean. It would probably be best if people mentioned in the op if there was verse equalization. Some fights work without it, but others also can't simply function without it...
The hax that work without power equalization are mostly weak hax, while Sankt Altar is a powerful one (same for Beerus energy nullification). Characters who use strong hax on regular basis should have verse equalization. And verse equalization is the best thing to do for crossverse fight, both party can play fairly. Otherwise there would be endless bickering and inconclusive matches
 
@Faisal

Well I think it's more so hax that affects a specific line of abilities as opposed to hax that is weak.

Take flashes speed steal for example. It's incredibly broken but doesn't have any conflict with other series because speed is something everyone has.
 
Sheoth said:
@Faisal
Well I think it's more so hax that affects a specific line of abilities as opposed to hax that is weak.

Take flashes speed steal for example. It's incredibly broken but doesn't have any conflict with other series because speed is something everyone has.
Well as you said it depends, thats' why we need verse equalization so that there is no lengthy debate about power source. And I haven't seen verse equalization favouring any particular verse. It's very reasonable imo
 
Well as you said it depends, thats' why we need verse equalization so that there is no lengthy debate about power source. And I haven't seen verse equalization favouring any particular verse. It's very reasonable imo

True, it is a good thing. It can hilariously screw someone else over as well though. Like Yhwach being unstoppable in this fight because of it.
 
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