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Kaguya Houraisan vs Novel Kars

She doesn't have prior knowledge on there existence? So stopping Kars probably won't stop them. Killer queen isnt apart of kars so even if he got stuck, it wouldnt. And itd act automatically from within triggering BTD sending Kars back in time one hour.
 
These are stands. Unless these come out of nowhere and attack, Kaguya freezing Kars will also freeze them.

Automatically doesn't mean anything if it's frozen.

Also like I said, if she "freezes" the current situation, she won't even need to target Kars.

You're seriously reaching now, by saying that his Stands would just get by untargeted just because they got "borrowed". Still from his own powers.
 
It won't freeze killer queen. He's not Kars, or his stand or even apart of him, he's a seperate entity.


If she decides to freeze Kars, or make it so she cant be harmed? Cool, neither do anything to killer queen who goes back in time. Even making it so she cant be attacked, btd doesn't attack her.
 
Separate entity summoned and used by Kars. If she fights Ichirin, she won't lose because "oops Unzan can be summoned so he beats her."

You're just trying to find loopholes now. Going back in time is a change. She can stop it from happening. Simple.
 
It actually isn't summoned by Kars. He just tells it what to do. It isnt apart of him, it isnt his. Killer Queen will act to protect Kars without even making itself known. And you can say " oh it'll freeze him too", but it wont, unless she is already aware of it previously. Why would freezing one thing efgect sonething completely unrelated, especially one that she isn't aware even exusts.

And no she won't. She doesnt know about killer queen, and she won't know what it is gonna do , at all, it wont even be a too late kind of thing , time will be reverted to a previous state. So even if she could, she won't, because she doesn't and won't know.
 
Kaguya can freeze entire situations/places. She doesn't need and probably won't just freeze Kars if she is serious (Which she likely is given that the OP states bloodlust). Apply "Eternity" to the current situation and boom neither Kars nor anyone that isn't Kaguya can do anything.

Also does it just hangs around Kars or is it "inside" him like most stands? I don't see why it would be immune to Kaguya's effect if it's the latter and she will certainly freeze it if it's just hanging around.
 
You know rereading about her words and how Yorihime speaks about how the instantenous is perceived... It almost seems to imply that Lunarians can perceive the 4th dimension aka time itself ovo

As fun of an ability to speculate as Yukari's tbh.

But yeah honestly, her body itself already rejects change naturally. Eternity is like that supersized nail to that supersized coffin. Killer Queen's Bite the Dust is itself a change of time so it should be affected.
 
But has she? I'd like a scan. And anyway, then what? She can't do that forever, what? Ignoring the fact she can't kill him. You saying she'd put the world in a stasis forever? And besides this is ignoring the fact he's still likely adapt, Why can't he? Because he'd be locked and can't move or taken action? Ya mean kinda like Giorno Giovanna? Him not being able to adapt, move or being locked in an instant in time wont stop him. Abd this is implying she actually decides to do something that would encompass killer queen, if not thats an automatuc defeat.


Neither or, its inside Kira. Who Kars ate.
 
She can? She did it for years. And it's specifically ETERNITY manipulation. She can just put the battleground in stasis there.

Giorno has a totally different kind of hax. Don't bring it up.

Bloodlusted. Your arguments also rely on Kars doing very specific things.

So it IS inside Kars. You're just talking semantics about who's the stand true owner when it doesn't matter one bit there.
 
Nor what i asked, i askef for a scan. And yet she cant kill him.

I'll bring it up all I like, its hax that does the same thing just through a different method, and his hax is actually on a higher scale than what she can do. And he completely no sells it.

Not really, basically anything Kars will do is enough, he Also leads with time stop. It matters here because yeah she'd do it, but specifics matter, stop Kars? Wont do anything to killer queen , prevent him from damaging her? Wont do anything to killer queen. So and so forth.

No it's inside Kira, yeah I am, it matters greatly actually, hand wave it all you want but it matters wether you agree or not, depending on what happens it could gimp her and give her an automatic defeat. Becayse like it or not, semantics or not, it isnt jars, it isnt apart if Kars , it doesn't damage her nor attack her and she cant prevent it from going back in time if she doesn't know of its existence.
 
Yeah, I was gonna ask exactly how she plans on harming a stand considering she doesn't know it exists or the fact that you need to be a stand user to even see it or interact with it.

If KQ isn't apart of Kira how is she affecting it? And if she keeps doing the same thing Kars WILL adapt. Kira kept blowing Kars up with bombs that leave literally no trace and he ended up adapting.
 
@Jayslice

Yes. That's why ghosts are incapable of harming Stands and dragging them into hell that is called an alleyway that would drag any being who turns back into some sort of hellish purgatory place and are thus completely untouchable and that not even god himself would be able to interact with them.

Not.

Anyone who can interact with spirits can interact with Stands. And invisible spirits exists in Touhou.

In any case, permanently preventing any change from possibly happening to one person is completely different from destroying everyone in a subatomic manner or beyond. It's like comparing a nuke that explodes repeatedly to a black hole or a time stop. It just doesn't make sense/connect together.

@TheJ-Man

You know typically people would be happy that someone is on their side in an argument.

Btw how many votes do we have?
 
Because i don't feel like debating, and it'll fall on me. And he just contradicted me. Oh and by the way, not quite, ghosts can't touch it harm Stands, the alleyway is an exception, not the rule. And kars has adapted to things on a higher scale than what he'd need to adapt to here. Including two that have a similar effect.

And once again. Killer queen isnt apart of, connected to or belongs to Kars, effecting Kars wouldn't do anything to killer queen whod just rewind time. The instant he got frozen.
 
That's just the world of debating, though we debate anyway. You lost me, what part of his argument contradicts yours? Just making sure. Might be sleepiness getting at me so I'll check on whatever you respond tomorrow. There's no exception to it. And even without that in mind, claiming Stands are untouchable or unseeable by people who deal with fantastical beings all the time, and also by the same person who can interact with instants of time (literal instants) is an NLF.

Because it's eternity manipulation. It's going to affect everyone and everything. It has been compared to time stopping after all but on a grander scale. And really with bloodlust there's really nothing that could explain eternity manipulation won't be used instantly and it's certainly not a single target ability.

Anyway counting votes before I go.

Second of thought too sleepy
 
And? I'm the only person who actually has any knowledge on the character who partake in these threads, its tiresome.

>claims not.

>in the same sentence states a nlf .

I didn't actually say that was the case, im just saying the alley way was an exception to that. Ghosts have failed to touch stands before.

And? Furst off, it was likened Tina time stop, so? Every time she ever used it it fudntbeffect litterally everything, if she decided to use it on Kars itd likely be just Kars, there's no precedent for claiming she'd lock lityerally everything in the area in place. Why would she use it on something that she isnt even aware exists at all? An then he follows up with rewinding time before she even is aware it exists.

Also even then, kars has adapted to worse.
 
Many share those thoughts. Probably not the only one my friend.

Since when? It's a mighty big imprint of spiritual things can interact with ghosts.

She would use it on the Person who she's bloodlusted to take out and kill because both are bloodlusted and he's the only thing there and that's her go-to ability. That's why. And cause she pretty much influenced Eintei with it. That's like saying a bloodlusted Saitama won't punch his enemy in a serious fashion, or claiming a bloodlusted Dio won't time stop and kill someone with a punch barrage before they could move.

I'll take your word for it. But see this is like comparing reactive adaptation to death. If you can take a hit and instantly adapt to it, you do great. But if you might as well be killed and you can't even recover or got your ability shut down, it's GG.
 
Itd be nice if people actually read the book then. Because beingblitterally the only person who has that actually debates is bothersome and debating against like 5 people at once. If no one actually knows anything about the character why make the thread.

Ya kinda just proved my point. Shed target Kars. Luckily killer queen has nothing to do with Kars, he's a completely unattached entity.

Actually you'd be surprised, he may have actually retroactively adapted after a death before and his past self gained immunity.
 
And I know about Kars, but you certainly went much deeper into his character than I would have thought to.

I pretty much know him for adapting and evolving like crazy and pretty much no selling everything casually.
 
Maybe they don't want to? *shrug* Can't be helped in that case.

You realize that by targeting Kars, she's targetting everything around? I mean I was just talking about this replies ago.

Nice. Kaguya's ability is still not that.
 
But here's the thing, so? Who cares if he didn't adapt to it on story, if he did he wouldbt need to adapt to it here and if we cant use it in vs debates to say he can adapt to stuff then why even use the character, as it currently is Kars has adapted to powers, including ones with a similar effect but on a higher scale, in an instant. He already proved he can no sell hax that is above what hed need to adapt here
 
Your argument is based on the assumption that he can recover and adapt the moment he cannot change anything about himself anymore or all change in him is rejected

That's about the same argument as some guy who can heal incredibly fast as long as he doesn't die, dying. That's like someone who can copy any move they see, being stopped in time forever. But I'm severely nerfing the comparison here. Also in this case, he gets hit instead with the power that pretty much negates every change.

It's an ability that pretty much is the bane of reactive adapters
 
Yeah? He can only completely no sold low 2-C ger who can make it so nobody can , eill or want to take action on a universal+ scale.
 
Cool, it's like they're the exact same abilities right? And the mechanisms of GER is exactly like Eternity Manipulation and its own effects isn't just a "Turn the effect to zero" but is also "You are permanently stopped" right?

Oh wait....
 
Regardless of scale if even for the briefest second Kars is allowed to adapt, he will get the chance. that's why GER failed. It's like a tranquilizer gun that can put down an elephant and completely ignores anything you can possibly do as a skill.

Eternity Manipulation is like a bullet to the brain.
 
In the nivel? A bit closer .

And you're missing the point. Both can negate powers, both can prevent any action and lock people into a state. But ger is far higher, and even higher in the novel, and he dud nothing but stomp Pucci and sent him to a world of ceaseless motion and time, than a minute later got killed because he couldn't do anything.

If Kars can no sell an abiloty he logically shouldn't, which should prevent any adaption or no selling anyway but did, which happens to be far higher in scale? He can adapt here.
 
See that's also an annoying part about having only one guy aware of one franchise. How can we classify how legit a statement is? This happened before in Getbackers in a site after all. But anyway that's not really relevant, I already said that GER is stronger than Eternity in scale but not in lasting time.

You're missing the point my friend. I do not deny the scale of GER. What I deny is that it's always turned on. Notice how when it's used on someone, it doesn't permanently put them into zero? Aka the same place, same point of time, same state, and same everything? It very briefly RESETS them. Eternity means you're stuck there for... oh... what's the word.... ah yes. ETERNITY.

My helpful comparisons have been laid out there, I'm running out of metaphors sadly.

How about this.

A person who can always get stronger if you hit him no matter what.

However if he dies, he can't use the ability anymore. Therefore, the ability is Moot.


But let me say this once.

I have never denied GER's scale of magnitude. What I deny is whether it's going to keep active forever like Kaguya.

Kars isn't going to get the chance to take a breather.
 
GER knew he was dangerous, just got finished showing off his powers in the future and wanted DIO dead. Nothing came out if it, nothing it could do worked, and reminder he is infinite in speed, there would have been no time to adapt at all. And yes, once active it's active forever , especially on people he wanted dead. Pucci is an example. He put his effect on him permanetly.

And I can get screencap if needed.
 
See I would agree with, but it's not about the speed. It's about the lasting time. The moment Kars got even a nanosecond to breathe, that was it. He recovered. He wins. That's how he overcame that ability.

No. If the ability was permanent, a person would just be permanently rendered into Zero. Not permanently Relooping into Zero. It's like having your software crash after every minute or so.

Eternity Manipulation is a permanent shut down and wipeout. It's gone. It's GG. That's it.

Of Kars outdoing his own death or the GER thing? Not really necessary considering that's not even utilizable here anymore.
 
Oh and by the way, there may actually be an instance of kars in the past getting stronger and adapting to something his future self couldnt, which would mean that comparison may be moot in itself, only reason it isnt listed would be because hell if i understand that scene.
 
.....

Uh.... let's use the "It just works" rule like we did for King Crimson? That sounds so paradoxical tbh, or just... uh... I don't know

By the way, where would you recc to read the novel? Is it on sale online or something?
 
Except you're wrong, Pucci was put into that state forever , couldn't take action, couldn't even want to taje action. He's still in that state.

And no it isn't. When ta figure out why you're gonna kick yourself.

Yeah, he can do that to, he kinda nullified his own death , ignoring what he did to Pucci . It doesnt last a mere second than over, it van last for litterally forever .

Of most things, and what, why wouldn't it be?
 
Ya gotta find it. And even then, I've read it like 5 times, still Missing shit here and there because almost everything got glossed over in one liners, in a 750 page book. But no, im enturely sure that actually did happen, but that whole thing was odd.

Kars kinda is a literal walking NLF that has a shit ton of one liner abilities and much more that still arebt on the profile. DIO or jpji are far easier, what ya see with them , what what ya get.
 
You know at first I thought you were talking about Diavolo... but are you GER was the one who did that? I can't find any sources regarding that.

Pretty sure it is,

Nlullified your death =/= nullifying the ability that can nullify anything, even the instance of time itself

Cause this argument falls on whether or not Kars can adapt to the ability like he did to GER and it's all based on time.

Oh how fun that makes things a blast to read.
 
Kaguya's Eternity Manipulation is like Ren's Time Armor: Works like time stop, but in reality is an stagnation to the point of immutability.
 
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