Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Guacamolefletcher]

During the Cursya fight Maki is stated to be incapable of fully utilising her body; Miyo states that her muscles are slacking where Maki's entire lesson from Miyo was to grow stronger, and after his lesson it's stated that everything about her is now different and that she's grown to new heights as a fighter equal to Toji for the first time in 12 years. We know all of this can't be "just a skill thing" given prior to this point curse womb Naoya was able to evade her attack as she was already throwing a punch by a massive distance difference but then a fully evolved curse Naoya - going at his max speed - is casually evaded by Maki at point blank range and is consistently tagged by her punches. This isn't to say that the previous statement of her bodily strength being equal to Toji is wrong, but it is to say that without a particular skill set that Maki could not bring out her full physical capabilities until now. She had the physicality to do these things, but her mind wasn't allowing her too.

Now that I saw how to read this shit (checking what chapter and page it is from just the link), lets see

I edited the links for these responses so they work

During the Cursya fight Maki is stated to be incapable of fully utilising her body; Miyo states that her muscles are slacking

Holy ****, you can't be stretching the meaning this much

where Maki's entire lesson from Miyo was to grow stronger

That scan doesn't prove that though? Also what the f*ck? Did we read the same sh*t? It's clearly about becoming a looser fighter. It's like an art teacher telling you to have a looser shoulder.

and after his lesson it's stated that everything about her is now different

Holy ****, you can't be stretching this THIS MUCH. It's about her attitude and how loose and free she feels afterwards. You can look like an entirely different person without it "being stated that everything about her is now different"

and that she's grown to new heights as

No? This time I can't figure out what scan it is, but this never happened in a way that suggests she got a stat amp

a fighter equal to Toji for the first time in 12 years.

She had Toji stats, but Toji stats isn't what makes someone completely equal to Toji.
Hence they say "has been FULLY REALIZED". She had only PARTIALLY REALIZED herself as a fighter equal to Toji before this, and then became a fighter fully equal to Toji.

We know all of this can't be "just a skill thing" given prior to this point curse womb Naoya was able to evade her attack as she was already throwing a punch by a massive distance difference

Yeah, makes sense, he dodged obvious stiff moves, with speed equal to Toji.

but then a fully evolved curse Naoya - going at his max speed - is casually evaded by Maki at point blank range and is consistently tagged by her punches.

Ok HERE we get to the real stuff.

First, this doesn't show he was going at max speed when she tagged him. It takes him a LONG time to build up to mach 3, and he stopped moving prior to charging at Maki in those other pictures, where she dodged.

When she dodged Naoya in the air, he stopped and said "what the f**ck" before she even hit the ground

To charge up to mach 3, he needs to charge up way more, move to a way further distance, and go in circles for a bit, while here he went immediately to hitting Maki.

Also this "point-blank" range shit is just out of context stuff, because we know Gege always draws like this when he's depicting high-speed movement and people narrowly dodging stuff they're way way way way way slower than.

Using this logic, you'd think Yuji is equal to piercing blood, or **** it, even way faster:

You'd think "Damn Yuji is way faster than piercing blood! He dodged it from point-blank range!"
when from the 10+ meters away that it was fired, he barely dodged it and still got tagged.


You'd say, "Yuji consistently dodges piercing blood!" using this logic, when he's obviously way slower, and gets blitzed by a non-full-speed Naoya.


You'd say "damn, Maki caught the bullet from literally 5cm away"
When she'd consistently fought Mai evenly beforehand, is much slower than the speed of sound, and on top of that she caught it with the arm extended. She didn't move her hand close to her face, she caught it with her arm completely extended. There was way more room between her and the bullet in actuality


Hence, we can't use this logic to claim "oh she's consistently Naoya-level in speed, when she's clearly not, and she has to learn how to predict Naoya's weird 24fps supersonic movement to beat him.

This isn't to say that the previous statement of her bodily strength being equal to Toji is wrong, but it is to say that without a particular skill set that Maki could not bring out her full physical capabilities until now. She had the physicality to do these things, but her mind wasn't allowing her too.

Yeah, she couldn't use her full Toji-level stuff, aka she couldn't use that precog and wasn't as good of a fighter, but her stats didn't change. Her brain didn't get rewired to give her a 3+ times stat amp to go from subsonic (mach .79), slower than Mach 1 Human Naoya, to supersonic+ or even Mhs+. I'm not done yet tho, this is just part 1

 

[Nierre]

deadass i cannot tell if arkenis is trolling right now or not

 

[YukaSama4]

I'll break it down.

Higuruma learned barrier techs and reinforcement and became a first grade in 12 days
A month later without any known training he does Domain Amp and RCT.

The story always has his accomplishments accompanied with "in such short time too omg".

So why did he not learn RCT within the month yet Yuji could? A character who is constantly reinforced by Sukuna that he's unimpressive?

Thats not an inconsistency at all
Yuji, Hakari, Yuta, Megumi and Higu are all stated to have a potential similar to Gojo


Yet there are differences with how each one is progressing, you're ignoring the fact that Higu is still as talented as Gojo, who didn't learn that until he was near death

Yuji is also someone with the potential to become as good as Gojo so I don't understand why you keep repeating this "why he couldn't but Yuji could" as if Yuji a no one

They all progress in different ways and they are all with the potential to become as good as Gojo, if you can't get this then it's your problem because there's no inconsistency here honestly

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I'll break it down.

Higuruma learned barrier techs and reinforcement and became a first grade in 12 days
A month later without any known training he does Domain Amp and RCT.

The story always has his accomplishments accompanied with "in such short time too omg".

So why did he not learn RCT within the month yet Yuji could? A character who is constantly reinforced by Sukuna that he's unimpressive?


That's literally what you guys have been doing for this whole discussion.
Me: "Why can't Higuruma have learned RCT within a month?"
Yall: "Well because sorcerers grow when consequences to suffer" "Well Gojo only learned at death" "Well its Yuji's just that guy"
Yuji: I did it in a month...

You still not addressing my arguments.

Why did Shoko learn RCT long before Gojo, despite Gojo having the Six Eyes and better talent than any other sorcerer? Why did it take him 15 years?

RCT isn't showcased as a skill acquired through training, from what I've seen. Have you seen Geto or Yaga using RCT? Let's consider Gojo's own words regarding two of students called talent based, Todo and Hakari. Where are their RCT abilities showcased?

You're the only one acting as though just because someone is labeled a genius, they should automatically acquire RCT without exceptions.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

All talented sorcerers but only when the plot demands it they grow?

Yes, precisely. This is Sukuna Kaisen.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yuji is stated to have the potential to one day not only surpass Gojo but make the categorisation of "special grade" itself meaningless, are we REALLY shocked that Yuji is growing at the fastest rate in the series?

Thats not an inconsistency at all
Yuji, Hakari, Yuta, Megumi and Higu are all stated to have a potential similar to Gojo


Yet there are differences with how each one is progressing, you're ignoring the fact that Higu is still as talented as Gojo, who didn't learn that until he was near death

Yuji is also someone with the potential to become as good as Gojo so I don't understand why you keep repeating this "why he couldn't but Yuji could" as if Yuji a no one

They all progress in different ways and they are all with the potential to become as good as Gojo, if you can't get this then it's your problem because there's no inconsistency here honestly

It's also possible Yuji just got it way before Higuruma due to Sukuna using it on him before and his body got a little better understanding instinctively and a muscle memory lol.

 

[Arkenis]

Yuji is stated to have the potential to one day not only surpass Gojo but make the categorisation of "special grade" itself meaningless, are we REALLY shocked that Yuji is growing at the fastest rate in the series?

The problem is how Gege is portraying it lmao. How are ya not getting this?

deadass i cannot tell if arkenis is trolling right now or not

If you saw the story how I see it you'd have the same issue. The story flip flops on how accurate its previous portrayal of a character is and then throws it out the window when the plot demands it. Like cool its a developing a story but at some point we gotta realize Gege's just throwing stuff at the wall and everyone's going "wow omg sorcery fighting hehe" like there's nothing's wrong.

Yuji is also someone with the potential to become as good as Gojo so I don't understand why you keep repeating this "why he couldn't but Yuji could" as if Yuji a no one

Yuji is a nobody to Sukuna. That's what I'm going off right now, I brought this up before. Who's more reliable when it comes to Yuji? Gojo, his sensei, or Sukuna, the soul inside him for months? The greatest sorcerer in the series skill wise?

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Part 2, response to Rosa:

She wasn't losing. Firstly, Maki was already suffering from blood loss, fatigue, and injury - which the narrator states is putting her at a disadvantage against Naoya.

Ok, but this only impacted her stamina.
ALSO that's the Werry version. TCB says this, which doesn't mean she was nerfed because of blood loss

Secondly, we see throughout the fight Maki was counting the time frames of Naoya's movement whilst blocking his hits,

what the f*ck are you talking about?
She was getting outsped. I surely hope you're not trying to say that she was holding back or letting herself get tagged, because that's headcanon. What the hell was she blocking here? She got tagged:

and Maki explains later that Naoya's speed wasn't the issue but it was his cursed technique which made him so notable

BRUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Missing the point insanely.

She says "You and Naobito aren't JUST FAST". Copied and pasted the dialogue, beacuse I reached the Imgur hourly limit here, but what she says is off is the 24fps movement. They act every 1/24th of a second. That's unusual.

something her body can now see through as heavenly restriction users aren't as affected by cursed techniques (there's a lot of evidence for this, but I'm fairly certain it's already accepted so I won't both searching for all the scans).

What the f*ck are you talking about? She literally says she can only see his 24fps movement once she has that HR. that's not being unaffected by a cursed technique, that's gaining better perceptions...

Either way, Maki does outright move faster than Naoya when she does a 180 turn and punches him before he can even react.

Literally not understanding how projection sorcery works. What he does 1 second in advance is pre-planned.
Copying and pasting it:
"BY DIVIDING ONE SECOND INTO 24 FRAMES AND USING ONE'S FIELD OF VIEW AS THE ANGLE OF VIEW... THE USER CAN TRACE A PREDETER- MINED SET OF MOVEMENTS."
They're pre-determined, which is what we see with Naoya vs Choso, where Naoya only responded to FRS Choso BECAUSE he planned on Choso's response.

You have to be a Makisexual to claim she's faster than Naoya or blitzed him. Also, he literally reacts, but can't do anything because his movement is pre-planned and if he doesn't abide by it, he's frozen for 1 second. This is how projection sorcery works. As for "moving faster," it's only actually mach .79, so unlucky.

Conclusion: Maki and Toji are near the speed of sound, but they're definitively slower. However, they can counter faster characters, such as Mach 1 or supersonic (but not Mach 3) Naoya by using their analytical prediction and unleashing pre-planned punches.

 

[YukaSama4]

It's also possible Yuji just got it way before Higuruma due to Sukuna using it on him before and his body got a little better understanding instinctively and a muscle memory lol.

It seems to me that Higu might be the one progressing in a way similar to Gojo

While they all are approaching that level, Higu is progressing similar to Gojo
Learnt RCT when he was near death
Sukuna said "he's operating his CT on a level close to mine" while we know from Gojo that Sukuna is on his skill in manipulating CTs

 

[Duedate8898]

I'm impressed that two whole separate arguments are happening right now

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Yuji is a nobody to Sukuna. That's what I'm going off right now, I brought this up before. Who's more reliable when it comes to Yuji? Gojo, his sensei, or Sukuna, the soul inside him for months? The greatest sorcerer in the series skill wise?

Gojo lmao. Sukuna couldn't believe that Yuji was able to learn RCT.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I'm impressed that two whole separate arguments are happening right now

IDEK what the **** the Higuruma one is about, I'm just turning against Rosa on Maki being supersonic+

deadass i cannot tell if arkenis is trolling right now or not

I thought he was trolling yesterday, NGL. I was surprised to hear he wasn't trolling.

 

[YukaSama4]

Yuji is a nobody to Sukuna. That's what I'm going off right now, I brought this up before. Who's more reliable when it comes to Yuji? Gojo, his sensei, or Sukuna, the soul inside him for months? The greatest sorcerer in the series skill wise?

Ofc I will say Gojo and I'm gonna quote you here when Yuji ***** on Sukuna at the end of the manga

You're saying Sukuna is more reliable and Gege is inconsistent and has no clue about what's he doing

Im saying Gojo is more reliable on this and its supported by the narrative which you're ignoring and blaming Gege for it

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yuji is a nobody to Sukuna. That's what I'm going off right now, I brought this up before. Who's more reliable when it comes to Yuji? Gojo, his sensei, or Sukuna, the soul inside him for months? The greatest sorcerer in the series skill wise?

Gojo, his sensei or Sukuna, the number 1 Yuji hater you mean

 

[YukaSama4]

Arkenis is ready to go against the manga when it comes down to his views

A few days ago he was saying we shouldn't trust Gojo on CE manipulation matters because he wanted to cap the ******* verse forever

Now he's saying Gege is inconsistent and Gojo doesn't know about Yuji while Sukuna is the most reliable one about this

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This thread name is wild
Thread 'Lobotomy Corporation Discussion 2' https://vsbattles.com/threads/lobotomy-corporation-discussion-2.54864/

 

[Rosa]

Yeah, makes sense, he dodged obvious stiff moves, with speed equal to Toji.

so for most of your message is you going to each statement and saying "are you really going to stretch the definition of stronger to infer she got stronger?!" whilst claiming it's a skill thing and purely a skill thing, but then you say this. If you admit she's fighting with "stiff moves" which make her easier to dodge, you agree then that she's faster afterwards?

First, this doesn't show he was going at max speed when she tagged him. It takes him a LONG time to build up to mach 3, and he stopped moving prior to charging at Maki in those other pictures, where she dodged.

Naoya literally says he'll punch through her whilst he's going at "top speed" and in the panel right before she turned around the narrator confirms Naoya had reached "top speed". No where in the fight did Naoya stop either, you made that up.

When she dodged Naoya in the air, he stopped and said "what the f**ck" before she even hit the ground

To charge up to mach 3, he needs to charge up way more, move to a way further distance, and go in circles for a bit, while here he went immediately to hitting Maki.

He didn't stop, the air beneath him is still exploding which is the indication of him stacking on projection sorcery.

Also this "point-blank" range shit is just out of context stuff, because we know Gege always draws like this when he's depicting high-speed movement and people narrowly dodging stuff they're way way way way way slower than.

Headcanon. If we see a character dodge something at point blank range in this manner, then it's a point blank dodge. You tried bringing up random examples which literally have their individual explanations, such as Maki being able to move her body back to grab the bullet or Yuji leaning backwards to aimdodge it which has been calced to subsonic.

Yeah, she couldn't use her full Toji-level stuff, aka she couldn't use that precog and wasn't as good of a fighter, but her stats didn't change.

It wasn't precog, it's enhancing her senses which correlates to a heavenly restriction users stats as HR universally amplifies one's body.

Her brain didn't get rewired to give her a 3+ times stat amp to go from subsonic (mach .79), slower than Mach 1 Human Naoya, to supersonic+ or even Mhs+.

No one's saying MHS+, but anyway reread my message where I said Maki could have always possessed the stats and just lacked the ability to fully utilise said stats.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Arkenis is ready to go against the manga when it comes down to his views

A few days ago he was saying we shouldn't trust Gojo on CE manipulation matters because he wanted to cap the ******* verse forever

Now he's saying Gege is inconsistent and Gojo doesn't know about Yuji while Sukuna is the most reliable one about this

He failed to prove Gojo is not trustworthy now he directly trying to jump on Gege

 

[Arkenis]

Why did Shoko learn RCT long before Gojo, despite Gojo having the Six Eyes and better talent than any other sorcerer? Why did it take him 15 years?

When is it said Gojo was trying RCT for that long?

Gojo lmao. Sukuna couldn't believe that Yuji was able to learn RCT.

He wasn't shocked by it at all. After this he said "welp that possessed brat will be my main dish"
And then caught himself disappointed by Higuruma's death. Yuji is/was nothing to Sukuna.

 

[YukaSama4]

He failed to prove Gojo is not trustworthy now he directly trying to jump on Gege

Next he will create his own jjk novel and argue that its more canon than the manga

 

[Rosa]

Ok, but this only impacted her stamina.
ALSO that's the Werry version. TCB says this, which doesn't mean she was nerfed because of blood loss

You posted the same scan I did lmfao. Anyway nothing in your scan mentions stamina, though even if it was stamina then fatigue can still impact your physical performance.

what the f*ck are you talking about?
She was getting outsped. I surely hope you're not trying to say that she was holding back or letting herself get tagged, because that's headcanon. What the hell was she blocking here? She got tagged:

Notice how there's not a single engagement with my argument here?

She says "You and Naobito aren't JUST FAST". Copied and pasted the dialogue, beacuse I reached the Imgur hourly limit here, but what she says is off is the 24fps movement. They act every 1/24th of a second. That's unusual.

Exactly my point? His movements are unusual so he's difficult to fight for reason not limited to his speed.

What the f*ck are you talking about? She literally says she can only see his 24fps movement once she has that HR. that's not being unaffected by a cursed technique, that's gaining better perceptions...

If it was a purely speed thing why would she say it's NOT JUST his speed but also his CT? Keep up, dude.

Literally not understanding how projection sorcery works. What he does 1 second in advance is pre-planned.
Copying and pasting it:
"BY DIVIDING ONE SECOND INTO 24 FRAMES AND USING ONE'S FIELD OF VIEW AS THE ANGLE OF VIEW... THE USER CAN TRACE A PREDETER- MINED SET OF MOVEMENTS."
They're pre-determined, which is what we see with Naoya vs Choso, where Naoya only responded to FRS Choso BECAUSE he planned on Choso's response.

In the scan Maki turns once she finished counting to 24, saying "24 times right?", and we know this is the case since Naoya slapped her and so any movement from her outside the pre-determined move set would freeze her in place.

You have to be a Makisexual

This is makiphobic, don't be so bigoted otherwise I will report you.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Arkenis is ready to go against the manga when it comes down to his views

A few days ago he was saying we shouldn't trust Gojo on CE manipulation matters because he wanted to cap the ******* verse forever

Now he's saying Gege is inconsistent and Gojo doesn't know about Yuji while Sukuna is the most reliable one about this

“Objective” JJK scalers, everyone.

 

[Arkenis]

Arkenis is ready to go against the manga when it comes down to his views

A few days ago he was saying we shouldn't trust Gojo on CE manipulation matters because he wanted to cap the ******* verse forever

Now he's saying Gege is inconsistent and Gojo doesn't know about Yuji while Sukuna is the most reliable one about this

I ain't going against the manga? That Gojo stuff is true and I know for sure people would have no problem with my argument had I applied it to any other character. Ya just ran with Gojo saying something like its fact. Same way people thought Yuji was gonna get Sukuna's ct cuz Gojo said so, where's the ct at?

I'm saying

If you saw the story how I see it you'd have the same issue. The story flip flops on how accurate its previous portrayal of a character is and then throws it out the window when the plot demands it. Like cool its a developing a story but at some point we gotta realize Gege's just throwing stuff at the wall and everyone's going "wow omg sorcery fighting hehe" like there's nothing's wrong.

Completely true.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

When is it said Gojo was trying RCT for that long?

He has known about how RCT works he even says
"I have never been able to do it before"

Why do you think he wasn't to able use Red which is reversel technique despite trying it multiple times?

 

[Arkenis]

He has known about how RCT works he even says
"I have never been able to do it before"

Why do you think he wasn't to able use Red which is reversel technique despite trying it multiple times?

You said 15 years, prove that.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Naoya literally says he'll punch through her whilst he's going at "top speed" and in the panel right before she turned around the narrator confirms Naoya had reached "top speed". No where in the fight did Naoya stop either, you made that up.

Stop ******* using the broken links dummy, I have to figure out what the **** you're talking about when you use it and so do most other people. learn how to link properly.

If you admit she's fighting with "stiff moves" which make her easier to dodge, you agree then that she's faster afterwards?

No? Her combat speed doesn't change, she can just more fluidly move and fight more effectively.

Naoya literally says he'll punch through her whilst he's going at "top speed" and in the panel right before she turned around the narrator confirms Naoya had reached "top speed". No where in the fight did Naoya stop either, you made that up.

I'm talking about human Naoya there IIRC

Headcanon. If we see a character dodge something at point blank range in this manner, then it's a point blank dodge. You tried bringing up random examples which literally have their individual explanations, such as Maki being able to move her body back to grab the bullet or Yuji leaning backwards to aimdodge it which has been calced to subsonic.

They're literally the same shit, AND ESPECIALLY with piercing blood which is canonically faster than Naoya, who can blitz Yuji.

He didn't stop, the air beneath him is still exploding which is the indication of him stacking on projection sorcery.

No? that's now he stays in the air.

It wasn't precog, it's enhancing her senses which correlates to a heavenly restriction users stats as HR universally amplifies one's body.

She doesn't even "enhance" them, she just starts noticing the stuff, and uses it in fights.

No one's saying MHS+, but anyway reread my message where I said Maki could have always possessed the stats and just lacked the ability to fully utilise said stats.

effectively is the word, but she punches at the same speed, reacts at the same speed* and has the same overall combat speed.

You didn't effectively address my consistent explanation of Gege's panelling.

I can even point to shit in the actual Naoya fight.

"Wow, Kamo blocked Supersonic Naoya from point blank range!!! He has to be supersonic too!! even better, lets calc it to like mach 6 or whatever they calced it to!!!"


Same Kamo that didn't undergo any special training to make him faster than the fastest sorcerer, and blitz levels faster. Same Kamo that's not grade 1 level. Same Kamo that considers Hanami insanely durable, but he just got a lot faster for no reason?

He concludes that Naoya (binding vow strengthened) > Hanami > Naoya (weakened)

Even worse, HE SAID HE GOT WEAKER.

"You've gotten stronger, I've only fallen behind"... right...

It's consistent that Supersonic speeds are INSANELY fast to these people, and they need to do special shit to counter them.

As for why Naoya can't tag Sumo-trained Maki:

Naoya doesn't have good redirection ability. He moves in 24fps, and it needs to be pre-planned. He can't change course after one second.

Exactly my point? His movements are unusual so he's difficult to fight for reason not limited to his speed.

It's still ******* mach 1 and insanely faster than someone like Choso, who needs to amp his dynamic visual acuity to see it (granted he can't even do that to mach 1).

If it was a purely speed thing why would she say it's NOT JUST his speed but also his CT? Keep up, dude.

You're downplaying the speed aspect. He's still blitzing everyone.

In the scan Maki turns once she finished counting to 24, saying "24 times right?", and we know this is the case since Naoya slapped her and so any movement from her outside the pre-determined move set would freeze her in place.

She finally figured out how the technique worked, hence she could abide by the 24fps rule too. Nothing crazy aside from that AND also Naoya was still moving at peak speed using projection sorcery

 

[Arkenis]

Stop ******* using the broken links dummy, I have to figure out what the **** you're talking about when you use it and so do most other people. learn how to link properly.

Works for me.

 

[YukaSama4]

Jump kaisen threads

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

RCT is a cursed technique?
This is why never take Gojo fan girls take seriously.

Ah yes, the ability used by skilled sorcerers in JJK to heal themselves: Reverse

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You said 15 years, prove that.

Gojo was conscious and able to think for himself from a very young age, around 5 to 10 years old. I don't see why someone like him, who has full information on his clan and whose members also had red and purple, wouldn't have left notes for RCT, as it is crucial for using Red.

Even if you argue he only started learning RCT when he joined Jujutsu High, it would be at least a few years.

I'm not going to keep entertaining your agenda. If you want to prove that one month's time is enough to learn RCT from Gojo, do so; otherwise, we are done.

 

[Rosa]

No? Her combat speed doesn't change, she can just more fluidly move and fight more effectively.

Naoya didn't just evade her by fighting more fluidly, he evaded her by moving a greater distance that she can cross which isn't something he can do later on despite being faster.

I'm talking about human Naoya there IIRC

So am I...

They're literally the same shit, AND ESPECIALLY with piercing blood which is canonically faster than Naoya, who can blitz Yuji.

Just didn't read my response, ok. Also, dodging something moving in a linear straight line 10+ meters away whilst you know when and where it's coming from is different than going hand to hand with someone moving at those speeds, in addition to my earlier response for it.

No? that's now he stays in the air.

Nothing suggests he's stationary and stopped building up his speed. Also, it's not, we see him levitate without doing that in his iconic debut.

She doesn't even "enhance" them, she just starts noticing the stuff, and uses it in fights.
effectively is the word, but she punches at the same speed, reacts at the same speed* and has the same overall combat speed.

Headcanon, statements and feats suggest otherwise which you've ignored.

"Wow, Kamo blocked Supersonic Naoya from point blank range!!! He has to be supersonic too!! even better, lets calc it to like mach 6 or whatever they calced it to!!!"

Yea, Kamo can consistently react to Naoya (though Naoya wasn't going supersonic speeds in this panel, he can't perceive supersonic Naoya).

Same Kamo that didn't undergo any special training to make him faster than the fastest sorcerer, and blitz levels faster. Same Kamo that's not grade 1 level. Same Kamo that considers Hanami insanely durable, but he just got a lot faster for no reason?

I have no issue with sorcerers getting faster if they have the feats for it, yea, especially given Gojo said due to the overall level of fighters is starting to rise that we'll begin to see explosive growth within the students. Also the Hanami stuff is about durability, not speed.

Even worse, HE SAID HE GOT WEAKER.

"You've gotten stronger, I've only fallen behind"... right...

Very obviously in reference to his position within the big 3 families and his own insecurity surrounding that, as this ties back to his relationship with Kenjaku and the shame he feels over his clan and his inability to escape that shame whilst staring at Maki who stepped up and squashed the corruption within her own clan. read the full scan.

Naoya doesn't have good redirection ability. He moves in 24fps, and it needs to be pre-planned. He can't change course after one second.

Doesn't explain how he can be easily evaded and punched despite not doing so before, since this is true of both womb Cursya and evolved Cursya.

It's still ******* mach 1 and insanely faster than someone like Choso, who needs to amp his dynamic visual acuity to see it (granted he can't even do that to mach 1).

Why is Choso relevant?

You're downplaying the speed aspect. He's still blitzing everyone.

I'm just quoting what Maki herself said

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

If we assume that Gojo started trying to learn RCT when he debuted at the technical college, then it's reasonable to assume that he learned it after less than 2 years of trying to use it

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Naoya didn't just evade her by fighting more fluidly, he evaded her by moving a greater distance that she can cross which isn't something he can do later on despite being faster.

Not really? He just accelerated really quickly. That's another factor you haven't taken in, but you probably don't know what acceleration means

Just didn't read my response, ok. Also, dodging something moving in a linear straight line 10+ meters away whilst you know when and where it's coming from is different than going hand to hand with someone moving at those speeds, in addition to my earlier response for it.

It's the same shit because Naoya can't change directions.

Nothing suggests he's stationary and stopped building up his speed. Also, it's not, we see him levitate without doing that in his iconic debut.

That panel does. He can't talk that fast or think that fast (at mach 3). Also we don't even see him do the flying around accelerating shit.

Yea, Kamo can consistently react to Naoya (though Naoya wasn't going supersonic speeds in this panel, he can't perceive supersonic Naoya).

"Kamo can consistently react to Naoya"
This is it...

Kamo everyone, the guy way weaker than Choso, weaker than before, can consistently react to Naoya's projection sorcery.

I have no issue with sorcerers getting faster if they have the feats for it, yea, especially given Gojo said due to the overall level of fighters is starting to rise that we'll begin to see explosive growth within the students. Also the Hanami stuff is about durability, not speed.

Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
So people get insane power boosts only to speed with no lore, training, or any consistency. Just some random panels, makes sense...

Very obviously in reference to his position within the big 3 families and his own insecurity surrounding that, as this ties back to his relationship with Kenjaku and the shame he feels over his clan and his inability to escape that shame whilst staring at Maki who stepped up and squashed the corruption within her own clan. read the full scan.

No? He literally hasn't done shit. Also it's clearly about strength, and he's still inferior to Choso who's static in power.

He says: "you've gotten stronger, while I've fallen" Makes sense everyone, he got insane power boosts and it's secretly about the clan lore!

Doesn't explain how he can be easily evaded and punched despite not doing so before, since this is true of both womb Cursya and evolved Cursya.

Because she's using her superior cognition to predict where he'll move...

Why is Choso relevant?

Choso > Any version of Kamo

I'm just quoting what Maki herself said

No? You're rewording it in a disingenuous way.

She does not say "oh it's not speed, it's cursed techique," she says "damn you're not just super fast, you also have a CT."

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Objective fact:

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Objective fact:

Kamo has Supersonic PB while Choso's PB is Subsonic

- Big Subsonic JJK Agenda​

 

[Rosa]

Not really? He just accelerated really quickly. That's another factor you haven't taken in, but you probably don't know what acceleration means

he would've had to accelerate to speeds faster than Maki to cross more distance than her in the same time frame, stop trying to dance around this very clear feat.

It's the same shit because Naoya can't change directions.

The this doesn't address my argument at all.

That panel does. He can't talk that fast or think that fast (at mach 3).

headcanon.

"Kamo can consistently react to Naoya"
This is it...

Kamo everyone, the guy way weaker than Choso, weaker than before, can consistently react to Naoya's projection sorcery.

I explicitly said Kamo reacted to him whilst he WASN'T at supersonic speeds...

Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
So people get insane power boosts only to speed with no lore, training, or any consistency. Just some random panels, makes sense...

What's inconsistent about? What's the lore against it? When was it stated he had no training?

No? He literally hasn't done shit. Also it's clearly about strength, and he's still inferior to Choso who's static in power.

Can't prove any of this.

Because she's using her superior cognition to predict where he'll move...

you're just repeating stuff I've already addressed in my original message, this is sad...

No? You're rewording it in a disingenuous way.

She does not say "oh it's not speed, it's cursed techique," she says "damn you're not just super fast, you also have a CT."

If someone says "you're x, not just because of your speed but also your CT" then that means x is the outcome of both factors, not solely one, which is what I said and you strawmanned me into saying it's only one when that's ironically your position. Maki didn't just say "oh you also have a CT ig"

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Kamo has Supersonic PB while Choso's PB is Subsonic

​

what the **** are you talking about

he would've had to accelerate to speeds faster than Maki to cross more distance than her in the same time frame, stop trying to dance around this very clear feat.

No? It just means he can accelerate to his peak speed faster than Maki can, with his peak speed being supersonic while Maki's is mach .79

I explicitly said Kamo reacted to him whilst he WASN'T at supersonic speeds...

That's still Naoya projection jujutsu speed

What's inconsistent about? What's the lore against it? When was it stated he had no training?

It's literally been stated that he went to get that 8 dollar hair cut and has been going around, that's it. He didn't undergo special training, or suddenly become stronger than every grade 1.

Can't prove any of this.

We can. Choso dialed in his CT over 150 F*CKING YEARS. Choso is at his absolute peak.

you're just repeating stuff I've already addressed in my original message, this is sad...

Nah you didn't

If someone says "you're x, not just because of your speed but also your CT" then that means x is the outcome of both factors, not solely one, which is what I said and you strawmanned me into saying it's only one when that's ironically your position. Maki didn't just say "oh you also have a CT ig"

you still use it to downplay the speed component and how he objectively outsped Toji-level Maki

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

I read on reddit that the kanji for "awakening" (覚醒) in the recent chapter were only used once before in the entire manga and that was when gojo had his awakening/enlightenment vs toji, when he gained RCT.

 

[Rosa]

No? It just means he can accelerate to his peak speed faster than Maki can, with his peak speed being supersonic while Maki's is mach .79

So you agree the scene shows Cursya as faster than Maki then

That's still Naoya projection jujutsu speed

Okay, what contradictions exist then? When does Cursya outspeed Kamo without accelerating to the speed of sound or beyond?

It's literally been stated that he went to get that 8 dollar hair cut and has been going around, that's it. He didn't undergo special training, or suddenly become stronger than every grade 1.

No it hasn't, also Kusakabe, human Naoya, and Naobito still slam so not every grade 1.

We can. Choso dialed in his CT over 150 F*CKING YEARS. Choso is at his absolute peak.

That doesn't mean he's at his peak, especially since he was a foetus for those 150 years, so idk why you love making up these assumptions and then using them as your basis. I go off of feats, if a character demonstrates that they can react to another character in a fight, I don't say "oh but this other character trained for a really really really long time and he's not fast", I accept the feats and move on with it. Give me anti-feats to Kamo being subsonic or stop derailing about Kamo.

you still use it to downplay the speed component and how he objectively outsped Toji-level Maki

You're not even engaging with the argument anymore. You've basically dropped 90% of your points of contention and your only meaningful attempts at criticism are you having issue with me saying Kamo scales to a certain level - completely unremoved from the Maki discussion. Nice implicit concession ig.

 

[Rosa]

I read on reddit that the kanji for "awakening" (覚醒) in the recent chapter were only used once before in the entire manga and that was when gojo had his awakening/enlightenment vs toji, when he gained RCT.

put your stocks in Yuji...