• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Maki is equal to Toji while fighting and losing to Naoya Zen’in because he’s too fast, he moves at the speed of sound, and Maki is known for her insane speed. She can use that insane speed to keep up with 15 Finger Sukuna who is a god tier of the verse
Also Maki doesnt scale to 15F Sukuna speed, 15F Sukuna will mop the floor with the heavy hitters
 
Lol. now we think her techniques outside of her own domain is above the ones done in domain huh.
This “above = higher Ap” shit is a really meathead way of thinking about this shit

? No it happened after the event of vol 0, where Yuta went to Africa with Miguel. Watch the end of vol 0 movie. The manga continues from there.
Gojo in volume 0 = current Gojo
 
Also Maki doesnt scale to 15F Sukuna speed, 15F Sukuna will mop the floor with the heavy hitters
15 Finger Sukuna mops the flor with the heavy hitters ≠ Maki can’t scale to him in speed.

15 Finger Sukuna didn’t have his movement nerfed and having your cursed energy output lowered while attacking doesn’t make your combat speed much lower

how many people think Maki reaching enlightenment purely just gives precog and no speed increase in reaction speed 😂 I can count two here already. Ik more are lurking

They literally state in the databook she became equal to Toji after defeating the Zen’in clan. She only hadn’t gained the Toji weird precog shit
 
The precog agenda needs to die. She doesn't gain precog, her sensory range extends beyond what is once was which is a powerup to her base sensory skills. It's by definition an extension of her body/mind.

This is like saying spiders have pre-cog because their natural sensory abilities allow them to detect minute sound/ground vibrations or that my cat is psychic because its whiskers allow it a crazy fast reaction time.
 
15 Finger Sukuna mops the flor with the heavy hitters ≠ Maki can’t scale to him in speed.

15 Finger Sukuna didn’t have his movement nerfed and having your cursed energy output lowered while attacking doesn’t make your combat speed much lower
So why is Maki getting blitzed by currently heavily nerfed Sukuna who's far worse than Sukuna 15F 🤣
Do you even read JJk or are you just here to downplay JJk?

So why do you think Yuta's movement got faster with more ce output. And what? how do you think characters keep up with their own movement's like punching and kicking then and even those relative to them? What kind of argument is this. Like seriously, are you just trolling? It's like saying the sun doesn't exist because you don't see it 😭
They literally state in the databook she became equal to Toji after defeating the Zen’in clan. She only hadn’t gained the Toji weird precog shit
Sure, bring that guidebook statement in alongside the raws.
"precog shit" Ah yes surely the precog gives her buffed innate speed 👍
 
15 Finger Sukuna mops the flor with the heavy hitters ≠ Maki can’t scale to him in speed.

15 Finger Sukuna didn’t have his movement nerfed and having your cursed energy output lowered while attacking doesn’t make your combat speed much lower
This topic was discussed here long ago by me and others and it was refuted many times already, Im not really interested anymore in that
if you care about it go add it to the profiles

anyways lemme quote my question once again
but for now you conceded that current Sukuna can operate on a faster speed than Naoya
Because that's the initial topic, scaling current Sukuna to Naoya’s speed
 
So why do you think Yuta's movement got faster with more ce output. And what? how do you think characters keep up with their own movement's like punching and kicking then and even those relative to them? What kind of argument is this. Like seriously, are you just trolling? It's like saying the sun doesn't exist because you don't see it 😭
We know in context he was actually hitting a black flash when that happened, so it wouldn’t be that useful

Sure, bring that guidebook statement in alongside the raws.
"precog shit" Ah yes surely the precog gives her buffed innate speed 👍
I’ll look for it RQ, but it was in Arkenis’ profile sandbox for Naoya

It explicitly states she became as strong as Toji


The precog agenda needs to die. She doesn't gain precog, her sensory range extends beyond what is once was which is a powerup to her base sensory skills. It's by definition an extension of her body/mind.

This is like saying spiders have pre-cog because their natural sensory abilities allow them to detect minute sound/ground vibrations or that my cat is psychic because its whiskers allow it a crazy fast reaction time.
I just say “weird precog” because they understand what the hell I mean by that.
 
Maki is equal to Toji while fighting
During the Cursya fight Maki is stated to be incapable of fully utilising her body; Miyo states that her muscles are slacking where Maki's entire lesson from Miyo was to grow stronger, and after his lesson it's stated that everything about her is now different and that she's grown to new heights as a fighter equal to Toji for the first time in 12 years. We know all of this can't be "just a skill thing" given prior to this point curse womb Naoya was able to evade her attack as she was already throwing a punch by a massive distance difference but then a fully evolved curse Naoya - going at his max speed - is casually evaded by Maki at point blank range and is consistently tagged by her punches. This isn't to say that the previous statement of her bodily strength being equal to Toji is wrong, but it is to say that without a particular skill set that Maki could not bring out her full physical capabilities until now. She had the physicality to do these things, but her mind wasn't allowing her too.
and losing to Naoya Zen’in because he’s too fast
She wasn't losing. Firstly, Maki was already suffering from blood loss, fatigue, and injury - which the narrator states is putting her at a disadvantage against Naoya. Secondly, we see throughout the fight Maki was counting the time frames of Naoya's movement whilst blocking his hits, and Maki explains later that Naoya's speed wasn't the issue but it was his cursed technique which made him so notable - something her body can now see through as heavenly restriction users aren't as affected by cursed techniques (there's a lot of evidence for this, but I'm fairly certain it's already accepted so I won't both searching for all the scans). Either way, Maki does outright move faster than Naoya when she does a 180 turn and punches him before he can even react.
She can use that insane speed to keep up with 15 Finger Sukuna who is a god tier of the verse
A 15F Sukuna at below 10% output (Sukuna's 2nd point here about the flesh being a reference to his ability to possess vessels, as Sukuna is commenting that even though Megumi as a vessel suppresses his output he's still relatively unhindered compared to how he was with Yuji as a vessel), which is consistent with explicit statements of Toji being comparable to 3F Sukuna.
 
So Yuji is just that guy.... but Higuruma, the guy talented as Gojo isn't? That's cope. And yeah RCT is hard to come by, for your average sorcerer, Higuruma is a sorcerer talented as Gojo. Yuji didn't need a life or death situation to do RCT, he trained in a month to do it. Why can't Higuruma?

Gojo understood the theory behind RCT but he couldn't figure out how to actually go through with it. Until, Toji stabbed him. So I'm not sure whats your problem with that
 
During the Cursya fight Maki is stated to be incapable of fully utilising her body; Miyo states that her muscles are slacking where Maki's entire lesson from Miyo was to grow stronger, and after his lesson it's stated that everything about her is now different and that she's grown to new heights as a fighter equal to Toji for the first time in 12 years. We know all of this can't be "just a skill thing" given prior to this point curse womb Naoya was able to evade her attack as she was already throwing a punch by a massive distance difference but then a fully evolved curse Naoya - going at his max speed - is casually evaded by Maki at point blank range and is consistently tagged by her punches. This isn't to say that the previous statement of her bodily strength being equal to Toji is wrong, but it is to say that without a particular skill set that Maki could not bring out her full physical capabilities until now. She had the physicality to do these things, but her mind wasn't allowing her too.

She wasn't losing. Firstly, Maki was already suffering from blood loss, fatigue, and injury - which the narrator states is putting her at a disadvantage against Naoya. Secondly, we see throughout the fight Maki was counting the time frames of Naoya's movement whilst blocking his hits, and Maki explains later that Naoya's speed wasn't the issue but it was his cursed technique which made him so notable - something her body can now see through as heavenly restriction users aren't as affected by cursed techniques (there's a lot of evidence for this, but I'm fairly certain it's already accepted so I won't both searching for all the scans). Either way, Maki does outright move faster than Naoya when she does a 180 turn and punches him before he can even react.

A 15F Sukuna at below 10% output (Sukuna's 2nd point here about the flesh being a reference to his ability to possess vessels, as Sukuna is commenting that even though Megumi as a vessel suppresses his output he's still relatively unhindered compared to how he was with Yuji as a vessel), which is consistent with explicit statements of Toji being comparable to 3F Sukuna.
I will address this at detail when I get to my computer
 
Just because someone is as talented as someone doesn't mean they will progress the same way, Gojo unlocked RCT before his domain, Megumi unlocked his domain before RCT, still, Gojo says Megumi will become as good as him

And Yuta didn't have a domain when he was at 15 yo like Megumi, but he could do RCT since the beginning, Higuruma unlocked his domain in a few weeks after becoming a sorcerer while Gojo didn't, still they are equally talented
 
Stop saying "Cursya"

During the Cursya fight Maki is stated to be incapable of fully utilising her body; Miyo states that her muscles are slacking where Maki's entire lesson from Miyo was to grow stronger, and after his lesson it's stated that everything about her is now different and that she's grown to new heights as a fighter equal to Toji for the first time in 12 years. We know all of this can't be "just a skill thing" given prior to this point curse womb Naoya was able to evade her attack as she was already throwing a punch by a massive distance difference but then a fully evolved curse Naoya - going at his max speed - is casually evaded by Maki at point blank range and is consistently tagged by her punches. This isn't to say that the previous statement of her bodily strength being equal to Toji is wrong, but it is to say that without a particular skill set that Maki could not bring out her full physical capabilities until now. She had the physicality to do these things, but her mind wasn't allowing her too.
None of these links work buddy

Stop linking websites' pictures and link them to imgur or something like a normal person
 
Gojo understood the theory behind RCT but he couldn't figure out how to actually go through with it. Until, Toji stabbed him. So I'm not sure whats your problem with that
This doesn't address my point at all. I don't even know how ya began focusing on how Gojo did RCT when it has zero to do with what I'm talking about.

TALENT

That's the main focus here. Higuruma is as talented as Gojo as a sorcerer. Him not learning RCT within that month simply is inconsistent with his narrative for being a talented sorcerer when Yuji could.
6Hr6x3F.png
F34A15d.png


Just because someone is as talented as someone doesn't mean they will progress the same way, Gojo unlocked RCT before his domain, Megumi unlocked his domain before RCT, still, Gojo says Megumi will become as good as him

And Yuta didn't have a domain when he was at 15 yo like Megumi, but he could do RCT since the beginning, Higuruma unlocked his domain in a few weeks after becoming a sorcerer while Gojo didn't, still they are equally talented
No one said they will or should progress the same way, that's been acknowledged by the fact they didn't, so why bring that up? Ya keep bringing up points that don't address what I'm saying.
 
Just because someone is as talented as someone doesn't mean they will progress the same way, Gojo unlocked RCT before his domain, Megumi unlocked his domain before RCT, still, Gojo says Megumi will become as good as him

And Yuta didn't have a domain when he was at 15 yo like Megumi, but he could do RCT since the beginning, Higuruma unlocked his domain in a few weeks after becoming a sorcerer while Gojo didn't, still they are equally talented
Higuruma is granted a free domain tho. It's like, stated.
As for rct. that shi is just straight up weird. Gege never really explained why it is difficult even though it says "extremely delicate control of ce is required" (gojo's precision of ce control is already high af tf you mean gege)
 
No one said they will or should progress the same way, that's been acknowledged by the fact they didn't, so why bring that up? Ya keep bringing up points that don't address what I'm saying
Correct me if Im wrong,
Arent you saying Higu not learning RCT is stupid because Yuji could and Higu should be the one with the talent to rival Gojo?
Thats basically saying they should progress the same way..
 
This doesn't address my point at all. I don't even know how ya began focusing on how Gojo did RCT when it has zero to do with what I'm talking about.

TALENT

That's the main focus here. Higuruma is as talented as Gojo as a sorcerer. Him not learning RCT within that month simply is inconsistent with his narrative for being a talented sorcerer when Yuji could.
6Hr6x3F.png
F34A15d.png
.

How is that inconsistent. Both Higuruma and Gojo had to get pressured into doing rct
 
Correct me if Im wrong,
Arent you saying Higu not learning RCT is stupid because Yuji could and Higu should be the one with the talent to rival Gojo?
Thats basically saying they should progress the same way..
It's not. Hig's progression as a sorcerer is already above Yuji's, I'm arguing that him not learning RCT yet Yuji did is inconsistent for Higuruma's narrative. If Gege was being consistent with his portrayal for Hig then it would only be natural Hig should have learned RCT as well.

How is that inconsistent. Both Higuruma and Gojo had to get pressured into doing rct
Please read what I am saying.
inconsistent with his narrative for being a talented sorcerer when Yuji could.

Isn’t microsecond reactions speed mhs+ here regardless here?
Yeah for reactions. BF requires no reactions though.
 
It's not. Hig's progression as a sorcerer is already above Yuji's, I'm arguing that him not learning RCT yet Yuji did is inconsistent for Higuruma's narrative. If Gege was being consistent with his portrayal for Hig then it would only be natural Hig should have learned RCT as well.
I dont see the inconsistency here, hes not Sukuna who can do anything after seeing it for once, he's as talented as Gojo, the same Gojo who learnt RCT when he was near death, which is the same thing that happened with Higu
 
So Yuji is just that guy.... but Higuruma, the guy talented as Gojo isn't? That's cope. And yeah RCT is hard to come by, for your average sorcerer, Higuruma is a sorcerer talented as Gojo. Yuji didn't need a life or death situation to do RCT, he trained in a month to do it. Why can't Higuruma? I don't know why you say evolving your ct or lethal domains is rare, we aren't talking about your average sorcerer, we're talking about a hyped up genius sorcerer who learned barrier techs in 12 days and a domain and got to first grade standard with no external training.
Read what I said AGAIN before replying. You didn't addressed anything about what I said.
Compare Gojo and Shoko both you will get your answer
ISOH is good against any ct, what are you talking about? It's just random SSK is what Mai decided on instead of the weapon to nullifies ct.
SSK has dura neg + can directly attack the soul, which even Gojo can't regenerate with RCT. ISOH nullifies CT at best; it can't do anything against CE reinforcements as far as the story goes. Damage from ISOH can be healed, while that's not the case with SSK. Both have different uses and different plus and negative points. Tell me how ISOH could have nerfed Sukuna better than SSK?
 
I don't think the talent thing means much given the radically different circumstances. Gojo was still a child with an undeveloped brain with the only person there who knew RCT being incapable of explaining it to him, alongside him living a relatively easy and undisturbed life where he was never pushed to break his limit, and then when met with such extreme cases he awoke. Higuruma was a middle aged man who trained for a month with numerous proficient RCT users and was pushed into countless life or death scenarios, eventually awakening RCT in the midst of combat. Such radically different backgrounds and conditions, yet equal talent and equal results.
 
I dont see the inconsistency here, hes not Sukuna who can do anything after seeing it for once, he's as talented as Gojo, the same Gojo who learnt RCT when he was near death, which is the same thing that happened with Gojo
I'll break it down.

Higuruma learned barrier techs and reinforcement and became a first grade in 12 days
A month later without any known training he does Domain Amp and RCT.

The story always has his accomplishments accompanied with "in such short time too omg".

So why did he not learn RCT within the month yet Yuji could? A character who is constantly reinforced by Sukuna that he's unimpressive?


Sorcerers are outright stated to grow more during battle when there are consequences to suffer.

Yuta learned RCT at the thought of his friends dying, Gojo learned RCT before he died, Higuruma learned RCT at death’s door. Similar themes.
So just throw out the whole theme that Higuruma's a talented sorcerer and could learn so much in such a short time and instead "lol consequences they grow gg" just admit Gege wasn't thinking or doesn't care about consistency and just wants to create cool scenes cuz that's what its looking like. And this trope about consequences is actually

All talented sorcerers but only when the plot demands it they grow?


He is just finding excuses don't mind 😔
That's literally what you guys have been doing for this whole discussion.
Me: "Why can't Higuruma have learned RCT within a month?"
Yall: "Well because sorcerers grow when consequences to suffer" "Well Gojo only learned at death" "Well its Yuji's just that guy"
Yuji: I did it in a month...


I don't think the talent thing means much given the radically different circumstances. Gojo was still a child with an undeveloped brain with the only person there who knew RCT being incapable of explaining it to him, alongside him living a relatively easy and undisturbed life where he was never pushed to break his limit, and then when met with such extreme cases he awoke. Higuruma was a middle aged man who trained for a month with numerous proficient RCT users and was pushed into countless life or death scenarios, eventually awakening RCT in the midst of combat. Such radically different backgrounds and conditions, yet equal talent and equal results.
How does Yuji getting RCT in a month fit into this? Why didn't Higuruma also train/learn RCT in that month?
 
Back
Top