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Also Maki doesnt scale to 15F Sukuna speed, 15F Sukuna will mop the floor with the heavy hitters
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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1
- Thread starter PowerToScale
- Start date
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,015
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This “above = higher Ap” shit is a really meathead way of thinking about this shit
Gojo in volume 0 = current Gojo
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i never said ap. im simply just explaining a basic concept that peak jujutsu > non peak jujutsu. reiterated in series.
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Ok, prove this.
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,015
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15 Finger Sukuna mops the flor with the heavy hitters ≠ Maki can’t scale to him in speed.
15 Finger Sukuna didn’t have his movement nerfed and having your cursed energy output lowered while attacking doesn’t make your combat speed much lower
how many people think Maki reaching enlightenment purely just gives precog and no speed increase in reaction speedI can count two here already. Ik more are lurking
They literally state in the databook she became equal to Toji after defeating the Zen’in clan. She only hadn’t gained the Toji weird precog shit
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The precog agenda needs to die. She doesn't gain precog, her sensory range extends beyond what is once was which is a powerup to her base sensory skills. It's by definition an extension of her body/mind.
This is like saying spiders have pre-cog because their natural sensory abilities allow them to detect minute sound/ground vibrations or that my cat is psychic because its whiskers allow it a crazy fast reaction time.
This is like saying spiders have pre-cog because their natural sensory abilities allow them to detect minute sound/ground vibrations or that my cat is psychic because its whiskers allow it a crazy fast reaction time.
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So why is Maki getting blitzed by currently heavily nerfed Sukuna who's far worse than Sukuna 15F
Do you even read JJk or are you just here to downplay JJk?
So why do you think Yuta's movement got faster with more ce output. And what? how do you think characters keep up with their own movement's like punching and kicking then and even those relative to them? What kind of argument is this. Like seriously, are you just trolling? It's like saying the sun doesn't exist because you don't see it
Sure, bring that guidebook statement in alongside the raws.
"precog shit" Ah yes surely the precog gives her buffed innate speed
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This topic was discussed here long ago by me and others and it was refuted many times already, Im not really interested anymore in that
if you care about it go add it to the profiles
anyways lemme quote my question once again
Because that's the initial topic, scaling current Sukuna to Naoya’s speed
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,015
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We know in context he was actually hitting a black flash when that happened, so it wouldn’t be that usefulSo why do you think Yuta's movement got faster with more ce output. And what? how do you think characters keep up with their own movement's like punching and kicking then and even those relative to them? What kind of argument is this. Like seriously, are you just trolling? It's like saying the sun doesn't exist because you don't see it
I’ll look for it RQ, but it was in Arkenis’ profile sandbox for NaoyaSure, bring that guidebook statement in alongside the raws.
"precog shit" Ah yes surely the precog gives her buffed innate speed
It explicitly states she became as strong as Toji
I just say “weird precog” because they understand what the hell I mean by that.
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During the Cursya fight Maki is stated to be incapable of fully utilising her body; Miyo states that her muscles are slacking where Maki's entire lesson from Miyo was to grow stronger, and after his lesson it's stated that everything about her is now different and that she's grown to new heights as a fighter equal to Toji for the first time in 12 years. We know all of this can't be "just a skill thing" given prior to this point curse womb Naoya was able to evade her attack as she was already throwing a punch by a massive distance difference but then a fully evolved curse Naoya - going at his max speed - is casually evaded by Maki at point blank range and is consistently tagged by her punches. This isn't to say that the previous statement of her bodily strength being equal to Toji is wrong, but it is to say that without a particular skill set that Maki could not bring out her full physical capabilities until now. She had the physicality to do these things, but her mind wasn't allowing her too.
She wasn't losing. Firstly, Maki was already suffering from blood loss, fatigue, and injury - which the narrator states is putting her at a disadvantage against Naoya. Secondly, we see throughout the fight Maki was counting the time frames of Naoya's movement whilst blocking his hits, and Maki explains later that Naoya's speed wasn't the issue but it was his cursed technique which made him so notable - something her body can now see through as heavenly restriction users aren't as affected by cursed techniques (there's a lot of evidence for this, but I'm fairly certain it's already accepted so I won't both searching for all the scans). Either way, Maki does outright move faster than Naoya when she does a 180 turn and punches him before he can even react.
A 15F Sukuna at below 10% output (Sukuna's 2nd point here about the flesh being a reference to his ability to possess vessels, as Sukuna is commenting that even though Megumi as a vessel suppresses his output he's still relatively unhindered compared to how he was with Yuji as a vessel), which is consistent with explicit statements of Toji being comparable to 3F Sukuna.
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Gojo understood the theory behind RCT but he couldn't figure out how to actually go through with it. Until, Toji stabbed him. So I'm not sure whats your problem with that
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,015
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I will address this at detail when I get to my computer
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Just because someone is as talented as someone doesn't mean they will progress the same way, Gojo unlocked RCT before his domain, Megumi unlocked his domain before RCT, still, Gojo says Megumi will become as good as him
And Yuta didn't have a domain when he was at 15 yo like Megumi, but he could do RCT since the beginning, Higuruma unlocked his domain in a few weeks after becoming a sorcerer while Gojo didn't, still they are equally talented
And Yuta didn't have a domain when he was at 15 yo like Megumi, but he could do RCT since the beginning, Higuruma unlocked his domain in a few weeks after becoming a sorcerer while Gojo didn't, still they are equally talented
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Higurma's (and Hakari) cursed technique is his domain, he didnt unlock shit
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,015
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Stop saying "Cursya"
None of these links work buddy
Stop linking websites' pictures and link them to imgur or something like a normal person
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When what?
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mb, ignore this I put other examples
Arkenis
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This doesn't address my point at all. I don't even know how ya began focusing on how Gojo did RCT when it has zero to do with what I'm talking about.
TALENT
That's the main focus here. Higuruma is as talented as Gojo as a sorcerer. Him not learning RCT within that month simply is inconsistent with his narrative for being a talented sorcerer when Yuji could.
No one said they will or should progress the same way, that's been acknowledged by the fact they didn't, so why bring that up? Ya keep bringing up points that don't address what I'm saying.
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No
they work for me, and uploading each image to imgur and then using that is more effort than what your takes are worth tbh
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Higuruma is granted a free domain tho. It's like, stated.
As for rct. that shi is just straight up weird. Gege never really explained why it is difficult even though it says "extremely delicate control of ce is required" (gojo's precision of ce control is already high af tf you mean gege)
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"Well, Yuji separated his normal Black Flashes from a Black Flash with Maximum output"
when did this happen?
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Correct me if Im wrong,
Arent you saying Higu not learning RCT is stupid because Yuji could and Higu should be the one with the talent to rival Gojo?
Thats basically saying they should progress the same way..
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Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,015
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Gojo didn't have a DE, but to be fair he was grade 1 level as a teenager, just like Higuruma is
They don't work for anyone else
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This doesn't address my point at all. I don't even know how ya began focusing on how Gojo did RCT when it has zero to do with what I'm talking about.
TALENT
That's the main focus here. Higuruma is as talented as Gojo as a sorcerer. Him not learning RCT within that month simply is inconsistent with his narrative for being a talented sorcerer when Yuji could.
.
How is that inconsistent. Both Higuruma and Gojo had to get pressured into doing rct
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Isn’t microsecond reactions speed mhs+ here regardless here?
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,498
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It's not. Hig's progression as a sorcerer is already above Yuji's, I'm arguing that him not learning RCT yet Yuji did is inconsistent for Higuruma's narrative. If Gege was being consistent with his portrayal for Hig then it would only be natural Hig should have learned RCT as well.
Please read what I am saying.
Yeah for reactions. BF requires no reactions though.
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oh, sorry.
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I dont see the inconsistency here, hes not Sukuna who can do anything after seeing it for once, he's as talented as Gojo, the same Gojo who learnt RCT when he was near death, which is the same thing that happened with Higu
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Sorcerers are outright stated to grow more during battle when there are consequences to suffer.
Yuta learned RCT at the thought of his friends dying, Gojo learned RCT before he died, Higuruma learned RCT at death’s door. Similar themes.
Yuta learned RCT at the thought of his friends dying, Gojo learned RCT before he died, Higuruma learned RCT at death’s door. Similar themes.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,173
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Read what I said AGAIN before replying. You didn't addressed anything about what I said.
Compare Gojo and Shoko both you will get your answer
SSK has dura neg + can directly attack the soul, which even Gojo can't regenerate with RCT. ISOH nullifies CT at best; it can't do anything against CE reinforcements as far as the story goes. Damage from ISOH can be healed, while that's not the case with SSK. Both have different uses and different plus and negative points. Tell me how ISOH could have nerfed Sukuna better than SSK?
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I'm able to open them no problem
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No I meant that Yuji treated a black flash with Maximum output as something not quite the same as a normal Black Flash when he fought Mahito.
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EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,173
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He is just finding excuses don't mind
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I don't think the talent thing means much given the radically different circumstances. Gojo was still a child with an undeveloped brain with the only person there who knew RCT being incapable of explaining it to him, alongside him living a relatively easy and undisturbed life where he was never pushed to break his limit, and then when met with such extreme cases he awoke. Higuruma was a middle aged man who trained for a month with numerous proficient RCT users and was pushed into countless life or death scenarios, eventually awakening RCT in the midst of combat. Such radically different backgrounds and conditions, yet equal talent and equal results.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,498
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I'll break it down.
Higuruma learned barrier techs and reinforcement and became a first grade in 12 days
A month later without any known training he does Domain Amp and RCT.
The story always has his accomplishments accompanied with "in such short time too omg".
So why did he not learn RCT within the month yet Yuji could? A character who is constantly reinforced by Sukuna that he's unimpressive?
So just throw out the whole theme that Higuruma's a talented sorcerer and could learn so much in such a short time and instead "lol consequences they grow gg" just admit Gege wasn't thinking or doesn't care about consistency and just wants to create cool scenes cuz that's what its looking like. And this trope about consequences is actually
All talented sorcerers but only when the plot demands it they grow?
That's literally what you guys have been doing for this whole discussion.He is just finding excuses don't mind
Me: "Why can't Higuruma have learned RCT within a month?"
Yall: "Well because sorcerers grow when consequences to suffer" "Well Gojo only learned at death" "Well its Yuji's just that guy"
Yuji: I did it in a month...
How does Yuji getting RCT in a month fit into this? Why didn't Higuruma also train/learn RCT in that month?
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Yuji is stated to have the potential to one day not only surpass Gojo but make the categorisation of "special grade" itself meaningless, are we REALLY shocked that Yuji is growing at the fastest rate in the series?
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,015
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Now that I saw how to read this shit (checking what chapter and page it is from just the link), lets see
I edited the links for these responses so they work
Holy ****, you can't be stretching the meaning this much
That scan doesn't prove that though? Also what the f*ck? Did we read the same sh*t? It's clearly about becoming a looser fighter. It's like an art teacher telling you to have a looser shoulder.
Holy ****, you can't be stretching this THIS MUCH. It's about her attitude and how loose and free she feels afterwards. You can look like an entirely different person without it "being stated that everything about her is now different"
No? This time I can't figure out what scan it is, but this never happened in a way that suggests she got a stat amp
She had Toji stats, but Toji stats isn't what makes someone completely equal to Toji.
Hence they say "has been FULLY REALIZED". She had only PARTIALLY REALIZED herself as a fighter equal to Toji before this, and then became a fighter fully equal to Toji.
Yeah, makes sense, he dodged obvious stiff moves, with speed equal to Toji.
Ok HERE we get to the real stuff.
First, this doesn't show he was going at max speed when she tagged him. It takes him a LONG time to build up to mach 3, and he stopped moving prior to charging at Maki in those other pictures, where she dodged.
When she dodged Naoya in the air, he stopped and said "what the f**ck" before she even hit the ground
To charge up to mach 3, he needs to charge up way more, move to a way further distance, and go in circles for a bit, while here he went immediately to hitting Maki.
Also this "point-blank" range shit is just out of context stuff, because we know Gege always draws like this when he's depicting high-speed movement and people narrowly dodging stuff they're way way way way way slower than.
Using this logic, you'd think Yuji is equal to piercing blood, or **** it, even way faster:
You'd think "Damn Yuji is way faster than piercing blood! He dodged it from point-blank range!"
when from the 10+ meters away that it was fired, he barely dodged it and still got tagged.
You'd say, "Yuji consistently dodges piercing blood!" using this logic, when he's obviously way slower, and gets blitzed by a non-full-speed Naoya.
You'd say "damn, Maki caught the bullet from literally 5cm away"
When she'd consistently fought Mai evenly beforehand, is much slower than the speed of sound, and on top of that she caught it with the arm extended. She didn't move her hand close to her face, she caught it with her arm completely extended. There was way more room between her and the bullet in actuality
Hence, we can't use this logic to claim "oh she's consistently Naoya-level in speed, when she's clearly not, and she has to learn how to predict Naoya's weird 24fps supersonic movement to beat him.
Yeah, she couldn't use her full Toji-level stuff, aka she couldn't use that precog and wasn't as good of a fighter, but her stats didn't change. Her brain didn't get rewired to give her a 3+ times stat amp to go from subsonic (mach .79), slower than Mach 1 Human Naoya, to supersonic+ or even Mhs+. I'm not done yet tho, this is just part 1
