Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[EldemadeDityjon]

You said 15 years, prove that.

Gojo was conscious and able to think for himself from a very young age, around 5 to 10 years old. I don't see why someone like him, who has full information on his clan and whose members also had red and purple, wouldn't have left notes for RCT, as it is crucial for using Red.

Even if you argue he only started learning RCT when he joined Jujutsu High, it would be at least a few years.

I'm not going to keep entertaining your agenda. If you want to prove that one month's time is enough to learn RCT from Gojo, do so; otherwise, we are done.

 

[Rosa]

No? Her combat speed doesn't change, she can just more fluidly move and fight more effectively.

Naoya didn't just evade her by fighting more fluidly, he evaded her by moving a greater distance that she can cross which isn't something he can do later on despite being faster.

I'm talking about human Naoya there IIRC

So am I...

They're literally the same shit, AND ESPECIALLY with piercing blood which is canonically faster than Naoya, who can blitz Yuji.

Just didn't read my response, ok. Also, dodging something moving in a linear straight line 10+ meters away whilst you know when and where it's coming from is different than going hand to hand with someone moving at those speeds, in addition to my earlier response for it.

No? that's now he stays in the air.

Nothing suggests he's stationary and stopped building up his speed. Also, it's not, we see him levitate without doing that in his iconic debut.

She doesn't even "enhance" them, she just starts noticing the stuff, and uses it in fights.
effectively is the word, but she punches at the same speed, reacts at the same speed* and has the same overall combat speed.

Headcanon, statements and feats suggest otherwise which you've ignored.

"Wow, Kamo blocked Supersonic Naoya from point blank range!!! He has to be supersonic too!! even better, lets calc it to like mach 6 or whatever they calced it to!!!"

Yea, Kamo can consistently react to Naoya (though Naoya wasn't going supersonic speeds in this panel, he can't perceive supersonic Naoya).

Same Kamo that didn't undergo any special training to make him faster than the fastest sorcerer, and blitz levels faster. Same Kamo that's not grade 1 level. Same Kamo that considers Hanami insanely durable, but he just got a lot faster for no reason?

I have no issue with sorcerers getting faster if they have the feats for it, yea, especially given Gojo said due to the overall level of fighters is starting to rise that we'll begin to see explosive growth within the students. Also the Hanami stuff is about durability, not speed.

Even worse, HE SAID HE GOT WEAKER.

"You've gotten stronger, I've only fallen behind"... right...

Very obviously in reference to his position within the big 3 families and his own insecurity surrounding that, as this ties back to his relationship with Kenjaku and the shame he feels over his clan and his inability to escape that shame whilst staring at Maki who stepped up and squashed the corruption within her own clan. read the full scan.

Naoya doesn't have good redirection ability. He moves in 24fps, and it needs to be pre-planned. He can't change course after one second.

Doesn't explain how he can be easily evaded and punched despite not doing so before, since this is true of both womb Cursya and evolved Cursya.

It's still ******* mach 1 and insanely faster than someone like Choso, who needs to amp his dynamic visual acuity to see it (granted he can't even do that to mach 1).

Why is Choso relevant?

You're downplaying the speed aspect. He's still blitzing everyone.

I'm just quoting what Maki herself said

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

If we assume that Gojo started trying to learn RCT when he debuted at the technical college, then it's reasonable to assume that he learned it after less than 2 years of trying to use it

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Naoya didn't just evade her by fighting more fluidly, he evaded her by moving a greater distance that she can cross which isn't something he can do later on despite being faster.

Not really? He just accelerated really quickly. That's another factor you haven't taken in, but you probably don't know what acceleration means

Just didn't read my response, ok. Also, dodging something moving in a linear straight line 10+ meters away whilst you know when and where it's coming from is different than going hand to hand with someone moving at those speeds, in addition to my earlier response for it.

It's the same shit because Naoya can't change directions.

Nothing suggests he's stationary and stopped building up his speed. Also, it's not, we see him levitate without doing that in his iconic debut.

That panel does. He can't talk that fast or think that fast (at mach 3). Also we don't even see him do the flying around accelerating shit.

Yea, Kamo can consistently react to Naoya (though Naoya wasn't going supersonic speeds in this panel, he can't perceive supersonic Naoya).

"Kamo can consistently react to Naoya"
This is it...

Kamo everyone, the guy way weaker than Choso, weaker than before, can consistently react to Naoya's projection sorcery.

I have no issue with sorcerers getting faster if they have the feats for it, yea, especially given Gojo said due to the overall level of fighters is starting to rise that we'll begin to see explosive growth within the students. Also the Hanami stuff is about durability, not speed.

Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
So people get insane power boosts only to speed with no lore, training, or any consistency. Just some random panels, makes sense...

Very obviously in reference to his position within the big 3 families and his own insecurity surrounding that, as this ties back to his relationship with Kenjaku and the shame he feels over his clan and his inability to escape that shame whilst staring at Maki who stepped up and squashed the corruption within her own clan. read the full scan.

No? He literally hasn't done shit. Also it's clearly about strength, and he's still inferior to Choso who's static in power.

He says: "you've gotten stronger, while I've fallen" Makes sense everyone, he got insane power boosts and it's secretly about the clan lore!

Doesn't explain how he can be easily evaded and punched despite not doing so before, since this is true of both womb Cursya and evolved Cursya.

Because she's using her superior cognition to predict where he'll move...

Why is Choso relevant?

Choso > Any version of Kamo

I'm just quoting what Maki herself said

No? You're rewording it in a disingenuous way.

She does not say "oh it's not speed, it's cursed techique," she says "damn you're not just super fast, you also have a CT."

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Objective fact:

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Objective fact:

Kamo has Supersonic PB while Choso's PB is Subsonic

- Big Subsonic JJK Agenda​

 

[Rosa]

Not really? He just accelerated really quickly. That's another factor you haven't taken in, but you probably don't know what acceleration means

he would've had to accelerate to speeds faster than Maki to cross more distance than her in the same time frame, stop trying to dance around this very clear feat.

It's the same shit because Naoya can't change directions.

The this doesn't address my argument at all.

That panel does. He can't talk that fast or think that fast (at mach 3).

headcanon.

"Kamo can consistently react to Naoya"
This is it...

Kamo everyone, the guy way weaker than Choso, weaker than before, can consistently react to Naoya's projection sorcery.

I explicitly said Kamo reacted to him whilst he WASN'T at supersonic speeds...

Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
So people get insane power boosts only to speed with no lore, training, or any consistency. Just some random panels, makes sense...

What's inconsistent about? What's the lore against it? When was it stated he had no training?

No? He literally hasn't done shit. Also it's clearly about strength, and he's still inferior to Choso who's static in power.

Can't prove any of this.

Because she's using her superior cognition to predict where he'll move...

you're just repeating stuff I've already addressed in my original message, this is sad...

No? You're rewording it in a disingenuous way.

She does not say "oh it's not speed, it's cursed techique," she says "damn you're not just super fast, you also have a CT."

If someone says "you're x, not just because of your speed but also your CT" then that means x is the outcome of both factors, not solely one, which is what I said and you strawmanned me into saying it's only one when that's ironically your position. Maki didn't just say "oh you also have a CT ig"

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Kamo has Supersonic PB while Choso's PB is Subsonic

​

what the **** are you talking about

he would've had to accelerate to speeds faster than Maki to cross more distance than her in the same time frame, stop trying to dance around this very clear feat.

No? It just means he can accelerate to his peak speed faster than Maki can, with his peak speed being supersonic while Maki's is mach .79

I explicitly said Kamo reacted to him whilst he WASN'T at supersonic speeds...

That's still Naoya projection jujutsu speed

What's inconsistent about? What's the lore against it? When was it stated he had no training?

It's literally been stated that he went to get that 8 dollar hair cut and has been going around, that's it. He didn't undergo special training, or suddenly become stronger than every grade 1.

Can't prove any of this.

We can. Choso dialed in his CT over 150 F*CKING YEARS. Choso is at his absolute peak.

you're just repeating stuff I've already addressed in my original message, this is sad...

Nah you didn't

If someone says "you're x, not just because of your speed but also your CT" then that means x is the outcome of both factors, not solely one, which is what I said and you strawmanned me into saying it's only one when that's ironically your position. Maki didn't just say "oh you also have a CT ig"

you still use it to downplay the speed component and how he objectively outsped Toji-level Maki

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

I read on reddit that the kanji for "awakening" (覚醒) in the recent chapter were only used once before in the entire manga and that was when gojo had his awakening/enlightenment vs toji, when he gained RCT.

 

[Rosa]

No? It just means he can accelerate to his peak speed faster than Maki can, with his peak speed being supersonic while Maki's is mach .79

So you agree the scene shows Cursya as faster than Maki then

That's still Naoya projection jujutsu speed

Okay, what contradictions exist then? When does Cursya outspeed Kamo without accelerating to the speed of sound or beyond?

It's literally been stated that he went to get that 8 dollar hair cut and has been going around, that's it. He didn't undergo special training, or suddenly become stronger than every grade 1.

No it hasn't, also Kusakabe, human Naoya, and Naobito still slam so not every grade 1.

We can. Choso dialed in his CT over 150 F*CKING YEARS. Choso is at his absolute peak.

That doesn't mean he's at his peak, especially since he was a foetus for those 150 years, so idk why you love making up these assumptions and then using them as your basis. I go off of feats, if a character demonstrates that they can react to another character in a fight, I don't say "oh but this other character trained for a really really really long time and he's not fast", I accept the feats and move on with it. Give me anti-feats to Kamo being subsonic or stop derailing about Kamo.

you still use it to downplay the speed component and how he objectively outsped Toji-level Maki

You're not even engaging with the argument anymore. You've basically dropped 90% of your points of contention and your only meaningful attempts at criticism are you having issue with me saying Kamo scales to a certain level - completely unremoved from the Maki discussion. Nice implicit concession ig.

 

[Rosa]

I read on reddit that the kanji for "awakening" (覚醒) in the recent chapter were only used once before in the entire manga and that was when gojo had his awakening/enlightenment vs toji, when he gained RCT.

put your stocks in Yuji...

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

put your stocks in Yuji...

I been locked in

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

So you agree the scene shows Cursya as faster than Maki then

Not by that much

Okay, what contradictions exist then? When does Cursya outspeed Kamo without accelerating to the speed of sound or beyond?

When he's not flying and when he tags Kamo with him barely reacting. Also even just by flying Kamo barely reacts from hundreds of meters away

No it hasn't, also Kusakabe, human Naoya, and Naobito still slam so not every grade 1.

You literally put Kamo above Naoya and Naobito...

That doesn't mean he's at his peak, especially since he was a foetus for those 150 years, so idk why you love making up these assumptions and then using them as your basis

Gojo hit his peak at 27. There's no way that Choso gets insanely stronger after 150 years of training.

Other people like Mei Mei also hit their physical peak before 150, and Mei Mei herself has greater potential than a weakling like Kamo

I go off of feats, if a character demonstrates that they can react to another character in a fight, I don't say "oh but this other character trained for a really really really long time and he's not fast", I accept the feats and move on with it. Give me anti-feats to Kamo being subsonic or stop derailing about Kamo.

Him being weaker is the anti feat, and also not wanking like you're doing here

You're not even engaging with the argument anymore. You've basically dropped 90% of your points of contention and your only meaningful attempts at criticism are you having issue with me saying Kamo scales to a certain level - completely unremoved from the Maki discussion. Nice implicit concession ig.

No? Stop saying stuff like this, besides your blatant dishonest wank

 

[Rosa]

When he's not flying and when he tags Kamo with him barely reacting. Also even just by flying Kamo barely reacts from hundreds of meters away

Show, because when he's flying through the air and building speed that's him using projection sorcery to reach upwards of mach 3 speeds, not his base speed.

You literally put Kamo above Naoya and Naobito...

When?

Gojo hit his peak at 27

Nothing suggests Gojo's at his peak, and it's also fine for some characters to have different peaks.

Him being weaker is the anti feat, and also not wanking like you're doing here

show the feat of him being weaker then...

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Nothing suggests Gojo's at his peak, and it's also fine for some characters to have different peaks.

His statements about people surpassing him imply he's at his own peak

Gojo's like "Oh Yuta and Hakari MIGHT surpass me," not implying "oh they MIGHT become stronger than me rn, but I'll get way stronger later," it's more like surpassing him in general

show the feat of him being weaker then...

The statement suggests it, you have to twist it dishonestly like you did with the sumo shit to say "Omg it's stated she's completely different and way stronger" when it's literally about her f*cking vibes

Show, because when he's flying through the air and building speed that's him using projection sorcery to reach upwards of mach 3 speeds, not his base speed.

He has to stack even further to reach mach 3.

When?

Here in this thread you've claimed this

 

[Rosa]

His statements about people surpassing him imply he's at his own peak

why?

The statement suggests it, you have to twist it dishonestly like you did with the sumo shit to say "Omg it's stated she's completely different and way stronger" when it's literally about her f*cking vibes

Circular disagreement, niceeeeeeeeeeeee. Guac, when you drop a point don't then reference it as the basis for another point without first addressing the evidence you ignored the first time around.

He has to stack even further to reach mach 3.

Not even an engagement with what I said at all.

Here in this thread you've claimed this

I don't remember saying that, but if I did I was wrong. My current position, and the position I've had for weeks, is that Kamo is below Naoya, Naobito, and Kusakabe. There's other grade 1's or lower too ig, like Yuji, Higuruma, Hakari, Choso, Maki, etc.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

why?

read my edited response

Circular disagreement, niceeeeeeeeeeeee. Guac, when you drop a point don't then reference it as the basis for another point without first addressing the evidence you ignored the first time around.

it's literally not thoguh? you have to lterally stretch and be dishonest to arrive at your reading

Not even an engagement with what I said at all.

please just stop, you're not convincing anyone, and the arguments you're making are embarrassing.

I don't remember saying that, but if I did I was wrong. My current position, and the position I've had for weeks, is that Kamo is below Naoya, Naobito, and Kusakabe. There's other grade 1's or lower too ig, like Yuji, Higuruma, Hakari, Choso, Maki, etc.

You had him above all those people.

Kamo is below every grade 1

 

[Rosa]

read my edited response

You're supplementing meaning into the text which isn't necessitated, but this is a mute point anyway idrc.

You had him above all those people.

I had Kamo ABOVE Maki, Hakari, Higuruma, Yuji, etc? Show me ever saying this PLS, it'll be my biggest L.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I had Kamo ABOVE Maki, Hakari, Higuruma, Yuji, etc? Show me ever saying this PLS, it'll be my biggest L.

No, you had him above Naobito, Naoya, and basically every grade 1

FTR, Human Naoya is already close to Toji level. He was strong enough to damage him, first of all, and faster so he really did stand with Toji and Post RCT Gojo. Post RCT Gojo probably loses to Human Naoya

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Guac really trying to challenge Arkenis' band for band supremacy. Will he be up to the task?

 

[Rosa]

No, you had him above Naobito, Naoya, and basically every grade 1

I mean I just don't remember this, but I've already said now I disagree with that position so I don't see the point in continuing to mention it as if to try hold me to it.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I mean I just don't remember this, but I've already said now I disagree with that position so I don't see the point in continuing to mention it as if to try hold me to it.

 

[Rosa]

then I disagree, this is one of my more recent tier lists

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

then I disagree, this is one of my more recent tier lists

absurd tier list

Bro had teen Geto over Toji. I think I'd make something like this after taking 100 kg of crack or something like that. Ah yes, Yaga the grade 1 below like 3 semi grade 1 students...

Bruh, Higuruma above f*cking Yuki Tsukumo... Even with domain, he would only confiscate her cursed tool Garuda. She'd punch through his max reinforcement.

At least some respect on Suguru Geto, the true owner of the open barrier domain expansion "All eveloping garbadhatu"

 

[Rosa]

absurd tier list

Bro had teen Geto over Toji. I think I'd make something like this after taking 100 kg of crack or something like that.

Toji amped himself with a BV before fighting him and Geto ~ Gojo

Ah yes, Yaga the grade 1 below like 3 semi grade 1 students...

Ganji got blitzed by panda and is featless otherwise, with the grades not being perfect indicators of strength

Bruh, Higuruma above f*cking Yuki Tsukumo... Even with domain, he would only confiscate her cursed tool Garuda. She'd punch through his max reinforcement.

Garuda is a shikigami that simply behaves as a cursed tool, so CT confiscation + her CE reinforcement weakens as a result, she has no feats for surviving a fight after that.

At least some respect on Suguru Geto, the true owner of the open barrier domain expansion "All eveloping garbadhatu"

nah

 

[Woomica]

then I disagree, this is one of my more recent tier lists

interesting

 

[YukaSama4]

No, you had him above Naobito, Naoya, and basically every grade 1

FTR, Human Naoya is already close to Toji level. He was strong enough to damage him, first of all, and faster so he really did stand with Toji and Post RCT Gojo. Post RCT Gojo probably loses to Human Naoya

Post RCT Gojo violates Naoya

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

then I disagree, this is one of my more recent tier lists

Huh

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Human Naoya is Post Shibuya Yuji victim

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

then I disagree, this is one of my more recent tier lists

This is probably one of the worst lists I’ve ever seen made by a human.

 

[Rosa]

This is probably one of the worst lists I’ve ever seen made by a human.

name your issues with it then

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Too much.

 

[Rosa]

Too much.

either way your comment it insane given we've just had someone arguing for several hours defending the scaling chain: "Curse Naoya >> Human Naoya > RCT Gojo = Toji = Maki ~ 15F Sukuna" after disagreeing peak Sukuna could scale above Naoya's mach 3 speeds, but maybe you agree with Guac idk

 

[Robo432343]

nobara>sukuna...

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

either way your comment it insane given we've just had someone arguing for several hours defending the scaling chain: "Curse Naoya >> Human Naoya > RCT Gojo = Toji = Maki ~ 15F Sukuna" after disagreeing peak Sukuna could scale above Naoya's mach 3 speeds, but maybe you agree with Guac idk

Wasn’t reading their argument nor do I care. Your list still sucks.

 

[Rosa]

Wasn’t reading their argument nor do I care. Your list still sucks.

send yours

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

send yours

Haven’t made one. I’m also waiting for more Awakened Yuji feats to solidly push him > Maki & Hakari (I already have him above them).

 

[YukaSama4]

name your issues with it then

Because you didn't have Yuta above 15F Sukuna

either way your comment it insane given we've just had someone arguing for several hours defending the scaling chain: "Curse Naoya >> Human Naoya > RCT Gojo = Toji = Maki ~ 15F Sukuna" after disagreeing peak Sukuna could scale above Naoya's mach 3 speeds, but maybe you agree with Guac idk

RCT Gojo violates all the Naoyas together

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Post RCT Gojo violates Naoya

nah, Naoya gets him

Human Naoya is Post Shibuya Yuji victim

Literally yapping

This is probably one of the worst lists I’ve ever seen made by a human.

Fax

 

[Rosa]

Because you didn't have Yuta above 15F Sukuna

true....