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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

M3X_2.0 said:
Sorry sir

Maki is violating every single Grade 1
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Nah uh
gAGJsT9.png
 
I'm fine with the 1 microsecond cap being removed tbh, it was pretty much a formality considering how many other things this verse has that places it leagues below MHS+ like even with Sukuna being weakened by Yuji's Soul Manip rn, he's still in the Zone and landing Black Flashes yet susceptible to being tagged by Yuji's Piercing Blood
 
Sukuna isn’t even that nerfed to where he’d be that much slower, as in going from FTL vs Kashimo to supersonic attacks being relevant
 
So just wondering have all the profiles been updated in terms of scaling? Cause I see a whole bunch of scaling between characters of different tiers even though they aren’t the same tier.

For example Jogo is stronger than 3 Finger Sukuna but he’s still just considered 8-B while Sukuna is 8-A.

Like this isn’t the only one I see. I saw around a dozen or so of these scaling problems on JJK profiles.
 
What about Choso being 8-B when he punched a hole in Uraume’s hand with Piercing Blood that needed to be healed with RCT?

Or Hakari being Low 7-C even though Uraume’s profile says they are 7-C even though they fought on par with Hakari
 
Ahh I see. Was wondering why the scaling was such a mess. Like I could’ve sworn it was stated by Gege that Kenjaku would have a hard time against Jogo and Mahito after Shibuya Incident. And yet he was Low 7-C while Jogo was just 8-B while Mahito was 8-A.
 
SunDaGamer said:
I'm fine with the 1 microsecond cap being removed tbh, it was pretty much a formality considering how many other things this verse has that places it leagues below MHS+ like even with Sukuna being weakened by Yuji's Soul Manip rn, he's still in the Zone and landing Black Flashes yet susceptible to being tagged by Yuji's Piercing Blood
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...which was fired right in his face

...yet barely tagged him


Shit, in the previous chapter, he dodged a Piercing Blood fired from behind him
 
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Peter1129 said:
Ahh I see. Was wondering why the scaling was such a mess. Like I could’ve sworn it was stated by Gege that Kenjaku would have a hard time against Jogo and Mahito after Shibuya Incident. And yet he was Low 7-C while Jogo was just 8-B while Mahito was 8-A.
Click to expand...
This is why I think Jogo is so underrated even though many fans will try to dismiss this statement
 
Peter1129 said:
Ahh I see. Was wondering why the scaling was such a mess. Like I could’ve sworn it was stated by Gege that Kenjaku would have a hard time against Jogo and Mahito after Shibuya Incident. And yet he was Low 7-C while Jogo was just 8-B while Mahito was 8-A.
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This doesn't mean Jogo and Mahito scale to him physically. Everything isn't about physicals. They will stay those tiers. M3x already went over their ap actually recently in a crt same as others so any 8-B and 8-A you see will most likely be staying as is
 
Peter1129 said:
Ahh I see. Was wondering why the scaling was such a mess. Like I could’ve sworn it was stated by Gege that Kenjaku would have a hard time against Jogo and Mahito after Shibuya Incident. And yet he was Low 7-C while Jogo was just 8-B while Mahito was 8-A.
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IIRC this is cap. He said there is a possibility he could have some trouble, but knowing what we know, he'd slam
 
SunDaGamer said:
I'm fine with the 1 microsecond cap being removed tbh, it was pretty much a formality considering how many other things this verse has that places it leagues below MHS+ like even with Sukuna being weakened by Yuji's Soul Manip rn, he's still in the Zone and landing Black Flashes yet susceptible to being tagged by Yuji's Piercing Blood
Click to expand...
It's an off guard attack on Sukuna literally cm away from his face alongside it barely scrapping him, whilst Sukuna is literally holding back to match their level like what he's been doing the entire fight (meaning it doesn't scale to him in speed necessarily at all), but also if we wanna be particular simply landing BF isn't the same thing as Gojo saying he can land punches in that time frame at will meaning you can't backscale current severely weakened Sukuna to Gojo from just "he landed black flashes".

Also, is it really an accepted thing here that Piercing Blood being called supersonic all the way back in Shibuya means all use of the technique (even by FAR stronger characters with better cursed energy manipulation) is capped at mach 1.1? Even if the technique is later shown to have better feats, to be stronger, to be used by more proficient users and isn't stated to ever cap at any given speed or to still be the same speed? Why would we assume this position as a way to discredit on panel statements and feats as outliers, we should have a way higher standard of evidence for claims like this.
 
If you think Piercing Blood got faster, then you have to prove it. I don’t even remember it doing the sonic booms anymore and that’s what makes it Supersonic.

How fast did it get? How to use it for calcs? How are we supposed to rate it? It’s just your headcanon.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
For someone who was supposedly reacting at one microsecond this means literally nothing.
Click to expand...
PB = 343 m/s = 34,300 cm/s
distance = lets say 1 cm for now, could be higher or lower by small margins
time for Sukuna to dodge = 0.00002915451

An off-guard and holding back character succeeding to react within 0.00002 seconds with struggle doesn't contradict them, at their peak, perceiving 0.00001 second time frames
 
M3X_2.0 said:
If you think Piercing Blood got faster, then you have to prove it. I don’t even remember it doing the sonic booms anymore and that’s what makes it Supersonic.

How fast did it get? How to use it for calcs? How are we supposed to rate it? It’s just your headcanon.
Click to expand...
The evidence being superior feats later on when used by faster, stronger, more skilled characters. I don't know how you can call that headcanon; I wouldn't say we should upscale Raditz to Granolah simply because they are both struggling with the same technique in DB, do you think I'm committing headcanon by not saying that?
 
Rosa said:
PB = 343 m/s = 34,300 cm/s
distance = lets say 1 cm for now, could be higher or lower by small margins
time for Sukuna to dodge = 0.00002915451

An off-guard and holding back character failing to react within 0.00002 seconds doesn't contradict them, at their peak, perceiving 0.00001 second time frames
Click to expand...
Cool imaginary scenario. A shame that this is not one centimeter.

Also, Yuji had time to do the gest and chant it. That’s most certainly not off-guard as you may think it is.
Rosa said:
The evidence being superior feats later on when used by faster, stronger, more skilled characters. I don't know how you can call that headcanon; I wouldn't say we should upscale Raditz to Granolah simply because they are both struggling with the same technique in DB, do you think I'm committing headcanon by not saying that?
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Sorry but you have no idea of what you’re talking about. This is beyond your knowledge about powerscaling (cringe). This is about calculations. Piercing Blood could’ve been used by ******* Gojo at his peak and it would still be a Supersonic attack. Doesn’t matter how many times Choso got stronger, how fast his opponents were. You have no idea how to rate a “faster” Piercing Blood, how to use it for calculations and how to prove it got faster.

Yeah, it’s all your headcanon. Choso was improving his Blood Manipulation for 150 years and he came out with Supersonic as its attack speed. And some techniques were slower. Stop with this bullshit.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Cool imaginary scenario. A shame that this is not one centimeter.
Click to expand...
In the panel all we see is Yuji placing his hands right next to Sukuna's face, not much there in terms of contradicting the distance.
M3X_2.0 said:
Also, Yuji had time to do the gest and chant it. That’s most certainly not off-guard as you may think it is.
Click to expand...
What gest and chants did Yuji do in the scene?
M3X_2.0 said:
Piercing Blood could’ve been used by ******* Gojo at his peak and it would still be a Supersonic attack.
Click to expand...
It's your burden to prove this; you're arguing that we should be able to dismiss things which happen on panel because it's concretely contradicted in a way which cannot be remedied via other things, so your claim is contingent on piercing blood capping at supersonic speeds and never going above that and yet your only evidence is a statement of far weaker characters using a technique at a supersonic speed. Your evidence doesn't fulfil your requirements of proof, meanwhile my interpretation doesn't require ignoring parts of the series as 'outliers' to make sense and is coherent within the series inverse scaling.
M3X_2.0 said:
Doesn’t matter how many times Choso got stronger, how fast his opponents were. You have no idea how to rate a “faster” Piercing Blood, how to use it for calculations and how to prove it got faster.
Click to expand...
Why do we need an exact statement of a things m/s speed to infer that it's now faster from it tagging far faster and more impressive characters? You're prescribing to me a burden of proof which isn't needed for my conclusion to be validated.
M3X_2.0 said:
Yeah, it’s all your headcanon. Choso was improving his Blood Manipulation for 150 years and he came out with Supersonic as its attack speed. And some techniques were slower. Stop with this bullshit.
Click to expand...
So? Choso was a foetus for those 150 years 😭 also, just because someone's lived for a long time that means they can't get stronger? You're saying I'm the one making headcanon?
 
Rosa said:
The evidence being superior feats later on when used by faster, stronger, more skilled characters. I don't know how you can call that headcanon; I wouldn't say we should upscale Raditz to Granolah simply because they are both struggling with the same technique in DB, do you think I'm committing headcanon by not saying that?
Click to expand...
this is... dogshit reasoning

techniques have a base level needed to emit them. A kamehameha could need 5 ki, kid Goku could use 6 and roshi could use 300, but if ******* Buu used 4 then it wouldn't be a kamehameha

Choso and Kamo both have far more efficient convergence skill than Yuji who couldn't do it efficiently and theirs barely surpassed the speed of sound. Yuji hitting hard doesn't mean his blood manipulation is superior, especially when he's so trash with it he can't do the basic technique of blood manipulation, convergence, effectively
 
KingTempest said:
this is... dogshit reasoning

techniques have a base level needed to emit them. A kamehameha could need 5 ki, kid Goku could use 6 and roshi could use 300, but if ******* Buu used 4 then it wouldn't be a kamehameha
Click to expand...
If we see Roshi use kamehameha and damage / tag characters FAR stronger and faster than characters Goku is capable of damaging and hitting with kamehameha, do you agree then it's reasonable to say Roshi > Goku in the technique even if we aren't directly told the ratio of ki they put into the technique? If so, you agree with what I'm literally saying.
KingTempest said:
Choso and Kamo both have far more efficient convergence skill than Yuji who couldn't do it efficiently and theirs barely surpassed the speed of sound. Yuji hitting hard doesn't mean his blood manipulation is superior, especially when he's so trash with it he can't do the basic technique of blood manipulation, convergence, effectively
Click to expand...
Choso helped Yuji with his PB against Sukuna so this doesn't have any relevance, although I will say Yuji struggling with convergence has no barring on the degree to which he can amp himself and his CT with CE.
 
That shit barely tagging him at face range while he's still weakened is a nothingburger

Besides, while still weakened he dodged a more effective one from Choso just last chapter

There's also the glaring fact that, while still weakened, he blitzed Choso's Piercing Blood ten chapters ago
 
Rosa said:
In the panel all we see is Yuji placing his hands right next to Sukuna's face, not much there in terms of contradicting the distance.
Click to expand...
Please drop this. It’s NOT one centimeter. It literally isn’t. You’re arguing a literal lie.
Rosa said:
What gest and chants did Yuji do in the scene?
Click to expand...
It’s actually implied to be Choso on Yuji’s body. He clapped his hands, converged the blood and chanted “Piercing Blood”. It’s literally in the scan.
Rosa said:
It's your burden to prove this; you're arguing that we should be able to dismiss things which happen on panel because it's concretely contradicted in a way which cannot be remedied via other things, so your claim is contingent on piercing blood capping at supersonic speeds and never going above that and yet your only evidence is a statement of far weaker characters using a technique at a supersonic speed. Your evidence doesn't fulfil your requirements of proof, since my interpretation doesn't require ignoring parts of the series as 'outliers' to make sense.
Click to expand...
Not really my burden to prove it. You said that Piercing Blood is faster by characters that are more skilled. Sukuna used Piercing Water on Gojo and the sonic boom it produced is literally one of the smallest in the series (Mach 1.32). All Piercing Bloods that produced sonic booms are literally in the same ballpark. They are almost as fast as each other.

You still cannot prove that PB used by more skilled characters is faster.
Rosa said:
Why do we need an exact statement of a things m/s speed to infer that it's now faster from it tagging far faster and more impressive characters? You're prescribing to me a burden of proof which isn't needed for my conclusion to be validated.
Click to expand...
”Why do we need proof that this specific attack got faster? Can’t we just headcanon our way through it?”. Also, who are these “more impressive characters” that got tagged by it?
Rosa said:
So? Choso was a foetus for those 150 years 😭 also, just because someone's lived for a long time that means they can't get stronger? You're saying I'm the one making headcanon?
Click to expand...
Stop assuming things I never said. Obviously Choso can stronger. He went from being weaker than Yuji in strength to briefly match Kenjaku (Who should be, at least, in the same ballpark). But you still has to prove PB got a speed enhancement. As of now, it’s just your headcanon.
 
Stolp said:
Can someone please tell me where the evidence is that PB is the same speed everytime it is used? All the translations I have seen is that it exceeds the speed of sound, but that can be true without us assuming it has a set speed beyond that, so there must be some kind of evidence for it right??
Click to expand...
We have multiple calculations proving that PB reaches speeds from Mach 1.10 to 1.30, consistently. While it’s not the same, it’s definitely in the same ballpark.

We also have no evidence that PB surpassed Supersonic speeds.
 
Rosa said:
If we see Roshi use kamehameha and damage / tag characters FAR stronger and faster than characters Goku is capable of damaging and hitting with kamehameha, do you agree then it's reasonable to say Roshi > Goku in the technique even if we aren't directly told the ratio of ki they put into the technique? If so, you agree with what I'm literally saying.
Click to expand...
Nobody cares about the ratio of ki

I'm saying each technique has a base level of effort that fodder or God tiers can utilize, but there's still a base level, and you need to surpass that base level
Yuji could barely surpass the base level
Rosa said:
Choso helped Yuji with his PB against Sukuna so this doesn't have any relevance,
Click to expand...
So Choso's the one who really did this damn piercing blood. Why would this be any different than that
Rosa said:
although I will say Yuji struggling with convergence has no barring on the degree to which he can amp himself and his CT with CE.
Click to expand...
Nobody cares about this at all
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Please drop this. It’s NOT one centimeter. It literally isn’t. You’re arguing a literal lie.
Click to expand...
The entire point of what I said is that it's extremely close to Sukuna's face (borderline touching) and so it's not inconsistent or contradictory, I even acknowledged in my post it going be higher or lower than 1 cm, I'm not being precisely accurate here I'm providing explanations for what you're saying is a contradiction.
M3X_2.0 said:
It’s actually implied to be Choso on Yuji’s body. He clapped his hands, converged the blood and chanted “Piercing Blood”. It’s literally in the scan.
Click to expand...
A character screaming the techniques name as he fires it isn't the same thing as them performing gestures and chants for a character to aim dodge it.
M3X_2.0 said:
All Piercing Bloods that produced sonic booms are literally in the same ballpark. They are almost as fast as each other.
Click to expand...
Why?
M3X_2.0 said:
You still cannot prove that PB used by more skilled characters is faster.
Click to expand...
They hit faster characters, if you're not going to engage with that then idk what to tell you.
M3X_2.0 said:
Stop assuming things I never said. Obviously Choso can stronger. He went from being weaker than Yuji in strength to briefly match Kenjaku (Who should be, at least, in the same ballpark). But you still has to prove PB got a speed enhancement. As of now, it’s just your headcanon.
Click to expand...
So if Choso can get stronger, why can't his PB?
M3X_2.0 said:
We have multiple calculations proving that PB reaches speeds from Mach 1.10 to 1.30, consistently. While it’s not the same, it’s definitely in the same ballpark.
Click to expand...
So piercing blood can vary in speed? Damn, almost as if it's not stagnant...
KingTempest said:
I'm saying each technique has a base level of effort that fodder or God tiers can utilize, but there's still a base level, and you need to surpass that base level
Click to expand...
I agree with this, PB can have a base level speed of supersonic and then get faster from there - similarly to how you formatted your ki ratio argument.
KingTempest said:
Yuji could barely surpass the base level. So Choso's the one who really did this damn piercing blood. Why would this be any different than that
Click to expand...
Conveniently I made an argument already addressing this but you just responded with:
KingTempest said:
Nobody cares about this at all
Click to expand...
 
M3X_2.0 said:
We have multiple calculations proving that PB reaches speeds from Mach 1.10 to 1.30, consistently. While it’s not the same, it’s definitely in the same ballpark.
Click to expand...
So you're using calculations of other PB's to say this one is the same speed, also can you link those calculations? I want to see if they all get the PB speed the same or if they just further prove that the speed can vary.
M3X_2.0 said:
We also have no evidence that PB surpassed Supersonic speeds.
Click to expand...
This isn't relevant, if it turns out the assumption of all PBs being at a stagnate speed at their fastest is baseless, then we can't use that assumption to cap certain speed feats involving PBs.
 
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