Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[M3X_2.0]

The entire point of what I said is that it's extremely close to Sukuna's face (borderline touching) and so it's not inconsistent or contradictory, I even acknowledged in my post it going be higher or lower than 1 cm, I'm not being precisely accurate here I'm providing explanations for what you're saying is a contradiction.

Then your point is meaningless. The fact that it’s higher than 1cm makes it completely false. Look at the length of the PB when it hits Sukuna. That shit had a duckton of centimeters before it hit his face. It’s much higher than the Black Flash timeframe, so it doesn’t make any sense.

A character screaming the techniques name as he fires it isn't the same thing as them performing gestures and chants for a character to aim dodge it.

Either way, Yuji (Choso) still gestured and chanted it. It was not off-guard.

Why

Because I ******* calced it?

They hit faster characters, if you're not going to engage with that then idk what to tell you.

It never did.

So if Choso can get stronger, why can't his PB?

No correlation. Choso is getting stronger. Doesn’t mean Convergence is amping his PB. It was never shown, stated or implied.

So piercing blood can vary in speed? Damn, almost as if it's not stagnant...

It’s almost like every single Piercing Blood ranges from 1.10 to 1.30 in Mach numbers!! Let me tell you a secret: It has never surpassed these numbers by a long margin to be even considered that big of an upgrade!!!!

So you're using calculations of other PB's to say this one is the same speed, also can you link those calculations?

I’m being generous with this one because there’s not a single proof that one hit Supersonic speeds. It never produced a sonic boom to begin with.

If this PB doesn’t have the same speed as the others, how fast is it? If you say it’s Hypersonic for example, how to prove it?

You can find them here and in the verse page: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:SunDaGamer/JJKProject

This isn't relevant, if it turns out the assumption of all PBs being at a stagnate speed at their fastest is baseless, then we can't use that assumption to cap certain speed feats involving PBs.

You’re arguing against an invisible enemy.

 

[Rosa]

Fan book does states PB speed increasing with compression.

Can you send this statement? If true, then this just completely ruins their attempts to cap Sukuna at Shibuya Choso's PB speed lmfaooo

 

[M3X_2.0]

Fan book does states PB speed increasing with compression. There is no fixed speed for that. It's baseline speed is stated to be Supersonic.

This means literally nothing.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can you send this statement? If true, then this just completely ruins their attempts to cap Sukuna at Shibuya Choso's PB speed lmfaooo

Delusion at its finest. Acting like we didn’t know that for months now.

 

[Rosa]

Then your point is meaningless. The fact that it’s higher than 1cm makes it completely false.

A margin of error makes a point meaningless? Instead of fixating on this point, just provide a way to measure it at least.

Either way, Yuji (Choso) still gestured and chanted it. It was not off-guard.

No proof of that so...

Because I ******* calced it?

"I calced these instances of PB to be x speed, therefore ALL PB are x speed" - can you not see how this a hasty generalisation? Especially considering you've already conceded that PB has a VARYING speed from feat to feat?

No correlation. Choso is getting stronger. Doesn’t mean Convergence is amping his PB. It was never shown, stated or implied.

I never said Choso getting stronger makes PB get stronger, I'm asking YOU to prove PB CAN'T get stronger. Completely different claim.

It’s almost like every single Piercing Blood ranges from 1.10 to 1.30 in Mach numbers!! Let me tell you a secret: It has never surpassed these numbers by a long margin to be even considered that big of an upgrade!!!!

"yes it ranges in speed, but it's hasn't yet ranged enough to be as fast as these feats suggest therefore it can't!" - once again another hasty generalisation. Your entire position here is purely fallacious.

If this PB doesn’t have the same speed as the others, how fast is it? If you say it’s Hypersonic for example, how to prove it?

Easy; if an attack hits a MHS+ then it's fast enough to be relevant for those tiers in that specific instance (given there's no explicit anti-feats). It's literally that simple, this shit has been the cornerstone for inverse scaling since this communities conception lmfao, saying we should just dismiss inverse feats unless we have stated confirmation that a technique is on their level is insanely obtuse.

Delusion at its finest. Acting like we didn’t know that for months now.

Then you'd agree that PB can be amplified in speed, therefore saying it STAGNATES in speed is wrong. You're simply just wrong

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This means literally nothing.

It means there is no fixed speed for that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Can you send this statement? If true, then this just completely ruins their attempts to cap Sukuna at Shibuya Choso's PB speed lmfaooo

BLOOD MANIPULATION (赤血操術 - sekketsu sōjutsu)
The Kamo clan’s inherited technique of manipulating blood.

A technique that allows the user to manipulate and attack with blood reinforced with cursed energy. It’s possible to create a myriad of moves by combining techniques from Blood Manipulation, like Piercing Blood, which takes the blood that was compressed using Convergence, and then launches it at the opponent at supersonic speeds.

— Panel caption: The greater the pressure exerted by Convergence, the greater the speed and strength of Piercing Blood will be.

Well, I don't even know why the argument about a weakened Sukuna getting just a scratch is being made when Gojo's statement about landing a Black Flash at will is straightforward. At this point, it's dishonest to try to deny Gojo's own words. It's not as if there is no indication that weakened Sukuna scales to Gojo's speed. Additionally, Yuta already mentioned that if it weren't for Gojo, they would have died in an instant, indicating that the damage Sukuna received heavily weakened him. Not to mention, heavily weakened Sukuna blitzes Maki, who can more or less perceive and predict Mach 3 speed.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

I feel like we are focusing on every feat a little to much when it comes to speed, cuse I mean yeah there is gonna be inconsistency, like for example kukashibo from demon slayer who scales far above hashira and slayers in all stats (other than tanjiro at the end and yurichi) blocking a shotgun blast just barely after being surprised by it and he scales above 1.8k mach (and he was later tagged by the gun as well which should make no sense at his speed and all that)

 

[Stolp]

I’m being generous with this one because there’s not a single proof that one hit Supersonic speeds. It never produced a sonic boom to begin with.

That's okay all I'm after is evidence that this PB is the same speed as the others.

If this PB doesn’t have the same speed as the others, how fast is it? If you say it’s Hypersonic for example, how to prove it?

It's not about me granting it a certain speed, it's about finding out why we're saying this PB is x speed baselessly so far.

You’re arguing against an invisible enemy.

It is, it's used as a refute against the main topic of where the evidence is for all PBs to be at stagnate speed, if it isn't then it was never relevant to bring up.

 

[LordGinSama]

PB can logically be faster depending on what's used in conjunction with it. For instance Flowing Red Scale should logically amplify the speed of PB since FRS also increases the blood flow speed.


The issue however isn't about if PB can be shot faster. It can but there's literally nothing stating the speed of later PB's so even if it did get faster its useless unless we know by exactly how much.

 

[M3X_2.0]

A margin of error makes a point meaningless? Instead of fixating on this point, just provide a way to measure it at least.

It does. It literally disproves your point. Means the timeframe is not comparable.

No proof of that so...

Brother he had TO GESTURE THE PIERCING BLOOD. All Piercing Blood works like that. How the **** is that panel not a proof? Yuji literally HAD TO CLAP HIS HANDS. What the ****?

"I calced these instances of PB to be x speed, therefore ALL PB are x speed" - can you not see how this a hasty generalisation? Especially considering you've already conceded that PB has a VARYING speed from feat to feat?

What are the reasons we have to believe that any of the not calculated PB have a higher or lower speeds than the one I calced? It’s not generalizing it, I calculated every stance of PB to be Mach 1.10 to 1.30. Why should I believe the others are faster or slower? Why should they be? I have proof that PB constantly hit these speeds and don’t surpass it by a huge margin, maintaining the canonical Supersonic speeds.

I never said Choso getting stronger makes PB get stronger, I'm asking YOU to prove PB CAN'T get stronger. Completely different claim.

I mean, PB can get stronger, it’s just not in the wankable way you think it is.

"yes it ranges in speed, but it's hasn't yet ranged enough to be as fast as these feats suggest therefore it can't!" - once again another hasty generalisation. Your entire position here is purely fallacious.

This is a very idiotic argument.

Easy; if an attack hits a MHS+ then it's fast enough to be relevant for those tiers in that specific instance (given there's no explicit anti-feats). It's literally that simple, this shit has been the cornerstone for inverse scaling since this communities conception lmfao, saying we should just dismiss inverse feats unless we have stated confirmation that a technique is on their level is insanely obtuse.

Dude WHAT THE **** was this comment. Yeah, I know that PB would get a speed upgrade if it hit a character faster than Supersonic. But it never did. I’m asking for characters that got hit by PB but are canonically faster than Supersonic (no ******* one)

Then you'd agree that PB can be amplified in speed, therefore saying it STAGNATES in speed is wrong. You're simply just wrong

I swear to God that I’d be calling you names if I could. You can get tf out if you’re gonna ignore my comments. “Stagnates” my ass. I’m literally saying that PB ranges in speed. It literally does. I PROVED it did. I mathematically proved it did.

It’s just not that wankable as you think it is. PB isn’t reaching ******* MHS speeds. “Oh but why” because it never did ffs. Can PB go faster than Supersonic? Possibly. Has it done it? Of course it didn’t.

Holy **** you’re a ******* door.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It's not about me granting it a certain speed, it's about finding out why we're saying this PB is x speed baselessly so far.

I actually don’t think this PB is useful at all because we don’t know its speed. We know that it should be, at least, Supersonic. But the exact Mach number? I don’t know. It never produced a Mach cone. Or we haven’t seen it.

If you do not agree that it should have the same speed as the previous ones, you might as well disregard it completely. Because this shit is not scaling any higher than that unless we find some way to calc it.

It is, it's used as a refute against the main topic of where the evidence is for all PBs to be at stagnate speed, if it isn't then it was never relevant to bring up.

”It is” it is what brother. What are you even arguing for here? I’ve told you PB varies in speed but it never surpassed Supersonic speeds. What are you even discussing here.

 

[LordGinSama]

I feel like we are focusing on every feat a little to much when it comes to speed, cuse I mean yeah there is gonna be inconsistency, like for example kukashibo from demon slayer who scales far above hashira and slayers in all stats (other than tanjiro at the end and yurichi) blocking a shotgun blast just barely after being surprised by it and he scales above 1.8k mach (and he was later tagged by the gun as well which should make no sense at his speed and all that)

PREACH.


Not sure why folk act like Mach 3 is an anti feat whenever Maki was only blitzed by it before fully awakening her HR.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It means there is no fixed speed for that.

Sure. If you read the comments you’d know I’m not denying that.

 

[Rosa]

The issue however isn't about if PB can be shot faster. It can but there's literally nothing stating the speed of later PB's so even if it did get faster its useless unless we know by exactly how much.

I'm fine with saying for the sake of calcs we should stick to mach 1.1 unless given an explicit statement, I'm more so referencing how PB shouldn't be used to post hoc have like 50,000+ feats in the series get removed as 'outliers'.

Brother he had TO GESTURE THE PIERCING BLOOD. All Piercing Blood works like that. How the ** is that panel not a proof? Yuji literally HAD TO CLAP HIS HANDS. What the **?

Clapping hands together != Sukuna expecting Yuji to use a CT he's never seen or known Yuji to possess

What are the reasons we have to believe that any of the not calculated PB have a higher or lower speeds than the one I calced? It’s not generalizing it, I calculated every stance of PB to be Mach 1.10 to 1.30. Why should I believe the others are faster or slower? Why should they be? I have proof that PB constantly hit these speeds and don’t surpass it by a huge margin, maintaining the canonical Supersonic speeds.

This shifting of the burden of proof is getting tedious and idk how you can't comprehend this simple point. Saying something CAN'T be the case is different from asking why something is the case, you're saying it CAN'T be the case so you have to prove that. If this convo started with me saying "PB is x speed" I'd understand your response more, but it started with you saying it CAN'T be faster and then demanding I need to prove it is faster to demonstrate otherwise (although I think I can with it tagging Sukuna but whatever).

I mean, PB can get stronger, it’s just not in the wankable way you think it is.

What suggests there's a limit inverse?

This is a very idiotic argument.

Yet you're the one committing to fallacious reasoning, such as saying "x thing being mach 1.3 in this instance makes it mach 1.3 in all instances"

Dude WHAT THE ** was this comment. Yeah, I know that PB would get a speed upgrade if it hit a character faster than Supersonic. But it never did. I’m asking for characters that got hit by PB but are canonically faster than Supersonic (no ***** one)

So you agree PB can be so fast IF it hit faster characters? So it can't be used as an anti-feat to dismiss stuff as outliers? Which is what I've been saying the entire time? Nice concession.

I swear to God that I’d be calling you names if I could. You can get tf out if you’re gonna ignore my comments. “Stagnates” my ass. I’m literally saying that PB ranges in speed. It literally does. I PROVED it did. I mathematically proved it did.

It’s just not that wankable as you think it is. PB isn’t reaching ******* MHS speeds. “Oh but why” because it never did ffs. Can PB go faster than Supersonic? Possibly. Has it done it? Of course it didn’t.

Holy ** you’re a ***** door.

Funny you say this yet just concede I'm right, GG tho good effort.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also M3X calm down before you have a stroke lol.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Also M3X calm down before you have a stroke lol.

as a great man once said

"PREACH."

 

[M3X_2.0]

Funny you say this yet just concede I'm right, GG tho good effort.

Nah, you’re just a door. Cannot read my comments properly. I never said PB has a stagnated speed. It does vary. But it does not go beyond Supersonic, as mathematically proved countless of time.

Also M3X calm down before you have a stroke lol.

I can’t with this guy. Dude was arguing based on something he invented.

Bro simply could not understand a straightforward point I made an hour ago and kept saying the same thing. Mf still think I was saying that PB is only Mach 1.1 or something.

So you agree PB can be so fast IF it hit faster characters?

Like look at this Gin, dude was NOT keeping up with the discussion.

 

[Rosa]

Nah, you’re just a door. Cannot read my comments properly. I never said PB has a stagnated speed. It does vary. But it does not go beyond Supersonic, as mathematically proved countless of time.

And you couldn't prove that PB has a limit like that, you're just saying it hasn't yet (which is fine) but that doesn't mean it CAN'T, which is the only thing I was contending. You're conflating something not doing something with something being unable to do something.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Holy **** you did it again

 

[Rosa]

Holy **** you did it again

you came into this discussion already heated saying something can't be the case, I asked why, things divulged, and now you're saying it can be the case it just hasn't been the case yet whilst trying to insult me after the fact. I get you're malding and shit, but genuinely log off and go chill, you're being incredibly irrational with this cope.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[Rosa]

ngl I kinda wish the military invasion plot point was dragged out a bit more, things seemed to just get brushed away super quickly and forgotten after like 2 chapters of seeing soldiers get brutally killed.

 

[M3X_2.0]

you came into this discussion already heated saying something can't be the case, I asked why, things divulged, and now you're saying it can be the case it just hasn't been the case yet whilst trying to insult me after the fact. I get you're malding and shit, but genuinely log off and go chill, you're being incredibly irrational with this cope.

Whatever fits your narrative. Not entertaining you anymore.

 

[LordGinSama]

USA military needs to drop some freedom on Japan during this fight.


Nukes >>>> Cursed Energy. Team Amurica *******.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

PREACH.


Not sure why folk act like Mach 3 is an anti feat whenever Maki was only blitzed by it before fully awakening her HR.

Oh and btw this reminds me of something

mach 500 bleach?
yeah like hell

 

[M3X_2.0]

Unlike what people say I think Kenjaku was such a bad villain. “Wow such a mastermind” and when you pay closer attention dude is just a poorly written Zetsu (that’s how low the standard is).

Nothing special about him. The only time dude fought properly he took that anti-grav technique from his ASS so Gege could make him live.

Also, auraless. Died by Yuta’s hands after saying he’s not that impressive when was scared as **** and Satoru threatened to end his ass.

The best villain in the series yet is Mahito imo. His dynamic with Yuji and Nanami is GOATed. JJK peaked there.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[M3X_2.0]

By the way, be careful when using TCB current translations. They are translating everything very adapted and losing context from a more direct, on point translation.



Translating this tweet from Kaisen Backup:

“I totally agree with this. TCB’s current translation is too much adapted. It loses a lot from the original.

I sympathize more with “Shimo’s” translations, who unfortunately left TCB, but his work outside of TCB is much times better”

I recommend using Kaisen Backup’s translations.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

The entire fight after Gojo might as well just be the same shenanigans that eventually left Sukuna bored as hell during the Heian era

That mf should've just left so he can wait for Jujutsu society to get stronger and for the college students to grow up

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sukuna almost getting erased from existence by Jacob’s Ladder: **** it

A girl with 0 CE: Holy shit??

That’s how his excitement works and it’s weird as ****.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

I sympathize more with “Shimo’s” translations, who unfortunately left TCB, but his work outside of TCB is much times better”

Much times indeed

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Sukuna almost getting erased from existence by Jacob’s Ladder: **** it

A girl with 0 CE: Holy shit??

That’s how his excitement works and it’s weird as ****.

I mean one is a CT he has already seen a number of times (213 and his heian era fight with angel and her clan) and the other one is a direct spit in the face of Jujutsu as a whole.

I'd honestly be more excited to face the second one due to its uniqueness

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

...which was fired right in his face

...yet barely tagged him


Shit, in the previous chapter, he dodged a Piercing Blood fired from behind him

think it was also implied that Choso helped him make a effective PB too. it's why they randomly clapped hands in one focused small panel of their hands, and why choso said that's why he gotta look after Yuji. and we see yuji do PB right there.

it also lines up with the weird dialogue between Yuji and Kusakabe in their training pre sukuna va gojo fight. As if Kusakabe was Yuji and Yuji was Kusakabe. Infact, this is also explicitly referenced with a extra volume page in vol 25, with yuji going "A young, and light body"

若いな...体が軽い
A young...and light body
not something a teenager would say. BTW this is the extra volume page right after that chapter where Kusakabe and Yuji trained.



However it seems to also just steal others skill somehow? Because Yuji using piercing blood there obviously wasn't Choso. He can't do a black flash after all like Yuji does, nor would he have eyes like that after BF. It seems like he can either seemingly body swap, but also just use somebody's technique instead. or skill? well, yall get the gist. Though we do need more explanation of course, but nonetheless he did a effective convergence there. Now as for speed, I don't think I have to explain that the ce reinforcement from Shibuya Yuji Pre Choso fight, and Shinjuku Yuji is several levels apart do I? Even if one of you here were to assume it was Choso firing PB, that's still Shinjuku Choso, and not Pre Yuji vs Choso Shibuya fight Choso. The level of reinforcement is obviously different.

For someone who was supposedly reacting at one microsecond this means literally nothing.

Can you prove that their reinforcement is Yuji vs Choso fight level please. ty.

If you think Piercing Blood got faster, then you have to prove it. I don’t even remember it doing the sonic booms anymore and that’s what makes it Supersonic.

? If that's just one of the reasons then that's funny, given the volume release says it is faster than sound upon being released by Shibuya Choso.

if you think the sonic booms are the sole reason for it being supersonic then do you think they're now Mach 1 and below each time they're released by Shinjuku Choso? so their reinforcement got extremely trash is what you say.

No correlation. Choso is getting stronger. Doesn’t mean Convergence is amping his PB. It was never shown, stated or implied.

"The initial velocity of the blood, enhanced by cursed energy, surpasses even the speed of sound." -> You compress the blood, which already has its own velocity, and furthermore you can further compress it depending on your efficency, which is what Yuji sucks at. -> Enchancing it with your CE amps it further. This is seperate from compressing your blood. Anybody can reinforce the blood. Which then leaves it up to how good your ce output is. or ce control. same thing really in a way.

I sympathize more with “Shimo’s” translations, who unfortunately left TCB, but his work outside of TCB is much times better”

(Shimo is in Shishiso team)

 

[Giannysmag]

I feel like using PB as an arguament against MHS Sukuna is really silly when Sukuna has spent the entire fight absolutely ******** on the technique's speed

• He blitzes both PB and Choso despite having his back turned
• He casually blocks PB again without even looking at it
• Dodges it once more with his back turned and also while boxing with Miguel
• Dodges it yet again when Choso is less than a meter from him and Yuji is physically restraining him
• Blitzes Maki who Mach 3 Naoya couldn't land a hit on (not PB but the same point)

But because he didn't fully dodge a point blank PB from a Yuji that's literally holding on to him, there's no way he could be beyond Hypersonic aight bro

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I feel like using PB as an arguament against MHS Sukuna is really silly when Sukuna has spent the entire fight absolutely ******** on the technique's speed

• He blitzes both PB and Choso despite having his back turned
• He casually blocks PB again without even looking at it
• Dodges it once more with his back turned and also while boxing with Miguel
• Dodges it yet again when Choso is less than a meter from him and Yuji is physically restraining him
• Blitzes Maki who Mach 3 Naoya couldn't land a hit on (not PB but the same point)

But because he didn't fully dodge a point blank PB from a Yuji that's literally holding on to him, there's no way he could be beyond Hypersonic aight bro

One more thing. Sukuna's face says it all; he didn't care a bit. The most dishonest thing is ignoring Gojo's statement, 'I can do it at will if it was that simple.' Like, bruh, you don't need to spoon-feed this. I don't care if others get MHS speed ratings or not, but no damage full-power Sukuna and Gojo should.

 

[Giannysmag]

One more thing. Sukuna's face says it all; he didn't care a bit. The most dishonest thing is ignoring Gojo's statement, 'I can do it at will if it was that simple.' Like, bruh, you don't need to spoon-feed this. I don't care if others get MHS speed ratings or not, but no damage full-power Sukuna and Gojo should.

Agreed, I'm also not entirely sure if anyone else should get MHS but Gojo outright spells it out for us that he is on that level of speed.

Funny how the "We should follow Gege's narrative for speed" mfs are now trying to fight against Gege's narrative

 

[YukaSama4]

We should use Shishiso's translation for the chapters 220-250 and TCB translations before Shimo left them

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

But because he didn't fully dodge a point blank PB from a Yuji that's literally holding on to him, there's no way he could be beyond Hypersonic aight bro

Are we also forgetting that this same Sukuna is constantly getting nerfed. Before the first BF he landed on Maki, he blitzed Maki -> After the first BF, he continues on fighting, gets wounded by Kusakabe and heals those wounds with rct, further depleting his ce reserves = weakening him further, despite his output getting somewhat better through first BF. he does also somewhat continue using rct, then stops there.

Then he continues on fighting further, whilst maintaining CE on his body to forcefully act as his temporary heart, whilst trying to heal it. and also sending out waves of dismantle. Then he gets ONE more arm cut off, which as we know, wounds nerf you, and Naobito losing one nerfed him, and then he gets hit by Yuji again. Then the fight continues with this, and Sukuna hits a BF. Continues fighting and does it again, then Yuji starts hitting him again. Then he gets caught off guard from Yuji using PB (he didn't know this)
Earlier he could donut Choso casually in a blitz, blitzing practically almost everyone who couldn't stop Sukuna from going easily past them whilst Choso was the furthest away from Sukuna. But now, Choso can put up a guard in time for Sukuna going in for landing a BF, and also not get donutted from a BF punch Sukuna.

Funny how the "We should follow Gege's narrative for speed" mfs are now trying to fight against Gege's narrative

Now they (at least one is) is using calcs to argue against for it,
when are we going to calc Naoya speed blitzes. I'm pretty sure there's a Calc that puts cursed Naoya above Mach 3 for blitzing. Or maybe it was Kamo. Calcs >> narrative.

 

[Rosa]

Now they (at least one is) is using calcs to argue against for it,
when are we going to calc Naoya speed blitzes. I'm pretty sure there's a Calc that puts cursed Naoya above Mach 3 for blitzing. Or maybe it was Kamo. Calcs >> narrative.

There's a few, the lowest I've seen is still around mach 30 but other people have calced it as high as mach 70+. So if we wanna rely on calcs over statements then we better be prepared to represent the "irl mach 30 = JJK mach 3" meta lol