Giannysmag
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Mach 10 PB let's go
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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1
- Thread starter PowerToScale
- Start date
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I don't think you deep how crazy 1 microsecond reaction time is, Yuji could've fired Piercing Blood an inch away from Sukuna's face (which is literally impossible because the length from your palms to your fingertips is several inches) and it'd take 74 microseconds to reach him, that's like a regular human having 14.8 seconds to react to a tennis ball flying toward them
Sukuna was staring straight at Yuji and he has Enhanced Senses that allow him to sense people charging up Jujutsu abilities unless his senses no longer cover watching someone clap their hands and chant now
Sukuna is constantly shown to evade Piercing Blood when he's able to, Yuji lowers Sukuna's CE output and weakens Sukuna whenever he punches him yet Sukuna is still capable of being in the Zone and landing Black Flashes in that state
the original tls of the raws had Gojo saying he'd still have to aim for that timeframe to land it meaning he wouldn't actually be operating with that reaction time regularly, translation hell again...
29.154519 microseconds for someone with 1 microsecond reaction speed would be like a pitcher throwing a ball at 3.16 m/s (giving the batter almost 6 seconds to react) which is pretty snail pace when pitchers can throw at 90 mph (40.2 m/s)
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JJK: Cursed Naoya blitzes Kamo
vsbattles.fandom.com
@Dr._whiteee ur dreams are coming true sir. Maki dodging bullet in GW calc now usable. calcs was the true savior of JJK speed scale all along
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I understand that, but Sukuna is also not going all out, he was being grappled and held in place by Yuji (and was holding onto Yuji in return, they were cuddle buddies, and we even see Sukuna attacking Yuji with a cleave at the same time as Yuji does PB), nor do I think he was expecting Yuji to have piercing blood in his kit (hence why I think it's an off guard feat too). Like with all that taken into consideration, I don't think it's insane for Sukuna to be slightly grazed on the cheek.
When he evades them he's still suppressing himself, and also sometimes he'll opt to catch the piercing blood.
I don't think there's much a difference tbh so I'd prefer to avoid a translation debate, although if it comes down to it I'd have to look into the exact raws at some point obvs. Although I will say in this chapter we're also told that characters can foresee a BF incoming, implying they can sense CE delays in this time interval, but that's a far looser argument which I haven't given much thought into and I'll just throw it out there for now to see what everyone's reception of it is.
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Yuji had to let go of Sukuna's head to clasp his hands together for Piercing Blood which is why Sukuna could even move his face out of the way, if anything Sukuna was the one grappling Yuji at the time and I've already made the point about Sukuna's Jujutsu senses and the fact that he was staring at Yuji's hand gesture before PB was fired.
The other instances of his PB dodges show that he will evade it entirely, his one decision to catch PB in another instance is irrelevant here since he decided to dodge it in the latest chapter
It's a direct callback to Mahito sensing Yuji was going to land another BF way before it actually lands
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Yuji's hands let go, not his legs which we see also grappling onto Sukuna.
Overall my position isn't to say without a shadow a doubt x and y are true but simply that this specific instance cannot be used to dismiss more concrete statements or feats due to not only the extenuating circumstances but also the additional topic I already discussed regarding this idea of piercing blood having a capped speed, so I don't think it's necessarily accurate to fixate on the most probable specifics give my claim has a very small burden of proof threshold and thus there can be leeway on these minute details.
I don't see how this at all follows, Sukuna more often than not opting to dodge but also being perfectly comfortable simply tanking the hit to me doesn't suggest anything for this feat in particular - certainly not that Sukuna wasn't suppressing himself still.
I'm aware, I'm just speculating as to the potential for that still being a perception speed thing.
EldemadeDityjon
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Mechamaru's ultimate cannon recalc
vsbattles.fandom.com
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You'd fall over if you tried grappling someone with just your legs like this
Sukuna can dodge PB and fully evades in every instance he chooses to dodge, Sukuna while weakened from Yuji's punches can land Black Flashes, Sukuna while weakened from Yuji's punches fails to completely evade PB from a close range that's my entire foothold in this argument since I don't care about arguing over every other instance of speed scaling in this verse rn
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How will John Werry terrorize us this time?
"Using up his capacity for improvement in a grand punch
Under black glitter
Itadori Yuji opens his eyes!"
Or
"Releasing his capabilities in full force with one strike!
Honored by the black spark
Yuji itadori wakes up!"
"Using up his capacity for improvement in a grand punch
Under black glitter
Itadori Yuji opens his eyes!"
Or
"Releasing his capabilities in full force with one strike!
Honored by the black spark
Yuji itadori wakes up!"
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I don't think simply landing a BF scales you to Gojo's statement, and I don't think Sukuna being grazed by piercing blood is necessarily an anti-feat for him, but we can just agree to disagree ig this seems to be going no where.
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ok. prove the current PB speed caps at Mach 1.1 or 1.3 please. ty.
ye whilst he's being constantly nerfed left and right. u acting as if these didn't exist. wounds also nerf him, especially arms being cut off. and his ce reserves at 9F level at best currently. might be lower. and his output far below too, with him being brain damaged. why we acting like sukuna isn't suffering the worst nerfs known to JJK verse right now.
and u ignoring sukuna watching Yuji use PB for the first time, with Yuji and him grappling over each other a second ago, with Yuji having his legs locked around sukuna (bro thought he is gojo)
furthermore, good jujutsu senses doesn't mean you'd know Yuji would suddenly throw out a PB there. He can sense the ce spark from Yuji, but he's not looking at Choso, but Yuji. So he wouldn't know for certain that Yuji's pulling up a PB at him, until he suddenly said the words itself.
Yuji reinforcement >>>> Choso reinforcement. next.
????. The raws, quite blatantly, state that if that's just the trick behind BF, then he would be able to bring it forth.
-Aim
-Meaning he wouldn't actually be operating with that reaction time regularly
Yeah, it is aim, AS IN intention. Not literally "aiming", like aiming for success, etc. the like. Which is the same as tcbscans saying intentionally/at will
yall are so lost in the sauce
I think there is something both of you failed to notice. Yuji has his knee thrusted up to Sukuna's face, with arms pulling his head down. That seems like a knee hit here. Secondly, fall? Yeah we saw Sukuna quite literally do that against Gojo but had his arms around his leg
. I don't think Yuji's failing to restrict Sukuna over here either. (Yuji) ok.
Current Yuji PB speed >>> Current Choso PB speed. end of argument. PB from Yuji doesn't contradict anything. simple as that. and sukuna was further weakened. Took that punch. took that knee too. so weakened output. only two arms left with only one in good condition.
Literally nothing is being contradicted here whatsoever. Yall suddenly thinking every PB is the same in speed (despite the narrative telling you that you're completely wrong) and must be at Mach 1 range, especially because of calcs is extremely hilarious. go ahead and argue Shibuya Yuji and Choso = current Yuji and Choso in reinforcement
Arkenis
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it's stated several times that piercing blood can be made faster with greater compression, Noritoshi (a master of blood manipulation, head of his clan) was shocked that Choso could possibly condense his blood by such a degree and noted its insane pressure showing different users can surpass the limits of others, and we have calcs demonstrating that different piercing blood attacks are faster than others. The speed isn't stagnant, so we cannot assume a speed for Yuji's piercing blood to downplay future feats - it'll be you who's assuming Yuji's piercing blood is slow to be contrarian about more concrete and explicit statements inverse of characters moving in microsecond time frames.
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I already addressed this. you're just bringing nothing to the table.
think it was also implied that Choso helped him make a effective PB too. it's why they randomly clapped hands in one focused small panel of their hands, and why choso said that's why he gotta look after Yuji. and we see yuji do PB right there.
it also lines up with the weird dialogue between Yuji and Kusakabe in their training pre sukuna va gojo fight. As if Kusakabe was Yuji and Yuji was Kusakabe. Infact, this is also explicitly referenced with a extra volume page in vol 25, with yuji going "A young, and light body"
若いな...体が軽い
A young...and light body
not something a teenager would say. BTW this is the extra volume page right after that chapter where Kusakabe and Yuji trained.
However it seems to also just steal others skill somehow? Because Yuji using piercing blood there obviously wasn't Choso. He can't do a black flash after all like Yuji does, nor would he have eyes like that after BF. It seems like he can either seemingly body swap, but also just use somebody's technique instead. or skill? well, yall get the gist. Though we do need more explanation of course, but nonetheless he did a effective convergence there. Now as for speed, I don't think I have to explain that the ce reinforcement from Shibuya Yuji Pre Choso fight, and Shinjuku Yuji is several levels apart do I? Even if one of you here were to assume it was Choso firing PB, that's still Shinjuku Choso, and not Pre Yuji vs Choso Shibuya fight Choso. The level of reinforcement is obviously different.
Can you prove that their reinforcement is Yuji vs Choso fight level please. ty.
? If that's just one of the reasons then that's funny, given the volume release says it is faster than sound upon being released by Shibuya Choso.
if you think the sonic booms are the sole reason for it being supersonic then do you think they're now Mach 1 and below each time they're released by Shinjuku Choso?
"The initial velocity of the blood, enhanced by cursed energy, surpasses even the speed of sound." -> You compress the blood, which already has its own velocity, and furthermore you can further compress it depending on your efficency, which is what Yuji sucks at. -> Enchancing it with your CE amps it further. This is seperate from compressing your blood. Anybody can reinforce the blood. Which then leaves it up to how good your ce output is. or ce control. same thing really in a way.
(Shimo is in Shishiso team)
Even addressed one of your other arguments already.
PB isn't being retconned. You people just fail to understand it.
``
赤血操術「百斂」
Blood Manipulation Technique: 'Convergence'
血液を加圧し限界まで圧縮する技
A technique that pressurizes blood and compresses it to the limit.
「百斂」で圧縮した血液を一点から解放し撃ち出す
'Convergence,' releases and shoots out the compressed blood from a single point.
呪力で強化された血液の初速音速をも超える
The initial velocity of the blood, enhanced by cursed energy, surpasses even the speed of sound.
赤血操術奥義
Blood Manipulation Ultimate Technique.
``
^ from the volume release of Yuji vs Choso fight
It's a technique that ALLOWS you to compress blood to the limit. Nowhere is it stated that the compression of the blood has a general limit for everybody else. How far you can compress depends on you yourself, which the fanbook even points out.
``
「百斂」の加圧が大きいほど、その反動で「穿血」の速さと貫通力も上昇する。
The greater the pressurization of 'Convergence,' the faster the speed and penetrating power of 'Piercing Blood' increase due to its recoil
``
And there's more.
"So much pressure!" Which is about convergence here. If there was the same limit for everybody else, then Kamo wouldn't be so startled and surprised at all.
Finally, let's go over the very blatant explanation that you yourself and many others are blatantly ignoring.
First, we have convergence. You compress the blood, that's one step that Choso takes. It now has its own initial velocity. Secondly you take a step further and ENHANCE IT with your cursed energy. This PB created by Choso allows the PB to surpass sound of speed itself.
"The initial velocity of the blood, enhanced by cursed energy, surpasses even the speed of sound."
This is as blatant as it gets. You can argue all you want about compression having a general limit as a technique for everybody else regardless of the level of their jujutsu. That all does not matter, when enhancing it boosts its speed further. And I'm sure you all know HOW ce reinforcement works.
EldemadeDityjon
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Are people still showing bs and arguing Weakened Sukuna not dodging PB as a valid arguments to downplay speed for Gojo and Sukuna at full power?
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This is blatantly clear even in viz, the general definition of the convergence of blood manip is that blood is condensed to its limits, it's not something that Choso created, and after this blood gets amped by CE it surpasses the speed of sound
The scan even shows Kamo, which means Kamo also compresses it to the limits
it's the general explanation of the technique
And it's heavily implied in the same scan that CE reinforcements play a major role in its speed
The scan even shows Kamo, which means Kamo also compresses it to the limits
And it's heavily implied in the same scan that CE reinforcements play a major role in its speed
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seems like it.Are people still showing bs and arguing Weakened Sukuna not dodging PB as a valid arguments to downplay speed for Gojo and Sukuna at full power?
and there's more bs
u have people saying this
shibuya yuji & Choso >>>> current Yuji and Choso
Arkenis
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No its not but send where they say they can increase it to greater compression, beyond the limit compared to others. Even your instance of Noritoshi saying this is in reference to Choso, the one we got PB's speed from being above sos.
When it says
This is in reference to when Choso does it to the limit and releases it creating a vapor cone, this is about the fact that when they don't do it to the limit it's weaker and slower, which is what happens in the fight with Yuji. This is not about the max pressurization being different for everyone at all.
Arkenis
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How does ce reinforcement increase speed?
EldemadeDityjon
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Gojo: if BF is simple/easy as hitting within milliseconds I should be able to do itseems like it.
and there's more bs
u have people saying this
shibuya yuji & Choso >>>> current Yuji and Choso
Bu........t Weakened Sukuna tagged by PB
Let's just ignore direct statement from Gojo he is not trustworthy. That's his personal belief. Bro I can't with this fandom
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Just like it can increase the overall physical capabilities
"the blood now reinforced by CE is said to exceed the speed of sound"
Giannysmag
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Cursed Energy enhances speed
vsbattles.fandom.com
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I remember how a year ago or 2Bu........t Weakened Sukuna tagged by PB
Bro I can't with this fandom
People here were like "**** calcs, Naoya is said to be mach 3" "**** calcs, Naobito who's stated to be mach 1 caps the verse"
Now it's "**** Gojo who gives af about Gojo's statements, calcs shows Sukuna at subsonic when he dodges PB"
Giannysmag
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Fr I'm fine with scaling things with statements and narrative instead of calcs, but if we are gonna do that we gotta stay consistent when the narrative puts the god tiers at MHS and not like supersonic
Arkenis
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This would mean reinforced with ce it exceeds the speed of sound, not that you can keep reinforcing it to a higher degree, which is my point.
Every instance there is for the body, I'm asking for piercing blood.Cursed Energy enhances speed
Also a question, is it the compression and condensing or is it the reinforcement that makes it exceed sos? Since ya seem to have just abandoned the compression point and now argue this reinforcement translation.
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ur argument is the same as saying everybody is as good as the other in convergence. congrats. how do u feel arguing that sukuna jujutsu is equal to choso? peak moment?
Are you serious? this is a troll level argument
ANYBODY that reads jjk would know that there is a increase in speed when you use ce reinforcement. Especially more so in the case OF PB, when the PB description LITERALLY spells it out for you.
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Can somebody sum up why Gojo and Sukuna are still not MHS? I don't get the opposing argument
EldemadeDityjon
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Are you trolling right now? Gun already addressed all your queries with raws.
I already addressed this. you're just bringing nothing to the table.
Even addressed one of your other arguments already.
PB isn't being retconned. You people just fail to understand it.
``
赤血操術「百斂」
Blood Manipulation Technique: 'Convergence'
血液を加圧し限界まで圧縮する技
A technique that pressurizes blood and compresses it to the limit.
「百斂」で圧縮した血液を一点から解放し撃ち出す
'Convergence,' releases and shoots out the compressed blood from a single point.
呪力で強化された血液の初速音速をも超える
The initial velocity of the blood, enhanced by cursed energy, surpasses even the speed of sound.
赤血操術奥義
Blood Manipulation Ultimate Technique.
``
^ from the volume release of Yuji vs Choso fight
It's a technique that ALLOWS you to compress blood to the limit. Nowhere is it stated that the compression of the blood has a general limit for everybody else. How far you can compress depends on you yourself, which the fanbook even points out.
``
「百斂」の加圧が大きいほど、その反動で「穿血」の速さと貫通力も上昇する。
The greater the pressurization of 'Convergence,' the faster the speed and penetrating power of 'Piercing Blood' increase due to its recoil
``
And there's more.
"So much pressure!" Which is about convergence here. If there was the same limit for everybody else, then Kamo wouldn't be so startled and surprised at all.
Finally, let's go over the very blatant explanation that you yourself and many others are blatantly ignoring.
First, we have convergence. You compress the blood, that's one step that Choso takes. It now has its own initial velocity. Secondly you take a step further and ENHANCE IT with your cursed energy. This PB created by Choso allows the PB to surpass sound of speed itself.
"The initial velocity of the blood, enhanced by cursed energy, surpasses even the speed of sound."
This is as blatant as it gets. You can argue all you want about compression having a general limit as a technique for everybody else regardless of the level of their jujutsu. That all does not matter, when enhancing it boosts its speed further. And I'm sure you all know HOW ce reinforcement works.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,894
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Simple summary is pure bsGojo: if BF is simple/easy as hitting within milliseconds I should be able to do it
Bu........t Weakened Sukuna tagged by PB
Bro I can't with this fandom
Arkenis
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Please show where its said greater reinforcement can make it go faster then. The page reads "The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is said to exceed the speed of sound" not "the more you reinforce the blood it makes it faster".
Are you serious? this is a troll level argument
Giannysmag
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Sukuna getting grazed by Yuji's point blank PB and apperantly there might be an issue with the translation but idk about that
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This defeats your own arguments. If you think that Kamo can pressurise blood "to the limit" but is then shocked that it's even possible for Choso to pressurise his blood to such an extreme extent then you'd have to acknowledge that different characters have a 'limit' - likely depending on the amount of cursed energy they can pump into the technique and the degree to which they can forcefully condense the blood in their hands (give those are the only 2 factors which are noted for its varying speeds). So different characters MUST have differing limits, and their limits aren't going to be stagnant (Choso empirically can utilise faster piercing bloods). This is reflected in the actual raw japanese, less so in westernised translations.This is blatantly clear even in viz, the general definition of the convergence of blood manip is that blood is condensed to its limits, it's not something that Choso created, and after this blood gets amped by CE it surpasses the speed of sound
The scan even shows Kamo, which means Kamo also compresses it to the limits
it's the general explanation of the technique
And it's heavily implied in the same scan that CE reinforcements play a major role in its speed
Kamo, after witnessing Choso, even laments that this entire time he could've been getting stronger and yet allowed himself to stagnate furthering the narrative implications.
Arkenis
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This is hilarious, not only is Yuji unable to do convergence effectively but he also hit Sukuna. Is Yuji's ineffective convergence now just mhs even though the ability doesn't work that way.
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Sukuna isn't at FP tho so
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Are you questioning the legitimacy of the translation? Really? first off, Viz says kinda the same thing as the translation I posted.
second of all, the translation comes from @Ningenron a previous translation mod on this wiki. So there's no need to try and subtly question the credibility of the translation.
Also what? We're directly told that, when the blood is compressed through blood manipulation, it has already been given its own velocity, hence the wording "initial velocity", then the blood is then enhanced with cursed energy, which further boosts the speed up. These are literally two steps taken here.
Giannysmag
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Did you mean to reply to someone else cause i don't see what that has to do with what i said?
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"This defeats your own arguments"
-proceeds to present my argument
JJK threads are the weirdest ever
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General rule of the verse is that CTs are run by CE, the more CE the stronger the CT.
You are the one who should prove that PB specifically doesnt follow this rule
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wasn't your claim that Kamo being presented implies it's a universal limit of piercing blood? If not then I'm sorry.
