JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Discussion Thread IV: Diamond is Unbreakable

[Chariot190]

Btw I got like 400kj and like 1600 tons, but, definitely half assed it. Rough shape for the deformation, ignored the crumbling when he elbowed it (like the extra bends and stuff), etc, and kinda just did flex bend one way for the LS (what he did was way higher but meh, I'll redo all this to be pixel perfect with extra steps when we make a profile for him). Will redo it later, this just a placeholder, it's a good enough value to finish Jodio (NR can rip through CM, who can take punches from Paco, so NR scales to this value, which is what I was waiting for, a value we can slap on individual drops instead of the puddle). Might get it out next week given it's mostly up to date, just need to add fuckass rock feats from the past 2ch and his two new feats.

As a side note, Paco has military training, so that explains why he like, can throw actual ******* hands.

 

[Chariot190]

How did he not die by blood loss.

Baki pain tolerance apparently.

 

[Shey]

If you think your verse has got insane resilience and pain tolerance, just remember that they're still learning work compared to JoJo

Also wtf is Glory Days' whole shtick, it feels like there's some temporal shit going on with it

 

[Chariot190]

If you think your verse has got insane resilience and pain tolerance, just remember that they're still learning work compared to JoJo

Also wtf is Glory Days' whole shtick, it feels like there's some temporal shit going on with it

Dont know yet, prob wont know for awhile. We just know, he can make bullets go so slow theyre imperceptible, and then seemingly pick up speed right when they need to.
Jodio wonders if he can control the speed.

Though there's 2 problems with that, if they were going slow, they'd also be weaker, yet they can dent steel, puncture walls, etc, so the KE is the same. And 2, at the end of the ch, Paco heard the gunshots, after Billy left the elevator and was far away, and as soon as he did, the bullets all showed up, if it was just slowing the bullets, why would he hear the gun fire moment of WAY after they'd have been fired?

There's def some fuckery going on. Temporal shit would actually make sense, would retain the KE that way, or even storing actions for later, etc, but a minor antag having time manip feels a bit off, though Mandom exists so maybe?

 

[Baken384]

The Class G Forces held together Jotaro's wounds. That is the true answer

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

If you think your verse has got insane resilience and pain tolerance, just remember that they're still learning work compared to JoJo

Mash Burnedead fightning without his spine and heart

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Baki pain tolerance apparently.

Hey now, I was just reminded of that one scene in Baki where that one dude opens his mouth and let a bullet pass through his cheeks. It reminded me of it.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

As a side note, Paco has military training, so that explains why he like, can throw actual ******* hands.

And people thought he was going to be a bum at first, lol

 

[SlendVeny]

Or when Diavolo vomitted razor blades.

He lost ALL the iron in his body, ate one frog, and got it all back, that's superhuman.

 

[Chariot190]

He lost ALL the iron in his body, ate one frog, and got it all back, that's superhuman.

That'd be why.

 

[CBslayeR]

Question, Is there anything stating that you need to die for death loop to take effect from GER?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Question, Is there anything stating that you need to die for death loop to take effect from GER?

The death loop happens because GER is reverting the action of your death to zero, so yeah

 

[Chariot190]

Question, Is there anything stating that you need to die for death loop to take effect from GER?

Yes. Vel states the death loop was due to Diavolo being killed by GER. It also confirms Diavolo's first death was from the GER pummel, not the knife, by that point Diavolo had already been killed. Although Vel being supplementary and not perfect you could choose to ignore that but like, RTZ works by setting something to 0, the death loop is explicitly Diavolo unable to reach the true state of dying, because his death was set to 0.

So, yeah kinda, the way RTZ works, for a death loop to happen, there needs to be a death in the first place to set to 0. Of course how that death happens, doesnt matter, there just needs to be one to RTZ. Could probably get away with near deaths tbh and just set that to 0 and have it be effectively the same thing too but, yeah, RTZ kinda needs something to set to 0 to get going.

 

[Shey]

Mash Burnedead fightning without his spine and heart

Bucciellati reference

 

[Chariot190]

Might just skip updating the lava rock section till the arc done given this whole arc is one big feat (including multiple cases of the rock straight up killing dudes).

In which case, ill just do two more halfassed calcs and call it a day as Jodio himself is mostly done.

 

[Emerald]

Can someone explain to me how Dio was still alive, according to the scientists of Speedwagon Foundation, even with his brain annihilated even though Vampires cant survive without brains

 

[StrymULTRA]

Can someone explain to me how Dio was still alive, according to the scientists of Speedwagon Foundation, even with his brain annihilated even though Vampires cant survive without brains

Araki forgot.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Might just skip updating the lava rock section till the arc done given this whole arc is one big feat (including multiple cases of the rock straight up killing dudes).

In which case, ill just do two more halfassed calcs and call it a day as Jodio himself is mostly done.

Oh, hey, did you notice that Jodio used November Rain in his mouth on the bullet? Would that be a good feat of some kind?

 

[Chariot190]

Oh, hey, did you notice that Jodio used November Rain in his mouth on the bullet? Would that be a good feat of some kind?

Maybe, maybe not. Idk how Glory Days works yet and neither do they. If, it was a normal bullet velocity it'd like mach 3ish tho. Which, not relevant for NR. NR atm doesn't actually need speed feats below HH or MHS. It HAS high speed, the problem is nobody scales to it, so everyone ELSE needs speed feats and scaling.

Can someone explain to me how Dio was still alive, according to the scientists of Speedwagon Foundation, even with his brain annihilated even though Vampires cant survive without brains

Built diff unironically. Though for reference, when they say "destroy the brain" they mean like actually flat out total obliteration of the whole structure, we see this constantly. Dio himself has been shot in the head, had his head bisected and was fine, skewered, Plat pulped like 50%+ of it to where they flatout say it was "destroyed". Straizo had the top of his head blown off, etc. Even in the Chariot scene, Dio doesnt even say Pol wouldve killed him if he blendered his brain, just that it'd actually do damage. For strong vampires, you basically have to turn 100% of the brain to mush for it to "kill".

 

[Emerald]

Built diff unironically. Though for reference, when they say "destroy the brain" they mean like actually flat out total obliteration of the whole structure, we see this constantly. Dio himself has been shot in the head, had his head bisected and was fine, skewered, Plat pulped like 50%+ of it to where they flatout say it was "destroyed". Straizo had the top of his head blown off, etc. Even in the Chariot scene, Dio doesnt even say Pol wouldve killed him if he blendered his brain, just that it'd actually do damage. For strong vampires, you basically have to turn 100% of the brain to mush for it to "kill".

so in this scene dio didnt have his entire brain 100% anihilated to count as killing him?

 

[CBslayeR]

so in this scene dio didnt have his entire brain 100% anihilated to count as killing him?

it was probably just splattered everywhere tbh

 

[CBslayeR]

How high do we have the volcano explosion at the end of Part 2 btw? I keep seeing a 10 year old 800 megaton calc for it that people unironically try to scale Kars to that calc stacks nukes and its hilarious

 

[Emerald]

How high do we have the volcano explosion at the end of Part 2 btw? I keep seeing a 10 year old 800 megaton calc for it that people unironically try to scale Kars to that calc stacks nukes and its hilarious

it is the 800 megaton calc. But no one scales to this feat other than the Aja amped to its absolute maximum

 

[Chariot190]

so in this scene dio didnt have his entire brain 100% anihilated to count as killing him?

His head actually exploded right off his body. And TW was flatout stated to be dead. Tbh he should be dead there, if it's anything, it's probably Joseph's life force roided out his vitality given that's an actual thing that jojo vampires can do. When they drain blood, theyre actually draning life energy, which is contained in the blood, to amp their own.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

His head actually exploded right off his body. And TW was flatout stated to be dead. Tbh he should be dead there, if it's anything, it's probably Joseph's life force roided out his vitality given that's an actual thing that jojo vampires can do. When they drain blood, theyre actually draning life energy, which is contained in the blood, to amp their own.

I mean taking the life force of Joseph of all people should let you live through some crazy stuff. That man has survived some crazy stuff.

 

[Demifiend]

"Time itself was getting faster and faster and outpacing human senses, approaching infinity itself, or at least as close to infinity as possible". So even Araki himself verbatim stated that Made in Heaven just accelerates time up to a REALLY fast point rather than infinity itself.

 

[FundamentalForce]

Hey everyone,

I just made the first, of many, CRTs on the cosmology of JJBA, ultimately concluding that the original universe is limited not only spatially, but temporally as well.

It's admittedly a LONG CRT, so I'll paste the TLDR here so you can get the gist.

• The original universe that Parts 1-6 take place in is not only limited spatially but temporarily as well.
• The spatial argument is backed up by Made In Heaven’s antics as well as the instantaneous activation speed of several time-based abilities in Jojo.
• The temporal argument is also backed up by Made In Heaven’s antics through the Oscillating Universe theory as well as the line of logic that follows.
• Finally, Irrelevant doesn’t mean Infinite, and other statements like “affects the whole world” only add to the arguments above.

If anyone wants to comment on it, I'd more than appreciate the traction. Be it negative or positive, I truly believe my CRT is robust enough, given my chosen evidence and logic, to pass.

 

[Demifiend]

Hey everyone,

I just made the first, of many, CRTs on the cosmology of JJBA, ultimately concluding that the original universe is limited not only spatially, but temporally as well.

It's admittedly a LONG CRT, so I'll paste the TLDR here so you can get the gist.

• The original universe that Parts 1-6 take place in is not only limited spatially but temporarily as well.
• The spatial argument is backed up by Made In Heaven’s antics as well as the instantaneous activation speed of several time-based abilities in Jojo.
• The temporal argument is also backed up by Made In Heaven’s antics through the Oscillating Universe theory as well as the line of logic that follows.
• Finally, Irrelevant doesn’t mean Infinite, and other statements like “affects the whole world” only add to the arguments above.

If anyone wants to comment on it, I'd more than appreciate the traction. Be it negative or positive, I truly believe my CRT is robust enough, given my chosen evidence and logic, to pass.

Actually, Made in Heaven supports the notion that time in the JoJo universe is infinite.

Before the end of the universe, Pucci actually reached infinite speed, meaning it actually took an infinite amount of time to reset the universe.

 

[Bastos]

Actually, Made in Heaven supports the notion that time in the JoJo universe is infinite.

Before the end of the universe, Pucci actually reached infinite speed, meaning it actually took an infinite amount of time to reset the universe.

Haven't read OP's CRT properly, but I don't think Pucci ever reached infinite speed, accelerating time to infinity can just be refering to accelerating time to the point of singularity, ie. infinitely dense point, which would also fit in the principle on which MIH works/operates - Big Crunch, one might be tempted to say Occam's, but there is more to it and we have literally seen the "Big Crunch" happen + it's basically how Pucci describes uni reset, minus the fate stuff ofcourse, needless to say, you don't need infinite time for that to happen. Even Araki himself said that Pucci doesn't reach infinite speed, rather just "close to it"/really high velocity, we know Araki is top tier yapper, but it still works as supporting evidence. The stand stat seems to be just metaphorical/not literal, however you wanna call it, pretty similair to B.I.G. actually, as in infinite acceleration. I forgot the exact mag reference where Araki made that statement, but I guess I can find it if needed. It's nowhere said that he does reach actual infinite speed, and nothing suggests that either, also worth mentioning the fact that you cannot raise a finite value to an infinite one, but hey, this is jojo's, so not really valid here ig.

 

[Chariot190]

Even Araki himself said that Pucci doesn't reach infinite speed, rather just "close to it"/really high velocity,

This, is actually incorrect, if youre talking about the interview, this line in particular
" or at least as close to infinity as possible."
Is never actually said, at all in the raw, in fact the actual line is wank central, it says the highest conceivable infinity.

It's nowhere said that he does reach actual infinite speed, and nothing suggests that either, also worth mentioning the fact that you cannot raise a finite value to an infinite one, but hey, this is jojo's, so not really valid here ig.

And this, is also wrong, numerous kanji and particle in the raws implicate an end result and goal.

I feel like this should be obvious based on just how they translated it too, they dont say "accelerate infinitely" or whatever, there's an end goal here, one he does reach, because, well, "reaching the very limits of infinity." is also a line that's been said but I suppose people just like to cherry pick

 

[Demifiend]

Haven't read OP's CRT properly, but I don't think Pucci ever reached infinite speed, accelerating time to infinity can just be refering to accelerating time to the point of singularity.

Except it's not, because this step explicity comes before the end of the universe and the singularity point, meaning that Pucci actually reached infinite speed prior that moment.

Even Araki himself said that Pucci doesn't reach infinite speed, rather just "close to it"/really high velocity, we know Araki is top tier yapper, but it still works as supporting evidence

Yesn't.
考えうる限りの無限 (kangaeuru kagiri no mugen) is translated as "the limit of conceivable infinity" or "the infinity that can be imagined or conceived."
It doesnt say "as close to possible", it just kinda says the first line, and then says it approaches the very limits of conceivable infinity. not even as a cap, but just as, what he do.
(Thanks to chariot190 for the translation)
It doesn't contradict the whole "infinite speed mih" argument, and even if that were the case, the manga takes precedence.

nothing suggests that either, also worth mentioning the fact that you cannot raise a finite value to an infinite one, but hey, this is jojo's, so not really valid here ig.

Non factor as this is fiction

 

[Chariot190]

The stand stat seems to be just metaphorical/not literal, however you wanna call it, pretty similair to B.I.G. actually, as in infinite acceleration

Also also, BIG's speed bullshit has been elaborated on in guides, at least a bit, it isnt accel, and hell, it isnt even copying, contrary to popular belief, he's just fundamentally that fast and as such, can instantly match soemthing's speed to overtake it, thing would be broken (moreso) if it wasn't an automatic type and thus followed primitive attack patterns and flags to attack.

 

[Chariot190]

ALSO ALSO ALSO.
No, the infinity used is denoted as being time, not an infinite mass.
Idk why this is even on the table as an option, even if it wasn't specified, you'd never read the lines to mean that given the context

 

[Bastos]

Except it's not, because this step explicity comes before the end of the universe and the singularity point, meaning that Pucci actually reached infinite speed prior that moment.

Yesn't.
考えうる限りの無限 (kangaeuru kagiri no mugen) is translated as "the limit of conceivable infinity" or "the infinity that can be imagined or conceived."
It doesnt say "as close to possible", it just kinda says the first line, and then says it approaches the very limits of conceivable infinity. not even as a cap, but just as, what he do.
(Thanks to chariot190 for the translation)
It doesn't contradict the whole "infinite speed mih" argument, and even if that were the case, the manga takes precedence.

Non factor as this is fiction

It says "accelerating time to infinity", implying it's in the process of happenning. My bad for the raw kanji, just slammed it into DeepL, doesn't change the point much. To the last point, yeah, kinda said that.

 

[Demifiend]

It says "accelerating time to infinity", implying it's in the process of happenning.

I don't get what are you arguing here

 

[Emerald]

which one is more accurate: The Viz translation or the fan translation of the manga?

 

[Demifiend]

which one is more accurate: The Viz translation or the fan translation of the manga?

Chariot translation

 

[Chariot190]

which one is more accurate: The Viz translation or the fan translation of the manga?

Case by case depending on the panel. Unironically. The fan translation >>>>>>>>>> the older viz ones though, like dont even touch those, actually dogshit, the newer ones not bad tho bar censorship like the Stand names but that's intentional obviously.
Like to be perfectly blunt, both are fine, you can read it, and understand what's going on, etc. The problem just comes in when you have powerscaling brainrot and the exact definition, meanings and wording matter. The goal for them isn't to get across every tiny detail, it's to convey the general message while sounding and flowing well in english. This doesnt matter 85% of the time, but like, 15% is still 15%.

This can lead to both wank, and downplay. Like, in Viz, they call the expanse of space infinite in the Kars goes to space scene, but the japanese never actually says infinite, so that's an additional word tossed in just to sound cool. Or **** ups like Surface being said to have a few meter range, yet, the raw actually says it's several tens of meters.

theyre fine to read, but they take liberties, so some stuff gets lost or even added in translation. sometimes, this stuff can affect profiles, abilities, stats, or context of stuff.

 

[Wardokman69]

Hold on, does "the infinity that can be imagined or conceived." means that Pucci's speed reaching far above baseline infinite or what?

 

[Chariot190]

Hold on, does "the infinity that can be imagined or conceived." means that Pucci's speed reaching far above baseline infinite or what?

it just says what it says dog, i doubt that's what he meant, and even if that IS what he meant, it wouldnt matter.
Like I say this often enough, but interviews, guides, etc, only really act as supplementary material, they def arent perfect and have a good share of blatant **** ups or outright wrong info, what happens and is said in the manga takes precedence and while Inf MIH I'll argue for, the manga also dont really implicate anything past that.

But, whatever, the word used is the word to signify basically, the height of what one can imagine, conceive.